Modern Drummer 08 2023

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CONTENTS
18 SHANNON LARKIN
Mountain vs. Machine
By Mark Griffith
30 JOE FARNSWORTH 42 LOUIE PALMER 52 LAURA DONELAN

Playing From the Past, and From London to L.A. with Fire! Talks about Music Pro Insurance
For the Future By Daniel Bedard By Mark Griffith
By Mark Griffith
Volume 47 • Number 8
Cover photo by Mike DeMillia
Contents photo by Jessi Lynn Brothers LESSONS
58 BASICS
Explosive CONFIDENCE Through Drumming
The Bass Drum Owners Manual
Applying the Moeller Technique
By Chris Lesso
to the Bass Drum
By Michael Packer
60 ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC

The Ankle Stroke
By Mike Packer
64 ROCK PERSPECTIVES
Binary Fills
By Bobby Rondinelli
66 JAZZ DRUMMERS WORKSHOP

Triplets with Flams
By Joe Morello
70 TEACHERS’ FORUM
Basic Chord Structure
By Ron Spagnardi
73 FUNK FUNDAMENTALS
Groove Concepts for Fusion-Funk Music
By Stephane Chamberland
EQUIPMENT
Corrine Luxon
10 NEW AND NOTABLE

New Pearl Drums, New ProMark Brushes,
Porter and Davies’ New Endorsers
14 PRODUCT CLOSE UP
Reviews of equipment from Latin
Percussion and Drum Workshop
DEPARTMENTS
4 EDITORS OVERVIEW 56 UP AND COMING
Embrace Change Danny Schreiber of Quor
By Mark Griffith By Mark Griffith
6 KIT OF THE MONTH 74 COLLECTORS CORNER

Diogo Viega finds that Patience Pays Off Hal Blaine’s early Rogers Set
By Donn Bennett
8 JAZZ INSIGHTS
Just Duet 76 OUT NOW
By Jake Reed with Peter Erskine Modern Drummer details new recordings
that feature drummers: Bill Stewart, Dom
12 INDUSTRY HAPPENINGS Palombi, Peter Erskine, Brian Blade, Ludwig
2023 Chicago Drum Show: The Drummer’s Afonso, John Favicchia, Jeff Ballard, David
Family Reunion Whitman, Sanah Kadoura, and a new book
By Bob Campbell and Brian Hill by Steve Smith and Manuel Valera.
78 EYE CANDY
Joe Morello’s Maple Ludwig’s
AN EDITOR’S OVERVIEW
Embrace Change Founder Ronald Spagnardi 1943–2003

Co-Founder Isabel Spagnardi
Publisher/CEO David Frangioni

I n proofing this month’s Modern
Drummer, I saw a theme. It was an
unconscious theme, but a theme none-
CFO Carolina Frangioni
CTO Jason Mehler
Senior Art Director Scott Bienstock
the-less. Changes. It’s not just a great
Content Director Mark Griffith
Yes song, a timeless David Bowie song,
Associate Editor Paolo Ragusa
or a classic Buddy Miles song. Nor is
Contributing Editor & Photographer Alex Kluft
it (only) the chords to a jazz standard
Digital Marketing Manager Ricardo Rodriguez
we’re learning… Change or changes
Worldwide Education Dom Famularo
are a fact!
Live Fom My Drum Room Podcast John DeChristopher
This month, all four drummers that
Photography & Archivist Felipe Laverde
are interviewed Shannon Larkin, Joe
Videographer Tyson Francion
Farnsworth, Louie Palmer, and Danny
Schreiber all talked a great deal about
change in their drumming careers and lives. Shannon Larkin’s
band is changing. Godsmack has recorded their last record
(but they will continue touring,) Shannon is starting a new
CEO President Publisher
side-project, and he is thriving in his sobriety. Jazz Drummer
Sajan Shiva Rick Catinella Alex Young
Joe Farnsworth has recently lost several important musical
mentors. Joe is embracing change in his music, his musical THE MD PRO PANEL/ADVISORY BOARD: Chris Adler, Carmine Appice, Kenny
direction, and his drumming. Louie Palmer moved from the Aronoff, Bill Bachman, Eddie Bayers, Gregg Bissonette, Jason Bittner, Bill
UK to the USA to advance his drumming career, talk about Bruford, Will Calhoun,Terri Lyne Carrington, Matt Chamberlain, Peter Erskine,
Dom Famularo, Daniel Glass, Alex González, Danny Gottlieb, Benny Greb, Matt
a change. Then he started an online drum school. Danny
Halpern, Horacio Hernandez, Gerald Heyward, Taku Hirano, Jonathan Joseph,
Schreiber of Quor talks about growing weary of the music Jim Keltner, Paul Leim, Peter Magadini, Pat Mastelotto, Rod Morgenstein,
business at one point during his career, and changing lanes to Andy Newmark, Carl Palmer, Stephen Perkins, Dafnis Prieto, Rich Redmond,
follow his path as a visual and tattoo artist. Even the interview Brian Reitzell, Jim Riley, Bobby Rondinelli, Antonio Sánchez, Cindy Blackman
with Laura Donelan about Music Pro insurance deals with the Santana, Chad Smith, Steve Smith, Todd Sucherman, Billy Ward, Kenny
Washington, Dave Weckl, Paul Wertico, Dennis Wolfe
changes going on in our world and environment (more floods,
wildfires, tornadoes, etc.) and the growing need for musicians CONTRIBUTING WRITERS: Donn Bennett, Clayton Cameron, Bob Campbell,
to insure our valuable equipment. No longer do we “only” have Peter Erskine, Dom Famularo, Bob Girouard, Mike Haid, Brian Hill, Daru Jones,
to worry about someone breaking into our car and stealing Nic Kubes, Chris Lesso, Peter Magadini, James Petercsak, Tony Verderosa
our cymbal bag. MODERN DRUMMER magazine (ISSN SUBSCRIPTION CORRESPONDENCE:
But changing isn’t always as “easy” as just “making a change.” 0194-4533) is published digitally Modern Drummer, 1279 W. Palmetto
It’s a difficult process, and the bigger the change, the more monthly and print bi-monthly by Park Rd, PO Box 276064, Boca Raton,
difficult it is. Identifying change is easy, making a change is a MODERN DRUMMER Publications, FL 33427. Change of address: Allow
challenge, accepting change is difficult, and embracing change Inc., 1279 W. Palmetto Park Rd PO at least six weeks for a change. Please
Box 276064 Boca Raton, FL 33427. provide both old and new address and
is hard. However, committing to, and living with a change, PERIODICALS MAIL POSTAGE paid at send to [email protected]
well… That can take a lifetime. But we all must make those Boca Raton, FL 33427 and at additional
decisions at some point in our lives. But when you do, lean on mailing offices. Copyright 2023 by POSTMASTER: Send address changes
the brotherhood of drumming to help guide you through life’s MODERN DRUMMER Publications, to Modern Drummer, 1279 W. Palmetto
Inc. All rights reserved. Reproduction Park Rd PO Box 276064 Boca Raton,
adjustments. All of your drumming peers, mentors, teachers, without the permission of the publisher FL 33427.
and heroes have been there. Because being a musician has is prohibited.
always been about accepting and making changes, big or Canadian Publications Mail Agreement
small. EDITORIAL/ADVERTISING/ No. 41480017 Return undeliverable
ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: Canadian addresses to: PO Box 875, Stn
MODERN DRUMMER Publications, 1279 A, Windsor ON N9A 6P2
Keep learning (and changing!) W. Palmetto Park Rd PO Box 276064
Boca Raton, FL 33427. MEMBER: National Association of Music
Mark Griffith Email: [email protected]. Merchants, Percussive Arts Society
Editor-in-Chief, Director of Content
MODERN DRUMMER welcomes
manuscripts and photos but cannot
assume responsibility for them.
Subscribe today at moderndrummer.com/subscribe

MODERN DRUMMER ONLINE: www.moderndrummer.com
Music Key
@ModernDrummer modern_drummer @modern_drummer
4 Modern Drummer August 2023

KIT OF THE MONTH
Patience Pays Off!
T his month’s Modern

Drummer Kit of the Month
comes from Diogo Veiga of
Sao Paulo, Brazil. His kit is a
Pearl Export kit with added 8”
and 10” toms. At first, Diogo
remembers that the Exports
were only available with 12”,
13”, and 16” toms. It took six
months for Diogo to finally get
the additional 8 and 10 toms!
For cymbals, Diogo uses a
nice mix of Zildjian, Sabian and
Wuhan. Depending on the gig
he might replace his K crashes
with A Custom’s. Diogo’s snares
are a Pearl Masters MCX (5.5 x
14) and a Tama 4 x 12.
We at Modern Drummer also like
the use of the deep 13” tom as a
floor tom. That’s a very creative
“solve,” to a few different
“problems.” Bonito Diogo!

JAZZ INSIGHTS
Just Duet
By Jake Reed with Peter Erskine
T he greatest joy in
education comes when
the student teaches the
Q: Is there anything more fun
than trading 4s with a fellow
drummer?
no context for musical ideas
to develop. Basically, all
those hip licks you’ve been
to create a musical moment
at the drums, instead of just
playing “drum-istic” ideas on
teacher. Jake Reed and Ryan A: Nope. practicing have no meaning the drums for drumming’s
Shaw (who is highlighted in As fun as it can be, if they aren’t presented sake.
Jake’s guest column) both sometimes it’s easy to let within a musical framework. Using this approach, my
studied with me at USC. a friendly conversation at However, if we approach drumming compadre (and
They not only do me and the the drums quickly escalate the situation from a jazz fellow USC Thornton School
Thornton School of Music into an athletic, chop-laden perspective, we can use a of Music alum) Ryan Shaw
proud, but they are paying shred-fest. When there’s no standard tune from the Great and I recorded an entire
it forward by spreading the thesis or subject established American Songbook as a album of jazz drumming
gospel as players, innovators, to build on, such as a form, vehicle for the conversation. duets called Drum and
and educators. Jake is a style, or basic groove, there’s This gives us the opportunity Drummer. “Stompin’ at the
brilliant drummer and all-
around musical force who
also happens to be a terrific
writer. He was my first choice
to pen a guest column on
the Jazz Insights pages of
Modern Drummer. I learned
some new things here, and
I promise that you will too.
Peter Erskine

Drums” was the first duet employ a little “call and sound of each drum and can paint a picture of the
we arranged based on response” to break up cymbal, but also through melody using the drumset as
the song “Stompin’ at the the melody between us. varying articulations, such our color palette. Pretty cool!
Savoy,” composed by Edgar Then, on the second half as dead sticking, stick-on- In terms of arrangement,
Sampson and made famous of the B section, we play stick (R/L) rimshots, short using a standard such as
by Benny Goodman. It’s in unison to provide some buzz strokes, and ruffs. “Stompin” allows us to
simple melody and standard textural contrast. In terms Additionally, we can create quickly establish a musical
AABA 32 bar form make it a of orchestration, we’re not the illusion of an ascending context to trade ideas, i.e.,
great candidate for a drum literally trying to play the melody by playing “up” there’s a constant 32 bar
duet. If you already know exact pitches of the tune, the drums: kick, floor tom, form and we’re playing with
the tune, this will be a fun which would be impossible, hi tom, snare, as well as a swing time feel. Once we
arrangement to work out since A) the drumset is a incorporating an array of play the melody, we trade
with a friend. If you don’t non-pitched instrument dynamics. For example, a fours for two choruses.
know the tune, go listen and B) as much as we wish crescendo on one drum can After trading, rather than
to Goodman’s recording it to be true, we’re not Ari bend our ear into thinking going back to the original
until you have the melody Hoenig! Our intent is to the “melody” is ascending, melody, we came up with
memorized, and then work it simply interpret the melodic and vice versa with a a unison “shout” chorus
out with a friend! contour of the song by decrescendo. By combining for the first two A sections
For the A sections, we integrating not only the basic all of these techniques, we that admittedly gets a little
“drum-y,” but is presented
with love in homage to some
of our heroes: Max Roach, Art
Blakey, and Shelly Manne.
From there we D.S. to the
bridge of the tune, play the
last A section, and then a
short Coda. Drum duets can
be fun and challenging to
work out but remember the
goal: play music together!
See this duet performance at

https://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=QhwqOohc7Nw
Check out Peter’s

drummer profile page,
and get a copy of
his Legends book at
moderndrummer.com
Modern Drummer August 2023 9

Pearl Welcomes Drummers to
High-End Reimagined
The emerging power drummer, gigging player, or
up-and-comer can expect a fresh new selection of
visuals for Pearl’s Decade Maple Series drums. Two
new satin lacquer finish options are being introduced
with the arrival of Blue Mirage, and Rose Mirage, for
2023.
Decade’s cross-laminated 6-ply all Maple shell
incorporates Pearl’s proprietary Superior Shell
Technology, resulting in a 5mm shell that projects
with authority and presents with prestige.
Decade Maple Series now delivers a total of eight
cultured lacquer finishes options for the player to
choose from. This, along with low-mass/low-contact
shell hardware, optimum shell performance, and the
rock-solid promise of Pearl’s Lifetime Warranty make
it an essential value for early-pro and gigging players.
For more information on Decade Maple Drums,
please visit www.pearldrum.com.
Sam Smith, The 1975, Interpol,

Black Crowes, Blur, and Placebo
Drummers Use Porter & Davies
The silent tactile monitors made by Porter & Davies (P&D)
are used around the globe by many top professional
drummers. Joining the growing P&D family are Jonathan
‘Ginger’ Hamilton (Sam Smith), George Daniel (The 1975),
Sam Fogarino (Interpol), Brian Griffin (Black Crowes), Dave
Rowntree (Blur), Matt Lunn (Placebo) and many more.
David Phillips
Long-time P&D user, Ginger Hamilton, is playing with

Sam Smith on one of the biggest global tours of 2023 with
shows spanning Europe, USA and the Far East. He says: ‘I’ve
been using P&D for over 10 years now and it has completely
elevated my gig experience. Coupled with my IEMs it adds so
much more detail in the low end which is a dream for every
drummer!’
For more information go to porteranddavies.co.uk.
ProMark Drumsticks Releases Innovative

New Nylon Brushes
D’Addario is proud to introduce new ProMark Nylon Brushes, the next
phase in drumstick innovation. Designed to deliver the control of a
stick and the tone of a brush, ProMark Nylon Brushes have a soft-touch
handle, complete with internal counterweights, which delivers the feel
of a Rebound drumstick. At the other end, the premium nylon bristles
are fused to ensure optimal playability and durability.
Players can find their ideal feel with two Nylon Brush options at the
ProMark 5B and 2B sizing. Light Nylon Brush 5B is ideal for delicate
playing and gentle attack, while the Heavy Nylon Brush 2B is the go-to
for increased volume and a pronounced attack. To learn more please
visit https://ddar.io/NylonBrushes_PR.

patent pending made in italy
INDUSTRY HAPPENINGS
2023 Chicago Drum Show: The Drummers Family Reunion!

Story by Bob Campbell and Brian Hill
Photos by Bob Campbell
T he Chicago Drum Show, now in its 32nd year, returned to the

Kane County Fairgrounds on May 20 & 21, 2023. The show
was a rousing success with an attendance of around 1500 visitors
welcome return to schedule at the Chicago Drum Show. Several
of the clinics were geared toward drum history and were quite
educational.
and over 180 booths. Attendees came from around the USA and Meet The Smith’s gathered of some the world’s most
most notably, from several different countries including Japan, innovative custom cymbal smith’s. Nine cymbal smiths were
the UK, Brazil, Canada, Mexico, and Australia. Both attendance on hand showing off their creations and doing individual
halls were nearly filled to capacity with vendors and two full days presentations in the clinic hall: Francisco Domene (Domene
of presenters and clinics. There was an amazing array of vintage, Cymbals), Mike Mongiello (Mongiello Cymbals), Matt Nolan (Matt
new, and custom drum and percussion offerings. Nolan Custom), Ray Byrne (Byrne Cymbals), Nick Margarite (Nicky
Moon Custom Cymbals), Timothy Roberts (Timothy Roberts
New and notable: Cymbals), Burke Daugherty (Burke’s Works), Paul Francis (Cymbal
• The new Craftsman/Royal Cymbals), and Dave Collingwood (Collingwood
Kompressor Cymbals). Pictured in the top photo of the next page in the
series of Sonor aformentioned order. Each of these talented craftsmen were
snare drums in interviewed by Steve Maxwell Jr. and they discussed their
brass, steel, and individual approaches to cymbal making: https://www.youtube.
aluminum shells, com/watch?v=AwIxSTIHpJA.
were literally a Ramy Antoun, President of A&F
great bang for Drums and renowned drummer (Seal,
the buck – quite Black Eyed Peas), began the day by
impressive! telling the story of creating the Big
Bertha II bass drum and wheeled
• A&F Featherweight drums platform for The University of Texas. Big
– incredibly light, compact, Bertha II is now the largest bass drum
and yet huge sounding in the world measuring 9.6 x 4.7 feet.
(aluminum snares and rack This was an amazing feat requiring two
toms weighing 3.6 - 4.5 years of metal testing to achieve the
lbs., floor toms 7.0 - 8.5 lbs. desired minimal weight and sturdiness.
and bass drums 10 - 14 The aluminum shell and associated engineering has now been
lbs.). applied in concept to the new A&F Featherweight series of
drums.
• Chicago Drum single-ply snares – inspired by vintage Gary Astridge, Ringo’s Beatle drums
Slingerland drum curator and drum historian, gave a
construction, wonderful overview of Ringo’s multiple
now offering Beatles-era drum kits over the years.
outstanding One of the early drum sets was a 1960
steambent Premier Mahogany Duroplastic kit. Gary
walnut, noted, “Ringo used this kit when he first
mahogany and joined The Beatles on August 18, 1962
cherry snare and played it until May 12, 1963, when
drums. he took possession of his 1963 Ludwig
drum kit.” Gary recently identified the
• Drum engravers on Australian drummer who purchased
the rise: gorgeous Ringo’s Premier kit while in London, England in June of that same
drum engraving by year. Gary verified the authenticity of the kit comparing historic
John Christensen (JC pictures of Ringo’s kit to photos provided by the Australian
Designs), some of which owner. Indeed, another great Beatle gear mystery solved by Gary.
were adorned with real Gary noted that Ringo’s Premier kit was subsequently sold by
diamonds! A fabulous the Australian owner and the whereabouts of the kit is currently
Mike Morgan periwinkle- unknown – but Gary is on the lookout! “
influenced engraving on Jeff Davenport, UK drummer
a Dunnett/Ludwig black and returning clinic artist, gave an
nickel over brass Chief snare drum attracted a lot of attention. informative drum tuning workshop
entitled, “The art of speed-tuning a
• Wood and Weather vintage drums had an incredibly rare Ludwig drum kit.” Jeff described drum tuning as
& Ludwig Abalone Pearl drum kit, circa 1935 with original bass a “journey of variables”. The variables
drumhead artwork. discussed were the type of drumhead,
the drum being worked on, the room
Clinics: where you are listening to the drum,
Following a COVID-induced hiatus, drum clinics made their the intended style of music, the type

of drumstick, the height/velocity with which the drum will be been called the “mad scientist”. Scott’s
hit, and the key used to tension the drumhead. In each case, Jeff drum clinic was introduced by Dom
provided useful examples how changes in each of these variables Famularo, who described him as, “not
could affect both the tuning process and outcome. an out-of-the-box drummer because
Eric Binder (Eric Binder trio, author, educator) provided both there is no box. This is what allows
a historical and applied appreciation our art form to move forward.” Scott
of vintage cymbals. He played several began by thanked Dom for paving
older custom cymbals with his kit in the way and being so inspiring. He
a jazz context, most notably some went on to share examples about
K. Istanbul Zildjian’s. He shared his drumming, rudiments, technicality,
experiences with the types of sounds groove, colors and textures, and
and nuances produced by the hands of improvisation. Scott performed an
great drummers like Tony Williams and incredible drum solo which demonstrated his unique perspective
Elvin Jones. At the end of the clinic, Eric on drums and drumming, and his technical prowess.
was kind enough to allow the audience Paul Wertico (Paul Wertico Trio, Pat Metheny, Paul Winter, and
to try each of the vintage cymbals he educator at Roosevelt University) gave the final clinic featured.
had played. Paul started off by talking about
Gerry Brown, renowned drummer with Stevie Wonder, Diana keeping in shape and eating healthy.
Ross, George Benson, Lionel Ritchie, When Paul saw Gerry Brown, he said,
and Chick Corea, shared lessons “Hey, we’re both still here and doing
learned from decades of playing it (drumming).” He continued, “This
with great artists. He began by instrument can keep you healthy. This is
saying, “Drumming is not a sprint. a physical instrument. The more relaxed
It’s a marathon. Just take your time. you play; it just becomes this flow.”
Whatever kind of music it is, swing, Paul described his overall approach
country, or other, the groove don’t lie. to drumming: “I’ve never thought
Stay in that groove lane. You and the about playing a certain rudiment while
bass player are the foundation.” Gerry playing. It’s all about phrasing and
played some iconic Stevie Wonder talking. Luckily, I have really good time. That’s why I got the gig
tunes including “Higher Ground”, with Metheny, I never got off of the click. There’s a couple of ways
“Signed, Sealed, Delivered, I’m Yours”, and “Another Star” on a to play, inorganic and organic. Neither is better than the other,
great sounding set of GEWA electronic drums. Then he played a it just depends on the type of music you’re playing. Inorganic
cover of Michael Jackson’s “Shake Your Body” as a tribute to the playing is where you’re sub-dividing everything; sixteenth notes,
great drummer Ed Greene. triplets and so on. When I’m playing organically, I’m thinking point
Bobby “T” Torello (Bobby T Band, Thunderhead, Grace Slick, ‘A’ to point ‘B’, just getting from here to there. As long as I can do
Black Oak Arkansas, Johnny Winter, that, I can talk to the instrument.” Paul proceeded to perform
Michael Bolton) gave a heartfelt several classic Metheny tunes with his characteristic groove,
clinic. In addition to rocking many fluidity, and style. It was an incredibly inspiring clinic which ended
great cuts from his previous body of with a standing ovation.
work (on a thunderous set of WFL III Overall, it was a tremendous show. Rob Cook, the show’s
drums), Bobby passionately shared producer said, “I think this show, more than any previous shows,
his life lessons from many trials and really lived up to the handle ‘The Drummers Family Reunion.’ So
tribulations along the way. In 1978, many old and new friends were there. At least a dozen exhibitors
Bobby had realized his dream and was have been attending this show for 30+ years! Dom Famularo
touring and recording with Johnny helped with emceeing several of the clinics and announcing
Winter. His career took off but as raffle winners. It was fun to watch people light up when they
Bobby described it, “drugs and alcohol realized Dom was there. He brings electricity to any room full of
started taking over my life.” With the drummers!” There were tons of raffle prizes, exhibits, percussive
support of his wife, Bobby successfully went through rehab and gear to buy (and sell), friends to meet and greet, and a good time
has been 15 years clean and sober. He now has own band, Bobby to be had for all. If you’ve never made it to the Chicago Drum
T. and the Namedroppers, and remains “hell bent in what I do.” Show, you really owe it to yourself to make the trip! The 33rd
Bobby’s longevity and perseverance in the music business is Chicago Drum Show is already scheduled for May 18-19, 2024, at
indeed a testament to his dedication and love for music. the Kane County Fairgrounds in St. Charles, IL.
Scott Pellegrom (SP3, Remedy, Nocturnal Lights) is a
technically proficient and creative drummer/clinician and has

PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
DW’s Alex Gonzalez Collectors Series Icon Snare Drum

Iconic drummer, Iconic Snare Drum
By Brian Hil
D rum Workshop sent Modern Drummer over one of their newest Collector Series Icon snare drums
for a look-see. The Alex Gonzalez DW Collector’s Series ICON snare drum was created as a tribute
to Latin Pop icons Mana and their legendary drummer Alex Gonzalez. After joining Mana at the age
of 15, Alex’s backbeat has helped power the band to the incredible international success of a dozen
Grammy awards and over 40 million albums sold.
The specs are pretty straight forward and in line with DW’s usual quality in top-shelf drums. Alex’s
Icon snare features an 11-ply HVLT North American Hard Maple shell with a Birdseye maple outer
veneer that is dyed gray and features laser-cut wood inlays of the Mana logo, Alex’s signature and
iconic rose logo in red, along with his portrait. The intricate inlays are crafted from dyed pear wood,
koto, and tulip woods. No reinforcement rings are necessary nor does DW have any company badges
on the exterior of the shell.
This limited-edition 6.5” X 14” snare is also fitted with premium black nickel DW hardware. It
features a MAG Throw-off, five position (5P) butt plate, True-Hoops, True-Pitch tuning rods, DW’s
Turret style lugs, and DW heads by Remo on the top and bottom round out the specs.
The sound of this drum really speaks. It responded well to all tunings with a lot of control. Alex’s

Icon drum is sensitive at low dynamics and really barked at higher playing levels. Carlos Garza
It really cuts through and I loved the rim shots and cross-sticks! The five position
snare throw-off gives great “on-the-fly” snare tension adjustments for those quick
changes that need to happen fast.
The DW Alex Gonzalez Icon snare is a great drum for that Modern Pop sound that
fills arenas and those inherently loud environments. This drum will not get lost in a
big mix. It performed great for me in a wide variety of settings and situations.
This beautiful and artful drum would be great for anyone who happens to be a
big fan of Mana and Alex Gonzalez or any serious collector of high quality snare
drums. In researching this drum on-line I found a lot of info dedicated to this drum
and Alex. You can hear examples of the sound of the drum with Alex playing his
newest favorite snare. DW will only be producing 250 of these remarkable snare
drums with only 125 drums meant for the USA market. Each drum includes a deluxe
DW carrying case with a numbered and signed certificate of authenticity from John
Good.
However, this is not an inexpensive instrument. I found it on-line for around
$1799.00 as of this writing. The proceeds from this drum will help to support one of
Alex’s favorite charities. The DW quality and over-all sound speaks for itself! Check it
out at dwdrums.com.

PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
Latin Percussion Single Brass Timbales

Versatility and Choices
By Brian Hill
L atin Percussion (LP) has been around

for decades. I am literally still using LP
cowbells I bought back in the 1970’s. (No,
the brass shells and chrome plated hoops,
tuning and mounting hardware. I think
they have a bit of a vintage look with the
to ½” for virtually unlimited placement in
any drum or percussion set-up. But, if the
practicality of using a mounting arm isn’t
I’m not that old, I just started young!) LP is chrome and brass comingling together. there, a snare stand will always do the
not only known for making outstanding I also noticed that they had some real trick.
cowbells but they have led the way in weight to them. These drums have the The sound is very strong, as would be
hand and ethnic percussion instruments same features as LP’s Prestige Timbales, expected. A brass shell is a bit warmer
as well as congas, bongo drums, and (yes) but are offered as singles. and darker than standard steel drums, but
timbales. A new, hefty counter hoop design is with a very bright tone. Cascara rhythms
As part of the “LP Your Kit” line of supporting a new “top-side” tuning on the side of the shell are cutting and
percussion instruments, LP sent Modern system that allows the player to tune dry. Whether as a single or a pair, these
Drummer a pair of their new, single- the drum from the top side (instead of timbale drums offer a great voicing
mount brass timbales. This was quite a from underneath the rim). The patented option that delivers a high quality,
fun review for me as I have been an “LP top-tuning systems also keeps the tuning musical element to your set-up.
Guy” for a long time and have spent a rod below the hoop so as to not interfere The LP Single Mount Brass Timbales
lot time playing their timbales and most with playing. Each drum comes with a are just another great example of what
other things LP. So let’s see what could very cool tuning key that not only fits the LP does: lead the way in percussion
possibly different in an already impressive timbale but also has a secondary key built instruments! I found the timbales online
line of timbales. in to tune standard drum tuning rods. for around $369.99 each. Check’em out at
LP sent over a two 6.5” deep, brass The other major point of these drums lpmusic.com.
timbales that come in 13” and 14” is that the mounting bracket fits any
diameters. They looked pretty cool with standard mounting arm ranging from 3/8”

Latin Percussion Rhythm Rods
New Tools for the Toolbox
By Brian Hill
T he other half of my
LP box had a nice
assortment of Rhythm
Rods. LP sent over
three different pairs:
Synthetic Lightweight
and Heavyweight
models, and the
Natural Rhythm Rods. I
tried these alternative
implements on just
about everything I
could hit. While they
were good on regular
drums, I thought they
did extremely well
on Cajons, Congas,
Cymbals, Gongs, and
other percussion
instruments. If you’ve
used other, thinner
varieties of “multi-
rods” before, these
will be a heavier,
thicker version that
will bring additional
sonic timbres and
possibilities to the
table.
The Natural set was
made of an organic
material the resembled
a very thin bamboo
material and measured
13” in length by an
inch diameter. The
Synthetic versions
were made of a
premium-grade
polymer material and As far as which Rhythm Rod is the best one for you, that
measured 14” in length with the Lightweight model at 7/8” depends on you and what you’re doing. For me, my favorite was
diameter and the Heavyweight model at 1 1/8” diameter. These the Adjustable Core, Lightweight Synthetic Rod model. All of the
rods also have an exclusive reinforced core for superior balance, Rhythm Rods brought out new possibilities in sonic sounds and
stability, and playability. had very comfortable rubber grips that made them fun to use
Both the Light and Heavyweight models come in two and explore different sounds.
versions: The “straight” version and the Adjustable Core version. The LP Rhythm Rods are another great example of what
With the Adjustable Core Rhythm Rods you get all of the LP does: lead the way in percussion instruments! I found the
advantages of the “straight” version, but you also get the option Rhythm Rods online at $29.99 each. I can’t think that anyone
of the Adjustable Core. This feature gives you the ability to push would go wrong choosing any of the Rhythm Rods. We’ve been
an embedded synthetic rod (or core) forward, out the end of the trusting them for decades to provide us with great gear that
Rhythm Rod about an inch beyond the end of the implement. not only works, but stands the test of time! Check’em out at
(Much like a retractable wire brush.) This will give you greater lpmusic.com.
articulation in sound from whatever you’re hitting. I like options!

Godsmack’s
Mountain vs. Machine

By Mark Griffith
A s you walk in drummer Shannon Larkin’s

house there are no pictures of himself, or Gold
or Platinum records on the wall. The only thing
that would clue you into the fact that you are in
a drummer’s home is the cool furniture made of
drums by placing plate glass on the top of old
drums and sets from past tours. He is a humble
guy, and a great drummer. And he has one more
musical mountain to climb.
MD: After 20 years in Godsmack, numerous next 20 years we remained friends. I was
tours, and seven records, let’s first look back actually his first call for Godsmack back in
at your career leading up to Godsmack. the day when they were starting to sell out
I know you have been in a few other clubs and sell a bunch of CD’s. Then all the
successful bands along the way that have major labels started sniffing around and
been signed to major labels and had done Sully called me again, but I was in California
some heavy touring. How did you get into by then and I had already joined the band
the band? Amen. I’d spent a couple of years with
SL: Sully, our fearless leader, main Amen in the clubs in LA and I’m a very loyal
Alex Solca
songwriter, and an amazing drummer, and person, and we had just signed a deal with
I met in 1987. I was playing with Wrathchild Ross Robinson and Roadrunner Records, so
Mike DeMillia
America, and Sully had a band called I stayed with Amen. Then Godsmack sold 5
Lex Luthor. They opened for us in North million CD’s and Amen sold 5000. I thought
Carolina, and we were just hanging out all I had missed my opportunity for success. I
night, we exchanged numbers and for the did a couple more years with Amen, made

some great records, did some tours and so my plan was to have a rock’n’roll hair that’s our job. In the past, I would also
it was all wonderful. I had already been salon on Melrose in Hollywood. I had the speak up with ideas, in that regard I’m
touring with Wrathchild since I was 15 whole thing really planned out. I even very confident, so that would sometimes
and playing in bars since I was 12, and called Sharon Osbourne, and Ozzy said create some drama for us. It was never
had played on a lot of records that I’m he’d let me cut his hair. It was a real plan, anything that made me want to quit
very proud of, I’d done some amazing and literally two weeks after I quit Amen, the band, but it did make recording
shows, I got to play for Black Sabbath Sully called and said their drummer something that I really had to focus on.
and basically all my musical dreams had wasn’t working out. By this point they I had to crush my ego and play for the
come true; except for “actual success” had sold millions of records. I thought song. When you have someone else
in the music business, which to me just I might have one more mountain to telling you what to play and your ego
means making enough money to never climb, so I joined Godsmack, and here is telling you that people will think that
need another job. we are 20 years later. you wrote a drum part that you didn’t
This is a very hard business though, MD: The new record Lighting Up the Sky and you lose sight of the important part,
and in 2002 I thought I was going to is absolutely ripping! the song. That is just ego. It can go either
quit, I was really done. I was gonna keep SL: Thank you! Fittingly, it’s my favorite way. People could think that I created
on playing drums for sessions because one of all. It was the easiest one we’ve a radical drum fill that Sully actually
I love drumming. I would never stop ever done, it all just fell together, of wrote, or vice-versa. But on this last one,
playing the drums, but I was done being course we had the extra time because of everything felt right with no drama at
in “the machine” of this business, I felt the pandemic, as far as actual recording all. It’s just like any band that’s been
like I had done everything. I climbed all goes it was a drama free recording around this long with any amount of
the mountains that I had ever dreamed process. success and making records for decades.
of as a child, except being a “rock star,” MD: What was some of the traditional There’s all kinds of ups and downs, there
and at that point with a baby girl at drama that was eliminated? were certain records where our guitar
home, I hadn’t achieved any kind of SL: We just had more time to make it. player and Sully weren’t even speaking.
financial savings or financial stability, The drama in the studio was usually Being the same four guys in a band for
so I enrolled into a cosmetology school. because Sully has a very distinct vision over 20 years is a roller coaster ride, it’s
My mom is a hairdresser and I watched about everything that is Godsmack. Sully much easier said than done. But it has its
her as I grew up. She had a shop in the is also a great drummer, so there would rewards. I must tell you, I’m 56 and I’ve
basement of our house where people be struggles between what parts I would waited all my life to be on the cover of
would come and get their hair cut; she come up with and what parts he had Modern Drummer. This is an important
made people happy and got paid for it. heard in his head when he wrote a song. moment for me.
It was the same as what I was doing as Of course, as the drummer, I believe MD: You’ve been through the machine
an entertainer. I always liked cutting hair, that you have to defer to the songwriter, of the music business. You’ve bounced
Mike DeMillia

from several successful bands that
have recorded for major labels, done
major tours while going from band to
band to band. You’re (what I call) a lifer.
That’s means achieving longevity. In
this business, longevity is the biggest
compliment anybody can give or get.
SL: I swear to you, I always say that
as well. People mention the gold and
platinum records, all the awards and
nominations, even the cover Modern
Drummer… But the badge that I wear
proudly, is the badge of longevity!
MD: The of bands that you have been in
is amazing: Wrathchild America, Amen,
Ugly Kid Joe, and Godsmack. You have
done sessions and records with Glenn
Tipton from Judas Priest, Glassjaw, Stone
Sour, even Vanilla Ice. Let’s talk about
how your long drumming career has
evolved.
SL: In the mid 70s, my family was raised
with the radio. It was always on. After
dinner my dad would (famously) drag
us all downstairs and play records and
dance around for an hour or so. My dad
was insistent that we were not going
Mike DeMillia
to sit around and watch TV all night.

In 1975 or 76 I heard Kiss’ “Calling Dr.
Love” on the radio and it called out to
me. I’d never heard anything quite like
it. I asked my mom to buy me a K-Tel
compilation record of the modern hits
that included Kiss “Calling Dr. Love.” But
(thankfully,) it had other bands on it as I’m going to be a drummer, I want to Appice Realistic Double Bass Drum book.
well. I remember “The Funky Worm” by be John Bonham. Then I went out and Later, in the 80s I heard Motörhead No
the Ohio Players and all these different bought Kiss, Aerosmith, AC / DC, Ted Sleep ‘til Hammersmith, I had never heard
songs that were happening on radio Nugent, and other heavy 70s records. double bass used in that way. Then
at the time. It was a diverse time for I never thought about anything else there was the explosion of Lars Ulrich
popular music. But I got the record for to do with my life. I started practicing and Dave Lombardo. I grew up in the
“Calling Dr. Love” by Kiss. I would just eight hours a day, I was practicing every DC-Baltimore area, so couple all of that
play that over and over in my room. My minute from when I got home from with the really fast punk rock like Minor
sister finally came in and said if you like school until dinner, and after dinner I’d Threat and Bad Brains that were around
this song so much, the band has a whole go back out to the garage and practice DC at the time, those bands were life
changing. Metallica was creating a new
genre called thrash metal. It’s no doubt
The badge that I wear proudly, that my young man’s brain was about
speed, speed, speed!!! It was always
is the badge of longevity! about how fast can one play? That’s one
of the many things that helped me and
guitarist Terry Carter create Wrathchild.
record out, but in the meantime listen some more. I became obsessed with We started Wrathchild when I was 10
to this. She gave me Rush’s Hemispheres drums and heavier music. My parents and Terry was 12. We spent six years
on red vinyl, and it changed my life. had a good and eclectic musical taste. touring across the country in a van. We
It didn’t call me to the drums, but it Early on, I heard (and loved) Ringo, Keith had our own truck, lights, and PA. Back
introduced the creativity of making Moon, Ginger Baker, Mitch Mitchell, in the day you had to start that way. You
music, the importance of the drums to and Charlie Watts. Those were the crazy would play the clubs and hone your
the music, and the stories that Neil Peart drummers that I wanted to be. I heard craft while you were becoming a better
told with his lyrics— I became a huge Carmine Appice on the Rod Stewart musician. You learned what humility
fan of that record. Then she gave me album doing those quads between his was, and if you were selling out the
Led Zeppelin II, and the drums called out hands and feet, so I added a second bass clubs, the labels would start coming
to me. I remember specifically thinking drum, and I got the famous Carmine around.

We signed to Atlantic when I was And it didn’t matter what was going on, where it seems that you have to sound
20, we were Wrathchild before we they were always about the music. With like everybody else to get signed and
became Wrathchild America, because them everything was mayhem and chaos, everything on the radio sounds the same.
there was a band in England already their music was super exciting, but there “The machine” has taken over. Back in
called Wrathchild. Wrathchild America was a sense of danger there. They were the day, if you were different that’s when
went from 1988 to 94. We put out a everything that I dreamed of when I was you would get interest from labels and
couple records on Atlantic, toured with idolizing crazy dudes like Keith Moon. the business. Nowadays it’s all about you
Testament, Pantera, and played shows But those were different times, and know how many “likes” you have.
with Metallica, Slayer, and many more things have changed in good ways, and After 12 years in Wrathchild, I met
cool bands. After the deal was done with somehow, I’m still alive. But those guys Whitfield Crane of Ugly Kid Joe, they
Atlantic, we put out two more records on just brought an energy and put a fire in had just come off a big hit record. I was
an independent label under the name everybody’s ass! Pantera didn’t sound like coming from a punk and thrash metal
Souls at Zero, but it was the same four a typical thrash metal band. I’m happy kind of world and by joining Ugly Kid Joe
guys. We were playing heavy music. When that they’re out there again. They couldn’t I really learned how to crush the ego part
we looked at what was going on around have chosen two better guys than Zakk of my drumming and play for the song.
us and what our music was like, we Wylde and Charlie Benante for this Dave Fortman was the guitarist in Ugly,
realized that we didn’t need to change, so reunion. Charlie is a legend that (pretty and he went on to produce Godsmack,
we just changed our name Evanescence, and Slipknot.
and continued on. We had He was the guitar player
already been together 12 for my six years and three
years, we were like brothers, records with Ugly Kid Joe.
and we really believed in Dave taught me so much
our band and in ourselves. about songwriting and
The name change wasn’t a melody. He taught me that
negative thing we thought if no one is going to remember
we gotta be an underground your drum fills, they’re going
man we gotta be an to remember the chorus.
underground band. But it As a drummer, I learned a
turns out that it just didn’t lot about playing within
happen for Souls at Zero, to the music because I joined
this day I think that first Souls a band that was already
at Zero (released in 1993) successful in the commercial
record is great. We opened rock atmosphere, that was a
for Pantera for three months whole new world for me.
in America, that was our last When I joined Ugly,
run as Wrathchild. I’d known they already had all their
Dimebag and Vince (Vinnie writers and singers, but
Paul) since way before both I’ve always written lyrics
of our bands were signed. (probably from the Neal Peart
When Wrathchild would influence.) I still have all of
go through the Dallas-Fort my old lyric notebooks that
Worth area those guys I have written, going back
Jessi Lynn Brothers
would always come out and to when I was a kid. That is

hear us, we ended up being probably why I have always
friends. There were times I had side projects. Even when
would go and stay at their I was in Wrathchild, Ugly Kid
house. They had a studio Joe, Amen, and today with
down in the basement and Godsmack, I have always had
me and Dime would just side projects. Many people
go down there and make are surprised to learn that
strange music. most of those bands have
MD: So many musicians today talk about much) invented the blast beat. If you can been in a very different musical style than
how nice Dime and Vinnie Paul were, and invent something in this business that’s my main bands.
how they really helped a lot of young incredible. MD: What is it about your drumming and
bands. People always bag on Lars. Until you your style as a musician that brought you
SL: They really had that sense of have lived a minute in Lars’ shoes and to all of these bands?
wonderment and awe. Those feelings create what he has– I just tell them all SL: I don’t want to sound like I’m
were all around them. It didn’t matter to shut up. He’s not just a drummer in bragging about anything, so I’m going to
if they were playing a club, an arena, or the band, he’s something more. A lot of tell it as I remember it, this is how I see it
a stadium. Those feelings were always those ideas came from his vision and at this very moment.
there. They had a creative energy on their him wanting to sound different. Lars MD: That’s fine, I’m asking you to talk
instruments, they were just unstoppable. is an original. He has won in a world about yourself which (I know) is not real

Mike DeMillia
Larkin’s 2023 Godsmack Kit
Yamaha Drums Godsmack records and tours.

Sabian Cymbals For this tour we wanted to use clear acrylic shells with
Vic Firth Sticks: American Custom Rock blue LED lights inside, but Yamaha doesn’t make clear acrylic
Remo Heads: Coated Ambassadors top, Clear Ambassadors shells. So the great Greg Crane at Yamaha found a company
on bottom. to make us two clear acrylic shelled kits in 12, 14, 16, 18,
24 and 22 kick drums and a few Octobans. The 14” tom is a
I’ve been playing Yamaha Drums for over 20 years now. shorter 9x14 so it can be positioned correctly with my big
Godsmack’s deal with Yamaha is that for each new tour, bass drum. Our FOH man Scott loves the acrylic drums, and I
which comes for us every four years, they give Sully and love the way they sound.
me a new kit. He plays drums during every show. We like My cymbals are Sabian, I have been with them for over
our kits to match, and match the artwork of the record, 20 years too. They are a super innovative company. My main
so we have gotten custom paint jobs and stuff like that in crashes are an 18” AA Medium Crash, 19” AA Rock Crash, and
the past. For our Legends Rise tour we had Yamaha Oak a 20” Medium or Rock Crash, my main ride is a 22”, I have a
Absolute Customs that were wrapped in chrome, and they 20” and a 22” China type, a splash, and an icebell.
sounded amazing. That was the best bass drum I’ve ever I have also always suffered from cramping on stage, I
played; I will use that 24” Oak Absolute Custom kick on every always stretch and warm up, but I still have had cramping
record that I make for the rest of my life. That kick, the Roy issues. Now I drink a supplement called L M Ent to help with
Haynes hammered copper snare, or the Mike Bordin copper muscle cramping. Recently, I talked to a doctor that thinks
snare; I use them on everything. We call the Roy Haynes that cramping stems from anxiety and stress. So now before
drum “Copperhead.” I’ll put both of them up against a 1977 shows I do some mental stretching, meditation, and positive
Black Beauty and the copper Yamaha’s win every time. The thought reinforcement to help with the cramping problems,
producers love those drums. I’ve used them for the last four and I haven’t had a muscle cramp since.

“comfortable.” things that will help them survive. The very grateful. Sometimes it gets
SL: When I started playing in clubs, I first things I always say is wear earplugs misconstrued, I want to pick my words
was 12. My parents had to bring me and that nobody wants an asshole in very carefully because I don’t want
to the clubs because in West Virginia their band. Stay humble because it to offend any great bands like Judas
you had to be 16, if you were under takes as much luck as it takes talent to Priest and Cheap Trick, I have nothing
the age of 16 your parents would make it in this business, that’s just the but respect for those bands; and I’m
have to chaperone you. We did four way it is. I have heard bands with the speaking for myself not Godsmack…
one-hour sets a night. I was like a rock best songs that never got heard. Less But we all started really young, and we
star because I was just a little kid, and than 1% of bands even get their demo have been doing this for years. We are
guitarist Terry Carter was 15 and a real heard, let alone get a deal. Less than “lifers” as you said, we’re all still friends.
prodigy (he still is.) that even get two years in the business For me, there was always a mountain
Up until that point most of my once they get a deal. Less than 1% of to climb, my mountain was to make
favorite drummers didn’t really have that group makes a charting record. it and be a rock star. Godsmack lives
much showmanship. But I was a kid, And even less than that earn any sort in a musical style called “active rock.”
and my teenage ego was trying to get Active rock is comprised of about 8
attention. I wanted to be Angus Young million listeners, Godsmack has been
on the drums. As “fate” would have it, I
was playing basketball and I broke my
I started on top of the “active rock” world for
20 years, we ruled the roost in our
collarbone. They put me in a hard cast
that went around my entire torso, but
alternating my little world. When I joined the band
the next three records were number
I could still move my wrists. I had my one on Billboard, we climbed that
left wrist free, but my arm was locked hands on the mountain. Historically, after most
in a cast. The doctor said I could still bands reach their mid 50s and get into
play drums, so I raised my snare super
high and lowered my hi-hat. I started
snare while I was their 60s and 70s, you go from selling
out arenas to playing the State Fair. I
playing with my right arm underneath
my left arm and my left arm over my
playing the hi- mean absolutely no disrespect, but I
don’t believe Godsmack could get any
right. After six weeks of playing like bigger. But the anxiety and pressure
that, it became natural. That’s how I hat or the crash- of making records, touring, and the
developed my style of showmanship. pressure of being in this machine
I started alternating my hands on the
snare while I was playing the hi-hat
ride, and people becomes like Groundhog Day. You
make another record, and you have
or the crash-ride, and people started
making up names (like the “swim started making up to go tour to promote it. You always
have a product to sell. You have to be
move”) for what I was doing. I called it grateful for everything, and we are. You
“slink back.” At that point I had never
seen anybody else do that, now every
names (like the can’t take anything for granted. The
band had a sit down and just talked
metal drummer does it. Today, I hope
a bunch of dudes from back in the day
“swim move”) for about it. Sully asked, “What if this was
our last record?” Playing live is really
would admit that they were influenced
not by my playing per se, but by my what I was doing. where we get our reward and that’s
where you make your money. Then
style of playing and showmanship. The we realized that we have a two-hour
guys who kept developing this style
ended up being some of my favorite
I called it “slink set, and we have ten or twelve #1
hits, we actually realized that our sets
drummers, and exciting players! There
were a bunch of drummers in those
back.” aren’t even long enough to play all of
our top five singles. Then we started
times of hard rock and heavy metal thinking, what if we could jump out of
bands that were not just playing the the machine now and not have to sell
drums but emoting the drums with a anything because we’re all financially
very strong style of showmanship, and of Gold or Platinum records. This is stable. We can actually play a greatest
I feel like I had a hand in that and was a the hardest business in the world. You hits set right now. We’ve had a long
stylistic influence. gotta have thick skin, you gotta be and great relationship with rock
MD: Since you hit the scene when you able to take criticism really well, and radio. So do we want to keep making
were very young what would you tell stay off the hard drugs. And remember, records knowing it can’t really go up
young drummers today about hitting everybody that you meet on the way from here? We don’t want to alienate
the scene when they are very young? up you’re gonna meet on the way our fanbase and do a blues record, a
SL: I can’t really talk much about down. piano record, or a covers record. We
helping them in in in the modern MD: To fast forward to today, this new figured the best thing we could do for
music landscape because I came up Godsmack record is just killer! But is ourselves physically and mentally is
in a whole different era, I don’t even this actually the last Godsmack record? not break up and not do the cash cow
understand the music business today. SL: Yes, it is. It’s been over 20 years, final tour and charge $400 a ticket. We
I usually just try to tell younger guys we’ve had success, and we’re figured that we would just announce

that we’ll stop making records. We’re not to step away after three years together up being a blessing because we were
gonna go away, we’ll still be out there adds to the longevity of any band. So we forced to stay home for two years rather
playing a set of our hits. The labels have took 2020 off and we thought (like the than go on tour. Never since the age of
been fantastic, again we’re not trying to rest of the world) that everything would 15 has a year gone by when I didn’t do
disrespect anybody, but this will allow us be back and great in 2021, well it wasn’t. a single tour or show. I thought that I
to get out of the machine and away from We had built a new studio in Florida, and might go crazy, but I found a happiness
the constant record cycles and be able we started writing in 2021. Then Sully within that. I still hold that happiness,
to actually say “no” if we want to. That’s needed a break. When he came back and perhaps I wouldn’t have found it
my take on it. at the end of 2021, we scrapped all but without being forced into a different life.
MD: When you guys started the last two of the songs. Sully had all this “new I’ve been sober for seven years now,
record, had you already decided that this ammo” (songs) from a recent break-up. and I was a little scared of lockdown.
was going to be the last record? That’s the thing about my friend Sully, he It was a big deal for me to learn that I
SL: This whole new record/last record gets his heart broken and it really puts can indeed be very happy inside with
conversation is weird because of the him in a dark hole. But he always comes me, and not have to go out on tour.
pandemic. In 2018, we put out When out the other side with a bunch of great After two decades of putting Godsmack
Legends Rise and it was our most tunes. You feel bad for your brother, but before family and friends, I realized that
successful record ever. There were four you know the band is gonna get some with a fan base of the best fans in the
number one hits on When Legends Rise. killer songs. That’s why I said how easy world that have been loyal throughout
Since I’ve joined the band, we’ve had this record was to make. It’s because our our career, we didn’t have anything more
a number one hit off each record, but main songwriter had a bunch of great to prove, and we’ve done our best.
we never had four number one’s. So we songs and great ideas, and the record Over the years we have done everything
toured from 2018 until the fall of 2020. just wrote itself. When we got into 2022 from hard rock and metal to blues rock.
We had all this cool stuff planned, we and the world still wasn’t back, we had Along the way people have said we were
were going to do some shows with a window of opportunity and plenty of selling out, but it all becomes part of the
Metallica, we had some festivals booked, time to write and record this new record, journey, part of the machine. It’s nice to
and then the pandemic hit. and for once we were able to choose have some control amidst the chaos. We
Each record comes with a four-year when we wanted to drop the record. have gotten 20 years older, and we have
cycle. We record for a year, support it for The second time Sully had come down tried to do something a little different
two years, and then take a year off. We to record is when he came out and said, with each record and give some diversity
are blessed and lucky to be able to afford “What if this what if this was our final to our set because again— We’re the
to always take that year off. To be able record?” The curse of lockdown ended ones on stage playing these songs.
Mike DeMillia

There is nostalgia after so long. Are we a a record. That’s the fun part. But the MD: Therefore, why spend a year making
nostalgia act? We meet folks constantly business and the pressure… Nowadays a record that people are going to stream
that say, “You guys got me through high you look on social media and people say and listen to on YouTube for free? I get it.
school!” Carrie Underwood came to our the most horrible things about your new SL: I have other mountains to climb. I am
show in Nashville and told us that we record. Now we have the opportunity to 56, I have creative ideas that I want to
were her favorite band in high school! not put ourselves through it anymore, explore with my drumming.
That makes me feel good. Perhaps a bit and we can still have the reward of MD: So, what’s the next mountain?
old, but good. doing the shows. SL: I’m not quitting, I’m going to
MD: For some reason “nostalgia” has MD: Is the fact that all record sales are continue to play drums, and apply more
become a derogatory term. at an all-time low become a factor? You focus on my side band Spirit Wheel with
SL: That means that you have been put your heart and soul into making a Terry Carter. Everything has really come
around for enough time to have a lot new record, and then a week later it’s on full circle. Terry and I started out on that
of hits. And that means that you have YouTube and everybody can listen to it great Wrathchild journey together for
achieved career longevity, and isn’t that for free. Or you can stream, and the band 15 or 16 years. Then I went out west
what it’s all about? hardly sees any income from streaming. and did Amen, Ugly Kid Joe, and now
MD: I agree. Did those facts enter into the whole Godsmack. I didn’t see Terry for many
SL: Getting back to climbing mountains, decision? years. In the meantime, I’ve always had
I feel like I have gotten to the top of SL: Well, we are old school, and we’ve side projects. When I was out west, I had
the mountain. As long as we weren’t watched each record in succession a punk band, then while I had Amen I
breaking up and we are still going out sell less and less over the years as the had a rockabilly band on the side, when
on stage in front of fans that love our internet and streaming have become I joined Godsmack I had my band called
music, that’s always been the reward. prominent. Even after downloading got Another Animal. Around 10 years ago
Now we just don’t have the pressure of fixed, sales kept declining because of I started getting back into the Blues. I
having to make hit records. streaming. It’s not about the rewards and was thinking strategically. Playing in a
MD: Do you guys enjoy the record accolades or gold records on the wall. Blues band never has this big intent of
making experience? The cool part is as record sales declined, selling out stadiums. The intent is to get
SL: We really enjoy the creative part of we didn’t see our shows drawing any as many people as you can in the room,
four guys being in a room and watching less people. We’re still playing the same have them hang on every note, hear the
a song be created. It’s like seeing a baby venues that we have played for 20 years, source of every hit, and feel the space
being born, then you nurture it and a and we’re still getting the same, or between the notes. It’s very distinct and
week later it’s grown up and it goes on better, attendance numbers. there’s a mastery to that. My idea was to
Paris Visone

Paris Visone
fuse 60s and 70s psychedelic music and it’s not commercial and it’s very musician setting up a second bass drum off to the
Blues, to combine Pink Floyd with B.B. oriented. I am trying not to let it become side. It’s a whole different thing.
King and have David Bowie as a singer. “Frank Zappa, musicians only music” I MD: Where do your blues tastes lie? The
That whole soundscape came into my grew up on radio, so our music is full blues is a big canvas.
head, so I started writing new songs, of hooks. I’m super excited about it. SL: Johnny Winter is still my favorite!
and called the band the Apocalypse My kit is also completely different from When Terry and I toured as Wrathchild I’d
Blues Revue. I had an old Blues singer my Godsmack kit, it has a bunch of be listening to punk rock and the early
named Ray, my bassist Brian, and Tony percussion and even some electronics thrash bands like Lars and Metallica;
Rombola from Godsmack was playing scattered throughout. I’ve also started While Terry really schooled me on the
guitar. We made two records for Mascot blues by playing me B.B. King, Stevie
and did some touring with Kenny Wayne Ray, Robert Johnson, Son House, Walter
Sheppard. Then Tony split, and I needed
another guitarist. Then we realized Trout, Clapton, Howlin Wolf, lots of old
and new guys. Terry made me feel it. To
I had remembered that my old friend me, blues and jazz is right there with
Terry Carter had moved to Florida, and I that we have a punk rock. Those styles were always
gave him a call. Now, everything is more below the modern cultural radar. My
laid back and it’s all about the music,
my new band is my Spirit Wheel and the
two-hour set, and favorite drummer right now is Mark
Guiliana, he’s a jazz cat from New
entire intent is different. It’s all about
why Terry and I started to play music in we have ten or York that made my favorite record of
all time, David Bowie’s Black Star. His
the first place. I started my career with playing (especially on that record,) has
this guy as a young kid and now after
all these years have passed, suddenly
twelve #1 hits, we completely changed my playing. His
feeling for drums and music and the
I’m playing music with this same dude.
Shane Hall is the singer in Spirit Wheel,
actually realized way Bowie was mixing jazz and rock is
the most original thing that I have ever
he has been my drum tech for over
25 years, and he’s still my drum tech that our sets aren’t heard.
There are a few living drummers
on tour with me now, but we are both who I put on a pedestal. Mark Guiliana,
looking forward to the whole dynamic
of being band mates. It’s a Cinderella
even long enough Chad Smith, who (in my opinion) is the
greatest living rock drummer, and Zak
story, Shane has never sung in a band
other than with me, and our musical
to play all of our Starkey. Of course, Zak plays for The
Who, but I saw him in Oasis probably
chemistry is obvious. Spirit Wheel has 20 years ago. He made their best record
recorded a record, it’s very blues based, top ﬁve singles. called Don’t Believe the Truth. The way he

me on to bands like Budgie,
Riot, Y&T, Saxon, and Accept
as well. We didn’t understand
different musical cliques and
the different social scenes
that were happening. We just
loved music!
MD: No one ever talks about
Adam and the Ants. They had
two drummers and played
all of that tribal sounding
stuff. You had mentioned
your many years of sobriety,
congrats on that!
SL: Thanks. I’m celebrating
over seven years now. I
started drinking when I was
12. I was enabled by playing
music in clubs. Then the 80s
were a pretty crazy time for
partying, and I was a part of
that. But I’m still here living in
harmony with myself. For me,
drinking became that thing
that you dreaded. I woke
up in the morning and was
putting booze in my coffee. I
was hiding it from the band
and my family because I was
drinking all day. I became
that guy. I went through a
divorce. I hit bottom when
I was leaving our rehearsal
place after I drank a bottle
of Jack Daniels. I blacked
out at 2:30 in the morning
and my 1000-pound Harley
motorcycle fell on top of me
in the parking lot, thank God
it happened before I could
go out on the road and kill
Mike DeMillia
somebody. I came out of

the blackout laying in the
parking lot with my bike on
my ankle, I called a buddy
and woke him up and he
came and lifted the bike off
plays is just so distinct and English. in love with The Stray Cats, to this day
of me. That made me take a serious look
The first arena show I ever saw was Slim Jim Phantom is one of my favorite
at my life and future.
Judas Priest with Iron Maiden opening, drummers of all time, then I discovered
I was never into therapy, and I never
that was another life changer. Priest was The Police and Stewart Copeland, and
believed in shrinks. I always looked at
touring on Point of Entry and Maiden Devo who played all these cool and
rock stars in rehab as such a cliché. I
was playing Killers, so Maiden still had different patterns. I really fell in love
was struggling to quit drinking, but the
Clive Burr. He was influential to me with Tommy Aldridge’s playing on the
problem was that I’m very disciplined. I
because I’d gotten so into the thrash Pat Travers Live record, and Michael
have very strong willpower, so I would
metal and Dave Lombardo that most of Bland’s playing on Prince’s Diamonds
never be drunk before a show, and
my six to eight hours a day of practicing and Pearls. I didn’t know it at the time,
I’ve never been so drunk or high that
was sitting and reading books with but my musical taste was very eclectic,
I couldn’t perform or play. I’ve made a
ankle weights on playing double bass and I attribute that to the blessing of
lot of mistakes in life… just not when I’m
patterns. That’s how I got up to speed for being from West Virginia. Growing up in
playing drums. So I didn’t see it as ruining
the Slayer and Metallica style of thrash. West Virginia me and my friends liked
my life.
Then in the mid-80s, I was glued to the Adam and the Ants, Slayer, Black Flag,
But after the bike thing, I called
MTV like the rest of the country. I fell and Boston. I had other friends turning

management and said I don’t know what that, and Sully lost a couple close friends because I feel like there’s ears out there
to do but I’m going to die if I don’t do to addiction, Godsmack started The like mine that would really love and
something. They contacted Music Cares Scars Foundation, anyone can go to enjoy this band, I do want to play this
which is an organization that found a Godsmack.com if they are reading this for some proper labels, but with the
place for me called Recovery Unplugged. and have any addiction issues. The Scars attitude of curiosity over expectation,
They have a unique program that uses Foundation is a worldwide nonprofit and knowing that I can release it myself.
music as the focus to help addicts and that has all these people and therapists The music is deep and spiritual, and
alcoholics find yourself in the stillness to talk with you to about addiction the band feels fresh and makes you feel
within you. I think the music aspect of issues. young again. It makes me feel like there’s
recovery allowed me to open my mind I am well aware of the “tradition” of another mountain to climb.
to therapy and try to figure out why sex, drugs, and rock and roll. I’ve had My next mountain could have been
I’m like this. It worked for me. I spent my problems, so I’m not going to get painting, it could have been writing
30 days in there, and I’ve never drank all holier than thou. But I will say to fiction, I have multiple horror novels
again. However, being in this business everyone out there to stay off of hard that are already written. But for now,
every concert is like a party that we’re drugs, know what you are in for when the main thing that I want to do is Spirit
hosting. My biggest fear was how I was you go down that path, be aware of Wheel recordings and tours. We’re a
going to be happy and be a rock star if yourself, and recognize the problems unique band, kind of like Gov’t Mule.
I can’t party with people? What I didn’t when they arise. They are one of my favorite bands, but
realize and what spiritualism helped MD: Unfortunately, the list of musicians most folks have never heard of them.
Mike DeMillia
me realize is that happiness is within with addiction issues is very long and Kenny Wayne Sheppard is one of my
us, and we all have it. Everything else unfortunately the list doesn’t look like modern idols. We toured with him
is secondary to happiness. As soon as it’s going to end anytime soon. What’s with Apocalypse Blues. He had one
I got out of rehab I purposely went to coming up for Godsmack and your new bus pulling a trailer. The whole band
bars and started watching the bands band Spirit Wheel? and crew travelled like a family. That’s
and sitting by people at the bar drinking SL: Godsmack is on a six week break what I’m trying to replicate, no drama,
shots, all while NOT drinking. I threw then we’re gonna tour all the way up no pressure from the business and the
myself right into it, because I knew that until December. My plan is to shop this music industry, and we can dictate when
the only way to survive in this business Spirit Wheel record that we’ve already and where we perform. I don’t really
was to be around drinking and drugs recorded. And the good news is I don’t care if people love it or they hate it, but
and be happy around it. You just make care about sales. I can put it out myself, I do want to have fun and age gracefully
a conscious decision and realize that nowadays you can self-release and just in this business. I still love having the
you like to be happy, and life is way hire a promotion company. I don’t really sweaty ass, and the ugly hands of a
better without something, whether it’s need the algorithm of “the machine,” drummer!
a woman or drugs or alcohol. You just and I’m not worried about making my
have to take the blinders off, and you’ll mortgage payment or whatever—I just
be able to do it. I really found happiness; don’t care anymore about all that stuff. Check out Shannon’s
drummer profile page,
therapy works! After I went through But I do want Spirit Wheel to be heard at moderndrummer.com
Playing from the Past, and for the Future
By Mark Griffith
I tell drum students this all of the time. If you become

a music major in college, pay as much attention to
your peers as you do to your teachers. You can learn
as much (and maybe more) from your fellow students
as you do in class. Sometimes teachers have to be
diplomatic, but your peers tell you the truth. I know
this because it happened to me. I went to William
Paterson College and the first two drummers that
I heard were (fellow students) Bill Stewart and Joe
Farnsworth. I thought, if this is what the students
sounded like, (they both sounded amazing,) I’m in
trouble. Then “Farns” set me straight.
For the last 37 years Joe Farnsworth has been
a mainstay on the New York Jazz and worldwide
drumming scene. He is carrying the torch of the New
York City tradition of jazz drumming. Joe has always
been a “traditionalist,” but now he is getting into new
musical territory, powering up as a bandleader, and
William Brown
accepting his role as jazz elder statesman. He was

(a little) rough around the edges in school, but he
taught me some essential lessons. Now I am proud
to have him share some important lessons with the
readers of Modern Drummer.

would help us except Dan Israel. Time to Swing. It was a tribute to all kinds
JF: When I first got to New York, I was I put a lot of energy and focus through of great players. I focused on musicians
all about Max, Philly Joe, and all those Harold, Billy Higgins, Pharoah Sanders, from Philadelphia, Chicago, Memphis,
guys. Then I heard Ralph Peterson play and Cedar Walton, but Harold and I had and I just kept going with players from
at my brother John’s senior recital at a group together and I started booking Latin America, Canada, Russia, and the
Rutgers, Ralph blew my mind. Then him. When Harold died, I was playing the rest of Europe. I’ve made three A Time to
I saw Marvin “Smitty” Smith with the Vanguard with guitarist Peter Bernstein. Swing videos with hundreds of people.
Jazztet and I got a little nervous. After Pete always had his own sound, his During my tribute to Jimmy Cobb, Billy
seeing Tain with Wynton and The Black own tunes, his own style. He was free to Hart talked about a drum battle he did
Codes band, I knew the NY jazz scene be himself. That is when my direction with Philly Joe Jones and Al Foster.
was rough. These guys were playing hit me. I had spent a lot of time telling MD: That’s on a Philly Joe Jones record
all this complicated stuff between the (or trying to tell) Max Roach’s and Billy called Philly Joe Jones Quintet Plus Two
breaks, there were fills everywhere, and Higgins’ story. When I went to William Drums Night at Storyville that I have.
everyone was swinging, especially Tain! Paterson, the two “schools” I really JF: Yup. Apparently, Papa Joe Jones
This was a different sort of drumming wanted to go to were the schools of was the MC that night, and Max Roach
from what I had heard before. Everyone Cedar Walton and the school of George was there too. Billy Hart told me that
seemed like they were going that way. I Coleman. It just so happened that Billy after they all started playing Philly Joe
thought that I was in real trouble. Higgins played with both of them. I Jones really started kicking some butt.
MD: I remember that feeling. wanted to understand what Billy played Apparently, Billy and Al were going
JF: Then I happened into a club and and feel what that was, and I did that at it pretty hard, so Philly Joe turned
saw Louis Hayes playing a brush solo. through working with both Cedar and it up a notch. I hope I’m paraphrasing
It was like a gift from God. That was an Billy correctly. After it was over, Max
epiphany and it told me to just keep Roach was talking on the mic while the
going, you’re okay.
MD: You have had a busy 30 years since
When Billy Higgins musicians were getting up to leave the
stage, and Max reached back with his
right hand and started tapping on Billy
school, working as a sideman with Benny
Golson, Cedar Walton, McCoy Tyner, Gary would walk to the Hart’s small tom, as if to say to everyone,
Bartz, Horace Silver, Wynton Marsalis, “You need to sit and listen to me.” Billy
Pharoah Sanders, George Coleman, Eric
Alexander, Harold Mabern, Diana Krall,
drums with that and Al talked that day about developing
their own sounds, and Al said “If, in five
and more… But you have also released
some wonderful records as a leader. I
smile, the whole years I don’t develop my own sound,
I’m going to quit.” After Al said what he
love how your records are designed to
have you framing one of your legendary room would light up, said to me, and Billy told me that story,
I realized that it was time to figure out
musical heroes. Those records have who I am as a musician.
featured, Cedar Walton, Kenny Barron, even before he got MD: We’re both in our 50s, and I think
we can agree that it takes a long time
and Wynton Marsalis. But your new
record is called In What Direction are You
Headed? Now you are framing guitarist
to the drums. to develop a sound and an approach. It
doesn’t happen overnight.
Kurt Rosenwinkel. It seems like things JF: Absolutely. I remember when we
are changing. Can you explain what that went to see Roy Haynes and Max Roach
title means? What direction you are now George. it was so overwhelming, they were a
heading? When Covid hit, everything slowed power source that we all just gravitated
JF: I learned at the feet of Harold Mabern down and I started thinking about to. We wanted to be Roy Haynes and
and George Coleman. Those guys can some of the things that musicians have Max Roach.
make any tune sound special. When I said to me through the years. I used to MD: So how is your new direction
play with them, I want to play music that do drum battles at Smoke with Kenny manifesting itself?
the musicians want to play, I want to Washington. Al Foster came and sat right JF: It comes from figuring out who you
feed off of their wisdom. The freer they next to my hi-hats once, he was looking are and who you want to be as a person
are, the freer I am. right at me. As he was leaving, he said, first. I think back to the lessons and the
The beginnings of the In What “Just be true to yourself,” and then he conversations I had with Art Taylor and
Direction are You Headed started when left. I wondered what that meant? Alan Dawson. They talked about being
Billy Higgins died. I followed Billy around Then I realized— I could tell you what themselves as human beings. Art Taylor
everywhere. In fact, you and I watched Max Roach is, and I can tell you what was Art Taylor long before he got on
him together at Bradley’s a few times. Billy Higgins is, but what the hell is Joe the drums. When he got on the drums,
His passing was the beginning of me Farnsworth? I realized that I had spent that was just an extension of himself.
feeling like my leader was no longer so much time trying to play with certain He was the way he was long before he
around. That left a big void and had a people, that I hadn’t learned who I was. played on Giant Steps and played in the
huge effect on me. When pianist Harold During Covid I did tribute videos Red Garland Trio. So I started working on
Mabern died, that left a huge void in my to Billy Higgins, Harold Mabern, Roy myself, what I wanted to do, and how I
life. I had spent years playing with him Haynes, Jimmy Cobb, and Max Roach. wanted to present myself on and off the
and booking gigs for us because nobody Then I started doing a series called A stage.

I got to play with McCoy Tyner a lot in meandering, no going off course. After about swing, there’s a certain bounce,
the last couple years of his life. I watched listening to Cecil Bridgewater, I thanked but for whatever reason that sense of
him on and off the stage, sitting in the him because his story was so inspiring bounce has started to feel dated. Are
dressing room, and I watched him speak. and on point. He said it’s easy to do you feeling that same thing?
I thought about all the things he saw when you are speaking in the first person JF: For sure. When we were growing
in his life. I started to try to get myself and voicing your own feelings. up, we wanted to play with Benny
together. I came to understand that the I was always trying to play the perfect Golson, Johnny Griffin, Clifford Jordan,
drums are just an extension of myself. Max Roach solo, but I wasn’t playing or Tommy Flanagan. These were the
Instead of just trying to become a “better “me,” I was thinking I’m gonna execute gigs that were out there, and if you
drummer,” I needed to figure out who this Max Roach thing… I wasn’t playing could play, you could get on those gigs.
I was. A.T. was always talking about in the first person. And if I did that, Those were big time names, but that’s
community, I wanted to be more like there’s no way it could be “perfect.” not there anymore. With the younger
that. MD: Being perfect is a whole lot of generation there is a lot more influx of
MD: The more that I interview the great pressure to put on yourself. different types of music from musicians
musicians, the more I realize that (most JF: But if you are playing a gig with like Sullivan Fortner, Immanuel Wilkins,
of the time) the personality and the Pharoah Sanders, George Coleman, or Robert Glasper, Kurt Rosenwinkel, and
person are inseparable
from the musician and
the playing. Knowing
you in school, I can see
the evolution.
JF: I’m glad, it took me
a while to realize that
it’s about progress not
perfection.
MD: So how is this
manifesting itself
drum wise?
JF: I used to wonder
how Billy Higgins and
Elvin Jones were able
to smile like that when
they played? How
did those guys do it?
I asked Billy why he
smiled so much. He
said because he was
grateful to be free
Jimmy and Dena Katz

of some bad habits
since the 60’s. He was
grateful to live and
play happy, joyous,
and free!
I would see pictures
of myself playing with
this grumpy face, the
“I’m so serious, I’m a
bad cat face.” So I started practicing and Cedar Walton and they play a beautiful Brad Meldau. They borrow from every
learning how to smile when I played. and perfect solo, then it’s your turn to style of music and make it their own.
When Billy Higgins would walk to the do the same thing; you think OK I gotta Look at what Big Chief Donald Harrison
drums with that smile, the whole room be perfect too! But Pharoah Sanders isn’t is doing, he’s combining all kinds of
would light up, even before he got to thinking that he’s gotta play through music and developing young talent. He’s
the drums. I started thinking, I’m grateful Coltrane, he’s playing himself. Ironically, a real example to us all.
for my health, I’m grateful for my kids, it was after hearing (trumpeter) Cecil Playing with guitarist Kurt
and I’m grateful to be here playing with Bridgewater talk about Max that I Rosenwinkel at the Vanguard was a real
these people. realized that I just gotta start playing eye opener. I had never heard him play;
When I was making the video about myself and speaking/playing in the first I had never even met him. That wasn’t
Max Roach, trumpeter Cecil Bridgewater person. where my focus was. Then I played with
sent me a 30-minute video about his MD: I recently interviewed Terri Lyne him, he showed me some things that I
relationship with Max. It was a perfectly Carrington, and she remarked about didn’t know existed. It was freeing. Kurt’s
told story from beginning to end. how the jazz language and the sense music took the whole group to a fourth
There was no waffling, there was no of rhythm has changed. When we talk dimension. I also just recently played

with Brad Meldau at the Vanguard, and hear Jimmy Cobb playing “My Shining 2, 3, 4, every beat has a certain length.
it was a similar thing. These guys are so Hour” with the same people you are But Billy’s beat that was just a little bit
strong at telling their own stories, they playing with the next day… what’s the longer, and it never wavered. When you
obviously have their jazz influences, but difference? We’re forced to do something hear a great basketball player like Magic
they’re doing it today with their own to try and raise the level, but they set Johnson talk, they talk about how the
voice. That’s what I want to do, that’s the tone. Now we’re in that pursuit game slows down and they can see
what’s happening now, you gotta change. of greatness, that’s only the way I can everything in slow motion, that’s how
I’ve spent 37 years developing as a describe it. To be able to do that and have those drummers played.
sideman. A sideman means wanting to that feeling come off of the bandstand, MD: You just brought up a great subject.
make another person (the bandleader) that’s what I’m after! Let’s talk about different ride cymbal
sound good. You earn your power MD: We should set the tone. beats. Describe A.T.’s ride cymbal beat to
through that; you draw your power JF: When we heard Jimmy Cobb playing me?
through the person you’re playing with. with the Nat Adderley group (with Larry JF: When I heard A.T.’s Delight I got
As a young musician, you set your sights Willis, Walter Booker, and either Sonny goosebumps! There was something
on who you want to play with, then you Fortune or Vince Herring,) at Sweet Basil, about the record with Gene Ammons and
end up playing with them and your job the whole place was rockin’! The rhythm A.T. that I liked above most everything
is to make them sound good. But now would smack you upside the head two else. On Jackie McClean Jackie’s Bag, we
in my 50s, as a band leader, I should be blocks away. You could feel the beat, and all know Philly Joe was the greatest (he’s
that power. That is a huge change for me, once you got in the room, Jimmy Cobb on side one,) but if you listen to side
but that’s what I choose to do. You must two of Jackie’s Bag, A.T. steals the show.
provide the responsibility, the energy, When I went to William Paterson, my first
and you need to dare to be great. That’s
what Art Taylor, Elvin Jones, Art Blakey,
These guys are so year of lessons weren’t so good. I didn’t
even know if A.T. was still around, but I
and McCoy Tyner did, it was all right there
for us to see. But that’s a big change. strong at telling their remember thinking, I’ve got to find A.T.
I found a musician’s union book and I
My new direction is stepping up, being
myself, and being a leader. To me, a lot of own stories, they just I just went right down the list and
called people’s homes. I called Horace
this is just the process of growing up. Silver, Walter Bishop, Walter Davis, a lot of
Back to your question, playing
swinging time? Yes, it’s not that there’s
obviously have their people just people hung up on me. (Your
favorite drummer,) Al Foster was very
as much as it used to be, I’m not saying
it’s better or worse, that doesn’t matter
jazz influences, but kind to me, and he led me to A.T. He lived
up on Sugar Hill in Harlem.
to me. But when music does swing, the
people love it, people still respond to they’re doing it today MD: Al turned me onto A.T. on Kenny
Dorham’s Inta Somethin’, Al loves A.T.
that. I just played “I’m Old Fashioned” JF: And A.T. really loved JC Heard and his
with Emmet Cohen and people were just
tapping their feet and smiling. People still
with their own voice. ride cymbal beat.
MD: You can hear the similarities
love to swing and feel good.
MD: I’ve said this a lot about Dave Weckl.
That’s what I want between them on Gene Ammons record
Boss Tenor with A.T. and Gene Ammons’
We were all fortunate to see him grow
up behind the drums, but sometimes to do, that’s what’s Nice an’ Cool with JC Heard.
JF: Philly Joe (kind of ) showed A.T. how
that can be a painful thing to watch and to incorporate the skip beat like on a
do. Watching someone develop can be happening now, you shuffle. When A.T. was riding, it seemed
awkward. You made your first record like his head was riding with the cymbal,
called You Leave Me Breathless with the
legendary Junior Cook when you were
gotta change. he’d be playing quarter notes with his
head bobbing with the beat, that was
22, and we have seen you grow up stunning. A.T. had a serious “stroke” on
behind the drums too, what has that the ride cymbal. Then when he’d go to
been like? had the whole room shaking. That’s the the left cymbal, the transition from the
JF: You and I were fortunate to be alive unbelievable level that we are chasing. right to the left would make him put
and around in the 80s, we are young That was one of the best groups that I his right shoulder up, then he’d take his
enough to have seen THE cats, they were ever saw live. left hand off the snare drum and just
all still here. We tried to take everything Another thing about growing up in start cattin’. People would be screaming
we could from that experience, every that time, and understanding music because it felt so good.
night we tried to bring those experiences better, is just how wide their beat was, When A.T. talked about playing with
to our musical personalities. and seeing how relaxed they were. I saw Bird, he called it playing in “the big room.”
It’s amazing, today you can watch Roy Billy Higgins play so many times. I asked I don’t know what that really meant, but
Haynes play “Star Eyes” and people will Buster Williams what made Billy’s ride there were only certain people that got
be in tears. Then you can play “Star Eyes” cymbal beat so great, he said it was that in the big room. I think it was when your
the next night with the same guys, and Billy’s beat was just wider. I never really playing got to be where you wanted it to
everyone’s talking and not listening. We thought of his playing as being wide be. Then you set your sights on the next
are all still trying to figure that out. To but look back and listen. If I’m playing 1, level and the only way to get there was to

get that wide beat. A.T. would talk about me that patient endurance attains all bad cat, he always talked about other
a wide beat with bassist Tommy Potter, things. He was such a spiritual man. I’m musicians, that’s the big thing I learned
making it so Bird could do all that stuff in from Worcester MA, and I have never from Max. He knew that everybody called
between the beats while Art’s right hand had a chance to play in or around my him “The King,” but when he talked, it
was maintaining a swing and his left hand hometown. But they just called me to was never about him. He talked about
was playing all those comping rhythms headline the North Hampton Jazz Festival other drummers and musicians with such
that he learned from Bud Powell. To me, for Max Roach’s birthday celebration. That reverence.
A.T. was the king, I loved him more than came out of the blue and shocked me. I used to go see Max Roach at the
anyone. That’s what McCoy was talking about. Village Gate. I loved to see how he walked
MD: Compare Jimmy Cobb’s ride cymbal I’ve waited 45 years to get a gig in my on the stage. A lot of people just walked
beat to A.T.’s? hometown, patient endurance does attain up to the drums and sat or flopped down.
JF: I was always practicing along to Jimmy all things. Max took his time, looked at the whole
Cobb on Miles’ Live at the Blackhawk in I first met Max at a masterclass at room, and stood above the drums for a
high school. I thought, because of the Amherst College in 1980. I walked in and minute, like it was like a sacred place. He
sound of the record, that Jimmy was he was playing the piano beautifully. He would stand there and take it all in before
holding his stick tight or maybe pushing asked me what I was doing there. I said I sitting down at the drums. That was the
the stick into the cymbal.
MD: Dead-stroking with the
right hand?
JF: Yeah, I was young and
I developed a callus on
my thumb from that. The
first time I saw him play
was with the Nat Adderley
group and I walked up to
Jimmy Cobb (like an idiot)
and said, “Hello Mr. Cobb,
look this callus on my
thumb, I’m trying to play
just like you,” he just walked
right by me and said,
“You’re doing it wrong baby!”
But back to your
question, that’s an
interesting comparison.
They were both relaxed
and both got a massive
quarter note feel on the
ride. They both swung at
the highest level. But if I
William Brown
had to compare the two—It

seemed like A.T. had a little
more of a lope in his ride
and a little more skip in this
playing, that skip is what he
learned from Philly Joe.
When you hear A.T., Billy
Higgins, or Roy Haynes you can pinpoint want to learn how to play the drums from greatest thing I’ve ever seen.
something in their playing that you need Max Roach. He asked me what I knew After first meeting him, I was blessed
to work on. But when you hear Jimmy about Billy Strayhorn? I said, “I don’t know to know him, he knew my family, so I
Cobb, you can’t pinpoint what you can anything about Billy Strayhorn,” and he was able to talk to him. The other thing I
do to get that, it’s “un-gettable.” That’s a replied, “Then you don’t know anything learned from him was that as drummers
magical feeling! about the drums or Max Roach.” One unfortunately we don’t have to take
MD: I love your “new approach,” and your of the biggest lessons he talked about the instrument out of our mouths and
new record. But you did a record back in was to sit and listen. I used to love to breathe like a singer or a horn player. Max
2004 called My Heroes. On that record you listen to the way he spoke. He never said, said that you learned how to stop and
ran down your list of drumming heroes “Papa Jo Jones.” He would refer to him breathe from having conversations. When
and you dedicated a tune to each one. as Jonathan Livingston Jones, with so you play it’s call and response, someone
Let’s go down that list and give me a much admiration. He had so much love plays something, and you play something
lesson from each drummer. Max Roach? for other drummers and musicians. One that responds to that.
JF: It’s Max 100 birthday this year. When of the biggest lessons in my life came MD: Playing music is a conversation. How
I was playing with McCoy Tyner, he told from Max. Although he knew he was a about Art Blakey?

JF: With “Blues March” and “Moanin’” I the greatest thing I’ve ever heard. Max with Eric Gravatt and I loved it. Then I
actually think people take Art Blakey and Billy sat and talked about learning bought Coltrane In Tokyo with Elvin.
for granted. The sound he created on to phrase by listening to Charlie Parker. MD: That’s a great journey.
the drum set was truly amazing. Listen Max talked about Bird telling him to JF: I feel bad that kids can’t go into
to Lee Morgan Tom Cat or Blakey’s make the beat wider. The brotherhood a record store and look through the
A Jazz Message with Sonny Stitt and and love they had, that’s what I want to records and read liner notes. Those
McCoy Tyner. His do, be myself and play were the best days. But I heard Tony
sound was remarkable. what’s happening and I found out that he studied with
Art’s dynamics were
what dynamics are A sideman means today.
One time when
Alan and that Alan was still alive. My
father is a trumpeter and a high school
supposed to be. His I was playing with band director, and he would drive
highs were as high and wanting to make George Coleman me out to Alan’s every two weeks for
loud as can be, and his and Harold Mabern, two years. I recently went back to his
lows were as quiet as
could be. By listening
another person George asked me if I
wanted some butter
house. John Ramsay lives there now,
and I wouldn’t have recognized it. You
to the records, you’d
think (because his (the bandleader) with those rolls?
Everybody started
used to go to the side door and go
downstairs to the basement. Then Alan
sound was so big) that
he was really smacking sound good. laughing because I
didn’t know what that
would come out of the bathroom with
lotion on his hands. He was giving 10
the drums. There was meant. Later I learned lessons a day seven days a week, and
all this energy coming that George didn’t like I can still smell his hand cream. You’d
from the drums, the when people rolled at sit knee to knee with the pad between
sound was huge, and there he was, the top of every chorus, saying, “I know you and you’d have to do the two
as calm as could be. He led the band where one is! Swing through it!” Billy rudiments that he gave you for that
with his dynamics, his breaks between Higgins told me that I needed more week. I always remember him telling
melodies were so dynamic and would “emit.” That’s time spelled backwards, me to slow down and play full strokes,
build so much tension— He would that was the Max Roach way of saying that was a huge lesson. Another thing
turn a song into a whole different tune, it. I started listening closer to the that made an impression on me was
just by the way he played it. records. I noticed that when Billy was that Alan owned a house. Even in 8th
MD: Is there anything else that you playing, he would often swing straight grade, I remember thinking that’s
would like to say about Billy Higgins? through the top, so the momentum kind of cool. That’s a dream of mine to
JF: Higgins told me once, and I still just kept going up, up, and up… Then have a house and teach like Alan did
think about this today. Billy said that after 10 choruses of building that in his basement. His lessons were very
a lot of drummers play as if they are tension, Billy might finally play a crash consistent, there was nothing personal,
walking in a room and announcing, with a little fill creating this amazing it wasn’t that you have to play this way,
“Here I am!” Billy always wanted to be release! You can hear that on a Hank he wasn’t trying to change your style,
the drummer that walked in the room Mobley record called Straight No Filter, it was just straight information. He was
and started playing, and 10 minutes they play “Soft Impressions,” and they so clear with his strokes, he made you
later the saxophone player would turn double the bridge. McCoy Tyner is on care about every stroke that you were
around and say, “Who’s that playing fire and Billy’s playing time, but not playing. Whether you were doing a
drums?” Regrettably, I don’t always once does Billy fill at the top of the flam, a paradiddle, or a five-stroke roll,
do that, but I know what he’s talking chorus. THAT’S what’s different from you executed every stroke with care.
about. today, today there’s Still today, I want a little
Higgins’ playing made everyone a fill on every two Alan Dawson in every
feel good. I saw him a lot with Cedar
Walton at Bradley’s, where you had
measures whether you
like it or not. Still today, note that I play. These
drummers that we love,
to play kind of quietly. One-time Max
Roach was sitting next to me. When
MD: You play a killer
brush solo on My I want a little they play themselves,
but they also have all
Billy Higgins saw a musician walk in, Heroes in tribute to these other influences
he would sit up a little taller. But when
Max Roach walked in, Billy looked like
Alan Dawson. Did
you study with Alan
Alan Dawson in in them, drummers
from the past. It’s a
Kareem Abdul Jabbar he was sitting
so tall. He took a solo and played right
Dawson?
JF: I sure did, for two
every note that family and you feel that.
There’s drummers that
at Max. As he played, Max would say
“Baby Dodds,” and Billy would play
years. I first heard Tony
Williams on Miles Davis’ I play. that don’t have that,
and drummers that do.
like Baby Dodds. Then he would say Live in Tokyo and it When Billy Hart plays
“Sid Catlett” and Billy would play like changed my life. That’s you know that he loves
him, this went on and on. That night the great thing about records and liner all these other drummers, and it comes
the trio played “A Night in Tunisia” and notes, you hear a record, and it leads out in his playing.
Billy “just” played these super swinging you to other guys on other records. MD: It’s the roots of the drumming
eighth notes on the floor tom on the I bought that record because I had tree. Those roots are what makes a tree
break, and the place went crazy! It was bought Weather Report Live in Tokyo unshakable, and the deeper the roots,

the more steadfast the tree. first two lessons were listening to Sarah on the drums and play along to Buddy
JF: Amen. If you have roots in Max Vaughan, we didn’t even get to the Rich “West Side Story” and Count Basie
Roach, Alan Dawson, and Art Blakey— drums. Speaking of touch, how about “April in Paris” (with Sonny Payne.) Every
You might not be “the best,” but you the touch of Jimmy Young on the piano time I heard those records, I felt like I
aren’t going to get knocked down. with Sarah? When you hear a musical was at a party. I couldn’t believe Buddy’s
MD: What does the word “touch” mean touch like that it makes you play the power when he played the big solo.
to you, and how have you worked on drums better. Once I was in the back People to try to “thumbs down” Buddy—
yours? room at The Vanguard and Roy Haynes sorry, he was the greatest. I don’t know if
JF: When you said “touch,” there were literally put his finger on the drum and it’s jealousy or what. He was really good
two images that came to mind. The first the sound went through the room. That buddies with the Philly Joe Jones and
was the way that Art Taylor’s stick hit makes you really realize how dynamic Jimmy Cobb.
the ride cymbal, the sound he got with the drums can be. MD: When he was surrounded by his
his left hand on the snare drum, and MD: You played a tune for Buddy Rich musical peers like Lester Young or
the sound he got from the bass drum. on My Heroes, what does Buddy mean Charlie Parker, he was a different cat.
That’s touch. When A.T. sat down and to you? JF: When I was making the list of
just hit the ride cymbal, there was no JF: When I grew up in South Hadley, my drummers for that record, Harold
stress, no forcing, and no
effort. It was just a natural
stroke. He just touched
the ride with the stick.
The other image would
be Billy Higgins playing
the ride cymbal, it was the
sound of crystals, beautiful
gems shimmering, crystals
dropping.
There’s two Roy Haynes
images that come with the
word touch. When I saw
Roy Haynes the first time
in 1988, he played a solo
on “Un Poco Loco,” I was in
disbelief in the sound that
he was creating with the
drums. Years later, I heard
him play “The Night has
1,000 Eyes” with Kenny
Garrett, that song switches
Jimmy and Dena Katz

between Latin and swing
through the entire song.
Kenny Garrett took like 30
choruses, and Roy never
went to Latin with a fill
or to swing with a crash.
He just transitioned from
Latin to swing without
fills or crashes, he just “got
there,” it was so beautiful and smooth, four brothers were always playing music. Mabern looked at the list and said you
that’s musical touch. You or I would have My oldest brother David is a drummer, better put Buddy Rich on there, because
been filling between each section. And and all he listened to was Buddy Rich, he’s the greatest.
after 10 courses, we’d eventually start Count Basie, and he watched Soul Train MD: Talk about Elvin.
repeating ourseves, not Roy Haynes! with The OJ’s and Earth, Wind, & Fire. The JF: That was one guy that I never really
When I talked to him all he did was talk middle room was my brother James, he got close to. Even though he was the
about Sarah Vaughan, phrasing, rhythm, listened to the record with Sonny Stitt, nicest guy, but when I saw him, it was
and touch. He said he developed his Sonny Rollins, and Dizzy Gillespie. He just too overwhelming for me. There was
touch by playing with Sarah Vaughan. transcribed everything from that record. too much power there, after he played,
He talked about playing brushes My brother John was a trombone player I was speechless, I would just walk away
with Sarah and learning how she was and listening to Coltrane and JJ Johnson. not believing what I just saw. Talk about
phrasing. You want to hear touch, listen I had my own little 52nd St. in our house. a wide beat and quarter notes. Bassist
to Roy’s playing on Sarah Vaughan Live When my brother would go to school, Gerald Cannon (who played with Elvin)
at Mr. Kelly’s. he would say don’t touch my drums. As told me that one of the only things Elvin
When I studied with Arthur Taylor the soon as he was out of sight, I would leap told him was to respect the width of the

quarter note. Even when he would just thinking one measure at a time, you’re in minding your own business and
be chopping wood on two and four, or trying to fit things in there. But when surrounding yourself with good people.
just playing straight up swing with his Elvin was thinking eight beats at a time, He would tell you that if you have the
quarter notes. That’s how they separate he didn’t have to put the bass drum will and the desire, and you do the hard
themselves from the rest. exactly on one. It could be there, but it work, you’ll get stuff done and achieve
If you listen to Elvin on McCoy Tyner’s didn’t have to be. Elvin is beyond me, greatness.
“Passion Dance” you or I would play 10 you go back to the JJ Johnson records When I got my first “big gig” playing
times more than Elvin Jones is actually and especially the brush playing on with Benny Golson at Sweet Basil, Betty
playing on that tune. There’s not a fill on Tommy Flanagan Overseas, and you can Carter, Ray Bryant, Clifford Jordan,
every bar. When we (mortals) try to play really hear where Elvin came from. George Coleman, all these superstars
like Elvin it seems to take us 10 more MD: You played a solo for Baby Dodds, came to the club. I was happy I just
notes to try to do what he’s doing. He’s tell me about that? made it through the week. On the last
playing four strokes but it’s taking us JF: Through playing in New Orleans, with night, this guy comes in wearing a
20 strokes, his hands actually weren’t Wynton Marsalis, and conversations with cowboy hat, beautiful glasses, a $10,000
moving that fast. But his beat was just so Herlin Riley, I’ve learned a lot. Obviously, belt, and he’s staring right at the drums,
wide. I didn’t know Baby Dodds. But I spent it’s Roy Haynes. Benny Golson leans
MD: How does one widen their own a good deal of time talking to Vernell in and says, “Let’s play ‘Stablemates’
beat? Fournier about Baby Dodds. The only and at the end we’ll play a duo just sax
JF: First of all, you gotta be aware of it, thing we really have on Baby Dodds and drums. And by the way, that’s Roy
and every time you play you gotta think is the records and that video of him Haynes, so play everything you know.”
that I’ve got to make the beat wider. talking drums and playing the shimmy. There were some young drummers
You gotta breathe more and you’ve I would ask Vernell Fournier about the there that week that wanted that gig,
got to relax. You can’t force things; you sound that he was getting out of his and they let it be known. But after the
have to let the music come to you. I’m press rolls and his brushes. He answered last night, Benny calls me and says,
lucky, I have experienced examples of me by talking a lot about Baby Dodds. “Roy Haynes thought you were a bad
this while playing with Ron Carter and Once again, I was sitting there asking cat. Roy said he knew it by the way I
sat down at the drums and played a
Elvin is beyond me, you go back to the JJ quarter note with my right hand and
right foot at the same time. He said he
knew that I could play from the way the
Johnson records and especially the brush sound of the bass drum and the ride
cymbal hit together.” That showed me
playing on Tommy Flanagan Overseas, and you everything that you would ever want
to know about geniuses like Roy. They
can really hear where Elvin came from. want you to sound good, they wanna
come out and support, and they want
to feel good. They’re not up there saying
this guy can’t do that, and that guy
Bob Cranshaw. When you play with bass a drummer about something, and he can’t do this. They are positive. The next
players like that you learn a lot. Playing answered me by talking about another week I subbed for Kenny Washington
with Ron showed me that sometimes I drummer, just like Max, it’s never about for one night with Johnny Griffin at the
actually have to take a breath between you. My solo was as much about my love Vanguard. Roy came in again and we
four and one. I found that I was already for Vernell as it was about Baby Dodds. had the longest chat, he was just so kind.
on one while he’s still in the middle of MD: I really think the shimmy is the A.T. and I were watching trumpeter
his “thing.” I would have to think 1, 2, 3, predecessor of the jazz ride cymbal Roy Hargrove once, and a drummer
4, breathe, 1. With Bob when the music pattern, that’s where it came from. came up and said that he thought the
was exciting, I could feel myself raising JF: You might be on to something, I’ll drummer wasn’t playing well, and that
the tempo. Then Bob would be there like have to think about that. The five-stroke he should be up there playing. A.T. just
a Mack truck, and I’d breathe and slow roll is basically the shimmy, but when told him to get the hell out of here and
down and relax. It’s just being aware of you go back and hear Baby Dodds doing mind your own business, we’re here to
it, but everyone has to be aware of it. it, it’s like two different worlds. He plays have fun. A.T. just shot this guy down
Only a special few have “that.” It does it and it sounds like butter, when we play and said to me, “I’ve met a million people
seem like a lot of the guys that have it, it has a harsher military sound. The like that in my life, all they want to do is
“that,” have played with Bird, because shimmy is how they used to swing back talk bad about someone else, and you
you had to have that to play with Bird. in the day, there was no ride cymbal yet, don’t know any of their names, and you
Max, Roy Haynes, Buddy, AT, Blakey— and the king of that was Baby Dodds. never will. A.T., Jimmy Cobb, and Roy
they all played with Bird, that’s the MD: Talk to me about the national Haynes would all tell you, “Take care of
common denominator. Someone said treasure that is Roy Haynes. the drums and the drums will take care
that Elvin asked Bird about phrasing JF: If there’s anything I believe in, it’s that of you. Mind your own business, your
and Bird said that he thought about two there’s Roy Haynes, and there’s the rest business is the drums.”
measures at a time. You could feel Elvin of us, period! I can tell you exactly what MD: You have played on dozens of
thinking eight beats at a time. If you’re I learned from Roy and A.T. Art believed records, what are the ones that you

would point people to as your favorites? hats, and I have always liked them. greatest drumming ever. I have a pair
JF: I love The House of Tribes with Wynton Jimmy Lovelace was one of the of Lou Hayes sticks on my kitchen table,
Marsalis. He told me that he hired me greatest drummers ever. We used to live and I play them every morning.
for that because a couple people in his together and play double drums, and my MD: Who are some of the young
camp were saying that I “couldn’t” play. hands were always moving twice as fast drummers that you are paying attention
Because of that, he knew I could play, as his, but he sounded better. He was as to?
and that’s why he hired me. A big one smooth as glass, a great drummer. His JF: There are so many younger
for me was Beautiful Friendship with touch would make one stroke sound like drummers it’s hard to keep up, and
Cedar Walton. To have him arrange all two notes, that’s touch. I don’t know how young they are
those tunes for me, and to have him I like playing bright cymbals, and anymore. But guys like Kyle Poole, Evan
on the cover, he’s never done that for I play them with 2B nylon tip sticks. Sherman, Alan Menard, Mark Whitfield
anybody. To have a giant like Wynton on Ray Appleton told me one time that Jr., and Kush Abadey are cooking. I still
my record A Time To Swing meant a lot to my cymbals were too washy and that think of my peers like Eric McPherson,
me. I did a record with Curtis Fuller and I should play with nylon tips, so I tried Bill Stewart, Jonathan Blake, and
Benny Golson, and to play with those it and I’ve never gone back. Back then Nasheet Waits as young.
two on a record playing Blues After Dark the only jazz drummers using nylon tips MD: When you hear your new record, do
was big. Then there is Eric Alexander’s were Billy Higgins, Kenny Washington, you think you sound different?
Nightlife in Japan with Ron Carter playing Louis Hayes, and Mickey Roker. Nylon JF: I’m getting there. I’m pushing and not
playing any pre-conceived
ideas. When you play with
Kurt Rosenwinkel or Brad
Meldau, they are playing
stuff that you’ve never heard
before, so you can’t rely on
older vocabulary. You have
to let go, be present, trust
them, and go with them. No
one wants to be out on an
island alone.
Whatever the
musical conditions are on
the bandstand, you have
to power up for every
gig. I try to go back and
remember what all these
great musicians have said
to me along the way. Barry
William Brown
Harris sent me a video

before he passed away
saying, “No matter the cost,
be the boss! Be the boss, no
matter the cost.” Now there’s
the responsibility of passing
along what everyone has
taught me. It’s an obligation
that I take seriously, and I
am trying do it all the time.
bass. Eric, Harold and I have made a tips are clear, and they have a point, it’s Thankfully, social media has allowed me
lot of records together, and Eric could like Mickey’s sound on Speak Like a Child, to do just that. I can share all my lessons,
get anyone, but he’s been kind enough clear and sparkling. love of music, and the moments I had
to keep using me. Pharoah Sanders MD: You just mentioned Louis Hayes. with the masters like A.T. Max, Billy,
The Creator Has a Master Plan is one JF: He lives five minutes away from Jimmy Cobb, Alan Dawson, Art Blakey,
that’s very important to me, as is Cedar me, and it’s nice to know he’s there. Leroy Williams, and Jimmy Lovelace
Walton’s One Flight Down. Of course, my Talk about hands and touch on a ride whenever I want to. I want to continue
first record, Junior Cook’s You Leave Me cymbal— His pad practice is legendary. to live happy, joyous, and free. And to
Breathless was something to remember. The way he played the hi-hats on “Del play that way, just like Billy Higgins
MD: What cymbals are you using now? Sasser” with Cannonball Adderley is told me. Follow Joe on Instagram
JF: I have a nice old 22” K, an older genius. The stuff he played on Barry @joefarnsworthdrums
18” A that is a nice Louis Hayes-Kenny Harris Live at the Jazz Workshop, Joe
Washington type of cymbal, and a nice Henderson The Kicker, Horace Silver’s
Check out Joe’s
set of 13” A hi-hats that Jesse Simpson Finger Poppin’, and with Cannonball on drummer profile page,
refurbished. Jimmy Lovelace played 13” Live in San Francisco, that’s some of the at moderndrummer.com

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From London to L.A. with fire!
By Daniel Bedard
W hen you scroll through social media

pages you see many different posts
from various guys, and you might stop for
only a few seconds on one who caught your
attention. But sometimes, you might spend
more than a few seconds on a clip because the
guy playing showcases a very inspiring talent.
That’s what happened to me when I first
became aware of Louie Palmer. I remember
seeing a few clips of his when he first moved
to LA back in 2013, he was playing some
very nice sounding drums and showcasing
his incredible ability on the set. From that
moment, I was hooked. I started to look for
more clips of his and became interested in
what he was doing professionally. I even took
a lesson with him. Several years have passed,
and Louie is still bringing the fire, coaching,
and inspiring a lot of drummers via his
playbetterdrums.com website.

Marcus Wolf

MD: Can you tell us about how you got instrument. the age of 12 to 17 years old, I did a
started with drumming? MD: I have heard of that system for different orchestra and big band called
LP: I’m from south of London in the instruments like violin and piano but the Merton Youth Concert Band and
suburbs, the county is called Surrey never for drumming. the Merton Youth Jazz Orchestra, Those
which is about 40 minutes from LP: It was fairly new when I did it. were two separate alternating bands,
London. My dad was an excellent and Eventually they expanded it to different one Wednesday would be the concert
professional drummer, he played a lot of types because the grade system that band and the next one would be the
jazz and was a beautiful brush player. I I did was “quite classical,” then they jazz orchestra. It was the best thing
was lucky to have a musical parent who branched out to rock versions and other ever. I was with kids from all around. I
introduced me to the drums. I remember types of music. did the classical stuff with the concert
being maybe five or six years old and MD: Was this when you were young and band and the big band thing with the
having a toy plastic saxophone that going into your teenage years? jazz orchestra. We got to travel, we did
came with a brochure with pictures of LP: Yes, I had lessons at school from mini tours for a couple of years, we went
other instruments. I started pointing around 12 to 16 years old. My dad to Italy, Norway and more. It was just a
at the drums saying I wanted to have continued to teach me and we would great learning experience because I was
the little plastic toy drum kit. My dad play at home. I was lucky that we were having lessons with my dad at home
had a little kit that he set up for me, it living in a detached house, and we had a and playing with ensembles in town.
was a little black Beverly kit, they were room for the drums. We had two kits set How many kids, especially drummers,
a division of Premier drums, I think. I up and we would play together. get to go and learn how to read, follow
had a 20” bass drum with a 12” and 14” MD: What kind of stuff were you doing a conductor, and play classical music?
toms and that was the beginning for back then? Were you playing with I remember experiences playing snare
me. My dad taught me how to play and friends and bands? drum or drum kit in an orchestra in this
I had some lessons at school when I was LP: This is another way that I was very big gymnasium and when you’d make a
seven or eight. After that, I went to high lucky. Around 11 years old, I joined a mistake, and the conductor would stop
school and had lessons with a guy called local youth concert band with brass and the band and he point at you in a room
Peter Precious who taught me how to all. The local town had a band called the of 40 kids. Everyone would turn around
read and showed me a lot of the basics Sutton Youth Concert Band. and look at you because you made
including working on rudiments. We also MD: And that was not school related? a mistake, or you weren’t following
did the grade system here in England LP: No, that was outside of school. the conductor. Those were great
where you would do grade 1-2-3, then That was a local thing. With that I was experiences. I was doing all this drum
there would be a period of study and playing classical music, orchestral things, stuff, checking out fusion drummers, and
an exam where you would pass or snare drum, reading, and following then going to rehearsal and switching
fail. The grade system in the UK was a a conductor. I also played a little bit into music mode, because a lot of the
way to rank where you were on your of marimba and tympani. Then from stuff I was interested in didn’t apply
Marcus Wolf

because you had to do the drummer’s Then, I came back to London, carried drummer, although is knowledge is
job. on and kept on studying with Thomas a pretty extensive. It was interesting
That was up until I was around 17 little bit. because he is known for playing in a
years old, then when I turned 18, I MD: What kind of stuff were you working certain way and style of music, but we
started studying with Thomas Lang. He on with Thomas Lang? covered a little bit of Afro-Cuban things
lived in London back then, I met him at LP: All our lessons were on pads and and some jazz. His knowledge is vaster
a drum clinic he was doing in London. V-Drums because he had a room at the than what people think.
I don’t think I’d ever seen a drummer back of his house which was a drum MD: How did the lessons with Dave
play like that before, him and Virgil room, but he never set up acoustic Weckl come about?
were the only guys really to play all that drums. He had a load of V-Drums, pads, LP: Dave used to do weeklong gigs at
incredible stuff. I saw him play and just and practice kits, so we would do a Ronnie Scott’s with his band and I would
went up to him at the end and asked lot of technique stuff. Up until I was go every year. I was such a super fan of
him if he was teaching and he said yes. 18 years old, I never really had proper his and I would email him and just ask
I studied with him for about two years, technique lessons, my dad taught me for lessons. He was always very nice
but we only did maybe 8 lessons. It was basics (of course.) I play traditional grip, to me, he always replied. I went to the
spread throughout the year, every few because he played it. But I really hadn’t shows, trying to follow up and talk to
months I’d go for a lesson. Meanwhile, had anyone teach me any “high end him, and it wouldn’t happen, or he’d say
from the age of 12 to 18, I was gigging technique.” Thomas really completely he was too busy. Eventually it worked
too because I met so many musicians changed everything with my grip, out in 2004. I went to Ronnie Scott’s
through these youth bands. There and he taught me proper technique. for a lesson during the daytime. Dave’s
was a guy named Pablo Mendelssohn Everyone has different techniques drums were set up on stage and we did
and I would go out and play little jazz and different versions of things, but a lot of pad stuff. I had to play on his kit,
gigs. So I was gigging throughout this I thought he was amazing. Everyone and I actually remember playing ok. I
period too. I also went to the Berklee remember saying to him, “I’m just a bit
College of Music very briefly. When I nervous. Imagine if Buddy Rich said to
was 15 years old, I went to Ireland to
audition for Berklee because they would
Thomas Lang really you, sit down and play (because Buddy
was his favorite drummer.)” It was a
do the world scholarship tour and the crazy experience, it was a good two hour
closest place they came to was Ireland.
So I went there, did the audition, got a
completely changed lesson and we kept in touch over the
years. I have had three lessons with him
scholarship and attended when I was
18. I went to Berklee in 2004 but only everything with my over the years.
MD: Were your lessons always in
for a few months. I did one semester London?
there and just didn’t like it. It was a weird
experience.
grip, and he taught me LP: The next one was in 2007 in London,
and it was a very good one. I rented a
MD: What didn’t you like about it? rehearsal space and I packed two drum
LP: It was a mismatch of expectations
and reality and being 18. I had a place
proper technique. kits into my car because I wanted us to
play together. So I packed the kits, drove
to practice at home, I was gigging, I was to London, paid for his taxi, and then
studying with Thomas, at home it was went to this place in London and setup
100% drumming and music all day long. the kits and we did the lesson. That
Then I got to Berklee and it was a very used to rave about his feet, but I always was great! Then we hung out, went for
different experience. There were 3000 used to think he had the most beautiful dinner afterwards, he was really cool to
students and over half of them were hand technique, and he still does. He me. The third lesson was in Los Angeles
guitarists and drummers so there was can do all that crazy stuff like push at his place around 2014.
maybe a thousand drummers and there pull techniques and all those great MD: You have studied with a few very
were 18 practice rooms. A lot of the gear techniques, but I just always thought famous guys. How were the lessons with
was broken, you had to put your name he had beautiful hands. So we did a lot Peter Erskine and Virgil Donati?
down and wait for hours to practice. of pad stuff, hand stuff, foot stuff and LP: Virgil’s was in 2005, I went to the
It was just a very weird experience. independence, a lot of his core systems NAMM show, I emailed him a few
I probably should have stayed and he teaches. We got into his matrix times and then we arranged a lesson, I
studied something specific like system where you play rudiments with went to his studio and that was a great
composition or music theory, something your feet and rudiments with your hands experience. He had me sit down at the
outside of drumming. But I was so on top and you cycle through different drums and play to a click really slowly.
desperate to play, and I just didn’t get things. You play paradiddles with your He just said “play.” That’s hard to do
to. It was costing my parents thousands feet, and you go through all the different for anybody but more so when you’re
of dollars, and I was away from home combinations of orchestrating things on nervous and playing someone else’s
where I was already gigging and had a the drums with your hands. drums.
great teacher, so I went back home. That That was in combination with having That was another example of how
was a brief experience but I met some lessons with Dave Weckl around foundational things are so incredibly
interesting people. I studied briefly with the same time and also studying strong with these guys, because after
Mike Mangini and that was interesting. jazz. Obviously, Thomas is not a jazz I played, he sat down and played at

the same tempo, and it was incredibly the big picture things, and he didn’t was a mixture of the two. I played in a
solid. We all know Virgil for his chops and really have any advice on technique bunch of wedding bands, and had a lot
his amazing technique but his time is or independence or anything like that, of gigs around London in restaurants and
incredible. it was all very conceptual. We would bars. I was also playing at the 606 and
The lesson with Peter was in LA in play together, and he would talk about at Ronnie Scott’s in London, I did a lot of
2011. I moved to LA in 2013, so in 2011 playing jazz. I remember at the time; I was singer-songwriter things, I made records
and 2012, I went in preparation to find very much into Louie Bellson and Buddy at Rockfield Studios in Wales, which
a place to live. I went to Peter’s house, Rich. But my interpretation of that, at 15, is a very famous studio where Queen
and he had me play brushes. He had a was very square. Mark was the first guy recorded their albums. I was playing a real
piano with an automatic device that plays that talked to me in conceptual ways mixture of styles too, it wasn’t just jazz
songs. I played brushes on a standard and fusion, there was a lot of rock and
and he recorded it. We listened back, and vanity projects too. People would hire a
he would hit pause and ask me, “Why ...after I played, he sat band to make a record and do gigs and
did you play that?” I was playing some through different studio engineers that
extra little fills here and there which
(upon listening,) we both realized were
down and played at I knew, I would be recommended to do
things. I was just playing all over London
pointless. So we went through why I was and the UK.
playing certain things. That was a great the same tempo, and it MD: At some point, you decided to make
lesson. the move to LA.
I also had a lesson with Will Kennedy
in 2005. He had a studio opposite to
was incredibly solid. We LP: It was always my dream to live
in America, 99% of the drummers,
Virgil’s place. He’s an amazing drummer, musicians, and music that I liked was
one of my absolute favorites. He has a
curriculum that he would go through,
all know Virgil for his American. I also went on vacations as
a kid with my parents, I wanted to be
he’d do some play-along’s of the
Yellowjackets and some groove ideas. I
chops and his amazing surrounded by American culture and
music. In 2004, Berklee was part of that.
asked about his feel and groove because I thought that maybe if I went to Berklee
his pocket is amazing. We talked about
things like tuning and pulling sound out
technique but his time is and studied, it would be a way to stay and
build my life in America, but that didn’t
of the drums and how important that is.
He also said that nothing ahead ever is incredible. work out. In 2011, I went to Canada to
do some gigs with an incredible singer
funky, so to always be thinking slightly Ola Onabule. Then I flew down to LA to
behind the beat, that’s what’s funky in see some friends, and I got to see Dave
his opinion. Then we traded, he had two about music, but his playing was very Weckl play, I even got to drum tech for
kits setup and that was just the most fun loose and very organic. When I would him while he was playing at Catalina’s
thing. We played a groove, and we would play swing time, it was very square and in LA with Chuck Loeb. So I got to drum
trade four’s back and forth. It was fun to he introduced me to a different way of tech for him and sit right behind his
do that with one of your heroes. You’re playing, different jazz records to listen to. drums for the shows, I’ll never forget
hearing the vocabulary that you know so He nudged me into a different direction that, it was crazy and so much fun. I had
well, right next to you. which at the time was very helpful. been there a few times but that was the
When I was a teenager, I also had MD: What kind of gigs were you doing moment where I decided “Ok, I’m going
lessons with Mark Mondesir. He’s an back in your early years? to do it.” I spent 2012 preparing and
amazing musician and he was very LP: Through my teenage years, I was saving some money, and in January 2013
supportive; I’ve had three or four lessons doing jazz gigs and earning a little bit of I moved to LA. I had some friends here
with him over the years. The lessons were money on the side. When I was 18, I left like Janek Gwizdala who’s a phenomenal
very interesting, I was about 15 or 16 school and started teaching. I started to bass player, he’s been a friend for a long
years old. He’s a very conceptual guy and build my teaching skills from that early time, and we played together a bunch in
I remember a lot of it was going over my age actually and having lessons with London when he would come in town. I
head because I just wasn’t good enough many different people helped because was tired of London and when I moved,
or experienced enough with music everyone teaches differently. So I was I also considered New York but it was
to understand. He was talking about teaching and gigging to earn a living, it too similar to London, a grind and an
expensive city to live in. LA is so spread
out and so different.
MD: How did you manage to make it
Louie’s Top 5 Favorite Recordings: work? It must be hard at first to build your
network.
Yellowjackets - Club Nocturne (Will Kennedy) LP: Yes, I took a huge risk, I knew it would
Tower Of Power - Soul Vaccination Live (David Garibaldi) be difficult. It was tough at the beginning,
Mike Stern - Voices (Vinnie Colaiuta & Dennis Chambers) even though you have friends who
Roy Hargrove & the RH Factor - Hard Groove (Willie Jones III & Jason Thomas) recommend you and tell people about
Chick Corea Electric Band - Inside Out (Dave Weckl) you, it doesn’t mean that you land, hit
the city, and start geting gigs. So I saved

money, knowing that there was going I was here for a year, and I saw my Drums” came about?
to be a long period where I wouldn’t be friend Janek who was one of the first guys LP: That aligns with the rise of social
gigging. But I did some work and things to do the online lessons thing and he media, the music business was already in
started to happen. However, I must admit had a very successful website doing bass a massive decline in early 2010’s. I spent
that it was slow. On the other hand, I lessons. He built a following and he had a year here and I wasn’t earning enough
had done so many years of my gigging branches of podcasts, online lessons, a money to survive so I realized that I had
sideman thing in my twenties. I never book, and he would tour and sell records. to diversify because it’s only going to
wanted to be that musician, the guy He was a good example of how someone get worse, the music business was just
who was the around town guy, doing had built this little world for themselves declining so much. It was a necessity; I
restaurants, bars, weddings, and all and didn’t have to rely on other people was looking at some other people who
sorts of stuff. Although, there’s nothing for their weekly gigs. I was hanging out did it and thinking that it was a good
wrong with that and I still do that. You with Janek, and his life was different idea. I was thinking that I had to build a
can get big gigs from that because all to most musicians. He would tour and business rather than just waiting to be
sorts of musicians are coming in and out play with musicians like Mike Stern, but hired for a gig. So I started it and I bought
of that world. You can meet someone his home life in LA was different. We some cameras. I had been teaching a
Marcus Wolf
on a wedding gig that recommends you would hang out together on the tennis lot in my twenties but learning to teach
for a huge arena tour gig. But all the courts or the golf courses and I thought on camera, thinking about building a
people I looked up to were artists in their there’s something here that seems pretty curriculum, learning about lights, and
own right, doing their own music and good, so I set up my own drum website video editing was just all new to me, I just
something unique to them and trying using his site as a model. I tried to use did it as I went along. Some of the early
to exit from that world. Of course, I had Instagram, Facebook, and making videos videos are pretty basic, but I guess that’s
to earn money, that’s always an issue. So as a way to build my audience. That’s the only way to do it, you have to jump in
I decided to get a studio here because when my life changed in terms of how and start learning.
in London you can’t do that and in New much I was relying on getting gigs. I’m MD: Were you doing all of that yourself?
York it’s too expensive and they just not a super sociable person that likes LP: Pretty much, yes. Janek was helping
don’t exist. In LA, there are studios and hanging out until three in the morning because he had already done that.
lockout buildings everywhere, so I got my at gigs. I was already aware of that fact so He would give me advice on website
own studio and I gradually built it with that makes it harder to get gigs when you building, but I pretty much did it on my
equipment, and I started my lesson site move to a new town. own. I had the idea and the concept
in 2014. MD: This brings us to how “Play Better because I had seen someone else’s

website, but I had to do all the website beginners and early to intermediate when I was eight years old. He wrote
design on my own. I’m a drummer, playing. The only other guy I can think back and sent a signed photo with a
I knew nothing about marketing, of that is doing this is Cliff Almond. He’s little letter and I had it framed. Shortly
so yes, it was all on my own. The an incredible world class player and after that, I went to see him play at
interesting thing is that I used to get he has an online lesson site. Of course, the Queen Elizabeth Hall in London,
very frustrated, we’re talking about Dave Weckl and Thomas Lang have then he did a percussion appearance
hundreds of hours sitting behind a their online schools too. at a festival with a big band and I got
computer, building websites, and MD: Can beginner students also find to meet him backstage, he was such a
doing that stuff. It gets very frustrating content that suits them at Play Better nice guy, a complete gentleman.
and you end up thinking, “Screw it! Drums? At eight years old I remember
I’m just going to hire someone, I want LP: Definitely. A lot of it is based being introduced to the Buddy Rich
to pay someone else to do this.” But on fundamentals which is what my Memorial concert videos with Weckl,
Janek was always telling me, “That’s the teachers always talked about. There’s Gadd, and Dennis. I was really taken
wrong thing to do, you need to learn a lick of the month series but that’s by Dennis Chambers. As a teenager
to do everything yourself because the only series that’s based on licks, both him and Weckl were my absolute
then, you’re in control of everything.” all the rest of the site is based on favorites. Then, of course Steve Gadd,
At the time, I thought this is a terrible fundamentals like hand and foot Vinnie Colaiuta, Simon Phillips, and
idea, but it was actually the best thing technique. Students also learn to all the usual suspects. Another one
to do. You’re trying to get a school up improvise, improve their time, and of my top favorites is Steve Ferrone,
and running but you end up building improve their ability to speak in I absolutely love his playing, I got to
all these other skills and once you get see him play a few times and I would
good at these things, someone else play along to his records endlessly. Will
might ask you to build a website and It was tough at the Kennedy was a huge favorite, Virgil
you suddenly have this other skill to Donati, Thomas Lang of course. Later,
offer.
The pandemic is a good example of
beginning, even though I got into Tony Williams, Jeff Hamilton,
and Keith Carlock. I got into Buddy
how so many musicians were screwed. Rich a little later, I was always aware
They had no other skills in terms of
being able to do all the things that
you have friends who of him, I would watch his videos, but I
really got into him in my twenties.
they suddenly needed to do. Everyone
was doing Skype and Zoom lessons,
recommend you and MD: You played with some
heavyweight musicians like Mike Stern,
but no one had any idea how to do Randy Brecker, and Tom Scott. Can you
any marketing and no one had a home
studio setup. No one knew how to
tell people about you, it tell us about those experiences?
LP: I played with Mike Stern in 2013-
record their drums, no one took any
care about recording and their sound. doesn’t mean that you 2014 and that was a great experience,
it was a real special moment in my
All these things are very important. I life for me because I was such a huge
remember Weckl saying, “You’ve got
to learn to not only be a drummer, but
land, hit the city, and fan of Mike Stern, of course he had
played with all those great drummers,
you’ve also got to build your own little
universe.” start geting gigs. that’s how I found out about many of
them. But aside from the drummers
MD: Nowadays, if somebody he played with, I loved his playing.
subscribes to Play Better Drums how There was a moment where I knew his
does it work? Do you pay a monthly or 16th notes, 32nd notes, 16th note playing so well that it almost felt like I
yearly fee? triplets, and their ability to string ideas knew what he was going to play with
LP: There’s a few different options, together. A lot of sites will teach you his comping and stuff. I know his tunes
there’s monthly, six months, and a groove or a fill with no concept of upside down, inside out so on the gig, I
yearly memberships. There’s also a how it all comes together. I think that was just raring to go and we played all
lifetime membership. The monthly beginners and intermediate drummers his tunes. It was a trio thing at the 55
membership is the most popular, could benefit because the courses are Bar in New York with Janek Gwizdala,
it gives you access to hundreds of so fundamental based. we also did a recording session.
videos. It’s all my playing and teaching MD: Can you tell us about your biggest MD: What was that recording session
experience, the lessons I had with influences, whether it’s drummers or for?
all these great drummers and all not? LP: The recording session was for an
the information combined in the LP: My dad was obviously my first educational play along app but it never
school. It’s turned into a really great influence, he taught me how to play came to fruition, hopefully it will one
encyclopedia of all sorts of things and he introduced me to Buddy Rich day. We also recorded some other stuff
from grooves to fills to vocabulary to and Louie Bellson. I remember really and were supposed to do something
hand technique and foot technique. I gravitating towards Louie Bellson, in 2020 but of course, the pandemic
don’t think there’s actually anyone else I really loved his playing, he was so happened, but hopefully we will be
doing this. There are lesson websites musical. I was really into his playing, I able to play again soon.
of course but a lot of them focus on actually ended up writing him a letter Two years after I got to LA, I got

to play with Mitch Forman and Tim are on top levels, it’s a real reminder Dennis Chambers, and Dave Weckl. I was
Lefebvre, we did a record with a why these guys are heavy. Everyone’s always fascinated by that.
saxophone player named Nelson Rangell time is so good, they’re so good, that’s I’m working on being better at
in a beautiful studio in Los Angeles. I why I moved to America, I wanted to be stringing ideas together, maintenance
did three records with Nelson including surrounded by that level. I was just born practice, practicing independence
a pair titled Red and Blue and Randy 50 years too late! (laughs) things, and fundamentals. If I’m ever
Brecker played on a track on one of MD: Do you still have a practice routine? lacking inspiration, I go back and
those records. I also played with Tom What are you trying to achieve? listen to people that inspired me in
Scott a couple of years ago, that was LP: Well, I don’t have a routine. I never the beginning, or I listen to modern
great. I got to play all those classic tunes did have a routine. I’m still working on guys that inspire me. I’m just trying to
that Steve Gadd played. the same stuff because what appeals polish my time and my sound, so it’s
I also did a few gigs under my own to me is pretty simple. When I go and not a routine necessarily, I’ll do a lot
name in 2018-2019 with Luis Conte. That see someone play that I like, the things of pad stuff at home on pads with no
was a fantastic experience. I put a band that stick out to me are the musicality, rebound, I make sure that’s taken care
Marcus Wolf
together with Mitch Forman, Brandon the time, the feel, the vocabulary, of by practicing technique things. Then
Fields, which are two guys that I’ve been and improvisation. I feel like I’m just when I get to the drums, I practice a
listening to my whole life. Playing with constantly trying to polish things and lot of improvising. Sometimes I’ll do
those guys was just so amazing!! Playing make my time and sound better because something like The New Breed by Gary
with people you grew up listening to is nothing that the drummers that I like Chester, that book is amazing. But I’m
a weird but great experience because play is particularly complicated. It isn’t doing a lot of improvising and recording
you know their playing so well. There’s mathematically complicated, it isn’t myself and going back and adjusting
a real difference when you’re playing necessarily always technically amazing, things. If you record yourself for 30
with those guys because they’re such it was just the way they played it. We seconds, you’ll have a whole list of
heavyweights, they’re such great players, all know what Gadd plays, we all know things to practice.
you really learn a lot. We all play with the actual notes, we all know what it is, MD: When you talk about players like
guys who are on different levels but but still no one can play it like that. The Gadd, Weckl and others, you were saying
when you do play with the guys who same goes for Keith Carlock, Buddy Rich, that it is not so much what they played

but how they played it. How would you you’re interested in. Two people can textbooks. That’s the real deal, that’s
go about developing that quality? listen to a performance or look at a piece where the real information is. If you are
LP: There is no secret to it. I think of art and walk away with two separate ever going to be a good drummer, it
those guys learned to play that way interpretations. When I went to see means you’re going to play with other
by recording themselves and trying to Dennis Chambers play, the things I took people, and if you ever earn money as
replicate the things that they enjoyed. I away were different from someone else. a drummer you’ll be playing with other
find that a lot of students that I see are Maybe some drummers were impressed people, so get off Instagram and listen to
very much into working from books and by the cross-over thing he did, whereas drummers that are a lot better than you
practicing technical things on the pad. I took away something different. Some that are playing music and playing with
They’re interested in one handed rolls drummers are into mathematical things bands. If you see a drummer that you
and independence things, I was just and some drummers are turned on by like, find out what records they’ve been
never into any of that stuff when I was other things. My thing was always music. on. Listen to them and then listen to the
young, that’s why my technique wasn’t That’s because of my dad and those artists they play with.
together until I was 18 and I orchestras I played with when I was a I remember enjoying Dennis
saw Thomas Lang. Because during kid, it was always about music. Chambers and finding out that he
those years, I just wasn’t interested in MD: Do you have any tips for younger played with Mike Stern. Then I would
technique, it was just all about trying to players wanting to make it in the music just go off on a tangent and listen to
sound like those guys and the way to business? all sorts of Mike Stern records that had
do that is to record yourself. I think it’s LP: Building a career is a difficult with other people on them. I remember
just a process of constantly a/b’ing and discovering and really enjoying a New
comparing. York drummer that I had never heard
I remember asking Weckl about this
in that first lesson, I have a bootleg I’m doing a lot of of named Ben Perowsky who was on
a few tracks of one of Stern’s records,
recording of a song he plays on with I loved his playing. It sends you down
Mike Stern and the feel on that track is
not on top of the beat or rushing, but it’s
improvising and all sorts of rabbit holes when you work
like that. Chick Corea is another one, of
full of energy. When you listen to it, it has
pocket, but it has drive, you know what recording myself and course I had heard of Dave Weckl and I
realized he played with Chick Corea. But
I mean? I keep recording myself and I Chick played with hundreds of other
can’t understand what it is. So to get to
that point, it’s just time in terms of years
going back and adjusting drummers and his recording catalogue
is huge. You can diversify and grow
of trying and trying again and recording
yourself over and over. Getting to know things. If you record your horizon by disappearing down
Chick’s discography rather than it being
your own playing and constantly a/b’ing. drummer based. So just listen to a lot of
I never did any transcribing; I wasn’t
interested in playing someone’s exact
yourself for 30 seconds, music, find a private teacher, study with
lots of different drummers with different
same lick. I wanted it to be a rough approaches and record yourself as much
approximation. If it was a hand/foot you’ll have a whole list of as possible.
combination, it didn’t need to be the That’s the number one thing that
same, but I wanted it to sound the same
and I wanted the vibe to be the same.
things to practice. musicians don’t do enough. I played in
bands with people who are good players
There is no secret, it’s just listening to a and bad players, but the reason the bad
lot of music. I feel like a lot of the young ones are bad, is because they never
students don’t do that. My education the way that the world is, let alone the record themselves. So many people
was cd’s, they’re the textbooks. It’s music business. In terms of getting are in that headspace where they just
interesting now with Instagram and better at the drums, I would just say, don’t want to hear it. And people don’t
Instagram drummers and Gospel chops. listen to music! I know people always want to ruin the experience of a good
There’s this whole weird kind of drums say that, but I mean really seek out great gig when they listen back on their way
only, chops thing, it’s just void of any recordings. I’ve also heard people say home in the car and they are suicidal.
music whatsoever. My education was to not “watch” things all the time. When But it can go both ways too, sometimes
just music, I was into drummers that are I was younger, the drummers and the you can be surprised positively. The
virtuosos like Dennis Chambers, but it music that I actually watched on tv or on more you do it, the more the gap closes
was always hearing them in a musical my computer was actually quite limited. between what you think a gig was like
context, it was listening to Dennis but It was all listening. You went to a show, and what it’s actually like. That’s why
listening to him play with Steely Dan, and it would be visual and audio, but a Peter Erskine and Steve Gadd can go to a
that live record. We all know Dennis lot of my learning was listening. There’s recording session and in one take, make
can play chops forever, he’s faster than a difference when you’re watching all the right decisions. It doesn’t matter
anybody but I only heard him play something or when you’re listening to if it’s a film score or a straight-ahead
music. I feel like, if you listen enough something. I feel like everyone now, thing. They already know, in real time,
to the records and you record yourself because of phones and Instagram, is as it’s happening, what fill and what feel
often and you keep comparing, that’s watching. I would suggest seeking suits the situation. That’s what we’re all
the only way. Taste depends on what out the records, those are the actual working towards.

MD: What are some of your upcoming going to do a video shoot and put record. There’s also a drum book in the
projects? together a great band with Stern and horizon on hand exercises, I don’t know
LP: I’m trying to do a solo record. I had Bob Franceschini but that got delayed, of anything that’s like it. It’s going to
plans to start but then the pandemic so hopefully maybe soon. I don’t know be hand exercises but it’s going to be
happened and priorities have changed. what’s gonna happen, nobody knows routine based. Like you get very specific
I would really like to do that, particularly what’s gonna happen with travelling routines for the gym, I want to do that
with the amount of musicians I know and stuff as the next few years unfold. for the pad. There’s a lot of concise, quick
here, I could put a great team together. I I’m gonna continue working on my and easy to do routines, particularly on a
would get a bunch of different people to school, I record a lot here from my pad with no rebound that really get your
play on it, but there’s a couple of people studio for clients around the world, I hands in shape quickly. I want to collect
Marcus Wolf
that I would work, write, with and just did a really great album with a bass those into a little exercise book, I’ll also
produce with that would be really great. player called Marco Renteria. We did continue to work on my school, and
There’s a piano player in Los Angeles a whole album remotely and it’s really recording here. www.louiepalmer.com
called Ruslan Sirota and he’s an amazing great music. I did a track for an Allan www.playbetterdrums.com
musician, I would love to have him to Holdsworth tribute album with Jason
write some things. Rebello on piano, who I know from
I was supposed to play with Mike back in my days in London. That was
Check out Louie’s
Stern this year, we were gonna do fun to do and that’s coming out soon. drummer profile page,
something for Meinl cymbals, I was Guitarist Enrico Pinna organized the at moderndrummer.com

Laura Donelan
of Music Pro Insurance By Mark Griffith
M any musicians don’t know that

specialized musical instrument
insurance exists. If they do know about
they have a renter’s or homeowner’s
policy, they think they are covered.
Then a $10,000.00 condenser mic gets
losses like fire and theft.
Music Pro also covers accidental
breakage, water damage, theft outside
it, they probably assume it’s going to stolen, and their homeowner’s insurance the home…my coverage is very broad,
cost an arm and leg. And if someone company asks what they’re doing with a our $100.00 deductibles are lower than
knows about it, and is interested, they $10,000.00 microphone. The person will any homeowners or renter’s policy, and
probably assume that there is all type of say I’m a professional musician, and the our policies are usually cheaper.
small print and loopholes. MD: What is the process of
But Modern Drummer is getting a policy, what do
here to tell you that it people have to do?
DOES exist, and it’s not LD: We have a website
that expensive, and with that’s set up to be direct
Music Pro Insurance there to consumer, everything’s
isn’t any hidden loopholes. done on the site which is
Insurance is no fun to talk how I’m able to manage
about, but when you need about 10,000 clients. The
it, it’s the most important application is all set up on
thing in the world. the website, all you have
And you never think of to supply is an itemized
insurance until you need it. list of what you’re insuring.
Let’s learn about Music Pro Once you get the list up
Insurance from their only there, the site calculates
worldwide agent Laura a price based on the
Donelan. exact total submitted. The
MD: Where did the payment comes to me,
inspiration and idea everything usually gets
behind Music Pro processed the same day,
Insurance come from? and your list will live on
LD: I started here in 1994, the website forever. You
and at that point Music can manage and maintain
Pro didn’t even exist. There your list of insured items
was a small insurance if you buy or sell stuff or
program that was exclusive to members insurance company’s reply is, “Oh well if values change. Everything is done
of the Local 802 New York Musicians then that’s business equipment, sorry online, it’s very automated. Many people
Union and nobody in my office wanted you’re not covered.” (especially drummers) back away when
to handle it because it wasn’t a big book MD: Do homeowner’s or renter’s they have to do that initial itemized list.
of business. So I volunteered. insurance ever cover musical But I tell drummers, you don’t itemize
SterlingRisk is one of the largest equipment? every single piece of hardware that you
insurance agencies in the country, and LD: It’s possible. If you’re not a have, just do miscellaneous hardware,
in 1999 we teamed up with ASCAP to professional, you could get a rider on and let it go.
create Music Pro. At the time it was your homeowner’s policy, but a lot of MD: What challenges do drum policies
exclusively for members of ASCAP. times, especially if you don’t have a rider, have, that other musician’s policies don’t
Then every BMI member in the world traditional insurance might have a limit have?
started calling me and telling me how per item, which isn’t going to do you LD: Some drummers insist online-item-
unfair that was. So, we just opened it any good if you’re a collector or have listing every single clamp, stand, and
up to all music equipment owners. That professional level gear. A lot of times arm, and if they insist on doing that,
means professionals, studios, weekend they won’t cover equipment if it leaves fine, but they don’t have to. We do
warriors, hobbyists, collectors, and really the house for any reason, but more cover accidental breakage, so I’ve had
anyone that owns musical equipment. importantly homeowner’s and renter’s drummers that drop a cymbal and don’t
Unfortunately, people assume that if coverage is often limited to certain notice a hairline fracture and then the

next time they play it, it shatters. That’s MD: So there is no rate differentiation studios and big-name bands. I have a few
something we take care of. But if cymbals between different levels of musicians? collectors with upwards of like $300,000
crack from usage we don’t cover damages LD: No. worth of guitars.
from normal use. MD: Without giving me a quote, MD: Roughly what does it run for 100
MD: How do you handle endorsers that approximately what does your typical thousand dollars’ worth of coverage?
might not actually pay for, or pay full policy run a year? LD: About $1270.00 a year. There is a little
price for equipment? LD: You can get 12 or 13,000 thousand quick quote widget on my home page
LD: When people are making up their where you can play around with numbers
list, they do have to assign a replacement and get a quick estimate. They do give a
value for each item. So I tell people if lower rate for computer hardware, so it
you’re sure you’re always going to be could wind up actually being less than
able to get that reduced price then the quick estimate, depending on if
list the lower price, don’t ever list an you’re including computer equipment.
increased price because you’ll have to MD: Who needs insurance?
pay more premium. You can always LD: Anyone that has substantial
change a replacement price that if you investment in instruments and gear;
lose your endorsement or something, because again, they’re probably either
and you can always change the values not covered at all, or not properly covered
and make changes whenever you need on a homeowner’s or renter’s policy. If you
to. have a couple thousand dollars’ worth of
MD: How do you differentiate between gear and you’re just doing it as a hobby
a working pro, a weekend warrior, or a maybe you don’t care. But musicians
semi-pro? amass a lot of stuff over the course of a
LD: I really don’t. The program is a group career or a lifetime. When most musicians
policy, it’s very cookie cutter, everyone have to make that list, they’ll think they
gets the same rates and coverages. have maybe $10,000 worth of gear, then
Whether you are a gigging musician on they put their list together and find out
the road or a hobbyist, you’re going to they have $25,000 worth of gear. That’s a
get the same rates as a recording studio big financial investment that should be
where the stuff never leaves the studio, protected.
or a collector. The same rates and same MD: How many companies are there like
coverages apply to everyone. I don’t care Music Pro, and what makes you guys
what you’re doing with your equipment, different?
where it’s going, or where it’s being used dollars worth of coverage at $175.00 a LD: Customer service. There are a few
or stored. We care about insuring the year. I would say a good 25% of my book companies that do the same thing that
gear properly. You’re also dealing with a is at that $175 minimum premium. I’d say we do. But I’m different because I’m a
company that knows gear, we know what my average policyholders are in the 25 to huge nerd for my job. I know my clients
gear can cost, so we’re not going to tell $75,000 range. I do have a small percent are not 9:00 to 5:00 Monday to Friday
you to get an appraisal, we already know of people that are upwards of a 100 and people. When I say it’s usually a same
what things are worth. $200,000. Those are mostly recording day turn around for applications or
Unfortunately, people assume that if they have a renter’s or

Marcus Wolf
homeowner’s policy, they think they are covered. Then a $10,000.00

condenser mic gets stolen, and their homeowner’s insurance company
asks what they’re doing with a $10,000.00 microphone.
changes, I mean biggest ones was a Whether it’s backline equipment or
it. I check the site Traditional client in Staten Island drummers renting a tour kit. The policy
on weekends and that’s been with me automatically covers up to 25,000 for
holidays because I insurance might for 30 years, and his up to 30 days for rented gear at no
know that someone claim alone in was charge, and I can accommodate rentals
might be putting in
an application or a
have a limit per about $250,000. I’ve
had recent claims
exceeding those parameters for an
additional and nominal charge, so that
change right before
they get on a plane.
item, which isn’t from the wildfires
in California. A few
that comes in handy.
MD: Should music stores have this type
I was on the phone years ago, I had a of insurance?
with someone in going to do you any band on the road and LD: I don’t handle music stores; their
California last night that got into a head clients are my clients. I don’t have a
at 7:00 pm. That’s good if you’re on collision with a separate program for dealers or retailers.
the nature of my tractor trailer that MD: Are you the only Music Pro agent in
clientele.
MD: Our world has
a collector or was really bad. Both
of the drivers were
the world?
LD: Music Pro is owned by ASCAP and
had a lot of claims killed, the band was SterlingRisk. Sterling has been around
in the last 10 years. have professional severely injured, and for 80 or 90 years. I don’t know how
From floods to of course all their many hundreds of employees they have,
wildfires, I’m sure level gear gear was in splinters. but yes, I’m the only one at Sterling that
there have been MD: Is there handles Music Pro.
more claims that ever before, how has any restrictions about domestic or MD: So, if someone is dealing with any
that affected Music Pro? international travel and claims? sort of Music Pro Insurance, short of a
LD: COVID really hit my business hard LD: No, it’s worldwide coverage. claim, they are speaking to you.
because suddenly a lot of my clients MD: How about if or when an airline LD: Yes.
(musicians) stopped working. However, loses, or damages a piece of gear? MD: Wow that’s a great thing to know.
my loss ratio those years was really LD: Loss or damage during air travel or As most of us know, when you deal
good because nobody was on the road, any kind of travel is covered. I actually with any insurance company, you wind
and nobody was leaving their house. I have specific wording in the policy to up talking to 20 different people, and
know that the world of insurance is in include loss or damage that might stem having to repeat the same story 20
a state of flux the past couple of years, from a TSA agent taking something out different times.
but because I’m such a niche and in a of a case and not putting it back in the MD: How many clients do you have
bubble, like a lot doesn’t apply to me. case correctly, and then it gets tossed worldwide?
I have different problems than the rest around and damaged. Or even just LD: About 10,000.
of them, and I don’t have some of their careless baggage handlers. That’s all MD: It sounds like you have thought
problems. covered. of and covered everything, are you a
MD: What is the claim process like if MD: What if someone is shipping musician?
someone unfortunately needs to use something that they sold, and it is lost LD: No, I’m just a big fan of music and
your services?
LD: A lot of times I’m going to be the
first phone call because I’m all the client
Musicians amass a lot of stuff over
knows. There is an 800 number that’s
available 24/7 just to make an initial the course of a career or a lifetime...
report. You can also e-mail a claim in,
there’s forms that you can download. they’ll think they have maybe $10,000
But I always recommend that a client call
the 800 number because it’s a slightly
faster turnaround time in getting the file
worth of gear, then they put their
set. I don’t personally handle claims, the
adjuster is the one that the client would
list together and find out they have
be dealing with directly. Everything
depends on the situation. If it’s a theft, $25,000 worth of gear.
we want to see a police report, if it’s
some type of accidental breakage we or damaged? There’s a whole lot of gear musicians.
want a diagnostic report, a written sellers out there. How about someone MD: Well thanks for offering us
estimate for repairs, and if it can be who’s selling gear and is shipping it? musicians a needed service at a
repaired. LD: Yes, I have a lot of those clients, we reasonable price. I hope no musician
MD: Have there been any extraordinary cover all of that. ever needs your services, but I feel
claims that you have handled recently? MD: Do you guys cover rented gear, and better knowing that Music Pro clients
LD: I can’t name names, but after backline equipment? are in your hands. https://www.
Hurricane Sandy we paid out like LD: The policy does include some musicproinsurance.com
$1,000,000 worth of claims. One of the automatic coverage for rented gear.

BEST SELLING DRUM TITLES WORLDWIDE
UP AND COMING
Danny Schreiber of Quor

By Mark Griffith
T he prog-metal band Quor has been

together since 2013, and their
newest member is drummer Danny
reiber, from Olympia WA, is also a visual
and a tattoo artist operating out of his
studio called The Copper Wolf.
Around that time, I did some tracks
for Chaz Hayes Management (Spice 1,
E-40). In the early 2000s I was in a band
Schreiber. The band just got back from called Pome that got signed to Atlantic
a Japanese tour which found them MD: How long have you been playing? Records under Velvet Hammer music
playing at the Osaka club called Hokage’, DS: I’ve been playing 30 years, since management, we thought that things
as well as Babel Rock Tower and Zirco in I was 12. I started out playing in the were going to explode until they didn’t.
Tokyo. Hokage’ is owned by trash-per- school band and I got into playing per- That knocked me back a bit and I got
cussionist Isariyo Atsushi also known as cussion. Then I picked it up the drums involved in Visual Art and Tattoos.
“Sano San,” who also played on Quor’s pretty naturally. I was obsessed with the I played in lots of bands and
new single “Sam Meets Sara,” which can drums early on, I was playing nonstop, had started losing faith in the whole
be streamed on Spotify. Chris Baseford and I started gigging when I was 13. I music industry when Brian (the singer
(Methods of Mayhem and Nickelback) ended up getting a Roland endorsement from Quor) called. They were in the
is producing the band, and Quor’s full when I was 17 because I was playing and middle of recording an album and they
length record will be released soon. Sch- creating tracks with a hip hop group. had lost their drummer. They asked if I
could record some tracks and I
did, and they loved what I did
on that track. A couple months
later they were shooting the
video and asked if I wanted
to be in the video. That was
for the song “Twiddle in the
Middle” which did pretty well
online and streaming. After
that, I joined the band and
we’ve been going for it ever
since.
MD: What and who are your
influences? Where are you
coming from drum-wise?
DS: I think I have a pretty
eclectic musical background.
I play guitar and I sang in a
band after Pome broke down.
Dave Buckner (the drummer
from Papa Roach) played with
me for a bit in that band, so my
rhythmic sense comes from a
lot of different places. As far as
drummers go Matt Garstka is
at the top of the heap, Anika
Niles drumming is fantastic.
On the other hand, I love Matt
Cameron, Abe Cunningham,
and Danny Carey. Those guys
are the heavyweights!
MD: Did the visual arts start
before or after music?
DS: After. I didn’t even know I
could do anything in the visual
arts, I was always a musician.
For a while the music busi-
ness was certain, and then it
became a lot less certain. I was
always interested and appre-
ciative of the visual arts, but I
didn’t think I could do it. Then I tried it Direct Drive is a specific feel, and it takes longer.
and found that I love creating visual art a while to get used to that. With Quor, MD: Do you use their grip?
as well as drumming. It obviously goes I do a lot of fast double bass stuff, but DS: No, I haven’t tried it yet.
with the culture of the music, I went there’s also a lot of slower grooves that MD: I have to say, when you mentioned
back to school for visual arts, I started needs to happen. I’m finding that the 5A sticks I was going to say that based
practicing, and in 2015 I opened up the direct drives are great if I just want to on your music, 5A sounded a little small.
tattoo studio and fine art gallery. It’s real- burn through some double bass tunes, But 7A? Wow that’s thin!
ly taken off. but I’m finding it a little hard to find that DS: They’re a medium taper stick. I used
MD: Who are some of your art influenc- balance between having the speed and to play a long more pronounced tapered
es? the balance for the groove stuff. I’m gon- 5A stick from Pro Mark. But the feel of
DS: I love Caravaggio, Van Gogh, as far as na keep working with the direct drive for the Scorpion 7A’s felt more solid. When
like more modern painters, I love Lavely a bit and see what happens. I first tried the Scorpion 5A’s they felt a
Miller and Nicolas Uribe. Roberto Ferri is MD: What kind of sticks are you using? little heavy for me, but now I love them.
a modern master. There is a really cool DS: I’ve been using Scorpion Percussion The ball tip gives you a really pro-
tattoo artist out of France whose name sticks for a while, they are a fantastic nounced ping and bell sound too.
is Thomas Carli Jarlier, he is just fantas- company, and the sticks are great. They MD: Your band is a unique combination
tic. One of the cool things about the are the longest lasting sticks I’ve used in of faster metal and groove stuff, how
Internet is that now you’re exposed to so 30 years. would you describe Quor’s music?
many awesome people doing awesome MD: What ones are you using? DS: Quor is a big sounding three-piece
stuff. DS: I use the natural and I was playing band that is very drum and rhythm driv-
MD: What kind of a what kind of gear are the 7A’s, but their sticks are just a little en. Sonically and melodically our songs
you playing? weightier than normal Pro Mark or Vic are similar to what you would hear from
DS: I play Tama Starclassic Maple drums, Firth. I felt like I could use the 7A be- Mastodon. There’s definitely melody, our
Meinl Cymbals, and I have a Black Pan- cause it had the weight of a 5A, and then singer’s vocal lines have a great sense
ther Copper snare that I love, it sounds I moved up to a 5A. I’ve used the same of phrasing. I think we’re much more
great. pair of sticks for two weeks and they accessible than a lot of stuff out today
MD: You have really fast feet, what kind don’t even start to fray. I used a pair of though. We’re excited to watch it grow
of pedals are you using? 5A’s for a bunch of stuff and I developed and see where it goes. Follow Danny on
DS: That’s an interesting question. I have a love for the 5A’s. I’m a rimshot player Instagram, instagram.com/cognitronic
always played Iron Cobra’s; they are my and typically Pro Mark sticks will last a and go to www.thecopperwolf.com
go to. But I just got the DW Direct Drive couple practice sessions before they’re
pedals, and I really want to love them. gone, but the Scorpion’s last 10 times

BASICS
Explosive CONFIDENCE Through Drumming

By Chris Lesso
W here does true confidence come

from? It’s found in the evidence of
actions when you faced your dragons,
The Purdie Factor
You Done It! You Done Hired The Hit
Maker, Bernard “Pretty” Purdie.
the drumming world, but no one can
be him, therefore, he OWNS him. What’s
your ‘superpower’ in drums and life? We
and came out the other side. It’s not just Steadfast self-belief must emanate only have one shot to delve into this
thinking, but KNOWING. Everyday, we from the drummer, or the whole ship deep ocean of drumming, so let’s make
earn another 1%, but we don’t always sinks. A story that embodies this is it your mission to get great at the few
see those steps. Micro-breakthroughs about drumming legend Bernard things that represent your truest heart.
are all around us, if we train ourselves to Purdie. In his early recording studio Don’t add but delete, using simplicity
see them. When challenges become fuel days, after setting up his drums he’d and minimalism to go all in on what
for our growth and setbacks become place two signs on either side of his kit. makes you stand out. Don’t die with your
material for our progress, we become One declared, ‘You Done It!’ The other music still inside you! Take the actions to
unstoppable. Confidence is earned in continued with, ‘You Done Hired The Hit ignite explosive confidence that will be
only one way, by getting in the arena. Maker Bernard ‘Pretty’ Purdie.’ (Bernard your gift to the world.
knows how to keep things fun). I’ve
An undeniable groove isn’t never traveled with my own signs, but The Instrument is You
created by questioning yourself. I love the spirit of taking charge with “I can tell whether a person can play just
“Be yourself; everyone else by the way he stands.” Miles
is already taken.” Oscar Davis Stop playing the
Wilde drums, start playing YOU.
It starts with us! A You are the instrument.
world class drummer The bombshell moment of
lifts an average band to clarity that birthed the LTR
become awesome, but DRUMMING approach and
an average drummer attitude, was that we’re not
will drag a great just playing drums, we ARE
band to being only the drums. We can embody
mediocre. We’re the the rhythm in our inner and
living heartbeat of the outer worlds. It’s in the way
music. Make no doubt we walk, talk, breathe, and
about it, we are guides think.
that have the power to What’s in your body, mind,
transform. Drummers are and heart that you’re striving
the leaders from behind, to get out into the world?
the servant heroes with Ultimately, there’s nowhere
the foundation. The leadership we need total certainty and a playful positive to hide, because the drums never lie.
comes from trusting our inner voice. The energy. With his trademark humor and Many people have said to me, ‘I don’t
more we practice this, the stronger our wit, Purdie stayed true to what he was know what makes me unique’, or, ‘There’s
rhythmic presence becomes, as we lead capable of, by uplifting all those around nothing I play that sets me apart’. But the
with faith. By surrendering to the music him with unbeatable confidence. You truth is, no two drummers strike a drum
and trusting our instincts, we go forth on can do the same. The greatness within in the same way. You simply can’t not be
this journey together. us craves to see the light of day, but it you. Instead of running from this truth,
True confidence is revealed only must be fought for, one action at a time. let’s boldly celebrate it for all to see. On
through actions that access the You’ll never regret revealing too much this journey we don’t just ‘play drums’;
possibility and potential that lies within of your heart at the drums and in life. that’s where mediocrity lives. When you
you. Part of the journey of drumming is The fact that you’re seeking your best express maximum confidence on the
to face the fears of self-doubt, and come self through drumming means you’re drums, YOU become the instrument.
out the other side with an unshakeable already on the path. Go big! Like a dream catcher, the drums capture
certainty that resonates in everything Hold out your thumbs and feel your your creative spark and magnify it to the
you do. The music comes alive through fingerprints. There are no two like world.
your inner fire of confidence to affect them in all the billions of people that
positive change in the world. When you have ever graced the planet. The voice
believe in yourself (even if you’re the you speak is all your own, and it’s is a
only one that does,) you’ll get stronger voice the world needs to hear. Bernard Check out Chris’s Modern
one day at a time, and build explosive Purdie knows he doesn’t have the Drummer profile page at
confidence on the drums and in life. facility of some of the other titans of moderndrummer.com

The
Legends Collection
Not just another drum book or magazine, it’s Modern Drummer Legends!
Extensive and New In-Depth Interviews • Artist Approved Content
New Song Transcriptions with Artist Insights
Never-Before-Seen Photos • Digital Download Components
Legends Coming Soon:

Billy Cobham • Carmine Appice • Gavin Harrison • Giovanni Hidalgo • Carl Palmer
Cindy Blackman Santana • Dave Weckl • Charlie Watts • Eric Singer • Alex González
Buy from your favorite music retailer, check out more at moderndrummer.com/legends
ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC
The Bass Drum Owners Manual:

The Ankle Stroke
By Michael Packer
The Bass Drum Owners Manual
Applying the Moeller Technique DIG
DOWITAL DVD
INCL NLOAD
UDE
D
to the Bass Drum
T
By Michael Packer
his month Modern Drummer will continue to include excerpts from Michael Packer’s essential book on
bass drum control and technique The Bass Drum Owners Manual: Applying the Moeller Technique to the
Bass Drum. As you will see, this is a new way of thinking about bass drum (and foot) control that is based in
an old, popular, and useful hand technique called The Moeller Technique. Michael addresses the essential
components of bass drum and hi-hat control. Let Michael’s wisdom and the wisdom of the Moeller Technique
help you improve the control, sound, and eventually speed, of your feet, regardless of musical style. This
month Michael addresses the bass drum foot and breaks down the ankle stroke as used on the bass drum.
The Ankle Stroke

This stroke is used when playing a series of two or more notes and the tempo is too fast for consecutive leg strokes.
It’s the same as the tap stroke for the hands.
In the wrist as in the ankle, we have a ball joint that allows for a large range of motion up and down. If we extend
all the way up or down there is stress and pain. We are most comfortable and productive when positioned in the
middle. As with the hand in playing position, we simply pivot the wrist. We do the same with the ankle.
After the preparation puts the foot in playing position the ankle pivots guiding the pedal to play successive
rebound strokes. Try to let the beater come back as far as possible to maximize the rebound.
Learning the Ankle Stroke

To understand how to maximize the rebound by using ankle strokes, place your foot and leg in their playing
position and pivot from the ankle. Try to let the beater come back as far as possible. See example 6A.
Ex. 6a ¥ B ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
A A A A
Knowing the tempo at which you must switch from using successive leg strokes to ankle strokes and vice versa is
very important. It depends solely on the speed of the strokes being played. Slow strokes can be played with the leg
and fast strokes with the ankle. Play the following exercise from slow to fast and fast to slow. The transition should
sound as smooth as possible. Make sure to remain relaxed during this exercise. See example 6B
Ex. 6b
¥ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
L L L L accel. poco a poco A A A A
The Down Motion

The down motion occurs just after a single note, or the last group of notes are played. While simultaneously
transferring your weight to the heel, drop the heel to the heel plate. This allows the beater to rebound off of the
head. The foot and leg rest on the ground completely relaxed when not playing.
Ankle Stroke Exercises
1. 2. 3.
¥ B ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
^ ^ ^ ^ ^
^ ^ ^ ^
A A A A A D P A A A A D P A A A D P
4. 5. 6.
¥ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

^ ^ ^ ^

^M ^ ^M ^ ^M ^ M

A A D P A A D P A D P A D P A A A A A D P
7. 8. 9.
¥ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^M ^ ^M
M M M M M M M M M M
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Check out Michael’s Modern Drummer profile page and get your copy of
The Bass Drum Owners Manual at moderndrummer.com
ROCK PERSPECTIVES
The Encyclopedia of Double Bass Drumming

Binary Fills
By Bobby Rondinelli and Michael Lauren
I n the new and revised edition of the Encyclopedia of Double

Bass Drumming, Bobby includes nine new double bass
drumming chapters. The new and expanded edition covers
right-handed players lead with their
left foot— whatever works for you is
OK. Always strive for great quality of
contemporary techniques such as bass drum double strokes, sound and groove and remember to
feet-only exercises, binary and ternary rhythms, “skiplets”, start slowly at first. Have fun!
beat turnarounds, the “ladder”, and playing doubles with the
hands while playing singles with the feet. These concepts will -Don’t worry about speed try to make
challenge your playing while expanding your double bass your feet (and hands) sound even.
vocabulary. If practiced with intention and diligence, this
material will help to prepare you for the demands of today’s -Work on getting your weak foot to
music. This material is advanced, but completely attainable for sound as loud as your strong foot.
anyone who has completed the previous chapters in my book.
This month Bobby explains his concept of binary fills. -Then work on getting your hands as loud as (equal to) your feet
Remember that most beats are written with strong foot lead (if
you are right-handed, then that would be your right foot.) Some
÷ 44 œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
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Check out Bobby’s Modern Drummer profile pages
and get your copy of The Encyclopedia of Double Bass
Drumming at moderndrummer.com
JAZZ DRUMMER’S WORKSHOP
Triplets with Flams

By Joe Morello
I n previous months we have learned about an

often-ignored sound of drumming called Flat Flams.
Then we learned about Joe Morello’s creative way
these at a medium dynamic, practice them at
various dynamic levels, from very soft to very loud.
You should also practice different ways of playing
of combining eighth notes with Flams.This month the flams, from very closed— almost “flat”— to
we will continue with a study of playing triplets with somewhat open. As with any exercise, adapt it to
Flams. Flams are useful on both the snare drum and your own particular needs, and to the type of music
drumset applications as both fills and within grooves. that you will be playing. A rudimental drummer
Joe Morello really breaks everything about down will probably use a lot of arm motion in playing
about playing and using flams in his legendary book the flams; a concert drummer might want to work
Master Studies. on these using finger and wrist control; a drum
set player might want to play the flams between
Eighth Notes with Flams different drums. Use your imagination. These
These exercises should first be played as written, on a snare examples are only to give you ideas.
drum or practice pad, without accenting the flams. After playing
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August 2023 Modern Drummer 67

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R L R L R L R L R L R L R R L L R L R R L R L L
This following paragraph closes Joe Morello’s Master Studies book, we are including it here, because it should
be applied to ALL books, practice, learning, and ultimately creativity.
“These patterns are not necessarily the ones you will use when playing, but you will be able to use the same
techniques in any way you want. You may be able to hear a million “hip” phrases in your mind, but if you can’t
get them out, they won’t do you any good. So these exercises are created to give you the facility to play what you
hear in your mind. These exercises may also stimulate your imagination, which will, in turn, develop your own
creativity.” Joe Morello
Check out Joe’s Modern Drummer profile page and

get your copy of Master Studies at moderndrummer.com
TEACHER’S FORUM
Understanding the Language of Music

Basic Chord Structure
By Ron Spagnardi
Modern Drummer founder Ron Spagnardi wrote an excellent book called Understanding the
Language of Music, a Drummer’s Guide to Theory and Harmony. This book spells out the basics of
theory and harmony in a very easy to understand way. It is a fantastic book for drummers looking
to learn about the language of music beyond drumming. We are honored to reprint the parts of
Ron’s book here in Modern Drummer for everyone to read and learn.
The last time we learned about key signatures and the 12 major scales. Now you’ll see why scales are the
foundation of chord structure. A chord can be defined as three or more notes played simultaneously, in harmony
with one another. The most basic chord consists of three notes and is called a triad. Triads are built by stacking three
notes from a scale. Look at the C major scale below.
Major Triads
To build a C major triad, we use the first degree of the scale, C (also called the root,) E (the third degree,) and G (the
5th degree.) The three notes played together make up a C major triad.
In the next example, you’ll find the major triads in all 12 keys. Each one built on the root, third, and fifth degree of its
scale. Practice and learn them all.

Minor Triads
There are three primary triad alterations, each of which produces a different tonal quality. The first is a minor triad.
To build a minor triad, lower the third degree of the scale by a half step, leaving the root and the fifth the same. The E
now becomes an Eb. The symbol for a C minor triad can be either a Cm and or C-
Below you’ll find the minor triads in all 12 keys. Each one built on the root, lowered third, and fifth degree of the
scale.
Augmented Triads
To build an augmented triad raise the fifth degree of the scale by a half step, leaving the root and third the same. The
G now becomes a G#. The symbol for a C augmented triad can be C aug or C+.

Here are the augmented triads in all 12 keys. In the B augmented chord, you’ll see an x indicated before the top note.
This symbol is referred to as a double sharp and means that the note is raised by two half steps. In this particular
case the F would be raised to a G.
Diminished Triads
Our final alteration is called diminished. To build a diminished triad lower the third and the fifth degree of the scale by
a half step. The E now becomes Eb and the G becomes Gb. The symbol for a C diminished triad is either C dim or C o.
Here are the diminished triads in all 12 keys. Try them all on your keyboard. You’ll notice that within the last four
chords there are notes that have two flat signs in front of them. Those notes are to be lowered by two half steps.
Spend time practicing and learning the four types of triads major, minor, augmented, and diminished in
every key. Next time we’ll learn how triads can be played in several positions known as inversions.
Check out Ron’s Modern Drummer profile page

and get your copy of Snare Drum Duets at
moderndrummer.com
FUNK FUNDAMENTALS
Groove Concepts for Fusion-Funk Music

By Stephane Chamberland
Ibegan playing with the Carl Mayotte Fusion Quintet in 2018. We have recorded four albums since 2018 and have had the chance to
release a play along series for drum and bass with Hudson Music in 2023. Creating the charts was challenging but also an amazing
learning experience. In this article I want to share some of the grooves I play in the song “Cocotte” that is available on the Hudson
Music web site as a separated track, or the entire book available on the Hudson Music app. I think it’s a great idea if you want to use
these grooves as exercises. You can create form and also learn from the concepts to create your own grooves.
Orchestrating the melody on the toms

During the intro, I am orchestrating part of the melody on the toms in a way that will support the music and I am also adding some
ghost notes on the snare to create shapes. I was inspired by Dave Weckl for this one. You can actually move your hi-hat hand onto
the floor tom without changing the rhythms and it will make the groove sound bigger. You’ll notice my right hand is on the floor tom
and it’s the left hand only that is moving around the toms, keeping the snare on 2 and 4. I have written the groove as straight 16ths,
but we are going to swing the 16ths. This is a concept you can apply to many other grooves as well. You want to work this groove up
to 91 bpm but start slowly.
Opening the downbeats on the hi-hats

Another concept I used is opening the hi-hats on the downbeats when I play 8th notes. Don’t forget we are still swinging the 16th
notes. I was inspired by Dennis Chambers to do that and I always felt it brings a strong pulse to the groove. In this example we start
with a crash cymbal but make sure not to repeat it. Stay on the hi- hats
when you repeat. The bass drum here follows the bass guitar line and the
steady 2 and 4 on the snare makes a clear understanding of the feel. The
ghost notes are again added to make the beat funkier and add dynamics.
Compose a groove, open the hats on down beats and add ghost notes.
Magic!
Playing the left foot hi hats on upbeats

I like keeping my left foot hi-hat on the down beats, but in this song I shifted it to the upbeats to lift the music even more. You can
use both here. I can only do this when my hand is keeping time on the ride. If you want to insert some left foot hi-hats while keeping
time on it, it’s possible but it’s a totally different approach. In this case, by
putting the right hand on the ride, it frees my hi-hat for these variations.
You can splash the hi-hat like we did with the first groove or keep it closed
and tight. I put my foot far up on the plate to feel the pedal more and get
a tighter sound. When it comes to my cymbal choice, I used an 18” Sabian,
‘Ed Thigpen’ Signature ride for this track. Flat rides were more popular in the
90’s but l like to bring this sound back in my playing.
Adaptation is the key

Adapting is the key to your personal sound and expression. This is the step we fear to take sometimes but I encourage you to play
the song with my original groove to inspire you to create your own. In the book, you have a version with click, and one with no click,
to work on time and listening. Have fun!
From the book: The Ultimate Jazz Fusion Play-Along Drum Edition
The Music of Carl Mayotte, Song: “Cocotte.” Album: Pop de ville vol.1
Couresy of Hudson Music www.hudsonmusic.com www.stephanechamberland.com
Link to the track: https://hudsonmusic.com/product/cocotte-drums/
Link to the book: https://hudsonmusic.com/product/the-ultimate-jazz-fusion-play-along-for-drums/
Check out Stephane’s drummer profile page

at moderndrummer.com
COLLECTOR’S CORNER
HalBlaine’s 1950s Rogers “Constellation” Drum Set

By Donn Bennett
The set that started it all… literally defined rock and pop drumming drummer at a time when rock ’n roll
By now, studio drummer Hal Blaine’s in the 1960s and helped create the was erupting into the massive cultural
legend is pretty well known. He is soundtrack for entire generations of phenomenon it eventually became.
widely considered the most recorded music fans. Before long he was the most in demand
musician of all time. His extraordinarily Hal’s legendary rock drumming career drummer in Los Angeles and his
prolific career spanned four decades came about practically by accident. legendary career was kicking into high
from the the 1950s through the 1980s In the late 1950s he was establishing gear.
and produced an estimated 35,000 himself as a jazz drummer. He’d landed a During this pivotal period of Hal’s
recordings that included 6,000 singles, gig in a well-respected jazz combo when career, he played this late 1950’s Rogers
150 top 10 hits, 40 number one hits and he got a last minute invitation to join “Constellation” drum set. He purchased
six consecutive Grammy records of the rock ‘n roll singer, Tommy Sands’ band. the set during his tenure with Sands
year. He was so adept at crafting the Initially, Hal wasn’t interested. He was and continued playing it into the early
perfect drum part, that he was routinely happy with his jazz gig and had never stages of his rock and roll studio career.
asked to replace a band’s existing even tried playing rock. Eventually, the The set includes a 14 x 20 bass drum, 9
drummer when it came time to record, opportunity to record for a major label, x 13 mounted tom, 16 x 16 floor tom
for this he’s commonly referred to as tour the world, and a fat pay raise helped and a 5 x 14 snare drum with Rogers
“your ten favorite drummers”. change his mind. It was a wise move. As Eagle badges. The original 1950s
Hal passed in 2019. It’s impossible to a member of Tommy Sands’ band, Hal Remo Diplomat heads remain on the
express the magnitude of his legacy. He established himself as the “go-to” rock top and bottoms of the toms and on

the top of the snare. The bass drum In 1959 Bob Yeager opened the marked the beginning of Blaine’s
has calf skin heads on front and back. Hollywood Professional Drum Shop. relationship with Blaemire’s fiberglass
The drum is filled with about 6 inches The shop soon became the epicenter drums that would eventually lead to
of cut up squares of newspaper for of the Los Angeles area drum scene. the creation of his multi-tom fiberglass
muffling. Hal would continue to use Yeager employed an extremely gifted “Monster” drum set. The “Monster”
this combination of calfskin and cut and ambitious Allen Blaemire in his set would become the most recorded
up newsprint to achieve his signature repair department. Blaemire was instrument in the history of recorded
bass “thump” for most of his career. constantly tinkering with inventions music.
The drums are finished in a Sparkling that could be useful to drummers. By The Blue Sparkle Rogers set was
Blue Pearl wrapped finish with Rogers 1962, he had perfected a drum shell eventually retired and given to the
“Bread and Butter” lugs and early made from fiberglass that produced an son of Jack Nitzsche around 1965.
Swiv-O-Matic mounts. The bass and exceptionally deep and resonant tone. Jack Nitzsche was the legendary
toms are constructed of 3-ply wooden The drum was soon in high demand studio engineer who worked with Hal
shells with reinforcing rings and black amongst top Los Angeles drummers like on countless Phil Spector recording
painted interiors. The snare has a custom Earl Palmer, Joe Porcaro, and Hal Blaine. sessions. I acquired the set several years
fiberglass shell wrapped in Sparkling These three drummers were amongst a after Nitzsche’s passing in 2000.
Blue Pearl and Rogers hardware and is handful fortunate players who received
particularly notable in the evolution of one of these snares with an engraved
Hal’s drum set. “Custom Built” nameplate. This snare

OUT NOW!
M odern Drummer is spotlighting new recordings that have the drums at the
center of their sound. These recordings might be drummer-led, or just
include a high-quality, special, or a unique drumming and musical performance
from the drummer and/or musicians in the band. Out Now is not restricted to
only recordings, we will also be spotlighting new books and DVD’s that are being
released. We encourage our readers to listen to the recordings that inspire them
and keep looking for new musical avenues to explore. You’ll never know what new
music you might find inspiring! Listen and learn.
Larry Goldings, Peter Bernstein, Bill Stewart Brian Eisenberg Jazz Orchestra
Perpetual Pendulum Pain & Beauty
Bill Stewart drums Peter Erskine drums
Smoke Sessions Self-Produced
The trio of Larry Goldings, Composer-arranger Brian

Peter Bernstein, and Bill Eisenberg continues on his
Stewart is one of the longest musical journey with a fantastic
standing working bands in new big band recording. In the
jazz today. This band has been past Eisenberg has employed
together for almost 30 years drummer Vinnie Colaiuta to
and has more recordings frame his arrangements and
under their belt than you can compositions. This time around
count. On their recordings you the “framer” is Peter Erskine, and
can hear their history, and you the difference is an interesting
can hear the history of organ trio jazz. Stewart’s sense of swing, study in approach. Eisenberg
dynamics, and creativity is unending. This record includes is using some more modern
standards, originals, and jazz standards like Wayne Shorter’s approaches and textures on this record. The rhythm section
“United,” Gary Bartz’ “Libra,” and John Lewis’ “Django.” Their is (as always) strong and creative featuring guitarist Andrew
communication is telepathic, and their sense of exploration, Synowiec, pianist Christian Jacob,, bassist Trey Henry, Erskine,
groove, and joy is contagious. This trio and this record are both and vibraphonist Brad Dutz. The inclusion of the vibraphone is
like a Perpetual Pendulum, it just keeps swinging! notable one because it adds and interesting voice to Eisenberg’s
musical palette with single lines and harmony. Synowiec is a
guitarist that I’m sure we’ll be hearing much more about. And
Dom Palombi Trey Henry and Erskine create a perfect foundation for these
Game Night beautiful, dense, and adventurous charts. As always, Erskine
Dom Palombi drums turns up the heat where appropriate, simmers when needed, and
Self-produced cools when required. He is a master at work. Eisenberg spreads
the solos around democratically and uses every sound and
For years, bands have looked musical texture at his disposal. This is a GREAT record!
to jazz and rock “standards”
to perform with their bands.
Beginning in the early Jon Cowherd Trio
2000s, video game music Pride & Joy
started to get very serious, Brian Blade drums
now it is becoming popular. Alex Acuna percussion (3 tracks)
Musicians are starting to look Le Coq Records
to “video game composers”
for a new repertoire, and why not? If musicians can perform There are very few drum and bass
the themes from movies and TV shows, why not video games combos that a leader can call that
as well? Composers like Yasunori Mitsuda, Martin ‘O Donnell, are on the level of John Pattitucci
and Daisuke Ishiwatari are serious composers. Therefore, and Brian Blade. The telepathy,
when drummer Dom Palombi sent us his new CD Game Night, the sympathy, and just the overall
consisting entirely of video game music, I was intrigued. Firstly, agreement on where the music is
I am NOT a gamer! But this music is interesting, it is often very going is a joy to hear, every time!
melodic, filled with melodic counterpoint, and very rhythmic. Pianist Jon Cowherd and Blade
Palombi and his band do the music a real service by treating it also have a close and longtime
with respect and making it an enjoyable addition to modern relationship, and all of the trio’s
repertoire. The concept is cool, the playing and arranging is familiarity is on full display on
creative, and Dom’s drumming is top notch. What more could Pride & Joy. The trio becomes a quintet on three tracks adding
you ask for? percussionist Alex Acuna and saxophonist Chris Potter (who both

shine on the title track.) Pride & Joy doesn’t ever get too “out.” It’s a Jorge Rossy
firmly grounded record. The musical camaraderie combined with Puerta
the earthy feel of Cowherd’s new home in Colorado and his old Jeff Ballard drums
home of Kentucky. Cowherd paints a beautiful musical picture Jorge Rossy vibraphone and marimba
paying tribute to pianists Ellis Marsalis, Bill Evans, and Chick Corea. ECM
You don’t hear many vibraphone

Sanah Kadoura trios. Jorge Rossy is a talented
Duality musician who broke on the
Sanah Kadoura drums jazz scene as the drummer in
Self-Produced Brad Meldau’s trio. That chair
eventually became occupied by
Lebanese-Canadian drummer drummer Jeff Ballard. Now, Rossy
Sanah Kadoura is now in New and Ballard have united to create
York City and taking the city a unique record called Puerta. The
by storm. Her record Duality recording is an amazing stereo
displays her strong composing document where you can hear Rossy’s mallets moving across the
and drumming skills. She has stereo spectrum (left to right) as if you were sitting right in front
the sound and approach of a of him. Ballard always creates unique and beautiful drum and
veteran. Her music lives in the modern place somewhere between percussion sounds, and to have them recorded by the people at
adventuresome swing, globally influenced hip-hop, and well ECM is a treat. The music is airy and explorative, and different in
composed rock and pop. She is a new millennium musician to be all the best ways. Fans of the music or the just the sound of vibes
sure. Her shuffle on “Interlude & Old Friends” is a welcome shot and marimba will love this contemplative record.
in the arm, “The Seer, The Soarer” and “Hidden Figures” all have a
nice feel, and the Middle Eastern flavor of “Zaytcon” is a change.
Saxophonist Stacy Dillard shines throughout. Selections from Vital Information Time Flies
Manuel Valera and Steve Smith
Self-Published Book
John Favicchia
Tangible There is a wonderful new
John Favicchia drums trend in drumming and
Self-Produced music. Drummers like Billy
Cobham, Terri Lyne Carrington,
Longtime fusion drummer and now Steve Smith are
John Favicchia has put out a printing and releasing books
lot of recordings and drum of the compositions and
instructional books. His new CD arrangements of music that
Tangible collects songs from his they have recorded (or are
two bands Kukuc and Dharma recording.) I hope more
as well as some Solo Drum musicians follow suit. Smith’s
Improvisations all in one place in a “tangible” form. Favicchia’s latest record Time Flies is
drumming is slick and very well-articulated. His drumming an outstanding recording
approach is a wonderful mix of progressive rock and classic of a trio that has very few
80’s fusion. His compositions are interesting suites of musical comparisons. The trio plays
virtuosity and complexity. Faviccia is a talented drummer that we a new arrangement of Bud Powell’s “Un Poco Loco,” highly
should hear more about and deserves more attention. personalized arrangements of “Darn That Dream” and “What
is This Thing…” as well as the powerful Tony Williams Lifetime
influenced “Emergence.” And thankfully, six of the compositions
David Whitman and arrangements from “Time Flies” are in this book for people
Oh, Hugo to play. This is college level lead sheets (not drum transcriptions)
David Whitman drums for groups to play. (In fact) Valera who teaches jazz at NYU,
Self-Produced is having his students learn and play these songs and
arrangements. However, with the help of the recordings, any
Drummer David Whitman has skilled musician with above average reading skills could play or
delivered a beautiful sounding (at least) read along with these tunes. Drummers can finally see
record. Whitman’s wispy drums the music that Smith is playing when we hear him on record or
melt into his large group who is on stage, giving us a greater insight to why and what he plays.
playing an entire set of Andrew
Neesley compositions. The tunes
and the arrangements create a
nice landscape for the musicians. Members of the band include
veteran’s pianists Geoff Keezer and guitarist Bruce Forman.

EYE CANDY
Joe Morello’s Maple Ludwigs
T his Ludwig five-piece sliver sparkle maple drum kit

(14x22, 9x13, 16x16, 16x18, and 5.5x14 Hammered
Bronze Snare) was owned and played by Joe Morello for
many years. David Frangioni studied with Joe in the 80’s
and they became very close. David looked up to him as a
mentor, educator, and a friend.
David, who was already a collector, had asked Joe if he
had any stage played drum kits that he would consider
parting with. Out of friendship, Joe offered to sell this
kit to David. As David was a working musician and a
teenager (i.e. broke) he asked his mom (Rita) if she would
lend him the money to buy him the kit.
David treasured the kit for many years but regrettably
sold it to make room during a move to in the mid- 2000s.
Fast-forward to the 2018 Chicago Drum Show. Thinking
that he would never be reunited with the drumkit,
David saw the drum set for sale at one of the booths,
and could not believe what he was seeing. Of course,
David immediately purchased the kit. During the time
that David did not own the kit, the heads were signed
by some of the Ludwig family. The snare was signed by
Joe Morello for David in person. This kit is featured at the
Modern Drummer Museum Hall Of Fame in Florida.

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STAGE READY

WITH FULL SIZE SHELLS

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The secret of the best

MARCELO NOVATI CARTER MCLEAN ASH SOAN

The sound of yesterday.....

30 JOE FARNSWORTH 42 LOUIE PALMER 52 LAURA DONELAN

60 ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC

66 JAZZ DRUMMERS WORKSHOP

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Embrace Change Founder Ronald Spagnardi 1943–2003

Publisher/CEO David Frangioni

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@ModernDrummer modern_drummer @modern_drummer

4 Modern Drummer August 2023

Patience Pays Off!

T his month’s Modern

6 Modern Drummer August 2023

8 Modern Drummer August 2023

See this duet performance at

Check out Peter’s

Modern Drummer August 2023 9

Sam Smith, The 1975, Interpol,

Long-time P&D user, Ginger Hamilton, is playing with

ProMark Drumsticks Releases Innovative

10 Modern Drummer August 2023

2023 Chicago Drum Show: The Drummers Family Reunion!

T he Chicago Drum Show, now in its 32nd year, returned to the

12 Modern Drummer August 2023

Modern Drummer August 2023 13

DW’s Alex Gonzalez Collectors Series Icon Snare Drum

14 Modern Drummer August 2023

Modern Drummer August 2023 15

Latin Percussion Single Brass Timbales

L atin Percussion (LP) has been around

16 Modern Drummer August 2023

Modern Drummer August 2023 17

Mountain vs. Machine

A s you walk in drummer Shannon Larkin’s

Modern Drummer August 2023 19

20 Modern Drummer August 2023

to sit around and watch TV all night.

Modern Drummer August 2023 21

would always come out and to when I was a kid. That is

22 Modern Drummer August 2023

Yamaha Drums Godsmack records and tours.

Modern Drummer August 2023 23

24 Modern Drummer August 2023

Modern Drummer August 2023 25

26 Modern Drummer August 2023

Modern Drummer August 2023 27

somebody. I came out of

28 Modern Drummer August 2023

I tell drum students this all of the time. If you become

accepting his role as jazz elder statesman. He was

30 Modern Drummer August 2023

32 Modern Drummer August 2023

Jimmy and Dena Katz

Modern Drummer August 2023 33