Modern Drummer 01 2021

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Volume 45 • Number 1
CONTENTS Cover photo by Daniel Prakopcyk

Contents photos by Antoine Sanfuentes
ON THE COVER
16 STEVE JORDAN
In a new setting featuring just
one other musical compadre, the
iconic drummer has handed us a
near-perfect sampler of his many
drumming gifts. by Ken Micallef
8 DARU JONES 32 THE KILLERS’ 42 NICK MASON 54 SAVANNAH HARRIS

A new drums-and-MC RONNIE VANNUCCI JR. A live album by his new She’s all over the jazz, avant-
collaboration puts the His secret to drumming Saucerful of Secrets band garde, and crossover scenes,
attention on the drummer’s greatness: passion plus provides a good opportunity from Kenny Barron to the
river-deep, old-school hip- musicality. to catch up with Pink Floyd’s hip-hop collective Standing
hop grooves. by Ilya Stemkovsky sticksman. on the Corner.
by Ilya Stemkovsky by Adam Budofsky by Keith Carne
38 STAN LYNCH
26 JUSTIN TYSON It’s been thirty years since 48 REASONS TO LOVE
He’s commanded our the beloved drummer BILL BRUFORD, PART 2
attention with Herbie recorded with Tom Petty In the second half of his
Hancock, Robert Glasper, and the Heartbreakers. Fans career, the former Yes and
Esperanza Spalding, and so again have good reason to King Crimson drummer
many others. celebrate. by Patrick Berkery continued to satiate his
by Savannah Harris appetite for new sensations.
by Will Romano
LESSONS
62 STYLE AND ANALYSIS
Todd Sucherman: A Smattering of Hits Outside the Prog-Rock Sphere of Styx by Terry Branam
Eric Dorris
71 CONCEPTS
Individuality, Part 1: Where Did It Go? by Russ Miller
72 STRICTLY TECHNIQUE
Coordinating the Body: Exercises for Better Alignment by Steven Crammer
74 JAZZ DRUMMER’S WORKSHOP

Get on the Good Foot! Part 3: Hi-Hat Comping in 5/4 by Steve Fidyk
76 FIRST PERSON
Terry Bozzio Interviews Nick Mason of Pink Floyd: “Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun”
by Don Lombardi
EQUIPMENT
10 PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
Roland V-Drums Acoustic Design VAD506 Kit
Doc Sweeney Pure Series Snare Drums
Attack Drumheads The Baron Red-Dot Batter
58 IN THE STUDIO
Wes Little
78 NEW AND NOTABLE
DEPARTMENTS
4 AN EDITOR’S OVERVIEW 82 CRITIQUE
Be a Dreamer, and Don’t Stop Believing New releases by Jon Anderson,
by Billy Amendola Adam Nussbaum, and more
6 READERS’ PLATFORM 86 BOOKINGS

Single-Headed Toms: Cool or Not? Liberty DeVitto’s Life, Billy and the Pursuit
of Happiness
81 KIT OF THE MONTH
“Color Toys” 90 BACK THROUGH THE STACK
Max Roach, June 1982
AN EDITOR’S OVERVIEW
Be a Dreamer, and Founder Ronald Spagnardi 1943–2003
Co-Founder Isabel Spagnardi
Don’t Stop Believing Publisher/CEO David Frangioni
CFO Carolina Frangioni
I hope all is as well as can be for you in these still
uncertain times. Since my last editorial, the world
has gone a bit nutty, and we’ve all been going
CMO/CRO Tony Terani
COO Santiago Cortés
through some changes, frustrations, and fears.
Managing Director/SVP David Hakim
We all know by now as we head into a new year
that music, the arts, and many businesses in general Associate Publisher Tracy A. Kearns
have been hit hard by the pandemic. We need to Senior Art Director Scott G. Bienstock
keep reminding ourselves to stay positive—and
Managing Editor Michael Dawson
to thank our frontline essential workers! On the
bright side, virtual lessons and recordings took off. Editor at Large Billy Amendola
Musicians are learning to run their own studios. The pandemic has also given us Digital Marketing Manager Ricardo Rodriguez
more time to practice our instrument or learn an additional skill. I have friends
Worldwide Education Dom Famularo
who are usually out two hundred days a year touring, and for the first time in ages
they’re enjoying time with their families. Most are also adapting to playing music Director of Special Projects Nic Kubes
virtually.
THE MD PRO PANEL/ADVISORY BOARD: Chris Adler, Kenny Aronoff,
But many of us who make our living playing music, whether it be in bars or in
Eddie Bayers, Gregg Bissonette, Jason Bittner, Bill Bruford, Will Calhoun,
arenas, are experiencing hard times. At the same time, there are injustices and Terri Lyne Carrington, Matt Chamberlain, Peter Erskine, Daniel Glass,
problems in the world, and the future is unclear. But I’m hopeful that by the time Benny Greb, Matt Halpern, Horacio Hernandez, Gerald Heyward, Taku Hirano,
you read this, we’re on the other side of some of it and on our way to a brighter Susie Ibarra, Jim Keltner, Paul Leim, Peter Magadini, George Marsh,
future. As horrible as 2020 was for the world, it’d all be worth it if we could learn to Pat Mastelotto, Allison Miller, Rod Morgenstein, Andy Newmark,
live together in 2021 with peace and love. Yes, I’m a dreamer. Don’t stop believing. Stephen Perkins, Dafnis Prieto, Rich Redmond, Brian Reitzell, Jim Riley,
Okay, enough on that for now. Let’s dig into the new issue, with the illustrious Antonio Sanchez, Gil Sharone, Chad Smith, Steve Smith, Todd Sucherman,
Billy Ward, Kenny Washington, Dave Weckl, Paul Wertico
Steve Jordan. Steve is no stranger to our cover, having graced it a few times over
the many years of his successful career. Steve is a songwriter, a bandleader, a CONTRIBUTING WRITERS: Email: [email protected].
producer, and a first-call touring and session drummer. He’s also half of the Verbs, Patrick Berkery, Stephen Bidwell,
Keith Carne, David Ciauro, John Colpitts, MODERN DRUMMER welcomes
a duo he started with his wife, Meegan Voss. I’ve been a fan since their debut Bob Girouard, Mike Haid, John Martinez, manuscripts and photos but cannot
album, And Now…The Verbs, was released in 2006. I recently spoke to Meegan Ben Meyer, Ken Micallef, Jeff Potter, assume responsibility for them.
Will Romano, Ilya Stemkovsky,
about the duo working together. “Playing with Steve in the Verbs is a blast,” she Lauren Vogel Weiss, Paul Wells. SUBSCRIPTION CORRESPONDENCE:
said. “We have nothing but fun—that’s why it’s called ‘playing’ music, right? It’s an Modern Drummer, 315 Ridgedale Ave
MODERN DRUMMER magazine #478 East Hanover, NJ 07936. Change
aspect of Steve’s career where he gets to do anything with sound, recording, and
(ISSN 0194-4533) is published monthly of address: Allow at least six weeks for
music he likes. It’s different from when he’s working for someone who must satisfy by MODERN DRUMMER Publications, a change. Please provide both old and
an agenda. As a musician, he always makes me sound better. And he’s so positive. Inc., 315 Ridgedale Ave #478 East new address. Call 973-239-4140 Phone
Hanover, NJ 07936. PERIODICALS hours, 9–5 EST Monday–Friday,
That’s one of the first things I heard and felt playing with Steve. I think the reason MAIL POSTAGE paid at Fairfield, NJ or visit www.moderndrummer.com.
he’s that upbeat is that he absolutely loves music, musicians, and playing. So to 07004 and at additional mailing offices.
Copyright 2020 by MODERN DRUMMER POSTMASTER: Send address changes
him, every opportunity to play is fun.” Publications, Inc. All rights reserved. to Modern Drummer, 315 Ridgedale Ave
Also in this issue we feature Justin Tyson, who you may have heard playing with Reproduction without the permission of the #478 East Hanover, NJ 07936.
Robert Glasper, Herbie Hancock, Now Vs. Now, or any number of other cutting- publisher is prohibited.
Canadian Publications Mail Agreement
edge situations. We also catch up with the Killers’ Ronnie Vannucci, Daru Jones, EDITORIAL/ADVERTISING/ No. 41480017 Return undeliverable
Todd Sucherman, Stan Lynch, Liberty DeVitto, and more. ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: Canadian addresses to: PO Box 875, Stn A,
MODERN DRUMMER Publications, Windsor ON N9A 6P2
Thanks once again to everyone who supported the 2020 Modern Drummer 315 Ridgedale Ave #478 East Hanover, NJ
Festival and Tribute to Neil Peart. We also appreciate the support of you, our 07936. Tel: 973-239-4140. MEMBER: National Association of Music
Merchants, Percussive Arts Society
readers. I know we remind you constantly to subscribe, and now more than ever
it’s very much appreciated. Plus it’s the only way you won’t miss a beat and get MODERN DRUMMER SUBSCRIPTIONS:
the best deals and extra bonus material we offer. Digital $4.99 Monthly – Get the monthly mag digitally + instant time machine access to
45 yrs of MD issues & articles for just $4.99 per month with no contract.
Enjoy the issue. In closing I’ll say, “Happy new year!” Keep believing things will
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MODERN DRUMMER ONLINE: www.moderndrummer.com
PRINTED IN THE UNITED STATES
Billy Amendola
Editor at Large Music Key
@ModernDrummer modern_drummer @modern_drummer
4 Modern Drummer January 2021

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READERS’ PLATFORM
Single-Headed Toms: Cool or Not?
Very cool, bring them back! I don’t really like their sound because “my Absolutely cool (Hal Blaine, Phil
Lorenzo Rosmini sound” is focused mostly on tuning the Collins…).
resonant head, but these are cool. @ananiagram_official
I greatly prefer single-headed drums. @spaghetti_band_sardegna
Pete Wilson Even bad things come back around.
100% cool. @madjohn608
They provide that classic bark! Dustin Robert
@welafever I am in the middle. Concert toms can
For sure! be very cool, but I will always prefer
The coolest! Eloy Casagrande traditional.
Pete Bultitude Adam Webster
Absolutely! I love my Premier concert-
I’m adding 8", 10", and 12" concert toms tom kit! Way cool. Obviously.
to add some high-end crack to my 13", Tim Meritzis Chase Gouthro
16", and 18" double-headed toms.
Chris Sousie They sound like cardboard boxes. Very cool, easier to tune too, LOL.
@tfobvdrums Adrian Walker II
Cool. I’d love to add a few high concert toms.
Bruce Hewat So. Cool. Always cool!
Trevor Hogan Jake Burton
Totally cool—Joey Waronker style!
Florian Tiefenbacher God no, never were. Drum sounds from the ’80s should
Bret Dorton stay in the ’80s.
Cool when appropriately tuned. @panda.nurse
@nashstuff71 Couldn’t get cooler.
David Hale They have their uses for sure. I prefer
They can sound really good in the hands closed toms, though.
of the right person. Look cool. Sound crappy. Blaze Infernus
Björn Nilsson Jeff Clayton
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Daru Jones
We last heard from
him when he was
backing Jack White,
a rock icon with a
deep appreciation
for hip-hop. The
drummer’s latest
project is pure beats-
n-rhymes, with a
rock-hard soul.
F or certain drummers, it’s all about playing with a wide variety

of artists. Daru Jones has that angle covered, laying it down for
everyone from Jack White to Gloria Gaynor to Queen Latifah. When
off the road, he busies himself with the Get It Started livestream,
where he and guests discuss industry topics and share insights. And
he’s a boutique label owner, developing talent and releasing music.
But Jones’ rep as one of the go-to hip-hop drummers means
his grooves are sought after by rappers looking for that authentic
sound. A producer himself, Jones has a wealth of knowledge
when it comes to composing drum parts for hip-hop projects,
and his funky breaks can be found all over One Mic & Drum, a new
collaboration between the Brooklyn/Nashville-based drummer
and Bobby J From Rockaway, a Queens-based MC who delivers the
goods in the form of gritty rhymes. One Mic & Drum is raw, organic,
and a real education of rap music’s past, with enough modern
flourishes to keep things firmly in the present.

MD: What was some of the first hip-hop where you really noticed modern breaks. I played with Slum Village, a group J Dilla was in.
the rhythms and programming? And for Bobby it was nothing, because he loves Dilla and that vibe,
Daru: I guess when a lot of producers sampled the Bob James so it was easy for him to rhyme on top of that.
“Nautilus” track. I remember hearing that on Ghostface Killah’s MD: How did you develop your internal clock for pulling those
“Daytona 500.” I’m a huge Bob James fan because of all the stuttering beats off?
musicians he had on those records. “Nautilus” had Idris Muhammad Daru: I’m a producer. So that worked out in my favor. When I
on drums. And also the Public Enemy records that were using the became a hip-hop drummer, people would say, “Daru is going to
James Brown breaks with Clyde and Jabo. learn your music just like the track.” So like I said, you are what you
MD: Were you trying to incorporate that kind of stuff into your own eat, so if I listened to a lot of Dilla, it was second nature. And those
playing right away? Or were you just enjoying it from an outsider’s feels are my vibe, something I developed to expand that Dilla
standpoint? vocabulary.
Daru: Just enjoying it. It just worked out that I was a drummer. It MD: Where does hip-hop go? And the live accompaniment to it?
wasn’t until later on in my career that I would evolve from jazz and Daru: Things come full circle. Where the industry is right now, hip-
fusion and gospel drumming to being a hip-hop drummer. And hop is mainstream. A lot of people are trying to pay their bills. So
Questlove was the first live drummer I saw in that type of setting, the guys making the money are the guys producing trap [Southern-
with the Roots. You are what you eat, and you are what you listen style hip-hop genre]. But you have to keep reinventing yourself.
to. So I listened to a lot of hip-hop, and eventually I started
becoming a go-to drummer for hip-hop.
MD: Besides having a knowledge of styles and eras, what
were you referencing when composing the various beats for
One Mic & Drum?
Daru: One of the interludes referenced MC Lyte’s “Paper
Thin” and another thing from A Tribe Called Quest’s Low
End Theory album. And all the pioneer hip-hop producers
like Pete Rock, J Dilla, DJ Premier, RZA, the Bomb Squad,
Easy Mo Bee, Q-Tip, and Dr. Dre. But a lot of it was just me
jamming, and then Bobby would say he had some lyrics.
And sometimes I’d have to match up what I was playing to
go along with what he was doing.
MD: There are lots of nice production touches on the record,
with different kick sounds and varying timbres. Did the
sound or the pattern come to you first?
Daru: There were only a couple of different tuning
variations, and on the tunes where the snare sounds
different, I used the Big Fat Snare Drum [muffler]. But the
engineer did such a great job.
MD: The “Break N’ Lude” tracks give you a little room to lay
down your versions of breaks. Did you improvise those at
all?
Daru: Basically I was just jamming, just soundchecking,
playing different grooves for the engineer. And we ended
up using all those things, and chopped them up into those
interludes. It was all organic, all on the spot, in under two
hours.
MD: How do you approach mixing your rhythm with that of
a very busy lyrical flow? It would seem like you would have
to play more open and simply.
Daru: Back in the ’90s it was about freestyling over a simple
beat. The DJ would loop a beat, and the MC would just go crazy. So This One Mic & Drum project is an educational project for young
it makes you play less, just keep the pocket, and I let Bobby be the people who didn’t grow up in the ’90s. That whole boom-bap,
instrument. We just fit like a glove; it was a great marriage. pocket thing. I’m like a percussion drummer. Some of my drums
MD: A track like “Flow Like Dis” has an almost industrial quality but are tuned low, and some are tuned high. And with the Dilla
sounds perfect accompanying rapping. Is it fun to mix things from influence, we’re taking it to another level because we’re playing it
all kinds of music? live. It’s not being composed. So hopefully this project inspires the
Daru: That particular track was inspired by an Erik B. and Rakim next generation to go back to the essence of that powerful loop.
track. We wanted to do something at a faster tempo, because a lot Everything under the sun has been done. So I’m recycling what’s
of today’s music is slow tempo. That was actually the first track we been done but adding some new layers and pushing things forward.
recorded for the session. Ilya Stemkovsky
MD: Talk about playing crooked, Dilla-style beats beneath rapping.
Daru: The whole concept was to pay tribute to the early forms of Daru Jones plays DW drums and Paiste cymbals and uses Ahead
hip-hop where it was a drum break with the MC, but how many sticks.
times do you want to hear “Funky Drummer”? I wanted to make
January 2021 Modern Drummer 9

PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
Roland Play
V-Drums Acoustic Design VAD506 Kit

The ultimate immersive e-drums experience.
C an you believe it’s taken forty-plus years for an electronic drumset

to emerge that looks and feels nearly identical to an acoustic kit?
Well, the time has come, folks. Roland’s new Acoustic Design series of
V-Drums marries a full acoustic drumset playing experience with the
convenience, customization, and control of electronics.
There are currently two Acoustic Design setups with full-sized
shells available. The VAD503 is a four-piece kit with two cymbals
(crash and ride) and a hi-hat. The VAD506, which we have for review, is
a five-piece configuration with two crashes, a ride, and a hi-hat. Both
kits come with the intuitive and powerful TD-27 module, a
full set of Roland’s new double-braced cymbal/tom stands, and a
snare stand.
Tech Specs
The VAD506 toms and bass drum are made with full-size wood shells
and are outfitted with custom chrome lugs and a Midnight Sparkle
wrap. The sizes include 7x10 and 8x12 rack toms, a 14x14 floor tom,
and a 16x20 bass drum. The snare has a stainless-steel shell and
measures 4.3x14.
The cymbal pads are a 12" hi-hat, 14" and 16" crashes, and an 18"
ride. The 14" snare and 18" ride, which connect to the module via
USB rather than traditional TSLR 1/4" cables, feature high-resolution,
multisensor triggering technology that results in realistic dynamic
and positional response. The hi-hat and 14" and 16" crash pads are
40-percent thinner than on previous V-Drums kits, which gives them
an authentic feel with more flex and sway when struck.
The VAD snare and toms come with Roland’s patented 3-ply mesh
heads. These heads have a more realistic rebound than other mesh
heads, and they can be tuned easily to dial in the desired firmness or
softness. The bass drum incorporates the advanced sensors from the
KD-220 kick from the TD-50KVX set within a 16x20 shell. Roland also
developed some air-dampening mechanics, which produce a similar
beater resistance to striking an acoustic bass drum. With my eyes
closed, I couldn’t tell the difference between playing the VAD kick and
my acoustic 20" drum, even when burying the beater or when using a
double pedal.
Goodbye, Drum Rack!

As a lifelong acoustic drummer who’s had to set up electronic kits
many times over the years, I can’t stress enough how excited I was sensors in the pads remain properly positioned for optimal response.
to see that the VAD506 kit came with standard cymbal stands and The hi-hat pad and controller fit onto any standard hi-hat stand and
drum mounts, rather than an awkward, multipiece tube rack. As a operate much like acoustic cymbals. If you use a super-light stand,
result, setting up the VAD506 kit took no longer than it does with an you might have to tighten the pedal spring tension to prevent a
acoustic kit, and I was able to configure it to the same heights and sluggish response. But other than that, you can play the VAD506 hi-
distances as a studio set. This made for a very comfortable transition hat pad with the same hand and foot technique that you would on an
from my acoustic kit to the VAD506. The double-braced cymbal acoustic set.
stands and tom arms also felt very sturdy and durable, so I could play
with the same intensity as I do on acoustic drums without worrying The TD-27 Module
about the drums or cymbals drooping out of place. We covered the TD-27 module in an earlier review of the TD-27KV kit,
The thinner V-Cymbals attach to the stands with a special pivot so we won’t go too deeply into its features here. But it’s important to
mount, which allows the pads to swing naturally when struck while note that this module is super intuitive and easy to navigate without
also preventing them from rotating. This ensures that the trigger sacrificing features or flexibility. Nestled in the fifty presets is a wide

range of high-quality drum, percussion, and cymbal samples of designed to give the VAD506 maximum playing comfort and sonic
modern, vintage, and electronic instruments. customization. Factor in those technologies with the TD-27’s ability to
Roland developed what it calls “Prismatic Sound Modeling,” which load WAV samples, loops, and tracks from an SD card and assign them
gives the samples in the TD-27 an air of realism that responds slightly to any of the pads, and you have yourself a powerful, flexible, and
differently depending on how and where the pads are struck. You can simple module with endless creative possibilities. Oh, it has Bluetooth
also tweak the sound of each drum within the module by virtually connectivity, too, so you can jam along to anything you want from
swapping drumheads, adjusting the tuning, applying different types your cellphone, tablet, or computer.
of dampening, or applying different effects, such as EQ, compression, We could go on and on about all the cool stuff the VAD506
reverb, delay, distortion, transient designer, and more. V-Drums kit can do, whether for practice, performance, or recording,
Another technology that Roland incorporates into this kit is but you should check it out for yourself whenever you get a chance.
“PureAcoustic Ambience technology,” which puts whichever kit you Also, be sure to watch our demo video at moderndrummer.com.
are using within a realistic sound field that can then be modified by Michael Dawson
adjusting mic placement and room response. All of these features are

PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
Doc Sweeney
Pure Series Snare Drums
Three solid-shell snares designed to let the timber speak for itself.
T he last time we checked in with Rancho Santa Fe, California–

based boutique brand Doc Sweeney was in the May 2020 issue,
when we reviewed the gorgeous 1920s-inspired Classic series
bottom heads were standard Ambassador Hazy Snare Side models.
Hardware includes proprietary chrome-over-brass single-
point round lugs and Slingerland-style triple-flange hoops with
5.5x14 solid-shell maple and mahogany snares. an inward-facing upper flange. The throw-off is Doc Sweeney’s
This month we got our hands on three more solid-shell options, custom DS1, which is milled from aluminum and stainless steel and
also 5.5x14, but made from ash, oak, and elm. While the Classic features an in-line shift design with three positions that allow you
series drums are made to replicate, and possibly improve upon, to lock the wires at tight, medium, or loose tensions. This throw-off
the highly coveted dark, dry tones of vintage drums, these three operates smoothly and holds tension very well. It’s also designed to
snares—categorized as the Pure series—are meant to express the incorporate the look of the round lugs, which give the drums a very
utmost tone and performance from a single-species shell. Let’s put slick, cohesive appearance.
them to the test.
Pure Ash
Commonalities The Pure Ash was the most all-purpose-sounding of the three drums
Aside from the wood species being used, all three Pure series snares in the series. It had a full, open, warm voice with clean, balanced
are identical. The shells are steam-bent from a single plank to 5.5x14 overtones, similar to what you get from maple. But it was a bit more
cylinders. The bearing edges are cut to 45 degrees and are shaped controlled and punchy, which recalls the denser timbre of birch.
to a rounded apex. This profile allows for incredible sensitivity and If you are searching for a jack-of-all-trades snare drum, I’d put
response while also maintaining solid head-to-shell contact for the Pure Ash at the top of the list. You can crank it up for extra snap
impeccable tone. and pop, tune it in the middle register for full, dense backbeats, or
To keep the drum as resonant and tonally pure as possible, Doc detune it for old-school thump. I preferred to run this drum wide-
Sweeney forgoes gluing in reinforcement rings. Instead, these shells open; the overtones were just too pleasing to deaden with tape or
are shaped using an advanced milling technique that creates thicker gels. But if the circumstance demands it, this drum takes to muffling
integrated rings at the edge to support the head and keep the very well. Plus, the lightly finished ash shell is just downright
drum round, as well as a thinner shell wall to enhance sustain and gorgeous.
expressivity.
These drums came with Remo Diplomat Skyntone batter heads, Pure Oak
which are made from a thin 5-mil film laminated to a 3-mil polyspun While not drastically different from the others, which is a testament
fiber and are designed to have a warm tone and soft attack. The to Doc Sweeney’s consistency and quality control, the Pure Oak
Bonus digital
content #1
Play
Pure Ash

Bonus digital
content #2
Play
Pure Oak
Bonus digital
content #3
Play
Pure Elm
snare had the driest tone and most cracking attack of the bunch. could easily be a go-to for everything from jazz to symphonic, pop,
As a result, it handled low tuning exceptionally well; the overtones rock, or all-around studio use. But there’s some extra movement
died down before they had a chance to become overwhelming. And in the overtones of this shell that helps the drum poke through
it performed flawlessly under close mics, especially when recording the mix just a little bit. The closest sonic comparison I could come
tracks that needed a snare that hit hard—but not aggressively—and up with for this Elm shell is the dry but vibrant tone of seamless
didn’t take up too much width in the mix. I’ve become a big fan of aluminum. I use aluminum snares about 75 percent of the time,
oak snares in recent years for their ability to punch yet blend in any both for live gigs and studio sessions, because they’re incredibly
situation, and this Pure series version is one of the best there is. versatile and malleable for different sounds and styles. With this
Pure Elm drum by Doc Sweeney by my side, I’ve found a perfect
Pure Elm wood-shell counterpart.
If you’re looking for a snare with a little more character, Doc Check out demos of the full tuning ranges of these three snares at
Sweeney’s Pure Elm is guaranteed to grab your ear. Again, it’s not a moderndrummer.com.
specialty drum designed for just one or two applications. In fact, it Michael Dawson

PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
Attack Drumheads
The Baron Red-Dot Batter
A durable, easy-to-tune option with just the right amount of
built-in dampening.
A ttack Drumheads has been around since the ’80s, under different ownership. In October 2018,
the brand was acquired by Cardinal Percussion of Youngstown, Ohio.
This was my first time playing Attack heads, and I received our demo model from Neuron
Percussion, the exclusive distributor for the brand in my native New Zealand. The representative at
Neuron described a few innovative features of Attack drumheads. One is the pressure-fitted, glue-
less steel locking collar, which is said to make for a louder and more open tone. While the heads are
made in Taiwan, all of Attack’s coated models use Dura-Coat material that is manufactured in the
USA. Attack’s Baron model utilizes a DynaFlex polyester film, as opposed to the Mylar S material
used on its Royal series.
What Is It?
The Baron is a single-ply, coated, 10-mil snare batter head. It features an uncoated red dot on top
and a small “no overtone” ring fixed underneath. The combination of the underside dampening and
the topside dot indicated to me that this drumhead is designed for no-nonsense backbeat playing.
The Initial Seating

I used a 5x14 Ludwig Supraphonic for this test, as it’s the drum I know best and has a wide tuning
range. After making sure the bottom head and wires were tensioned to my liking, I turned my
attention to the Baron. The first thing I noticed was that the head fit to the bearing edge like a
glove and sat in place almost as if it were magnetized. I assume this is due to the pressure-fitted
steel hoop. Whatever the reason, the Baron had a snug yet comfortable fit from the get-go.
Tuning It Up
For the initial tuning, I wanted to get a general feel for the Baron in a real-world situation by
installing it quickly and seeing if I could achieve a usable sound with minimal effort (and no tuning
devices).
I first made sure to get all the lugs tensioned finger-tight. At this stage, with no tension, I like to
hear what a drum sounds like. It sounded fantastic! I could definitely see utilizing this head at an
extremely low tuning for recording.
As I tensioned the Baron throughout its tuning range, I made sure to stop and play the drum
after each turn of the rods. The tuning adjustments became more incremental as the pitch got
higher, and each elicited a nice, usable tone.
How’s It Sound?
I recorded the Baron at every tuning with a close mic (Shure SM57) and a room mic (AKG C214) to
ensure that my ears weren’t deceiving me in the moment. As I marvelled at the sound of the drum
throughout the tuning range, I came to the conclusion that the secret sauce has to be the “no
overtone” dampening ring on the underside of the Baron. The head indeed had no overtones, but
it did have a ton of tone. Also, the snare wires were super crisp, and the head’s response was very
consistent and pleasing.
The tuning stability and full tone that the Baron exhibited at low tension is likely due to the snug,
glue-less hoop. As I moved up to medium-high and high tunings, the drum began to sing. The
Baron produced a tight, full-bodied crack while still having plenty of sensitivity for ghost notes and
drags.
After testing the Baron, I concluded that it’s a near-perfect and easy-to-tune drumhead that’s
ideal for modern backbeat-centric applications. This head achieves the sounds I enjoy, and no extra
muffling was required. Outfitted with the Baron, my trusty Supraphonic couldn’t have been any
easier to tune, and it sounded incredible. This drumhead is also reportedly extremely durable, so I
look forward to gigging on it for the next few months.
Andrew Rooney

Play

Steve
JordanHe’s brought a timeless elegance to
some of the heaviest recordings of
the past five decades. Now, in a
setting featuring just one other
musical compadre, he’s handed
us a near-perfect sampler of
his many drumming gifts.
by Ken Micallef
Steve Jordan is a national treasure. Accompanied the Brecker Brothers’ Detente, Cissy Houston’s
by turntablist/DJ Mix Master Mike on the album self-titled sophomore album, Spyro Gyra’s Morning
Beat Odyssey 2020 (Jay-Vee Records), the sixty- Dance, Passport’s Lifelike, Don Grolnick’s Hearts
three-year-old New York native has made the and Numbers, Neil Young’s Landing on Water, Mike
album his hardcore fans have been waiting for. Stern’s Upside Downside, Keith Richards’ Talk Is
At first listen it’s a sample-stashed, cinematic Cheap, David Sanborn’s Upfront, Booker T. and the
journey through sound, but it ultimately reveals M.G.’s’ That’s the Way It Should Be, the Bee Gees’ Still
its true worth: a masterclass in the many styles of Waters, Robert Cray’s Take Your Shoes Off, Sheryl
American R&B drumming, delivered as only Steve Crow’s C’mon, C’mon and Threads, Eric Clapton’s
Jordan can. Beat Odyssey 2020 abounds with many Live in San Diego, Mark Ronson’s Uptown Special,
miraculous drumming moments: wide, deep, and John Mayer’s The Search for Everything, Bettye
fat grooves…ingenious combinations…spirit- LaVette’s Blackbird, and too many more to count.
filled rhythm missiles aimed at your heart and soul Throughout his forty-plus years in the music
with power, accuracy, and dead-on, deep-soul business, Jordan has piled up accolades for his
profundity. drumming. As a multiple Grammy award-winning
Before he was barely nineteen, Jordan was a producer and Emmy-winning musical director,
member of the legendary ’70s-era New York City he’s helmed albums for Keith Richards and the
session scene, where he played on hundreds of X-Pensive Winos, the John Mayer Trio, the Jon
albums crisscrossing fusion, jazz, soul, R&B, rock, Spencer Blues Explosion, Los Lonely Boys, Buddy
and dance music styles. Jordan classics across Guy, Solomon Burke, Boz Scaggs, Hubert Sumlin,
the years include the Blues Brothers’ landmark Tom Jones, and Beyoncé. He garnered an Emmy
Briefcase Full of Blues, John Scofield’s Who’s Who? for his MD work in Movies Rock, and music-
and Electric Outlet, Donald Fagen’s The Nightfly, directed the Kennedy Center Honors, the 2004
Mark Colby’s Serpentine Fire and One Good Turn, Democratic Convention, the Primetime Emmy

Antoine Sanfuentes

Awards, and films including Lightning in a Steve Jordan embodies all these bass drum slides up against tabla on
Bottle and Cadillac Records. drummers while bringing his own unique “Handles,” a medium-tempo track on which
With his wife, Meegan Voss, Jordan approach to the table. You can spot the drummer brings both joy and a certain
founded the label Jay-Vee Records, home Jordan’s pocket a mile away, whether it’s plaintiveness. “Abstraction” epitomizes
to the Grammy-nominated album Robert the groove furnace of his work with the Jordan’s forward-motion groove genius,
Cray & Hi Rhythm and, by their duo act, Blues Brothers, the primal stomp of his from tumbling toms to snare drags, slaps,
the Verbs, the LPs Cover Story and Trip. The John Mayer Trio recordings, the soulful pops, and jabs, a prizefighter wailing
two are also the directors of Special Events complexity of his ’70s fusion work (which away at his nemesis. Zigaboo Modeliste
and Development at the Jazz Foundation he now maligns), the rock ’n’ roll spunk of gets the Jordan shout-out on the sweaty
of America and advisors to the Little Kids his Keith Richards output, his Motown- “Vortex,” all sliding hi-hats and rim-slapping
Rock Foundation in New York. meets-New York panache with the Verbs, or snare drum cracks. Jordan brings his
But at the start and end of the day, Steve the Americana simplicity of his recordings swerving, fusion-framed, bell-riding heat
Antoine Sanfuentes
Jordan’s life’s work is historical, and based with James Taylor, Bruce Springsteen, and to “Teleport”; a massive groove to “The
on the drumming giants he has studied Eric Clapton. Real Teamster”; a belly-rubbing, shoulders-
and absorbed (and known) most of his Beat Odyssey 2020 embodies all of clinched beat to “The Gospel”; and finally a
life. From Ringo Starr and Levon Helm to Jordan’s prior work. “Valet Intro” shuffles true 16th-note, hi-hat powered, beat-box
Al Jackson, Benny Benjamin, Fred Below, with tremendous air and flow, with Jordan atmosphere to “Sly Street.”
Howard Grimes, David Garibaldi, Jim recalling Fred Below by way of Jack This is dangerous drumming, drumming
Keltner, Zigaboo Modeliste, Charlie Watts, DeJohnette. The drummer lays down a without a click track, drumming so raw,
Earl Palmer, Steve Gadd, Harvey Mason, skull-cracking, limb-twisting groove on powerful, emotive, flagrant, and butt-
Andy Newmark, Clyde Stubblefield, Art “Venom GT,” so hard and penetrating it shaking it should make every drummer
Blakey, Tony Williams, Uriel Jones, and could split granite. On “Balco” his drums stop and take stock of themselves. Beat
Greg Errico, it’s a list of the select few who slam with ferocious, head-pinned-to-the- Odyssey 2020 is the history and future
have changed the face of drumming and wall energy. of American R&B/soul/funk drumming
evolved it into a true art form. Elsewhere, Jordan’s boinging Daxdad purveyed by one of its true masters.

MD: How did you and Mix Master Mike get
together?
Steve: I was the musical director for the
Primetime Emmy Awards for six years.
During my second year in, I wanted to do
something different with the orchestra.
With the World’s Most Dangerous Band on
Late Night with David Letterman, we were
the first four-piece band ever to play every
night on television.
MD: No band on television has ever
sounded like that, before or since. That
band was on fire every night.
Steve: Thanks. That became the model
Jay-Vee Records
for every television show. Then the great
television producer/director Don Mischer
hired me to be the musical director for the
2004 Democratic National Convention.
I had a thirteen-piece band that played
R&B, repertoire taken from the civil-rights
and anti-war movements. For the Kennedy Awards Orchestra, and he blew everybody
Center Honors’ Herbie Hancock tribute away. When Mike came into this band,
segment, Mix Master Mike played on the his energy was so infectious, he was
tune “Rockit.” I’d obviously heard of Mike, welcomed into the family immediately.
because he’s a legend, but I hadn’t really He and I started doing stuff on the breaks
Jay-Vee Records
dug into his career extensively. I didn’t know and video packages, and they were some
the unique intangibles of his ability. of my favorite pieces of music during the
Then I hired Mike to be in the Emmy broadcast. Mike and I kept playing, and it
Antoine Sanfuentes
became clear that we should do something in the beginning of the song “Shogun.” This is such a needed recording.
together. It was unique. We recorded Beat MD: Though the songs on Beat Odyssey are Steve: It’s a real expression of freedom.
Odyssey at Capitol, then Sage and Sound improvised, it sounds like arrangements That’s what this record is, totally free. You’re
Recording Studios in Los Angeles, which is were worked out for some of them. talking about free jazz. This is my version of
no longer there. We had so much fun just Steve: No, we were freestyling, improvising that. Mike took all this music back to his lab
listening back to the music. the whole way. We’d get the tempo going and did a couple edits, just introducing a
MD: Are we hearing one set with different and then either he or I would start and I’d hook here and there. There are a couple of
snares or different sets? think, “Okay, what kind of groove do we things where we repeated a phrase, or we
Steve: Different sets. One of the co-owners need?” And as we’d play and improvise off wanted to extend a section because it felt
of Sage and Sound was a drummer. There one another, we’d spark one another to do so good. There’s not a lot of it, maybe ten,
were a lot of not just good but great things. fifteen percent. But the vast majority is what
drums there. Vintage stuff. Anything from It was just like jazz. The beats might be we actually played, and it sounds exactly as
Ludwig to Slingerland. That’s why I’m using funk-based or whatever, but the headspace it did when we were recording the music.
Slingerland concert toms on a couple was jazz. The way Mike hears music as a That was very inspirational.
tracks. When I wanted a certain vibe, I’d turn turntablist DJ is different from any other DJ MD: “Venom GT” sounds like a loop, and
around and the drum would be there. It that I’ve heard or seen. His music is full of you’re playing a hip single-stroke roll with
was crazy. I’d see a drum that would spark depth, and he’s dropping like Lee Morgan accented variations on the snare.
an idea. “Oh, I should use that on this.” And and Sun Ra bombs and all kinds of deep Steve: I probably hadn’t done anything
I brought some of my own drums, like the musical knowledge many musicians don’t like that since the late ’70s. What I play now
“You have to put your ego aside. Like the way Fred Below
played with Muddy Waters and Chuck Berry. These
players weren’t afraid to play simply, and they didn’t
worry about somebody saying, ‘Anybody can play that.’”
[24x12] Yamaha Daxdad kick drum, a Rogers have. He’s a jazz lover, so he brings that in. doesn’t call for that. We started doing this:
Dynasonic prototype snare drum, and my He’s like the Charlie Parker of DJs. “Let’s pick a tempo.” Boom. We started doing
Paiste Signature Traditionals cymbals. But MD: In “Abstraction,” the tom fills follow some freaky stuff, and that’s what was called
the majority of the drums were from Sage the melody, which sounds worked out, an for. I went to it naturally. I didn’t overthink it.
and Sound. Anytime I needed a certain arrangement. We didn’t overthink anything.
thing, I would look around and find it. Steve: That happened spontaneously. It’s My beacon while we were making this
MD: Did you retune the drums? totally amazing. I titled “Gospel” and “Sly music was that the pocket had to be deep.
Steve: I did a little tweaking, but not Street,” but Mike titled every other song. That’s what I wanted. As a musician that’s
much. Of course when it comes to snare After a while, we had forty pieces of music, what I would be listening for. If I listened
drums I would tune, and if I wanted to get so there will be Beat Odyssey Vols. II and to a record of just a DJ and a drummer, the
a certain tom-tom thing I would tune. But III. We’ve recorded using Willie Mitchell pocket would have to be massive. That’s the
the Slingerland concert toms were already music…we have a lot of stuff in the can. only thing that matters, not the chops or
tuned. I hadn’t played them in so long, I was MD: Today we have amazing drummers anything like that. The groove has to be a
like a kid in a candy shop. Every time I’d go who can play every style, have incredible hundred percent or it’s not worth anything.
around the toms I’d think of Hal Blaine. A technique, and can all play with a click track. MD: What’s the inspiration for the beat on
lot of the music was a rediscovery and just But there’s nothing else like this. You’re like “Balco”? It’s a classic funk pattern.
getting this inspiration by working with the only guy left who can do this. Steve: I came up with a beat back when
Mike. Steve: Certain things only come with I was a teenager, a Zigaboo/Garibaldi
In playing music, my mantra is “play the experience. People ask me about what I type of beat. As a drummer, before you
song.” I always play what’s best for the song, played in 1978 and how much they’re a start developing as a complete musician,
and in a case like this we were creating fan of something I did in ’79 or ’80. I’m very sometimes your primary goal is to play the
songs through rhythm. Therefore I had more touched, but it seems like another person, song and provide the right thing for the
freedom to play off the cuff. We would make another lifetime. I was a teenager then. I’m music, and you focus on beats and dexterity
up stuff and start playing together, playing not that person. I play much better now. and technique. One of your goals is to come
off one another. MD: You play better now, but there were up with a beat that nobody’s ever heard of.
MD: Slingerland made concert toms? different avenues for expression then. And And I’ve had a couple beats that nobody’s
Steve: Yes, 6", 8", 10", 12", and 14" drums, your drumming on Beat Odyssey hearkens ever come up with but that I’ve never really
with no bottom head. Like the Ludwig back to that period of the ’70s and ’80s. We broken out before, because the music didn’t
Octaplus toms. Every drum company made hear Al Jackson and Zigaboo Modeliste on call for it. So that was one beat that I’d never
a version of those bottomless toms. The this record. We hear Bernard Purdie and had an opportunity to play. I started playing
sound of the mid to late ’70s. I played them Clyde Stubblefield, all through your filter. it, Mike jumped on his machines, and it

became “Balco.” is the Daxdad kick drum. Beatles’ version. Over the years I was
MD: The bass drum on “Handles” is more MD: Why play a bass drum like that? listening to Tony Williams and Greg Errico,
open and rings more than on the other Steve: Because it’s a completely unique Clyde Stubblefield, Al Jackson. I got Benny
tunes on the album. Why do you have the bass drum, one of my favorite drums in Benjamin on my brain all the time and Art
open bass drum, which is very unusual to the world. I played that with the John Blakey talking to me. And Uriel Jones.
hear these days? Mayer Trio. With John Mayer I use two kits. MD: You practically embody the history of
Steve: That’s the Yamaha Daxdad kick The small hip-hop kit, as I call it, which the instrument.
drum. It’s an elongated bass drum that I has the Daxdad bass drum, and a more Steve: All these people feed my thing, and
play with John Mayer, and with the Verbs conventional kit. I swivel my drum throne it’s all one big wash now. It’s not even like
on a tune called “Burnt Out Star.” That bass between the two. I’m channeling anymore. Now it’s just in
drum was developed by Russ Miller, who MD: “Vortex” sounds like a total “Cissy there, and it’s definitely what I’m hearing. I
brought it to Yamaha years ago. I’ve been Strut” inspired groove. can play what I hear, which is a good thing
using it on certain things for a long time. Steve: Well, there are some Zigaboo- to get to. I can’t play everything I hear. I
It looks like a cocktail bass drum set on its inspired moments. He’s one of my heroes, wish sometimes I played more like Jack
side. It has great midrange punch. If you and also one of my good friends. I’ve been DeJohnette or Jabali [Billy Hart]. In my
tune it correctly you can get five notes out listening to him since I was eight years old. work with the Jazz Foundation of America,
of this drum, depending on the velocity. I used to listen to him and Ringo at the I get a chance to be around them a little bit
So I’m playing that on “Handles” and on the same time, going back and forth between more because we’re the artistic directors.
album intro. What sounds like a Roland 808 “Cissy Strut” and “Twist and Shout,” the So we put together events with all-star
Antoine Sanfuentes
Antoine Sanfuentes
rhythm sections. It’s an opportunity for me Stone used on Fresh and There’s a Riot Goin’ between John Mayer and Eric Clapton?
to call Jack and Al Foster and Billy Hart and On [a Maestro Rhythm King MRK-2]. The Steve: I can use up to fifteen snares a show,
have them play with these other incredible studio had one. I was like, “Oh, God, they from a Ludwig piccolo to an Eames to a
musicians. got this—we’ve got to use it!” I broke out Rogers to a Yamaha. I take a lot of Yamaha
MD: “Teleport” is the ultimate “funky that beat that Sly used to use, just a steady drums out on the road because I have a big
drummer” tribute. groove, and chose not to improvise around selection of them and they can duplicate
Steve: You have a Sun Ra sample going the thing. Since we didn’t really have songs, some of the other drums I have. I can get
there. This record is like a film score. That’s I just wanted to establish the Al Jackson a good sound out of a big Yamaha Elvin
why when I assembled the record in 16th-note groove, which later turned into Jones drum, which I use on John Mayer’s
mastering, it’s one song going right into the James Gadson 16th-note groove and the “Vultures.” I do a lot with the Yamaha Steve
the next. It’s a complete work. It’s a journey. Ed Greene 16th-note thing. Those guys are Jordan signature drum, which I really love for
That’s why it’s called Beat Odyssey. It’s kind the trifecta of that beat. I just wanted to do it obvious reasons. You can get two drums for
of like 2001: A Space Odyssey. That film is within my style. the price of one because when you have the
a journey of not only visual wonders, but MD: How do you tune your drums differently metal hoops on it, it sounds different from
psychological wonders and a futuristic kind for different artists? when you put wood hoops on it. It’s worth
of thing. They weren’t too far off. Steve: The music is in total control of the the investment because it’s a unique sound.
MD: Speaking of soundtracks, “Shogun” tuning, at all times. When I do a Verbs record, MD: What is funk? What is that thing that
sounds like a soundtrack piece. What were that’s different—I might retune from song makes funk move and gives it that itch, that
the two of you thinking? It’s got that funny, to song, though when we play live I won’t tightness but looseness, that behind-the-
rambling opening played on the Slingerland do as much snare drum switching like I do beat but still pushing-the-beat thing?
concert toms, then a big, slow groove. with John Mayer. With John Mayer and Eric Steve: What is that feeling? That’s
Steve: Mike had a Japanese koto drum Clapton, I do a lot of switching because that goosebumps. I get the same goosebumps
going, and that inspired me. Again, that is helps me get the song across and creates when I listen to “Twist and Shout” by the
totally improvised. He’s doing the tabla thing the sound for the band. With the Verbs I do Beatles as I get when I listen to “I Heard It
in “Handles.” That inspired me. And likewise, very little switching because Ringo didn’t Through the Grapevine” by Gladys Knight
it inspired him when I was playing certain do any switching with the Beatles when he and the Pips or “Honky Tonk Women” and
things. I got something to go with that, and played live; it was that Ludwig kit. I might “Brown Sugar” by the Rolling Stones. The
that’s how the whole record was. He’d give use a Trixon snare or a piccolo or a Brady. On same feeling I get when I hear “Basin Street
me juice. I’d give him juice. We explored a lot the Verbs’ “Burnt Out Star,” for instance, I use Blues” or Miles Davis. Or when I hear Barrett
of spontaneous combustion on the record. a small Brady snare drum. It’s a deep, small Strong’s “Money,” it’s the same feeling I get
MD: It’s great to hear you play a 16th-note drum; it’s the sound of that record. It almost from the Contours’ “Do You Love Me.” The
hi-hat pocket on “Sly Street.” sounds like it could be a big cross-stick, but same feeling I get when I hear Al Jackson
Steve: The rhythm box I used there it’s not. playing on the original “Soul Man.” You can
reminded me of the rhythm box that Sly MD: What snare drums are you using tell where I’m going. It’s not a certain group

of musicians; it’s the kind of groove when I also seem to disown some of your work, very proud of that work at the time, just as I
hear “You Can’t Do That” by the Beatles—or such as the albums with Mark Colby, the was incredibly proud of the Blues Brothers’
“Doctor Robert,” that’s funky. Brecker Brothers, Michael Urbaniak, Blue Briefcase Full of Blues. I can’t tell you how
Earl Palmer told me he came up with Mantra, Spyro Gyra, Kazumi Watanabe…. excited and proud I was.
the term “funk.” They were making these You play a lot of notes on those records, but MD: You could never play that record any
records in New Orleans that were taking the the grooves are deep. Why do you disown better than you did.
nation by storm. Some New York producers these records? Steve: But there are certain things that I
started coming down to New Orleans to Steve: Because I hear a certain rigidity in would never, ever do again, like some of
get these guys to play on their records. that playing, because of the environment those fills. I’m playing fusion fills in blues
These musicians were very comfortable in that I was in. You see, coming up in New tunes.
their own environment and with their own York, you’re looking at the people that MD: Aw, man…
group of musicians. Now they have these you see on the albums. You emulate your Steve: But here’s the thing: It wasn’t a
highfalutin New York producers coming favorite players. And when they’re the traditional blues recording. That’s why John
down, and some of the New Orleans people you’re trying to get into the same Belushi wanted me to be in the band. I was
musicians got uptight, nervous, a little ballpark with, as far as being a professional bringing new energy to this very historic
inhibited about what they were doing. Earl musician, they’re your yardstick. So there’s music. And he felt the energy that I brought
said, “Man, just loosen up. Sit down in the Steve Gadd and Harvey Mason. Those as a teenager in that band. He wanted to
gutter in the street, and let’s just play how were the two for me. As far as being a call me “The Kid,” and to have the song
we play, funky.” professional studio musician, I would “Messin’ with the Kid” be about me. I was
MD: Can anyone learn and absorb this channel them. I subbed for Steve. I had nineteen on that record.
music and be funky? the opportunity to sit behind Steve in MD: The groove on that record, it’s like you
Steve: You have to be totally committed. the studio. He was very kind to me, very sucked all the air out of the room into your
You have to put your ego aside and be generous with his time. Same with Harvey drums.
willing to make a mistake. Do what it takes Mason. I could channel Harvey. I was the Steve: There was so much energy going
to get to the essence of the groove, like the Harvey Mason stand-in on the George down. The record went to number one in
way Fred Below played with Muddy Waters Benson Weekend in L.A. record. I did the seven weeks. It was an incredible period of
and Chuck Berry. All these players weren’t rehearsals in New York. Then they flew out time. Timing is everything. When you get
afraid to play simply, and they didn’t worry to L.A. and Harvey played on the record. to a certain musical level, things happen.
about somebody saying, “Well, anybody That was like going to Actors Workshop. I You need the right circumstances, and
can play that.” was in training; I wasn’t fully developed. that record hit all of those markers. It was
When I made the commitment to do MD: But there’s your great drumming on a perfect storm for the success of that
what I do, a lot of drummers who were Mark Colby’s “Skat Talk” and the Brecker record. I played with bassist Duck Dunn and
playing a lot of notes and exhibiting a lot of Brothers’ “Squish,” for example. You can’t guitarist Steve Cropper, who I’d listened to
chops didn’t understand what was unique disown those! as a kid on all these Stax records. Now I’m
about what I like to do. They think anybody Steve: I was very proud of “Squish.” You playing with them? And they were excited,
can do it—until they try to do it. This is why can hear a little bit of the Gadd influence they said I was the new Al Jackson. For
I always say, “Simplicity is not stupidity.” You there, a little bit of David Garibaldi. I was these guys, Al Jackson was their leader.
make a commitment to play simply to serve
the music, to get to the hypnotic mantra
of the song to the point that you can’t do
something else. It’s the idea that you don’t
want to do anything else but serve the
song and touch that heartbeat, touch the
soul of everybody listening. I want to touch
everybody’s soul.
MD: And that’s hard to do.
Steve: When I do a clinic, I challenge a
drummer to come up and play a beat that I
show them. This is the simplest beat on the
planet. I ask them to play the beat without
fills. You know how hard it is for people
to not play a fill? They can’t do it. Because
Antoine Sanfuentes
people’s attention spans are very short in

society today. Nobody’s reading or listening
to one another, and nobody’s getting the
right information. They’d rather be fed
false information and misinformation. The
groove is the truth. You want to get to the
truth. Do you believe in the truth, and do
you want to hear the truth?
MD: Music changed, so you couldn’t keep
playing the way you did in the ’70s. But you

They didn’t play with Al Jackson—he led there, no doubt about it. You see a solo thing Howard and Al Jackson played. That’s one of
them. They learned from Al Jackson. To have on Instagram and you hear people doing the messages I want to get out to the world.
them say, “You’re the closest thing we have certain things, they might be impressive on Howard played on Al Green’s “Take Me to the
to Al Jackson,” that was a mind-blowing their own merit. But what about back in the River,” “Love and Happiness,” and “I’m a Ram,”
experience for me. day, like in the ’40s, ’50s, and ’60s? In New not Al Jackson.
MD: Your drumming on the record is mind- York alone, everybody was so smoking, and MD: You’ve worked with seemingly
blowing. they were playing with ensembles, not by everybody in your career, which spans
Steve: But I wasn’t as schooled in Fred Below themselves. To me it’s how you play with decades. You were so young when you
or Earl Palmer’s drumming as I am now. other people, not how you play by yourself. I started. Is there anybody you missed
When I did Hail! Hail! Rock ’n’ Roll, with Chuck see a lot of people playing alone, doing stuff working with?
Berry, I was totally schooled in Fred Below that might be remarkable, but what does Steve: I would love to have worked with
and playing more the way Fred Below would that mean? It doesn’t mean anything. John Lennon and George Harrison. Those
have played. I’m very proud of that. The only MD: It goes back to the idea of short are two things you don’t get back. I had an
thing that I don’t like about Hail! Hail! Rock attention span. Jim Keltner said I should ask opportunity to work with Miles Davis, but I
’n’ Roll was my cymbal choice. I was into that for your opinion on streaming services. didn’t. It didn’t come to fruition. But we did
small cymbal thing at the time, which I got Steve: Oh, Jim, he’s my brother. You’re talk.
from Steve Gadd. We were collecting small A talking about a legend, somebody who was MD: You told me in our last interview that
Zildjian cymbals from Frank Ippolito. I wish I really one of my heroes, as far as when I you recorded jamming with Stevie Wonder
had used a bigger and lighter ride because realized what was important about playing during the Songs in the Key of Life period.
that’s what Fred Below was using. Besides the drums. He and Levon Helm are two Where are those recordings?
the authenticity thing, it would have been a of the best examples of what’s important Steve: Stevie has a lot of stuff in the can,
better sound. about playing drums and being a complete and then there was some stuff that wasn’t
MD: You’ve played on so many landmark musician, because they serve the song. I’ve recorded. The first time I played with Stevie
recordings. How do you feel now about your played double drums with both of them, and was in a rehearsal at Phil’s Music on 52nd
work with Steve Kahn, David Sanborn, and it was a dream come true. Street in Manhattan. I was too young to
the Letterman band? Streaming services: If you’re not a audition for him, but I was working at Phil’s,
Steve: I will always love the song “Snakes” composer or a producer, then you don’t feel maintaining the percussion cage. That
with David Sanborn on the Upfront record. the diabolical impact of them. was when I was in high school. Stevie was
That’s the one that sticks out. With Steve MD: So where do drummers go to learn their auditioning a bunch of people for a couple
Kahn, I like all the stuff. We had open craft today? The old circuit of live clubs is of weeks in New York. He decided to keep
sections. And that’s why you hear bassist largely gone. his drummer, Raymond Pounds, who was a
Anthony Jackson playing those great lines. Steve: Things mutate. We’re mutating into a great drummer. Then Stevie said, “Let the kid
None of that stuff was written out. And new form, not necessarily a better form. It’s play.” And I played with Stevie.
when we began playing with percussionist just survival. And that’s why you have a lot of We were both into Chick Corea’s Hymn of
Manolo Badrena, I realized what he brought people playing by themselves and posting the Seventh Galaxy. He broke into the title
to Weather Report. It was this unique what they do to social media. That’s the track, which I knew like the back of my hand,
combination of rhythm and sound. A lot new forum. And especially with a pandemic, and we started playing it. Nobody knew
of people don’t know his contributions to when you can’t get together with people to what the hell we were playing. It was just
Heavy Weather, and the combination of play, it makes it even more isolated. And so the two of us playing it, and he was excited
Manolo and Alex Acuña was ridiculous! it’s accelerating something that was already about that. They let me hang out. I became
Alex is one of my favorite musicians and an in the making. like a mascot. He was so into that because he
incredibly sweet human being. MD: What’s left undone for you, and what’s was listening to Chick at the time.
Steve provided that opportunity for us to coming next? When Stevie was in that car accident, he
play as a band. And we used to rehearse in Steve: We have a new Verbs recording in almost lost his life. He had a brain contusion
my apartment, the same as we did with the the offing. Meegan Voss and I have a record when he came to. One of the people that he
David Letterman band. When we worked up label, Jay Vee records, and we’re very proud heard from when he came to consciousness
the composition of the Letterman theme of it. In our catalog we have the Verbs’ titles was Chick Corea. And that’s why he wrote
song, I demoed that at my place with Paul Trip and Cover Story. In 2021 we will release that song “Contusion” on Songs in the Key of
Shaffer and David Sanborn. I recorded it Garage Sale. We have Tony Joe White’s album Life. So I got to tell Chick that Stevie and I
and helped with the composition of it, even coming out, which I’m very proud of. It’s played “Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy” when
though I didn’t get any credit. For me, the the last batch of songs that he wrote. He he and Stevie and I all met backstage at a
biggest and best thing on the Letterman suddenly died, so he left the material behind Super Bowl half-time show.
show was our performance in July of 1982 for us. We had his vocals and guitars, and MD: It’s always educational and inspiring to
with James Brown. It was all downhill for me I built the tracks around what he left. And speak with you. Stay safe, mate.
after that. Beat Odyssey! We’re also very proud of the Jordan: All right, brother. Thank you.
MD: Today there are many great drummers Robert Cray & Hi Rhythm record that came
in every style. Drummers who can groove, out last year and was Grammy-nominated. Steve Jordan plays Yamaha drums and
who play with tons of technique, and across MD: Are you drumming on that as well? Paiste cymbals and uses Vic Firth Sticks
all different idioms. It seems that the state of Steve: Yes. I wanted Howard Grimes to play and Remo heads.
our drumming is strong. on it, but he was sick so I had to play on the
Steve: There are impressive players out whole record. A lot of people mistake what

Justin
Tyson
Savannah Harris, who we profile elsewhere
in this issue, sits with the remarkably daring
drummer, who’s commanded our attention
with Herbie Hancock, Robert Glasper, and so
many other movers and shakers. Among the
things we discover? Sometimes it’s about more
than the drums.
In a crowd, Justin Tyson is unassuming. He’s

not the loudest in the room, and his uniform
of laid-back crewnecks and sneakers suggests
Esperanza Spalding, and Herbie Hancock.
He’s a member of Reflect + Respond = NOW,
a supergroup featuring Glasper, Terrace
a man for whom flashiness is not a priority— Martin, Christian Scott aTunde Adjuah,
until he sits down at the drums. Derrick Hodge, and Taylor McFerrin. He’s also
Unleashing a deluge of turbo-speed chops, a member of Now Vs. Now, an electronic trio
and piling meters on top of meters, Tyson is with keyboardist Jason Lindner and bassist
a master at condensing all of that technical Panagiotis Andreou. Freelance, his band with
prowess and fierce innovation to simply serve fellow Harlem-resident musicians, is equal
the music. parts soul and hard-driving fusion. He is
Born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and raised genre-defying and expansive in his approach
in Indianapolis, Justin developed his sound in as both a drummer and a producer, earning
a hotbed of musical influences. His father was him a Grammy win for Esperanza Spalding’s
Craig Tyson, profoundly influential organist, latest release, 12 Little Spells.
producer, and co-founder of Tyscot Records, Tyson is exactly the kind of drum world
home to some of gospel music’s most well- superhero we need right now—someone both
known artists. humble and brave, steeped in tradition but
In the last five years, Justin has toured and eagerly creating a new sonic pathway that
recorded extensively with Robert Glasper, includes us all.

Samantha J. Photo

Samantha J. Photo
MD: You come from a lineage of serious and drumset, I was obsessed with drum corps. the way to Arabic-influenced industrial
gifted musicians. Take us back, and set the Back then you could buy Drum Corps fusion with Now Vs. Now, you have a distinct
scene that drew you into music. International VHS tapes and DVDs, and I language you’ve developed over the years.
Justin: I was born in Grand Rapids, would watch them all day long. My high What was your process in terms of building
Michigan. I lived there until I was six years school, Lawrence Central, had one of the your sound?
old, and my dad was the minister of music at best marching bands in the country, and Justin: I think the beginning of me trying to
Bethel Pentecostal Church. Aside from him we had a lot of resources pumped into identify my voice, and to appropriate some
being my main musical focal point, I grew the program. While I was there, we won of the language, or some of my inclinations
up with two drummers. One of them was the Grand National Championship twice. and idiosyncrasies as a person into my
Derico Watson, and another was—rest in Because we were so good, I was really playing, was when I first moved to New York.
peace—Jimmy Abney. I naturally gravitated passionate about wanting to play. I still learn I was used to being able to practice all the
towards the drums from seeing those the exercises and snare solos, and that had time in Boston [at Berklee], but when I got
two dudes play. Jimmy was playing for El a lot to do with the development of my to New York, I couldn’t practice anymore.
[DeBarge] and producing Kenny Lattimore technique. Out of necessity, I was figuring out how I
and Chanté Moore, and he was back and MD: That’s a rich foundation to come from. could make my playing most effective. And
forth from L.A. I saw him walk up to the Evolving to where you are now, which the less and less I practiced, the more I dug
drums one day—I’ll never forget—and I was encompasses everything from gospel all to find out; if you can’t rely on having fifteen
like, “Damn, he look cooler than a mother…! hours of practice for the gig, what are you
I wanna do that!” going to play now?
My dad was a mentor to Derico Watson,
who’s from Muskegon but would come to
Tyson’s Setup MD: That’s counterintuitive, but it’s true! In
New York, you live in an apartment: you’ve
Grand Rapids every week. He would stay Drums: Canopus Yaiba Groove series got towels on the drumheads and sheets on
• 5x14 and 5.5x14 snares
at our house over the weekend while he the cymbals.
• 10" and 12" toms
was playing, and we would watch drum • 16" floor tom Justin: And that was really how I started
VHS tapes. He would actually bring Modern • 22" bass drum to be like, “Okay, these are things that I
Drummer magazines over to the house, like, these are my natural propensities as a
and if I saw a drumset on a page of the Cymbals: Istanbul Agop drummer, these are the things I would like
• 17" Xist Dry Dark hi-hats
magazine, I would [literally play on] the • 20" and 22" Xist Dry Dark crashes to manifest through the drums,” and a lot of
drums on the page. • 22" Xist Dark ride that became less about the notes and more
MD: How did you develop the technical • Clap Stack about my intentions.
ferocity that we hear in your playing? MD: What artists and drummers were
Sticks: Promark 5A
Justin: A big part of my sound, my impactful for you at this time?
technique, and the way that I think is Heads: Evans Genera Dry and Justin: When I first moved to New York,
from my time marching in high school. Heavyweight snare batters, G2 Coated I started playing with this band called
Even before I was really serious about the tom batters and G1 Coated resonants, Cubic Zirconia. They called themselves
EMAD Clear bass drum batter

“ethnic disco.” It was this really tripped out, who recently won a Grammy for 12 Little direct representation of the stuff I was
ravey…it was crazy. So I got thrown into Spells. I’m curious how your writing has hearing my dad and uncle play on the
this electronic scene almost immediately. I developed over the years. organ. We call it “complications” style
wasn’t really listening to a lot of drummers, Justin: I didn’t really think of it as playing, or “talking music.” The energy
but I was listening to beat makers like Flying composing because I wanted to make beats, that the organ was producing, especially
Lotus, Lunice and Hudson Mohawke, Mike and I was like, “I’m about to be a producer when somebody was just up there talking,
Fly, or someone like TOKiMONSTA. And and produce other people’s records.” I was that was like my favorite stuff to hear. It
I guess I got thrust into that world, even thirteen or fourteen, and my dad had this was mood music, and it was super dark,
before I started hanging out and kind of old Korg X2 keyboard that I had in my because a lot of it was derivative from old,
presenting myself to the New York scene. I room, and I would just make beats on that. dark cathedral-style hymns that manifested
was listening to a lot of Deantoni Parks with Because of my musical background and the themselves in the Black church. My dad was
KUDU, and all that stuff. sound I grew up with in church, specifically instrumental in developing that sound on
MD: Freelance, Robert Glasper Experiment, with my father, that sound was manifesting the organ. That was kind of his trademark.
Now Vs. Now, and Esperanza Spalding itself in my own stuff. That’s what the That’s the kind of stuff that comes out when
are four very different gigs. How do process was like going into 12 Little Spells, I write, not even on purpose. I have a really
you approach each playing situation because I was already writing those songs. soft spot [for the organ]. I’m like a frustrated
authentically? Esperanza was writing the bulk of the organist, and I just happen to play drums.
Justin: You know we’re all—hopefully— record in Italy, and she was like, “Do you MD: As drummers, it’s very easy to get
authentically ourselves in any given social have some stuff that you could send me?” pigeonholed into a certain genre, sound,
circumstance or environment, right? But we I was just sending her music, and she or style. On a personal level, have you had
modify our personalities to a certain degree was writing to it like that. It was organic moments of doubt on your path?
depending on the space we’re in or who in a way, because I wasn’t writing those Justin: I definitely went through a really
we’re with. So I have a common theme as songs specifically for that record; she just strong disillusionment phase where I was
Samantha J. Photo
Justin Tyson, but I also developed variations integrated them into what she was already like, “Okay, I’ve been playing drums my
on that theme depending on who I’m with. doing. I was working on my own record, whole life and this has been my identity,
I don’t want to sound super metaphysical which has the same kind of vibe as the stuff but it feels like it’s not sufficient anymore,
or anything like that, but that’s really my that you hear on there. because I have other qualities and other
guiding light. I’m going to think about the MD: On “’Til the Next Full (Eyes)” and things I want to do.” They weren’t necessarily
music the same, but I’m going to play it “Lest We Forget (Blood)” we hear you on aligning with what was available to me and
differently because of the relationships I Mellotron, organ, and synths playing dense possible on the drumset. So I felt like, “I don’t
have with the people I’m playing with. and dark harmony with a lot of movement. really want to play drums anymore. I’m not
MD: I want to talk about you as a composer Is that a signature of your production style? motivated, I’m not disciplined, I’m not really
and multi-instrumentalist, and as somebody Justin: Yeah, definitely. That is kind of a getting better,” and I didn’t know why. But I

kind of embraced it. I’m not going to force structure that still has the same ingredients MD: The breath in both of your playing, and
myself to want to practice or play. I’m going as the one that already exists, but I’m the ability to superimpose so many different
to let it breathe for a minute and figure out going to create it in a way that looks like concepts of time on top of one another—it’s
if there’s something else in me that needs to something that I’m familiar with and relates like y’all are really air bending.
come out. to me as a person, more than whatever Justin: [laughs] That’s tight!
So I started working on my record, and society’s projections of me are. And I hope MD: So we have to talk a little about Herbie,
I started to write. I said, “Oh, okay! This is that everybody in the future—no matter because it’s pretty incredible.
another facet of my creativity that needs what they do—feels the courage to go Justin: It’s crazy.
to be cultivated. No wonder I don’t want to out on a limb and create something for MD: It’s a coveted gig obviously, but also a
play drums right now.” There was this other themselves, so we can all speak plainly gig where most of the cats in the band, up
thing I needed to involve in my creative without our messages being diluted, until these past couple tours, have been in
process, so that whatever statement I co-opted, or manipulated. I think that’s the band for a very long time. So, stepping
want to make is a well-rounded statement, important. into a playing situation like that, where the
and I’m not trying to speak a language on MD: When you formed Reflect + Respond = path has been laid, what was it like for you
the drumset that I could speak through NOW, where was that project coming from coming into that gig?
something else. for you? You’re playing so much love on this Justin: You know how you feel when
MD: Whether it’s Brian Blade or Tony album. you’ve been preparing for the big game
Williams, many brilliant drummers are also Justin: That’s what it was! A brotherhood— your whole life? Then the game comes and
brilliant writers and thinkers. and that was the energy of the record. And, everything that I’ve been working on—all
Justin: I look at those guys and…at the risk it was during NBA All-Star weekend, so we the Herbie records that I listened to, all the
of people being like, “You’re a drummer,” it’s were taking breaks to watch the game and Miles records I played along to in college, all
like, “Okay, yeah, I’m a drummer and I always eat chicken wings. the videos I watched, all the implementing
“There was this other thing I needed to involve in my

creative process…I’m not trying to speak a language on the
drumset that I could speak through something else.”
will be. But I’m not limited to the drumset.” MD: That’s beautiful! I love that. what I heard and fantasizing that I’m playing
Having the courage to be able to defend Justin: I wasn’t even thinking too deeply with Herbie Hancock—all that stuff kind
myself regardless of what people expect about the implications of the name, but it of projected itself into reality, and when it
from me…I know what’s required for me ended up meaning what it implies anyway, was time to play, I played! I guess more than
to be able to be as creatively liberated as I which is people coming together with a anything, I was just excited for the journey.
can be. The drums are involved, everything common goal and unifying their different I didn’t even process the fact that it was
is involved, and it all works together to talents and beliefs, and taking whatever you happening yet. I was just like, “Man...first of
create a network of things that are cohesive. have and making something from it. It was all, I wanna get there on time!”
All of these things together are going to so stress free! And we’re talking about love; MD: Whew! Let me not miss this lobby call.
highlight what my philosophy of the world you know stress and love don’t match. Justin: Listen, I almost missed my flight! I
is, what my philosophy of music is, or how MD: You heard it here! had to fly to Barcelona for rehearsal, and
I’m feeling today, the things that I love, the Justin: So when there’s no stress involved, for whatever reason I stopped and got
things that I hate. It’ll be a little bit more that love is free to roam around however it something to eat. And I didn’t realize my
legible. will. flight was at the very other side of the
MD: Speaking of philosophy, this moment MD: That leads me to the album we didn’t airport!
that we’re living through is extreme in a know we needed! Which is, you and Mike MD: Oh, my God.
lot of ways. As racial inequities are further Mitchell... Justin: Man! So I walked up to the gate and
exposed in every industry, there’s a Justin: Oh, snap. the lady was like, “Are you Justin?” And I
reckoning happening. We invest time and MD: …going crazy, on Derrick Hodge’s said, “Yeah.” And she was like, “Man, c’mon,
energy into our craft, but we don’t always album Color of Noize. we’re taking your bags off the plane right
invest that same time and energy into Justin: That was another similar experience now!” Oh, my God. Barely made it! But once
understanding how best to assert our value. where we all just came together. With I got there, it was all love. Another playing
What are your thoughts on where we are? Mike—especially coming from similar situation where I’ve been so fortunate to be
Justin: I’m living it day by day. As succinctly backgrounds, similar tastes—we’re young around people that are like, “Welcome. We
as I can put it, it’s about creating value for Black men navigating our way through the want you here because we want you here.
yourself that is independent of the value world. And that’s the homie! It’s like when We trust you and appreciate your artistry.
structure that the world, society, or culture your mom tells you that you can go outside Now let’s make some music.” And that’s
has allotted for you, or placed you in. For and play with your friends; that’s what that what the vibe was.
me, I’m going to create my own value feeling was like!

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Rob Loud

Ronnie
The
Killers’
Vannucci Jr.
His secret to drumming greatness: passion plus musicality.
As a pair of new albums demonstrate, it’s a recipe that never fails him.
Story by Ilya Stemkovsky Photos by Rob Loud
S omewhere around the midpoint of

“My Own Soul’s Warning,” the lead-off
track on the Killers’ new album, Imploding
band down, though, with Vannucci and
lead singer Brandon Flowers focusing
on delivering their best effort with help
the Mirage, you might find yourself from new producers and an impressive
uncontrollably tapping your foot or array of special guests, including Lindsey
bobbing your head or even air drumming. Buckingham and k.d. lang.
That’s because the Killers write infectious, Vannucci himself remains a model of
arena-sized anthems that fuse Springsteen- creative consistency through the album,
esque melodic hooks with modern, synth- playing it sharp and tight on “Blowback,”
heavy alternative songwriting for an end throwing in tasty tom rolls alongside
product that belongs on the radio. But that a pulsing dance beat on “My God,” and
foot is tapping primarily because of Ronnie bringing in controlled up-tempo energy
Vannucci Jr., the band’s no-nonsense on the first single, “Caution.” Sometimes
timekeeper who uses “playing for the song” his drums are processed and mixed with
as a personal mantra. sequencing and sometimes it’s all about
Imploding the Mirage began life when organic beats with space, but the stamp
the band moved operations from their Vannucci has developed over two decades
Las Vegas home to Utah, before recording is all over this eclectic collection. It’s also all
eventually moved to Los Angeles. And not over a pair of records from Big Talk, the solo
only was the studio scenery changing, but project Vannucci started a few years back
the band was forced to create without two during down time, and on Q36, the new
of its members, guitarist Dave Keuning album from the Rentals, a group Vannucci
and bassist Mark Stoermer, who are both has officially joined. And, oh yeah, they’ve
on self-imposed hiatuses of varying already got plans for yet another new
degrees. It hasn’t seemed to slow the Killers record after this latest one.

MD: You’ve had to deal with a lot of changes for the Killers’ new “Caution” than on “Blowback.”
record—recording in Utah and then L.A., and obviously Dave and MD: The toms in “Caution” are slick. It’s a busy part but works well in
Mark aren’t really involved. Did you have to really hunker down with the context of the tune.
Brandon and your producers and guests and pull through? Ronnie: Drums are a foundation instrument, but I look at them
Ronnie: It was more of a natural, practical approach—who’s in the melodically, too. For pop music, that’s important but isn’t used as
room and who’s not in the room, and handle it as it rears its ugly much. I’m hearing “Caution, bah bah bah bah” [sings descending
face. If I had my druthers, I’d be in a room with all four of us, but it tom pattern]. The way the Traveling Wilburys would fill that part in
can’t always be that way, and everybody is doing their own thing with acoustic guitars, I did it with toms. So I was thinking melody,
and good at adapting to situations. When our bass player, Mark, and almost an answer to the vocals.
was there, it was a potent couple of days. We rented this house in MD: “Lightning Fields” has a funky little beat in the verses, but it’s
Park City, Utah, thinking we would do the bulk of the writing and light and almost in the background, not imposing with any kind of
some recording, and at the tail end of the six months we sort of bigness. Then the chorus brings in the more weighty stuff.
switched gears. We scrapped all that material and started fresh with Ronnie: That one starts with a drum machine. We were listening to
two producers, Jonathan Rado and Shawn Everett. We were all in a lot of solo Sting stuff, like Ten Summoner’s Tales. And I played over
the room, and I threw Brandon a text because I didn’t want to show that and used it as a metronome or a click. And inevitably there
my excitement. I said this was going in a direction we hadn’t gone would be some flams. But Shawn never wanted to move my beats.
before, that it felt uncomfortable in a good way, and that we should He always moved a MIDI instrument or a drum machine to me,
do the whole record. which is so good, because if you just look at the verses or choruses
MD: Without Mark in the room, who were you bouncing ideas off of a song, they move. You might lay back to make the chorus seem
Rob Loud
of? Were you now talking about kick placement with these new a bit wider, so I might lay back a little bit. Or the verses might need a
producers? bit of urgency, so I might push. We did a little bit of experimenting,
Ronnie: Mark has been in and out since 2013. I’ve gotten used to like which is better, following the metronome [tightly] as best you
that scarcity. So I wasn’t thinking too much about the missing links, can, or being a little loose with it and using the metronome as an
because for us it had been a gradual thing. As far as discussing approximation and listening to the song instead of the beat.
kick placement [laughs] and that sort of thing, I’ve been fortunate MD: That’s interesting because the more common approach is to
to be pretty free. I think we all know when something’s working pull back on the verses and uptick the choruses, and you’re saying
or not. We were only worried about the song and every element the opposite.
of it. I went in there with more producer ears than drummer ears. Ronnie: Obviously it can go both ways. We’re always riding the line
And that’s why you don’t have an AC/DC type record with us. Every of making sure the chorus seems weighty enough. And sometimes
song is situational. You have a completely different drum sound on that perception of weight has a lot to do with tempo. That’s been

Rob Loud
a little bit of my experience. If you want something to really open Ronnie: I met [Rentals leader] Matt Sharp in 2005, and we kept in
up, you might want to lay back just a hair, and it makes all the touch. He ended up playing on a couple songs on my solo record,
difference in the world. the first Big Talk record. I heard his [Rentals] demos, and he asked
MD: “Fire in Bone” is nice and dry as well, but there’s all this when I could do some sessions. We did it in Vegas at our place, and
background percussion and other flavors. How much input do you I basically played on top of all the demos. And then he went away
have to a final product like that? with it for a few months and came back with this really cool noise
Ronnie: It is a shared thing. There’s not one warlord producer. I masterpiece. It was kind of fun, fast, and furious.
think it’s best to use everyone’s brain. We’re all trying to get to the MD: The Rentals’ new record, Q36, has some raw drum action from
top of the mountain. And that song was me in a dry piano room, you, like on lead track “Shake Your Diamonds.” And “Conspiracy” is
with an old Pearl acrylic kit from the ’70s, really shallow toms, black more of an old-school kick/snare/hat groove but really drives. Talk
dots, sounded like complete garbage without headphones on. We about how you approached writing and recording the album.
did all the drums to tape, and the minute it hit the tape and went Ronnie: Because it was so fast, as we were trying to knock out
through all these wonderful pre-amps and nice EQs, it really was sixteen or seventeen songs, Matt was like, “I’m not a drummer; do
awesome and super close-sounding. And Shawn wanted me to do whatever you feel.” Because there were so many loops and tracks
a hi-hat pass. He’s got such great ideas. So I cranked the hi-hat of on it, I felt myself pulling back a little and going for more meat and
the performance and played hi-hat to the other hi-hat and then potatoes. The more simplistic, the better. I didn’t know where the
panned the two of them. And it has this cool, sort of shaker effect. A end result would land. Would it be me with a bunch of tracks on the
nice little dance number. sides, or what? So I’m just going to play with it. And those are the
MD: The Rentals is a whole different bag from the Killers. What was tracks he ended up using, I guess. The ones that were nice and free.
the impetus for your involvement with the band? MD: You’ve been making records for a long time now. How do
Vannucci’s Setup
Drums: Craviotto maple or mahogany
• 6.5x14 snare drum
• 9x13 tom
• 16x16 floor tom
• 16x18 floor tom
• 14x24 bass drum
Cymbals: Zildjian
• 16" A Avedis hi-hats
• 22" A Avedis crash ride with rivets
• 24" A Avedis ride
• 22" A Avedis crash ride
• 22" A Swish Knocker with rivets
Hardware: Drum Workshop
Heads: Remo
Percussion: Latin Percussion

Rob Loud
Sticks: Zildjian Ronnie Vannucci Artist Series
Cases: Protection Racket

Rob Loud
you get inspired to compose rhythmic structures while also sacred with social media out there, so you can’t experiment like
supporting a song? that anymore. But a song like “Read My Mind,” for example, I’m just
Ronnie: I’m listening to those front-runners who carved out the keeping it so pocket. Not about the drums at all. I just want to be
path for us guys twenty, thirty years ago. But at the end of the day, supportive, but that’s such a fun tempo to play in—you can do so
I’m just trying to be of best service to the song as possible. I listen many little ghosty things with your left hand. And it ends up being
back to some records that I’ve done, and I feel a little guilty for noisy and not in service of the song.
overplaying. Certainly in the live situation, because I get so excited. Nobody cares about how well your left hand moves, you know?
Like going back to “Caution.” I could have just done the boom-bap, Maybe you have two drummers in the audience, and maybe they’re
boom-bap all the way through. We tried the “Footloose” beat on that into that shit. [laughs] It’s just situational. I don’t get stuck in too
song. [laughs] much of a rut with, “This is how I’m going to play now.” I try and
MD: You guys are consistently playing to large crowds and stadiums. always be musical and have passion when I’m playing. The more
Is it the tried-and-true “less is more” approach when you’re playing time I spend with these songs, even if they’re twenty years old now,
to a sea of people? Or do you feel you can do some little stuff that I’m still getting to know them and evolving them in a way.
could translate to the audience no matter MD: Any Big Talk plans in the future?
how far away from you they are? Ronnie: The Big Talk thing happened when the
Ronnie: It’s a little of both. We have a big other guys needed some real time off. I didn’t
band now; it’s not just four people. It’s want to stop, but I had nobody to play in the
six, sometimes nine people with the girls’ sandbox with, so I just made a record or two. Now
backing vocals. The songs are changing; they that it’s sort of been figured out with Mark and
Rob Loud
speed up; we do little breaks. So with those Dave and we’ve figured out a plan, I think we’re
embellishments, it’s not just about getting a just going to make more Killers records. We’re
fancy fill in, but just to get a different, more making another one right now. We have a healthy
energetic feel. batch of songs that I’m really excited about.
I wish we could play the songs for a
year and then record them. But nothing is

Stan Lynch

It’s been thirty years since he recorded with
Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. But for many
drummers, his playing defines the late rocker’s
greatest work. Now all those fans have got good
reason to celebrate.
If you’re having difficulty remembering the last time original Tom worth the wait.
Petty and the Heartbreakers drummer Stan Lynch manned the kit Recorded remotely in his home studio and shipped off to Baird’s
for an entire album, you’re not alone. When MD suggested to him home studio outside of Nashville, Lynch’s swampy, born in Florida/
that maybe it was the Heartbreakers’ 1991 album Into the Great Wide perfected in L.A. groove is all over Heated and Treated, especially on
Open, the drummer who supplied those deep pockets and classic Heartbreakers-y tracks like “High Fever Dreamin’” and “Hurricane.”
fills on enduring songs like “Refugee,” “The Waiting,” and “Mary Jane’s He also flashes skills people may not expect from him, playing
Last Dance” seemed genuinely perplexed. syncopated grooves that sit comfortably alongside shaker and
“I can’t even remember,” Lynch said with a laugh from his conga overdubs in “Clint,” and the aptly titled “Obligatory Chase
home studio in Central Florida, not far from where Petty and the Scene,” which would work perfectly in the score to a ’60s B movie.
Heartbreakers cut their musical teeth in Gainesville. “It’s a very With Lynch’s drumming and Baird’s dark twang filling out the
intriguing question. I think of myself as sort of an out-of-work vocal-less wide-open spaces, Heated and Treated has the feel of a
drummer. And I don’t know when I became ‘out of work.’ I made dusty obscurity the Wrecking Crew might’ve played on. Nailing
such an honest effort to reinvent myself after the Heartbreakers. such a specific sonic vibe is no small feat, considering that the
Once songwriting and producing entered after Tom, I can’t even collaborative process involved grids and file sharing, with hundreds
remember wanting to play the drums for a long time.” of miles, not studio baffles, separating the players.
Unofficially then, let’s call Heated and Treated, the debut from “For me it was trying to find the old, the groovy, in the new
the Chefs—the retro-rocking instrumental duo Lynch has cooking normal,” Lynch says of the remote sessions. “How do I make this
with former Georgia Satellites singer and guitarist Dan Baird—his sound like the T-Bones [a mid-’60s instrumental combo the
first time playing drums throughout an album in nearly thirty years. Wrecking Crew usually ghosted for in the studio] from 1967 when
That’s entirely too long to go without hearing Lynch’s song-first it’s 2020 and I can’t even see anybody face-to-face? You have to
swing powering a batch of brand-new songs. But it’s absolutely figure out how to make it sweaty and greasy when there’s nobody

else in the room. There’s no Waddy Wachtel long?’ I could play the track a couple of songwriter Jon Christopher Davis. Their first
throwing his shoulder at you saying, ‘Here’s times, get up and take a walk, come back album, Let the Music Play, finds Lynch not
where it goes.’ There’s no Benmont Tench and listen to it, maybe have another go. I only drumming, but like much of his post-
rocking back and forth, telling you you’re never had that luxury in the Heartbreakers. Heartbreakers work, singing, writing, and
on it. There’s an acting chop that’s required If I couldn’t get it in a take or two, I was playing guitars and keyboards.
to perform. You’re like an actor in front of a a nervous wreck. Jim Keltner used to “Jon’s stuff is a little more in your face and
green screen.” say to me, ‘Just relax, man. Just get into arena-rockish, for a lack of a better term,”
The stakes with the Chefs are the groove. Have fun. Dig it.’ And I never says Lynch. “And my stuff’s more weird.
considerably lower than they were back in really knew what he was talking about, We’re just going to put it out, see if anyone
the days when Lynch was a Heartbreaker. because being in a band in the studio is a cares. I like it. I’m in a band.”
Two old touring mates from long ago (the pretty high-pressure situation. I avoided a And with his home recording setup all
Satellites opened Petty’s 1987 U.S. tour) who whole chapter in the drum learning book dialed in and Lynch completely at ease
hadn’t seen each other in years making a by just being a guy in a band. I’m almost with the concept of recording remotely,
record remotely is a far cry from being under learning how to play drums all over again. the chances are good of having even more
the microscope and under the gun, trying I’ve watched so many great drummers opportunities to hear him on the drums
to nail a take in front of his uncompromising in the studio working with Don Henley, down the line. “Learning to adapt to today’s
bandleader and exacting producers like watching their process and even some of new paradigms if you want to record with
Jimmy Iovine. You can hear the relaxed vibe their struggles. I realized, I get it now. This is your buddies has been a real labor of love,”
in the performances, which Lynch said was universal stuff.” says Lynch. “The technical part of it is like
a byproduct of knowing that if he didn’t like Now that Lynch has made his return to drumming—you’ll never be where you want
what he put down for a tune the first time drumming on record, he’s making up for to be. You’ll always be going, ‘This is cool;
around, he could just come back to it a few lost time. There are plans for another Chefs today I learned something else, another
hours or a few days later. record in the future. And in the present, skill.’ That’s really what it’s all about.”
“I loved having the leisure of the clock there’s the Speaker Wars, a much more Patrick Berkery
not running,” says Lynch, “with no producer riff-rocking project Lynch has been working
looking at me like, ‘Why are you taking so on for a while with Texas-based singer-
Lynch on His Heated and Treated Setup

“Basically it’s my old Heartbreakers Tama setup from ‘Refugee’ through ‘Mary Jane’s Last Dance.’ I hadn’t seen this kit for twenty-five
years. I broke it out of storage, and it sounded good. No front head on the kick—dry, old school. For my snare I settled on a Ludwig
Supraphonic 6.5x14 from the late ’70s [olive badge]. It tunes easily and works wide open or with a variety of muffling, tunes high or
fairly low. I use compression clips on the rims to hold super-light cloth as dampening. I can easily vary the amount of dampening
depending on what sound is required for the song.
“I used eight mics: two AEA ribbons on the toms, two Miktek condenser overheads, a Miktek large-cap room mic, a Sennheiser or
AKG D112 kick mic—Dan liked the AKG better so I hung with that—a Shure SM57 for the snare, and a Shure KSM on the hi-hat.”

Lege nds
• Second installment in the
Modern Drummer Legends
series
• Includes Alex’s 1983, 1993,

and 2008 Modern Drummer
cover stories
• Transcriptions of classic
Van Halen tracks, beats,
and fills
A LE X • A survey of the evolution

of his famous live drumkits
VA N H A L E N
• A deep dive into his unique
snare sound
• An exclusive, brand-new
2020 interview
Available in print and digital
PRE-ORDER NOW!
moderndrummer.com/legends
Subscribe to Modern Drummer at moderndrummer.com/subscribe
Nick
Ma s on by Adam Budofsky
The long-delayed release of a live album by

his new Saucerful of Secrets band provides a
good opportunity to catch up with Pink Floyd’s
sticksman—much
sticksman— much better late than never.
T his past March, two years after launching Nick Mason’s Sau-
cerful of Secrets, the drummer/leader, along with Pink Floyd
bassist Guy Pratt, keyboardist Dom Beken (the Orb), and guitarists
albums, or obsessed over the fractured beauty of founding singer/
guitarist Syd Barrett’s post-Floyd recordings, Mason’s extracurricu-
lar career has been harder to pin down. Though 2018’s Unattended
Gary Kemp (Spandau Ballet) and Lee Harris (the Blockheads), were Luggage box set provided a nifty repackaging of his three collabo-
looking forward to the April release of the group’s debut album, rative albums with 10cc’s Rick Fenn and with jazz-rock greats Carla
Live at the Roundhouse, celebrating the first screenings of its Bley, Steve Swallow, Michael Mantler, and Robert Wyatt, Saucerful
accompanying film in theaters, and gearing up for a European tour. of Secrets represents Mason’s first significant attempt to deal with
Well, we all know what happened next. Like the rest of us, Mason the legacy of Pink Floyd, whose catalog includes some of the most
and company had to postpone all of their plans indefinitely. popular and enduring works in history.
As the music industry adjusted to the new abnormal, release Much to our surprise, however, Mason is not playing any of the
dates were reset for thousands of albums, including Live at the music on The Dark Side of the Moon, the greatest space-rock album
Roundhouse, which finally dropped this past September 18. For of all time and one of the highest-selling releases ever.
many, it will be a thing of unexpected power and reinvention. Nor is he reenacting scenes from The Wall, the theatrical double
While many Pink Floyd fans have followed bassist Roger Waters album that itself has sold millions, inspired a classic animated
and guitarist David Gilmour’s successful solo careers for decades, feature film, and provided rock radio with several staple tracks.
luxuriated in the late keyboardist Richard Wright’s pair of solo Nothing from Wish You Were Here either, with its timeless title

Will Ireland
song, “Have a Cigar,” and “Welcome to the Machine.” In short, Live at the Roundhouse is a revelation—of the slumber-
And no Animals—no “Dogs,” no “Sheep,” no “Pigs.” ing excitement lurking in the grooves of “Remember a Day,” the
Instead, Mason and his bandmates realized early on that there audacious bombast of “When You’re In,” the emotional arc of “Atom
was an opportunity to establish a unique approach, apart from Heart Mother,” and, most significantly, the proto-punk angst of
that of so many tribute bands, by focusing on Floyd’s early output. Barrett’s too-close-to-the-bone “Vegetable Man.” It’s also evidence
They’d explore the late-’60s Syd Barrett material, but also pick of Mason’s strong ability to lead a group, personally and artistical-
under-considered tracks from the early-’70s LPs on which the band ly. It’s a character trait that didn’t readily come to the fore in Pink
and new guitarist Gilmour were finding their second voice of sorts: Floyd, which, from the outside at least, seemed to quickly evolve
More, Atom Heart Mother, Meddle, and Obscured by Clouds. from a mellow democracy to a cauldron of personality conflicts by
The plan worked. Live at the Roundhouse finds a band—a real, the end of the ’70s.
cooperative band—finding fresh ways to interpret fifty-year-old But never mind all that—it’s been covered ad nauseum else-
material while still respecting the original recordings. It’s a delicate where, and has only ever acted as a diversion from the reason we
balance for sure, but the seasoned vets seem to easily rise to the all came in the first place: to hear some wonderful tunes that can
challenge. There’s a certain lightness to the performances, a sense transport us like no other music has before or since. We can thank
of fun that one might argue hasn’t been present on a Pink Floyd Nick Mason for the opportunity to reconsider that music again in a
album since its earliest days. Heck, they even toss out a Sex Pistols new but surprisingly revelatory light.
reference in the middle of “The Nile Song.”

MD: It must have been difficult to delay the it’s also been reasonably easy to keep busy, many cameras; what we did do was have
release of Live at the Roundhouse. because I was halfway through building a certain cameras blocked off in specific
Nick: It was disappointing. We’d gotten it home recording studio down here. Sadly, places. I thought they really got it. I love the
finished, and of course then the world came it’s still not finished, because having to do intro, it looks like a launch control. I’ve seen
to a stop. Now that it’s out, we’re all very most of it myself means it’s going very slow, an awful lot of live shows, and I think break-
happy. because I’m very lazy. [laughs] But we’re ing it up with some old Pink Floyd material
MD: The film screenings of the show were getting there. and things like that really helps. There are
just about to hit in March when everything MD: Any particular plans for it? so many live shows where frankly it lasts too
was shut down. Nick: Like everyone else, what I wanted to long in the dark. You can’t see as much as
Nick: A few of them did happen, but it really achieve was to be able to put the drums on you’d like to. They were very good at getting
was just a few. The extraordinary thing any piece of music without needing other more onto the film than I’d seen before. I
was the speed with which it crashed in on people there. That’s still the aim. The idea is was very happy with that.
us. I was on holiday in February and came to have the drums set up and more or less MD: As someone who didn’t grow up in En-
back at the beginning of March. There was permanently miked. The board remembers gland in the ’60s but who’s seen grainy black
a charity show at the 02 in London for the all the settings, so you just switch it on and white footage of those early days of
Marsden Hospital that was organized by and you’re ready to go. The days of getting Pink Floyd, and then the beautiful produc-
[Procol Harum vocalist] Gary Brooker, and it drum sounds by spending hours trying out tion of this film, I’m wondering how it was
was a great evening. Tom Jones played, Eric five different mics on every aspect of it are for you playing in that room, which was so
Clapton, Van Morrison…it was almost like hopefully gone. important to the band early on.
an old-fashioned rock show, with everyone MD: Let’s talk about the album and the Nick: The thing about the Roundhouse is
just doing one or two songs. And then a film—the video production was so beau- that it’s a bit like us—it’s come a long way.
week later it was unthinkable that it would tifully done, with great camera work. Was When we played the Roundhouse in ’66, it
have been possible, and we were heading there a lot of discussion about that aspect was just about our first public appearance,
for the west of England to isolate. of it? and it was a bit of an old ruin. Whereas now
MD: It’s a question we’re all constantly ask- Nick: Not really. I think the big thing was it’s a great space, and it’s ideal for filming
ing each other, but rightly so: How have you choosing the right people to do the movie, because you’ve got a balcony and a stage
been faring through this? the producer and directors. I think they that’s almost in the round if you want it like
Nick: I have to say I’m very fortunate became through Tony Smith, who manages that. At the end of the show that we filmed,
cause we’ve got a house in the countryside me and Genesis. I have to say, I think they we felt, “That was a good one to have shot,”
and it’s reasonably easy to isolate. In fact, were brilliant, because we didn’t have that because it was the best show we’d done so
Will Ireland
far. And there’s nothing more miserable than sion of Bo Diddley.
saying afterwards, “It’s a shame we didn’t MD: You mentioned “Vegetable Man.” My
film in Holland,” or Sheffield or whatever. So understanding is that the lyrics were so
we’re very happy with it. close to Syd’s mental state at the time that
MD: I’m looking at a list of bands who it was something that the band avoided for
played the Roundhouse back in the day: years.
a bunch of Pink Floyd shows, the Who, Nick: That’s absolutely right. It’s Syd’s song,
the Doors, Yes—bands that we think of as but unfinished. I don’t think that as a band
musically ambitious. Were you generally we ever felt that it was within our remit to
happy after doing a show back in the day, or finish it for him. A little bit further on, the
were there frustrations trying to get certain writing was taken over particularly by Roger,
things across? and there was no longer room in the set
Paddy Balls and Martin Griffin

“I’m pleased to be able to play [Syd Barrett’s]
songs and for people to enjoy them.
And I think playing them has given me
more of an insight into him.”
Nick: No, you can’t be frustrated because for a sort-of half finished song. And it was and worked out how to make those cross-
you work with what you’ve got. Of course interesting that while we were rehearsing it, fades work and so on…it’s one of those
the sound and lighting is better than it was that was the version that we felt happy with. things that I think has improved over the
back then, but at the time it was the best We decided not to turn it into a four-minute forty-odd times we’ve played it. I think we’re
you could get. Funny enough, I was watch- song by adding solos that never existed. still improving it, in fact, getting the dy-
ing a bit of the old Woodstock movie, and MD: It’s great to hear it with such a clear namics better. That’s the nicest thing about
it’s terribly dated in terms of video quality, production. It jumps out as particularly these songs, the way they move, apart from
whatever they were shooting it on, but the fresh-sounding, fun and different from the “The Nile Song,” which is full-on from start
sound quality is fantastic. I think the trouble other songs in the set. to finish. But many of the other songs have
is it’s easier to repair sound than video. Nick: It’s a forerunner to punk in some ways. that dynamic that makes a lot of rock music
MD: It’s an interesting selection of songs The whole sort of four-to-the-floor type feel, interesting.
that you’ve chosen to play—not only the and that rather shouting delivery. MD: The concept of dynamics in these
Syd Barrett material, but going into More MD: Is there anything you particularly songs extends beyond just going from a
and Obscured by Clouds. Did performing any miss about Syd, even this far out from his quiet section to a loud section. The dynam-
of those songs ring more poignantly today? presence in the band? Revisiting songs like ics within Floyd’s performances, and it’s very
Nick: Probably the ones that generate “Vegetable Man,” it must be impossible clear it’s present in this band, are constantly
the most feeling are the ones that haven’t not to think about him as a person and a but subtly shifting all the time. A lot of that
been played before. “Vegetable Man” stirs musician. I feel is prompted by your ride and crash
memories of Syd. It was dormant for about Nick: When I first met him, he was the most cymbal work. One of the beauties of your
fifty years. It was always the intention to just charming, delightful character, and that’s playing is that it has this flexibility of dynam-
do early material, basically making Dark Side very much how I still remember him. I’m ics within it that keeps things interesting
the cutoff. The way we approached it was pleased to be able to play these songs and throughout. Is that something that you’re
to find the songs that all five of us thought for people to enjoy them. I think that’s the conscious of?
were the best or that we would like to play, important thing. You never know if your Nick: I’m very conscious of it now, looking
and then extend it gradually to those that public will turn against you or say it’s a back, when you’re trying to make sense of
maybe three people thought were great. travesty to perform these songs in any way what works and why, why any of the mate-
Even if only one person wanted to do a other than exactly how Syd did them. For rial we’ve played works. I think rock music
particular song, we’d always have a go at it. me it’s still slightly odd, because I was the got a bit tied up in this idea that everything
And sometimes there’d be a surprise. Rick’s one who knew Syd the least, because David had to be played loud and at one constant
song “Remember a Day,” I’d initially not and Roger had grown up together with him. level, and it was mostly the singles that did
thought it would do it. I don’t think I really I hadn’t, I met him when he came to London it. The pop single was sort of compressed
remembered what it sounded like or what in ’66. And so I think playing the songs has to where it was the same volume from the
the drum part was or whatever, and it was given me a bit more of an insight into him. beginning to the end, and it’s actually not
one of those things where it’s rather nice MD: How did the segue of the Atom Heart that helpful in terms of trying to put a piece
when you do get to grips with it—“Yeah, Mother tracks come about? of music across. A great example in our case
this song works.” Nick: That’s a good example of a song is “Comfortably Numb,” where you have a
MD: That’s such a beautiful song, with this where I felt initially, no, impossible, it’s too light touch to the initial part of the song,
nice, loping groove—there’s a physicality to long, too difficult. I think it was Gary and Lee and then it lets loose into a guitar frenzy.
the drum part without it necessarily being who demo’d up roughly what they had in The other great one is “Stairway to Heaven.”
heavy. mind in terms of segueing between “If” and Building the drama or excitement is a great
Nick: Yeah, it’s almost like a laid-back ver- “Atom Heart Mother.” Once we heard that tool to have in your toolchest to make the

Jill Furmanovsky
music work. and I left him to it. I’m absolutely thrilled extent, it is a band. It’s not “Nick and some
MD: The Saucerful of Secrets band seems with what he did; it’s really beautiful. other guys.” Everyone is welcome to make
really well-oiled. I mean that in a good way. Having said that, I’ve decided for our next suggestions as to what we’re doing right
Nick: [laughs] Yes, I know what you mean. tour to use another kit with slightly larger and what we’re doing wrong.
The guys in the band have been playing for sizes. We’ve recreated the original Hokusai MD: When you started touring with Sau-
a long time, and they’re good at it. wave that was painted on the Ludwig kit cerful, did you notice that anything had
MD: You had told us in the past that the that was touring around [with the Pink Floyd changed in terms of your own playing?
drums at the beginning of “Obscured by “Their Mortal Remains” exhibition]. The girl Nick: It’s finally getting a bit better. [laughs]
Clouds” were an early set of electronic who did the original has done a new version When we went out, I hadn’t done any live
drums. How did you approach that sort of of it for me on a new kit, and it’s absolutely playing except for guest moments, some
thing in these live shows—are there shows with Roger and a few other
new sources for certain sounds? things—I just hadn’t played that
Some of the background sounds Saucerful of Secrets in rehearsal much. For me at least, there’s a big
seem like they were pulled off the difference between practicing and
original recordings. playing live. I’m not a great one for
Nick: There are things that were practicing anyway. But the reality
pulled from the originals, particularly is the weight with which I play
sound effects, like in “Atom Heart when practicing versus playing live
Mother.” Something like “Obscured is night and day. Even rehearsal is
by Clouds” works better by remaking different from playing live. An audi-
or rejigging. Funny enough, I did ence increases volume and energy
manage to find the original pads. I level by an astonishing amount.
think when they were plugged in, And normally on a good day I’ll
smoke and flame came out of them speed up as well. [laughs] It’s a bit
[laughs], which indicated that they like soccer, you’re going to perform
were past their very best and it was better if you’ve got 50,000 people
best to recreate the parts. There’s plenty to stunning. That’s another disappointment— encouraging it—and interestingly, if you’ve
go wrong with modern technology without the kit is put together and sitting in my only got fifty people encouraging it.
adding to the list of troubles. office rather than being played. The great beauty of a band is that you
MD: Can you talk about the kit you’re MD: How come you chose to go with bigger encourage each other. The funny thing is
playing? sizes? that even if there’s fighting within the band,
Nick: Ah, well if there’s one thing I like, it’s a Nick: For live playing, particularly going up onstage it’s sort of like the armistice, you
fancy drumkit. It’s a DW set that they built from a 20" bass drum to a 22", but also the want everyone to bring everything to the
for me quite a few years ago. It was built for toms, I think bigger is better. party that they can. So often it’s not only
recording rather than live playing. At the MD: Before Saucerful of Secrets had to about what you’re playing, but what you’re
time I wasn’t planning much in the way of postpone shows, what were you thinking in playing with one of the other band mem-
going out on tour, so it’s quite small sizes terms of where the music might go? Were bers, whether it’s working within the guitar
for what might be called a large kit. And the there new ideas you wanted to try, or was it solo, or with the bass player. It’s a curious
finish is a turn-of-the-century English fair- more about tweaking things? and wonderful thing.
ground motif. There’s quite a history of these Nick: It was more about tweaking. Most of
gaudy but rather lovely fairground shapes what we do is a tweak rather than a major Nick Mason plays DW drums, Paiste
and images. I sent a book of these images alteration. And I have to say, I don’t have cymbals, and LP percussion products and
to Louie, who’s the ace graphic artist at DW, to give the band much direction. To a large uses Promark sticks.

Bill Bruford The Go Between
While some of his peers from the ’70s were content to rest on their
laurels, our man never settled for settling down. Moreover, not only
did his appetite for new sensations push his drumming into the
future, it helped keep the genres of progressive rock and fusion
healthy and relevant in the coming decades.
by Will Romano
“In the Dead of Night” (U.K., U.K.,1978) counterbalanced only by

After Robert Fripp dashed their hopes for a self-destructive tendencies.
reconstituted King Crimson, Bill Bruford and bassist/ Dysfunction was baked into the
singer John Wetton attempted to cajole caped creative process. This volatility
keyboardist Rick Wakeman, a Yes exile soon to rejoin generated what is perhaps the
the band, into either developing a new band or single best LP of classic prog’s
recording his new solo album. Neither got off the late era—a counterintuitive, if
ground, and eventually Bruford and Wetton formed not anachronistic, release in the
supergroup U.K. with Roxy Music/Frank Zappa/Curved time of punk, synthesizing jazz,
Air keyboardist and electric violinist Eddie Jobson and classical, and electronic/ambient
Soft Machine/Tony Williams/Bruford band stringmeister sound design, all the various
Allan Holdsworth. musical elements British art-rock
As the progressive-rock subgenre reached its musicians had chased for a
dénouement, the quartet elevated and epitomized its decade.
essence: boundless musical and technical potential Case in point: “In the Dead of

With John Clark, 1980
Night” and its companion tracks (encompassing a thirteen-minute Nothing.’”

suite) feature an angular, infectious 7/4 groove shaped by barking “Bruford is a clever musician,” says Steve Luongo, whose band
snare strokes and 16th-note sextuplet fills. In the verses Bill plays TorQue recorded the song “Rippin’” from the album 103103, in
solid quarter-note kick patterns while shifting hi-hat accents and dedication to playing in 7/8. “Ten other people would go left and Bill
playing taut, mixed 8th- and 16th-note bass-drum triplets, varying goes right.”
“the placement of snare and bass drum considerably, so that scarcely
any of the measures are duplicated,” as Bill wrote in his book When “One of a Kind, Part Two” (Bruford, One of a Kind, 1979)
Carl Hyde
in Doubt, Roll! Bruford later dings out 8th-note ride cymbal strikes in When the original U.K. lineup imploded, Bill reasserted his bandleader
unison with clanging Rototom hits, for a stretch of bars in 21/8. inclinations and reenlisted Holdsworth, Dave Stewart, and bassist
Undoubtedly reflecting Jobson’s Zappa experience, the suite’s Jeff Berlin. In fact, Bill was so busy operating his band and spending
jiggery-pokery classical-rock third movement titled “Presto Vivace as much time as he could writing at the piano, he claims not to
and Reprise” sees Bill lay down a forward-propelled groove in 5/8 have given the
(splitting 16th notes between hi-hat and snare). It’s not just Bill’s drums much
playing that’s paramount here, but the sound of the kit. Cavernous thought. The
6" and 8" Rototom rolls, almost Afro-Latin in texture, echo in a 9/8 result, the album
chasm ripped by the music’s sheer gravity. “On the U.K. album [lead One of a Kind,
engineer] Stephen Tayler had positioned the drums right out in the is cerebral but
[main] room, and that is how he captured such an amazing open also seemingly
sound,” says producer Adam Moseley, assistant recording engineer for effortless.
the record, cut at London’s Trident studios. The second half
“Common practice in the pre-computer, analog 1970s was for the of the title track
band to set up all together, get a headphone balance, and assuming was structured
they knew the song, play it all the way through in the hope of the on “rhythmic
chimera of the perfect first take—the musician’s equivalent of the modulation,” says
golfer’s hole-in-one,” says Bill. “Seldom happened. We typically would Dave Stewart.
have done two or three takes, edited the best first half onto the best Beginning at
second half, if so decided, giving priority to the rhythm section on the approximately
grounds that keys and guitar could be tweaked, patched, repaired, or 1:54, the time
entirely replayed as necessary.” signature morphs
“The three Bruford records and the U.K. debut have Bill’s from 6/8 to 3/16 to 9/8 and back again. Later, a similar modulation
intelligence all over them,” says Thymme Jones of the Chicago-based occurs (at approximately 3:18), cycling through 7/8, 5/4, and 4/4.
art-rock band Cheer-Accident. “Not just in terms of drumming, but Accents shift across a repeated rhythmic line as patterns permutate
the general approach to arrangement and his singular approach to (in 6/8), courtesy of Bruford’s snare and kick beat placements.
space inside rhythms, which goes all the way back to ‘Five Per Cent for These are wondrous algorithmic permutations, but says Bill, they’re

meaningless “if they don’t produce a feeling for the listener—of further into the pop arena, Crimson challenged its audiences
the floor sliding, of the world collapsing, of imminent threat, of with a radical new sound spurred on by MI (musical-instrument)
weightlessness, of stillness, of calm, of the proximity of all these and innovation—the zeitgeist of a new decade. To wit, Bill seamlessly
more.” incorporated electronics into his considerable drum setup while
Crim’s “techno-ethno” style was being informed by Gamelan music,
“Hell’s Bells” (One of a Kind) the deep-flow rhythms of the African continent, Talking Heads, the
“‘Hell’s Bells’ was my piece,” says Dave Stewart, “and I basically wrote works of minimalist composer Steve Reich—and all musical points
that at home with multitracked synths, and then we worked out overlapping.
how to play it as a quartet. Alan Gowen [keyboardist] had written a “I think it was the Discipline record,” says Tool’s Danny Carey. “When
four-bar snippet of music that we played with National Health, which I bought that, it clobbered me. I never heard that combination of
Bill remembered and liked. Allan [Holdsworth] did a great solo on it. rhythm and textures together the way the King Crimson band did it. I
Listening back to it, it is rather difficult to solo over those changes.” had been taking African rhythm courses in college at the time, and it
In 19/16 time Bruford shadows the rhythm of the main melody all fit together.”
with 16ths on the ride (injecting the occasional 32nd note on kick Crim’s collective fascination with guitar processing effects, MI
and Rototom) while employing kick and ride accents. Ascending and tech, and hypnotic and cyclical rhythmic patterns, not to mention
descending fills on Rotos mirror the melodic characteristics of the guitarist/lead singer Adrian Belew’s creative impulse to include vocal
song. accompaniment, made it inevitable the band would arrive at “Frame
“I’ve had a long fascination with odd time signatures, and that is a by Frame.”
great song to work on,” says Gavin Harrison, who recorded the Dave Fripp and Belew execute an interlocking seven-note guitar pattern
Stewart composition “19 Days” in 19/8, as a kind of homage. “In 1983, I that cycles, phases, and repeats (just before the verses) as the time
met Dave Stewart in a studio close to where he lived in London. Many signature turns to 7/8. The thunderous 32nd-note sextuplets that
Bruford rattles off on Simmons
pads are nestled nicely within the
With King Crimson, 1982 overall sound and feel of the track,
as well as the audio balance of Bill’s

hybrid kit. “It almost sounded like
Bill partly got into electronics just
to communicate with guitarists
and other bandmembers, who
were into effects,” says drummer,
experimental jazzer, and producer
Dan Drohan.
The faint ping of the Simmons
hi-hat is one of the few metallic-
percussive touches of the song.
years later when I was playing a series of drum clinics, I asked Dave if Bruford’s use of Octobans (skirting hi-hats and ride) and occasional
he would record a version of ‘Hell’s Bells’ for me to play at clinics.” accent via the powdery punch of a Gong drum make his cymbal-lite
performance both artistic and practical, satisfying the band’s raison
“Frame by Frame” (King Crimson, Discipline, 1981) d’être as well as Fripp’s directive of reducing the frequencies gobbled
In the years since Crim’s mid-1970s breakup, co-founder Robert Fripp up by the decay of metal hardware in the upper sonic registers.
had embarked on a spiritual pilgrimage, awakening his psyche to
philosophies Eastern and esoteric. Fripp picked up stakes and moved “Discipline” (Discipline)
to New York City, where he buzzed around the experimental and Bill composed a pattern in 17/4 that perfectly overlaid onto the
punk/new wave scenes. When he returned to England, Fripp reformed main guitar riff. This seventeen-beat line, featuring alternate sticking
Crimson as a quartet composed of two Brits and two Americans. The patterns with mixed double strokes, is split across chattering African
new sound virtually embodied Fripp’s minimalist vision of a music log drum, tom, and clanging Rototom, rooted by a steady quarter-
world occupied by small, mobile, independent, and intelligent units. note pulse on the kick. Bruford’s performance lends momentum to
While some of its prog-rock brethren utterly collapsed or moved an Eastern music–informed sonic continuum that seemingly has no

beginning or conclusion. “Bill does something similar in the middle Prommel, and Herman Rieken). “I did not write a single note for the
section of ‘The Howler’ too,” says Dialeto’s Fred Barley. “Before the drums,” says Wiener. “Bill just matched his playing with ours. Bill used
guitar solo he plays the hi-hat in tempo—the 1 and 3 of 4/4—while the mallet scores. He just wanted to see our parts so he could follow
snare and bass drum are in 15/8.” our parts exactly.
“The piece switches between meters, such as 4/2, for a while
“The Drum Also Waltzes” (Patrick Moraz and Bill in the beginning of the piece, as well as 3/2, 6/4, and 3/4,” Wiener
Bruford, Flags, 1985) continues. “Depending on accents on certain beats and several time
Crimson’s dissolvement in the mid-1980s (after two more albums) shifts, the piece seems to suggest much more than what was written
didn’t stymie Bruford. In fact, he continued along his own trajectory, on the page. Bill plays with accents and shifts, sometimes even
smoothing the join between jazz, Latin, and classical with Swiss changing the meters while allowing them to resolve over time.”
keyboardist and displaced Yes man Patrick Moraz.
The project’s initial concept of sympathetic resonance of piano “Bridge of Inhibition” (Bill Bruford’s Earthworks, Bill
and drums soon morphed into electronic exploration. Yet it’s the Bruford’s Earthworks, 1987)
cover of Max Roach’s famous solo acoustic drum piece in 3/4 that Having previously communicated his artistic visions over wire and
has become an enduring classic—a virtual handbook on limb MIDI messaging with Crimson, Moraz, Al Di Meola, and Akira Inoue,
independence, rhythmic timbre, and musicality. Bruford commanded his hexagonal Simmons electronic pads to
Bruford largely maintains a steady kick and hi-hat pattern and trigger a variety of strange and wonderful sounds.
changes the sonic landscape, slightly at first, with the injection When Bruford established his band Earthworks in 1986 as a
of triplets. As momentum builds, we hear sweeping sextuplets showcase for the application of electronic drums in jazz, a Pandora’s
(mixed with triplets) helping to radically alter the complexion of box was ripped wide open. The concept of “chordal drums” allowed
the piece. Often Bruford’s hands seem to fight against the incessant Bill to carry a melody by firing off multiple synth or keyboard sounds
rhythmic current stated with his feet, making this both a bold artistic simultaneously. As such, “Bridge of Inhibition” is less a closing song
statement and mathematical/physical exercise. Call it drum music for on Earthworks’ debut than a righteous cacophony of trumpeting,
both hemispheres. repetitive samples amid a Klezmer-esque soundtrack to an
“Go Between” (The New Percussion Group of apocalyptic nightmare.

Amsterdam, Go Between, 1987) Electronics may have achieved pop music ubiquity in the 1980s,
Once famously described by Robert Fripp as having “the but virtually no drumming at the time on commercial LPs sounded
temperament of a classical musician who wanted to be a jazzer anything like this. “The piece really began with that great sound
and worked in rock groups,” Bill’s “go between” status afforded the Bill created,” says former Earthworks saxophonist Iain Ballamy, who
drummer the ability to successfully slip inside a variety of musical incidentally gave the band its name.
settings but retain a high degree of artistic freedom. In this respect,
Bruford was an eminently qualified candidate to record a crossover “Stromboli Kicks” (Bill Bruford’s Earthworks, Dig?,
selection with this classical percussion group. 1989)
Conservatory-trained percussionist/composer and co-founder With Earthworks’ second album, an even greater variety of styles
of the New Percussion Group of Amsterdam Ruud Wiener was emerged, featuring “grooves that suggested West African music,” says
fascinated with the idea of improvisation within a classical Ballamy. The ease by which Earthworks crisscrossed through musical
percussion context. Inspired in part by Chris Squire’s basslines in genres was due in part to the latest cutting-edge electronic toys.
Yes, Wiener prepped for this recording by listening to Frank Zappa The then-new Simmons SDX console supported sixteen multizone,
and, in particular, Crim’s “Fracture.” The choice in tuned percussion— multiparameter, velocity-sensitive electronic pads, and provided
xylophones, vibraphones, and marimbas—screams Zappa, and all users with a choice of up to nine stored sound samples per playing
that mallet work and the hypnotic and cyclical patterns more than surface. The pads essentially operated as a polyphonic instrument.
hint at Steve Reich. In addition, Bruford’s choice in instruments can Despite, or perhaps because of, the use of unprecedented MI
be charted on a global scale, from Gong drum (recalling Japanese innovation, the pre-production for Dig? was intense. “The initial
taiko) to congas. “Certainly, one can hear Asian influences in the stages were Bill playing ideas for songs and us figuring out how will
piece,” says Ruud Wiener. “I always felt attracted to Gamelan music, we actually achieve this,” says Adam Moseley, co-producer as well as
being a husband of an Indonesian wife.” recording and mixing engineer for Dig? “Bill and I did three weeks of
Moments of the performance are simply breathtaking: Bill syncs pre-production at his house, going through the SDX, mapping MIDI,
with the melody line played by a trio of percussionists (Wiener, Peter mapping the sounds and the placement of the sounds for each pad,

and then Bill playing the parts. Bill would adapt his [SDX console] to R LL RR LL R LL RR L RR LL RR L RR LL R LL RR L RR LL RR L RR LL R
coincide with what he was hearing in his head, so there could be a LL RR LL
physical flow to the playing. Then I went home and edited the MIDI
for three more weeks.”
It felt like square one for all involved. Everything was reconceived, a Mastelotto joins Bill by playing a scaled-back version of the rhythmic
circumstance that compelled Bruford to do the unthinkable: remove concept, employing double-handed 16ths on the toms, and
from the mix his sonic signature—his acoustic snare sound. By the maintaining the same configuration for the accented patterns:
middle and late 1980s and early 1990s, Bill regularly swapped out
his acoustic snare for the Simmons electronic simulation on records
such as Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe’s self-titled album, Kazumi RLRL RLR LRLR LRL RLR LRLR LRLRLRL
Watanabe’s The Spice of Life, and Steve Howe’s solo album Turbulence.
Acoustic snare shots shatter the atmosphere of many Earthworks
songs, but by employing its electronic counterpart, Bill proved that “The way the notes are grouped and where the accents are placed,
nothing, not even his percussive calling card, was sacred when it it leaves you a lot of options,” says Danny Carey, who has played
came to chasing a sound. “B’Boom” as a tribute during his live drum solos. “You can play a lot of
Dig? opener “Stromboli Kicks” is a kind of “old-style overture,” things on top of that.”
according to Moseley, seemingly picking up where “Bridge...” left off.
“Stromboli Kicks” foretells of the cataclysmic SDX audiovisual bursts “Thrak” (Thrak)
we’ll encounter throughout the record, including the unmistakable Another double-drumming showcase on the record, the pulse-
electronic snare jackhammering. “I understood that this opening song quickening polymetric powerhouse “Thrak,” which was once
was to encapsulate everything about the album,” says Moseley. “In described in MD as “demonic,” sees the double trio playing in two
that respect it was a good opening statement.” different time signatures: Bruford and Chapman Stick player Trey
Near the end of the track, the decay of electro gong fades as an Gunn perform in seven while Pat and the rest of the band groove in
SDX overdub commences, what Bill himself calls something akin to “a five. Only after a certain number of meters have elapsed do the band
child let loose among dozens of percussion toys. factions overlap as the measures resolve on the 1.
“B’Boom” (King Crimson, Thrak, 1995) “The Emperor’s New Clothes,” “Footloose and Fancy
King Crimson reawakened in the mid-1990s as a double trio, featuring Free” (Earthworks, A Part, and Yet Apart, 1999)
two drummers, Bill and Pat Mastelotto (Mr. Mister). Previously Fripp Bill may have abandoned electronics for his acoustic jazz roots when
had seemed indifferent or even hostile toward drums and drumming. his engagement with Crim ceased in ’97, but this aesthetic choice had
Yet the atmosphere he fostered encouraged Pat and Bill to be been implied earlier, in the 1980s, with Patrick Moraz, with bassist
nonconformists. Some believed Bill would embellish ornate fills on Jamaaladeen Tacuma (1984’s Renaissance Man), and on his own 1997
top of Mastelotto’s backbeats, in a modern twist on the Muir-Bruford album, If Summer Had Its Ghosts, featuring Ralph Towner and Eddie
brand of percussive pugilism. Surprisingly, sometimes the roles were Gómez.
reversed, heightening the rhythmic excitement. For his new Earthworks band, Bruford sprang into action, deeply
“B’Boom,” a drum solo that received Fripp’s blessing, begins in a impacting the ensemble’s musical material, even on songs he’s
triplet-based feel for which Mastelotto uses mallets on towel-covered not credited with having written. For example, piano player Steve
tom heads, as Bill moves through metric modulation. The second Hamilton and saxophonist Patrick Clahar composed “The Emperor’s
half of the piece is based on a seven-beat accented pattern Bill had New Clothes” based on a Bruford samples-and-loops drum grooves
initially conceptualized. “Pat told me that the fast snare riff that is the package (Bill Bruford’s Packet of 3). “The song was written about one
key to the second half was based off a snare drum exercise that Bill of Bill’s fundamental grooves in a big, fat seven,” says Hamilton.
had come up with,” says Gavin Harrison, a current Crimson drummer. Many of the most intriguing compositions on both 1999’s A Part,
In 7/4 time, Bruford plays accented 16th-note beats while and Yet Apart and 2001’s The Sound of Surprise albums are based on
alternating single-note accented hits amid double-stroke rolls. The odd time signature grooves. For instance, “Footloose and Fancy Free”
space between each accented single stroke, and the number of consists of two sections: Section A, written in 5/4, in which Bill (with
double-stroke rolls, modulates. The accented hits (RRLLRLLR) and his right hand) splits 8th-note beats between two different cowbells
the entire forty-eight-beat rhythmic concept, transcribed in Modern (the left hand plays the snare and left foot the hi-hat), and Section B
Drummer in 1995, looks like this: (in 6/8), which is virtually the same pattern, but in “triple pulse,” Bill
says.

“Triplicity” (Bill Bruford’s Earthworks, The Sound of “Kit and Caboodle” (Piano Circus, featuring
Surprise, 2001) Bill Bruford, Skin and Wire, 2009)
Want more proof of Bruford’s precise rhythmic arithmetic? “Triplicity” Round about the late ’90s, Bruford had radically altered the
moves through 7/4, 4/4, 3/4, and 7/8, and is framed by a basic groove orientation of his setup. Not only were electronic pads nowhere in
reminiscent of the accented pattern in “B’Boom.” sight, but Bill had flattened his heads to be parallel with the ground.
“Bill said many times that he feels everything in 4/4,” shares Steve “That’s based on the five-timpani layout of a classical musician,”
Hamilton. “Whether he’s playing in seven or eleven or thirteen, he Bruford told this writer in 2006. “I just find it easier to swivel a little to
still has this 4/4 pulse going along, which makes the piece sound a the left to open up the left side of the kit, rather than reach forward
lot easier than it is.” to the toms positioned in front of the snare as in the traditional
Bill also exercises a good deal of musical and rhythmic setup. Additionally, you lose that right-hand-over-left hi-hat thing,
foreshadowing. “I think by ‘foreshadowing’ you mean the solo drums which always seemed a bit awkward.”
introduction is entirely informed by the upcoming melody, which The kit was symmetrical, “in the sense that there are two toms and
you don’t know because you haven’t heard it yet,” says Bruford. “Very two cymbals to the right of the central snare and hi-hat, and a similar
Bill Stewart, who I adore of course.” setup, although different pitches, to the left,” Bill told me. “This makes
for some nice combinations—or would make nice combinations if I
“Conundrum,” “Prism” (Pete Lockett’s Network of was ambidextrous. I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous.”
Sparks, featuring Bill Bruford, One, 1999) Having “leveled” the playing field, Bruford generated many
Some of the non-Western rhythms that inspired King Crimson in different ideas, including “Kit and Caboodle.” “The song came from
the 1980s also fired the imagination of veteran percussionist Pete a seven rhythm that I had demoed for Colin Riley, the composer,”
Lockett. No surprise that Lockett and Bruford, two master drummers, Bruford says today. “I had explained the layout of my kit. The right-
became rhythmically entwined.
“I can’t remember whether I
wrote ‘Conundrum’ with Lockett With Hybrid kit, 1981
or Crimson in mind,” Bill admits. “I
think I was knocking about with
Tony Levin
both at around the same time.
Pete is an expert on tabla and
Indian rhythms as well as taiko and
Japanese drumming, and both
were buzzing around our heads at
the time. I was his student in these
areas.” hand three-note ‘call’ is responded to by the left-side ‘response,’ this
“Conundrum” has two distinct parts: it opens with two bars of being highlighted in the stereo picture, as heard by the drummer
4/4 followed by one in 3/4. Bill and Lockett propel the piece via seated at the kit. The toms weren’t ‘tuned to the track’: the track was
accents and by accelerating the pace of their playing, until reaching written to accommodate the toms. Riley then built up from that
Part B, which introduces rim clicking/drum shell tapping. “I see [the infinitesimally small fragment of composition.”
piece] basically in terms of cycles of patterns, with shorter patterns Surprising friends and fans alike, Bruford retired more than a
overlaying longer ones, and everything resolving happily a few decade ago, leaving tantalizing hints as to how the pioneering
seconds, or minutes, later,” says Bill. “A pattern might be ‘telescoped’: electronic musician would express himself in a musical universe
each phrase of ‘Conundrum’ is a 16th note shorter than the previous increasingly shaped by multitasking drummers and interactive
phrase.” software. “Kit and Caboodle” is emblematic of a career forged by
A similar piece, Pierre Favre’s “Prism,” also performed with Crimson curiosity and a search for the odd, the new, the different, right to the
(it and “Conundrum” can be heard on 2001’s Vrooom Vrooom), adds final beat.
beats each time a rhythmic cycle is repeated. “Tama built Bill a
couple of foot pedal pitch-bend floor toms, and he used them on
this piece,” says Lockett. “His pitched drums gave him the ability to
create lyrical phrases.”

Savannah
Harris She’s all over the jazz, avant-
garde, and crossover scenes,
by Keith Carne
playing gigs with everyone

from stately ambassadors like
Kenny Barron to the fierce
hip-hop collective Standing on
the Corner. Here the drummer
discusses her ideas about playing
and composing—including how
kindness can be one of the most
valuable things to shed.
R egardless of the genre she’s playing, Savannah Harris is

“always going for grease,” as she puts it. It’s the perfect term
to capture her aesthetic on the bandstand, because her playing
feels slick and angular, with overt nods to bebop. Indeed,
Harris’s playing often acts as the grease that helps the musical
pieces onstage gel to form one powerful expressive unit.
Harris moved to New York the day after graduating from
Howard University with a journalism degree. As she remembers
it, “Justin Brown, Kendrick Scott, Justin Tyson…Tain! They just
took me places. They’d call me up and say, ‘We’re here. Come
here.’ I’d just say, ‘Okay!’ [laughs] There were some nights in
those years that were incredible. Randomly, every drummer I
love would be hanging in the same bar. With li’l-ol’ me….”

MD: Most jazz musicians’ lives are structured around performing at be playing top-40 hits at a wedding. But the reality is that if you live
clubs—financially, socially—but that’s not happening now because of in New York, you have to make three or four G’s a month to pay your
social-distancing measures. How are you coping with this quarantine rent, utilities, your car if you have one, feed yourself, and make sure
period? you look fly. That’s what it costs. It prevents me from having to work
Savannah: What’s been most challenging for me is that last year in job capacities that are less flexible. If you get locked into working at
I was really working. This year marked an abrupt ending to that. a coffee shop, it can be hard to say to your manager, “I need to leave
The challenge has been reimagining my career right now. What for two weeks to go on the road. Then two months later I want to do it
does it actually mean to be a musician who’s built their life around again.”
performance? What other aspects
of my career can I develop now that
performance isn’t an option?
I see this as a good opportunity
for me to become a better educator,
administrator, and composer. I’m
looking at it as a residency. [laughs]
A literal residency to kind of try to
develop and shape in different ways.
I needed to find my new pocket. I
was recently hired at the Spence
School, a private all-girls K–12 school
in Manhattan. I’ll be teaching lessons
and ensembles there.
We all know how frustrating it is
to not be working. Or even to put all
this time and energy into mastering
your instrument and feel like there’s
nothing coming from it. It’s a long
game. There are times that are
really disheartening. But I believe
that if you are a person who is open
and flexible to what the universe
throws at you, you’ll have success. I
wasn’t planning on putting a lot of
emphasis into teaching at this point
in my trajectory. But all this stuff
happened, and when I looked up,
some really beautiful opportunities
came through. Be kind to people—
you never know who is going to
hook you up.
MD: Do you make most of your
living playing gigs? Have you done
gigs outside the jazz and avant-
garde scenes recently?
Savannah: Last year I was on and off the road most of the year with MD: What kind of music are you composing now, and what does your
people that I really love—the weightiest name is probably Kenny composition process look like?
Barron. The rest of the year I was working with the projects I normally Savannah: I learned a bit about composing and arranging at
work with—Maria Grand, Etienne Charles, Or Bareket—and it felt Manhattan School of Music, where I got my master’s. I’m no killing big
great to be out working for two or three weeks at a time, in full band arranger, whipping out charts. [But] I’m currently working on a
houses, making bread. piece for six drumset players. That’s a significant undertaking.
Last October between two tours, I played two wedding gigs. Why My process has been playing through ideas, growing them from
not! If it’s paying…I mean, musically it’s not anyone’s favorite vibe to the drums, recording myself, and transcribing ideas that work. Then
Tools of the Trade

“I have some friends who are super OCD about they’re dry and dark with a crispy attack, and Kendrick Scott. They’re from the ’90s, and he
their gear and every element of their sound,” they get out of the way. I like gear that’s like, took excellent care of them. In the closet I
says Savannah Harris. “I really respect that, but ‘I’m here! I’m not.’ I have a 21" Istanbul Agop have a bunch of old drums I’ve collected that I
I’m not that way. that a friend gifted me—that’s definitely my probably need to get rid of. It’s really hard! Us
“I have these 15" Bosphorus Master Vintage favorite. drummers, we tend to accumulate things—and
hats that I love. They’re perfect for me because “I bought a really beautiful Gretsch kit from I try to keep my place cute, you know?” [laughs]

trying to imagine how we can be creative with the six setups. There’s they’re both these Black, jazz-rock-drum-god-superheroes. At least
a lot of homogenous sound, so we have to think about where to put that’s how I was thinking about them.
stuff so that the sound can travel clearly around the room. Later on I came to Frankie Dunlop, Ben Riley, cats I don’t hear
My vibe for composing is my laptop and a $100 miniature MIDI people talking about as much. They have a signature sound that is so
keyboard that I take everywhere. I just work these harmonies until funky and greasy. That’s what I really like.
they’re right. Throw them in Sibelius and edit from there. I keep it I was really into Tain growing up. I’m still really into Tain, obviously.
simple over here, relying predominantly on my ears. That power, that swing—it’s so strong and electric, African and
I’ve found the best way for me to work is to be super comfortable, greasy. It’s exhilarating!
low-pressure, and mobile. I’m the queen of “I’ll get to it when I get to Tain has been so kind to me. I feel super blessed because the
it.” Truly, I am a slow burn. But I do get to it! drummers who’ve personally looked out for me…it’s a crack cast. It’s
The reality is I didn’t study piano for ten years; most of my time is a loving group of older drummers, and Tain is one of them.
spent on the drums. Drummers hear so much that others don’t. We MD: Sometimes both the jazz and drumming communities can seem
shouldn’t sell ourselves short in terms of having the confidence to like boys’ clubs. Can you talk about what it’s like to be a working
compose for other instruments. We’re like infinite processors—we’re female jazz drummer today?
hearing stuff before it happens. Savannah: I always felt that as sensitive as you want to be, it’s very
MD: I hear a lot of crossover influence in your playing and in the important to hit the drums. I remember early on being like, “Okay, if
sound of most of the projects you play with. Do you classify yourself I’m going to be a woman and play this instrument, I’m about to hit
as a jazz drummer? these drums!”
Savannah: Truth be told, I grew up listening to Minor Threat and Bad As a kid everyone would say, “You’re like a little Sheila E!” There is
Brains. But my parents are musicians, so I grew up with equal parts a certain personality that you have to assume in order to be able to
Sly and the Family Stone and “superjazz” records: Dexter Gordon, Lee work in this industry with minimal vulnerability to damage. I’ve had
Morgan. I want to see some trippy jazz shit, then see a punk show. to be a very strong and tough kind of woman, especially when I was
I grew up in Oakland, so from a young age I was around a vast, a little younger than I am now. I had to come in with boundaries—
“Drummers hear so much that others don’t. We

shouldn’t sell ourselves short in terms of having
the confidence to compose for other instruments.”
diverse musical community. And everyone played together! My sharp, clearly drawn lines. I grew up around men in their forties and
parents played African, Latin, blues, funk…. My dad got his master’s fifties, so by the time I was twenty running around New York, I was
from San Francisco Conservatory in classical piano, so he’d be already hip and knew what was up.
bumpin’ Chopin and Brahms in the car. It was a super multicultural Every woman has a different way to deal with inappropriate men.
house. For me it’s humor. I love to talk shit and so does everyone else. I’ve
I approach drums from a jazz perspective, but I love being around always tried to balance who I authentically am with who I feel like I
all this other music. I had a three-year phase with the Police. I was have to be in order to protect myself.
not messing around about Steward Copeland. I just love him! That’s With drums, when you tell your parents you want to play them,
obviously not one of my main influences in terms of my current style, they have to be cool parents to go get you some. Regardless
but I’ve always wanted to play music that was fun, creative, spiritual, of gender. Many feel there’s something about the drums that’s
and provocative. “masculine.” Maybe some parents aren’t interested in cultivating their
I’ve never been interested in any kind of “I only do this” purism. daughter’s interest for that reason? I personally think drums are a
Although I respect that if you’re not in the Gitanos community in genderless instrument. Rhythm is something I tend to characterize
Spain, the likelihood of you getting the real flamenco stuff is slim. as a feminine thing.
The same with Cuban music. For me, the global pocket is what I’m all MD: Your playing and the way you speak about playing suggests
about. I’m just trying to bring it all together. that you’re in touch with the instrument on many levels: technically,
MD: What other players have made a major impression on your spiritually, emotionally….
sound? Anyone else unexpected? Savannah: Spirituality is everything in drums. If we think of them
Savannah: Different cats from all genres made significant as being the first external instrument, their primary function is for
impressions on me. My dad was very into fusion music, and I spiritual evocation. I keep that in mind when I play. The drummers
remember him bumping Mahavishnu Orchestra on the way to the I’m friends with, we talk a lot about what our purpose is, not just
grocery store. That was when I was ten or eleven, and I had been musically. Music’s practice and function is deeply spiritual, even if the
playing for a while by then—I was working with my dad and my content of the music is nefarious. It’s still spiritually functional.
stepdad’s respective bands from the time I was seven. I was really I love going to shows, and I know it’s in my top-ten shows if I’m
impressed by Billy Cobham. I hadn’t heard that combination of in tears. If I literally feel like I’m at church, or the mosque, or in deep
clarity, speed, and invention before. meditation or whatever…that kind of rocking experience in your
It took me a little while to feel like I was hearing Tony [Williams]. body.
What attracted me to both of them, as different as they are, is that

In the Studio with
Wes Little
A New York transplant cranking away in Nashville
Story and photos by Sayre Berman
W es Little moved from New York City to

Nashville in 2008. In NYC he attended
the Manhattan School of Music to study
City after the 2008 housing crisis. “That’s it.
I’m getting out of New York,” he remembers
thinking. “I also decided to be more of a
private studios in greater Nashville, both
in terms of design and space. When he
purchased the property, it had seventeen-
jazz and performed regularly with several session player, and that environment didn’t foot ceilings and a ready-made separation
different bands, including Confrontation really exist in New York the way it once had. between what he would convert into the
Camp and Fine Arts Militia, both featuring I felt that Nashville was the Custer’s Last control room and the live room. This was
the legendary MC Chuck D of Public Enemy. Stand of studio work.” quite a difference from his previous home
Little made his decision to move to Music Little has one of the more enviable studios.

“My first home studio was in my no way anyone would take issue with of interlocking panels using casket locks.
apartment in Manhattan,” Little says. “I me playing. So I built a little room with For about $4,000, I built my version of a
needed an affordable place to practice. knock-off Auralex SheetBlok. It was just big WhisperRoom. I didn’t have the collection of
It occurred to me that between the enough for a drumkit and a keyboard. And I preamps and mics that I have now, but it was
laundromat downstairs, the Ethiopian slept on top of it. definitely a start for me. I did several records
restaurant that played music from midnight “After a while I moved to Brooklyn and out of there for my own indie bands, as well
to 3 A.M., and the upstairs neighbors who built a bigger room,” Little continues. “That as remote drum tracks for clients.
blasted merengue at all hours, there was one was about 16x12 and was made out “Eventually I added another room to

create a control room of sorts. The space was favorite drum rooms in Nashville, so that was pres, I can get different sounds and tones
riddled with problems. The heat pipes were the sonic goal for my room. I built acoustic that are Class A, and I don’t have to rely
down there, so the room would get really absorption panels, which are frames of 1"x2" on a large-format console. Instead, I have
hot. It was not ideal, but in New York City you boards and Owens Corning 703 acoustic a Presonus thirty-two-channel StudioLive
learn to make do. For $150 a month, I wasn’t insulation. That material sits inside the frame Series III board, which is really for the
going to do better than that.” and is then covered with a fabric of choice. headphone system. Because of its design, I
Little’s first studio in Nashville was in I’ve placed the panels throughout the room can send different sets of channels to each
a house he shared with his wife. It was where it seemed to make sense.” of the headphone boxes. None of the older
functional but cramped. Then in 2014, the Little’s studio incorporates a bit of $100,000 consoles can do that.”
couple found the perfect place: a ranch Nashville Music Row history, too. “One of Digging into his mic collection, Little
home that had a 920-square-foot addition the nicer recording studios in town, 16 Ton says, “I use the Audio-Technica ATM25 on
on the back with a bay window that once Studios, was going out of business,” Little the toms. It was meant for live use, but it
faced the rear yard. The previous owner says, “and the building was being converted sounds sensational in the tracking room. I
added a 750-square-foot mechanics garage, to a hair salon. They were selling off a have several kick drum mics, but I like to use
and that’s what the bay window faced when bunch of things, and I was able to get their the Shure Beta 52. I also like an AKG D12. I’ve
Little bought it. “Who,” pondered Little, isolation-booth doors. I put those doors in been using the Yamaha Subkick again lately
“would consider a room with a huge bay my place. I also got the control room glass.” because it adds great low end. I also have a
window looking into a cinderblock garage All of the mic snakes are underneath the Peluso 22 47 tube mic that I put right in front
as the ideal setup? A musician who wants floating floor and are separate from the of the kick. I love the AEA R88 stereo ribbon
to build a home studio—that’s who! It’s electric cables, so there’s no interference. mic, and I use a second set of overheads,
separated from the other part of the house “Auralex’s U-Boats are little rubber feet that which are AKG 414s. Right now I’m using
and has its own entrance, bathroom, and go under the joist and allow the floor to Cascades for room mics, which are placed in
den. It really is just perfect.” be decoupled,” says Little. “That minimizes the front corners of the room. And the Shure
Combining the experience of building sound transmission.” SM57 still works great on the snare.”
two rooms in New York with what he learned While Little’s place is technically a home When it comes to engineering, Little
studying the physics of sound in college, studio, it borders on being a commercial- recalls some sage advice he received from
Little knew a lot about building rooms grade space. “I designed it for drum one of the best in the business. “About four
inside of rooms, as well as the principles tracking; however, in its current state it can years ago,” he says, “I was doing a record
of isolation. “I have trusses that I know will easily accommodate full bands,” he notes. with Robben Ford at Sound Emporium B,
support the weight of the two layers of “I still often work in other studios, and I and Niko Bolas was engineering. Niko is
sheetrock, and there’s green glue in between can’t help but notice many of them have a veteran engineer who knows his stuff. I
the two layers as well,” he explains. “You want outboard mic preamps that are a lot of remember him saying something like, ‘We’re
to make a sandwich of hard massive stuff, the same ones I have here. They also have making choices and mixing as we go.’ That
soft fuzzy stuff, and then more hard massive the large-format consoles, like an SSL or a always stuck with me. If someone has a
stuff. The idea is to prevent propagating Neve, which is awesome. My problem with certain sound in mind, I want to get it at the
the sound outward. All the walls in the live those is that they are older and typically instrument first. Then I want to choose the
room are designed in that fashion. I can play need maintenance. They also consume a fair proper mic to capture that. Then I want to
drums at any time, and nobody knows I’m in amount of power, and they get pretty hot. choose the proper mic pre to enable the mic
there. Even if the console isn’t sucking up a lot of to properly capture the sound. That way the
“I put a lot of money and effort into power, the heat it generates means you have sound is already where it needs to be when
making sure I had the room right, as having to turn up the air conditioner. I decided to it comes time for mixing. Then all you need
to redesign a room would be costly,” Little put my money into converters and outboard to do is carve out what you don’t need in the
continues. “I’ve tracked a lot of records in preamps. final mix.”
Sound Emporium B, which is one of my “By combining all of these different mic

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Style And Analysis
Todd Sucherman
A Smattering of Hits Outside the Prog-Rock Sphere of Styx
by Terry Branam
T odd Sucherman is one of the modern greats of the drumset. His

powerfully precise drumming has been driving the legendary
prog-rock band Styx for a quarter century and is still going strong.
that I had to learn these pieces, as I wanted to have some parts
composed and fully formed as opposed to 100-percent improvised.
I wanted to frame the sections of each piece and help define the
Todd’s versatility also finds him in great demand as a studio structure from a supportive standpoint while still leaving plenty
drummer for artists in a wide variety of genres. An energetic delivery of room to play at the right moments. Antoine’s bass playing has
of ideas, combined with a keen sense of musicality, makes Todd always been incredible, but it was great to showcase his guitar work,
the musician that he is. Whether shredding over complex forms which is a special element of this record. It was also a thrill to play
and meters, laying down a deep backbeat, or fronting his own solo with my great friend Gary Husband, who is as devastatingly talented
project, Sucherman always has something important to say. on the keyboards as he is on the drums. The whole project was a
Todd’s drumming combines jazz and fusion influences with an thrill for me.
understated artistic approach found in such tasteful players as Dave “After I sent my finished tracks to Antoine, he said he’d forgotten
Mattacks, Jerry Marotta, and Ringo Starr. As a result, Sucherman to tell me that he wanted drum activity in the holes at the beginning
knows when to apply his vast arsenal of chops and when not to. and ending of ‘Trident.’ So I went back and composed the percussion
Claude DuFresne
Todd’s drum sound covers the full spectrum, from small rack toms parts using rocket toms, clay drum, dumbek, and a 12" snare with a
to a massive gong bass drum, from China cymbals to splashes, and jingle ring sitting on the head and the snares off. That whole section
everything in between. But even with all these choices, he always happened by accident, but it gave the piece an exotic flavor and
picks what is right for the task at hand. Let’s take a look at three helped build the whole record to a climactic end. I also used the
recent projects that highlight Sucherman’s signature style. same snare on every track to give Borromean Odyssey a uniform
band sound. The idea I had was to record and film the record in
Antoine Fafard, Borromean Odyssey (2019) one day, which was almost accomplished, but a technical difficulty
Antoine Fafard’s outstanding 2019 release Borromean Odyssey pushed us into a second day to finish the remaining three songs.”
captures some of Sucherman’s most impressive playing. The “Working with Todd on my album Borromean Odyssey was an
beautifully sophisticated compositions leave Todd with plenty of absolute pleasure,” says Fafard. “Todd committed fully to this project,
room to explore some of the more elaborate ideas in his vocabulary. to the point of memorizing all the music prior to recording his parts.
“Antoine’s music is incredibly complex and can go in any direction Todd brought the whole package: great musicality and sound, and,
at any moment,” says Sucherman. “I was grateful for the lead time as a bonus, the whole session was captured on video. What a trip!”

“Invisible Pastel”
Todd sets the stage on the first song of Barromean Odyssey with an open triplet roll that leads into a heavy four-over-three
groove in the intro. (0:04)
> 3
q=130
! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! œ! œ! œ! œ! œ! œ! œ! œ! œ!
ã 43 œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 3
ß
(Hi-Hat accents quarter notes)
> > sim.
>
M M M M M M M M M
ã œ. œ œ
œJ . œ. œ œ
œJ .
ƒ Œ Œ
> > > >j >j

M M M M M M. M M.
ã œ. œ œ ‰ œz
œJ . œ.
œ Œ œ.
He adds texture by employing the rim of his tom while splashing quarter notes on the hi-hat.
> > RRRL > RRRL > RRRL

Rim of tom 2
3 M z z z z z z z z z z œ z z z z z z z z œ z z z z
ã 4 œM .. œ M œ M œ. œM .. œ M M œ. œM .. œ M M œ.
o o o o o o o o o
“Progration”
Todd turns up the heat behind Gary Husband’s marvelous keyboard solo on “Progration” by laying down some fast triple
strokes on the ride over a syncopated groove.
q=140
> > > > >
M
7
ã 4 Mœ
M
œz (œz) z œz (œz) z (œ) z (œz) z (œ) z œz z (œ œz ) z œz z (œz) z (œ)
M œ M M œ M M Mœ Mœ M M M œ M œ M Mœ
He then delivers a precisely orchestrated fill across the toms and snare.
> > > > > >

M M M M M M M M M M M M M M
7 œ (œ) œ œ œ (œ) œ œ (œ œ) œ œ (œ) œ
ã4 œ M M M
œ
M M œ M

“The Seventh Extinction”
This groove follows a dotted-8th-note figure that the bass guitar is playing through the 7/8 meter. Todd fills in the spaces
with the remote hi-hat and ghost notes on the snare. He then shifts into a funky linear-type groove that toggles between
the two hi-hats.
o> > o > >

q=120
M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M
7 (œ œ) œ (œ) (œ)
œ( )œ œM ( ) œ œ œ œM
ã8 œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ (œ)
œ œ
The arrangement opens up some spaces for Todd to fill after a dotted-8th/16th figure. Check out the expanding and
contracting fills as he phrases through the bar lines to create longer phrases. (Note: This example is written in 7/4 for clarity,
but the time signature is 7/8.)
o > > > >5 > >

M. > >3 > > 3 > > >
7 j j œ œ jœ !
œ œ œ (œ) œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
j j
ã 4 œ. œœ
M
œœ œ œ œ
rL R L R L rL RR L R L R rL rL
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
M M j j
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œjœ œ œ œjœ œ œ œjœ œ œ œjœ œ œ œj œ
ã œ (œ œ) œ (œ œ) œ œ
œ
rL R L L rL R L L rL R L rL R L rL R L rL R L rL
> > >> > > > > > > >3 > > >3 > > 3 >
M.
3
M œœ œ
œ ‰
ã œ. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œj œ
œœ œ œ
L R L R R L R R L R L R L rL R mute
> > >3 > >

cym.
M M wæ z z
ãœ œœœœ œ
R L R
“Terra Nullius”
Todd breaks up the deceptive stop/start rhythms of “Terra Nullius” around the kit with a melodic pattern between the
auxiliary hi-hat, snare, and toms. (0:00)
>
> >3 > >3 >
q=150 3
>j > 3 z M
ã 74 ‰ ‰ œ f œ œ œ
3
œ ‰ œ Œ
œ œ œ ‰ œ œ
> 3
L R R L R R L
> >3 > >3 >

3 3
M M M M
ãœ œ ‰ œ
œ ‰ ( œ ) œ ‰ œ Œ
œ œ œ (œ) œ œ
> 3
> >3 > >3 >
3 3
M M M M
ãœ œ œ œ
œ ‰ () œ ‰ œ Œ
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
Jason Powell
This jaw-dropping extended roll happens in the passage after the bass solo. Todd seamlessly morphs flammed 16th
notes into open quintuplets while running his right hand up and down the toms. He nails the final unison accent with the
band on the gong bass drum. (4:26)
7 œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œjœ œ œ œ œjœ œ œ œ œjœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œjœ œ œ œ

ã 4 œM œM M M M œM œ M
o sim. rL L L R rL L L R rL L L R R L L R rL L L R
> 5> > 5>

R L L R R L L R
5 5 5 > > 5 5 >
j œ
ã œ œM œ œ œ œ œM œ œ œœ œ œœM œ œ œ œ œM œ œ œœ œ œœM œ œ œ œ œM œ œ œ œM œ œ œ
œ
rL L L R L R L L R L R L L R L R L L R L R L L R L R L L R L R L L R L
> 5> > 5> > 5> > 5> > 5> > 5> > 5>
œ œ œ œ œ
ã M œ œ œ M œ œ œ œ œM œ œ œ œ œM œ œ œ œ œM œ œ œ M œ œ œ œ œM œ œ œ œ
R L L R L R L L R L R L L R L R L L R L R L L R L R L L R L R L L R L
> 5> > 5> > 5> > 5 >

ã œM œ œ œ œ œM œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ f Ó .
R L L R L R L L R L R L L R L R L L R

“Time Lapse”
The fill that leads into “Time Lapse” superimposes eight-note groupings that ascend up the drums through the 12/8 meter. (0:00)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
12 œ œ œ œ
ã 8 œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
> >
R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R
> > o + >

M M M M M M œ M M
ãœ ( œ ) œ œ œ œ ( œ ) œ (œ) œ œ ( œ ) œ ( ) œ
œ œ (œ) œ œ t
> >
R R L
> o + >
M M M M œ M M œ M M
ãœ ( œ ) œ œ œ œ ( œ ) œ () œ œ
œ( )
œ () œ œ
œ () œ œ
œ t
R R L
“Trident”
Todd fills the gaps at the beginning with some tasteful cross-rhythmic stickings that flow over the bar lines in groups of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
five and nine on the rocket toms. He then shifts into a brisk half-time shuffle. (0:00)
> > > >

q=120
tttt tttttttttttttttt ttttttttttttttt
4 œœ œœ œœ œM ..
ã 4 œœ œœ œœ
RLRR LRLRRLRLRRLRLRRL RLRRLRLRRLRRLRR
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t tt
> > > M.
ã œœœ œ œœ œ œ œœ œ œ œ .
R L R L RL R L RR L R LR L R L RR L RL R L R L RR LR L R L R
> >3 > >3 > > > >3 > >3 > > > > ! ! ! !>
> t t t
> > > M . t t t ‰ tt tt tt tt tt tt ‰ tt tt tt tt tt t t t t t
ã œœ œ œ œœ œ œ fœ œ œ œ .
> 3
q=160
3 > 3 3 > 3 3 3 3
M M M œ M œM œ M M M M M M M M M M M
ãœ ( œ œ ) () œ ( œ) (œ œœ) œ (œ œ) (œ) œ œ (œ œ) (œ œœ)
3 3 > 3 3 3 3 > 3 o + 3 >
M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M
ãœ ( œ œ ) ( œ ) œ œ (œ œ) (œ œœ) œ (œ œ) (œ) œ œ œ ( œ ) œ œ
Tzan Niko’s Ascension (2019)
Tzan Niko’s 2019 album Ascension shows off Sucherman’s stylistic versatility. He moves from prog-metal to funky rock,
Latin, bluegrass, ballads, odd meters, and even smooth jazz within one album. “Tzan’s record was done over a couple years,
while I was on the road and he was on the road in Australia,” says Todd. “Tzan is a gifted guitarist and composer, and I love
how this record hits on many styles, but it works as an entire piece. I’m on nine of eleven tracks—Gerry Pantazis and Derek
Roddy play on it as well. There is a lot of fun and deeply challenging music in this collection.”

“Tzan O Matic”
This aggressive intro summons Todd’s heavier side, as he drives the beat on an open auxiliary hi-hat while catching accents
on the cymbals with his left hand. (0:02)
(Hi-Hat accents quarter notes)
> > sim.
> > >
>
q=130
> M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M
4 ‰
3
ã 4 œ œ œ œ . œM
œ œ
œM M œM œ M
œ
œM M M
œ
œM œM M œM œ M œM M
œ
œM
> > > >
R L
M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M z
œ
ã œM œM M œM œ M œM œ
M œM œM œM Mœ œM œ M œM Mœ œM
> > > > > >
M M M. z M M M M M M M M M M z
ã œM œ. œ œ œ
œM M œM œ M œM M œM œM œM M œM œ M œM M œM
> > > > >>> o
Mz >>>
M M M M M M M M M M M œ œ œ œ œ z M
ã œM œM
œ
M œM œ M œM
œ
M M œM œ
œ
M œM œ M M œ M
“Lunchroom Hoedown”
Todd flows through tight unison figures on this passage from the fast two-beat number. The orchestration of the tom fills
matches nicely with the contour of the guitar part. (1:24)
>. >.
q=133
> > > >> > > > > 3 > > > 6> > >
M z œ z z œz z œ z œœ œœ œœ M z œ z z œz z œ z (œ œ) œ œ œ œ œ œ
ãœ œ œ œ œ œ œ
œ œ œ œ œ
> >
> > >. > z z
> > > > >>>>6 >>>>6
M z œ z z œz z œ z œ œ M z œ z z œz z œ z (œ) œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
ãœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ
> > >. > > >>
> > >. > 3 > > > 6> > >
M z œ z z œz z œ z œœ œœ œœ M z œ z z œz z œ z (œ œ) œ œ œ œ œ œ
ã œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
> >
> > >. > > > >. > >>>>6 >>>>6
M z œ z z œz M œ M œz œz M z œ z z œz M œ M (œ) œ œ œœ œœ œœ
ãœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ
> > > 6 > > > 6> > >
M >
ã œ
f
œœœœœœœœœœœœ
R L R L L R L R L R L

“Mr. Mysterious”
This excerpt showcases Todd’s ability to groove in any time signature. He stays tight with the guitar figures with the bass
drum while navigating the mixed meters. (0:12)
> > . > . .j > .

q=82
z zz ‰ > ‰ z ‰ >
œz
M z
ã 44 ‰
M M
œ œ
œ. œ Mo œœ œ. œ Mo œ œ
.j > . > >
> > z.
‰ ‰ z! z! z
z
œz
z œ M M
ã œ. œ œ ‰
Mo œ œ
“Saga Pao”
Here’s a tasteful linear groove where Todd uses the bell of the ride and a floor tom on beat 4 to play off the guitar parts. (2:17)
>> > > >

q=92
> > >
sim.
œM .. œ œ
M
ã 44
œœ M M Mœ M M M
œ œ ‰ œ œ. œ
œ œ ‰.
R J J
œ œ ‰.
R‰ J
œ œ J.
>j > > > >> >j
>
‰ M M M Mœ M M M M M z >>> > M
ã œM œ
œ ‰. œ ‰ œ œ. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ‰ œ
R J J
“Suspended Animation”
Todd chops up the rhythms of “Suspended Animation” with some razor-sharp double-kick ruffs. (1:09)
q.= 77
> > > > >
M > > > > > > > >> >
ã 68 œ . œ œ ‰œ . œ œ œ . œ œ ‰œ . œ œ œ œ . œ œ ‰œ . œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M œœœœœ
> > > > > > > > >

M M M > > > >
ã 85 œ . œ œ œ œ œ œ 68 œ . œ œ œ œ œ 85 œ . œ œ œ œ œ œ 38 œ œ œ œ œ œ
M M M M M M M M M M M M M
‰
> > > > > > > > >

M M M
ã 85 œ .
M M œM œM 6 M M œM M œM 5 M M œM œM
8 8
œ œ œ œ œ. œ œ ‰. œ œ œ. œ œ œ œ
> > > > > > > > > > >
M M > > > > > >
6
ã8 œ œ œ œ œ j
œœ œ œ œ œ œ
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
“Spank”
The drums lead off the song “Spank,” and Todd lays down a funky backbeat with a lot of ghost notes. (0:00)
+
q=120
> > >o + o + >o + > o + >o + o > >> >
4 ! œ! M M œM (œ) M M M (œ) M M œM œ œM M M œ M
( ) œ ( )œ
M œM œ M œ M œ M
( ) ( ) ( )œ
M
œ (œ ) œ
ã4 œ
œ œ
Œ
œ œ
Œ ‰ J Œ ‰ J Jœ .
> > >o + o + >o + > o + >o + >>> >>
M M M M M M M M M ! ! M M.
œM ) œM (œ) œ M œ
M M M
ã œ œ œ (œ) (œ) œ (œ) œ œ (œ (œ œ) œœ œ œ œ
Œ Œ ‰ J Œ œJ .
Todd Sucherman, Last Flight Home (2020)
Todd steps out front on his debut solo album, Last Flight Home. Shelving his pyrotechnical drum chops for a sensitive song-
oriented approach, Sucherman reveals yet another important side of his musicianship. “My record came into existence
for a few reasons,” says Todd. “I had just finished Tzan’s and Antoine’s records—and a few other things that had lots of
drum activity—and my pal JK Harrison had been trying to convince me to do my own record with him, which would be
a vocal record. He believed in me when I didn’t. I finally relented, as I had a week in Los Angeles with some free time. We
got together, and by the second day we had written the song ‘Last Flight Home.’ The idea of singing lead terrified me, so I
thought that it was exactly what I should be doing. I have always been drawn to songs, lyrics, and—most importantly—
melodies.
“There were certain drum ideas I had in mind to play on certain pieces, which ended up getting simplified for the greater
good of the song. The prerequisite for this record to exist was to have ten songs I could put my name on proudly.”
“Sacred Book of Favorite Days”

A well-placed six-stroke roll adds an air of elegance to this laid-back fill. (1:31)
> > o > +

> 6 >> > > > >
q=78
4 M
ã4 œ
M œM M M M œM M M œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ (œ) œ œ (œ) œ œ
œ œ œ
Œ Œ RLLRRLR L R L R L R
“It’s Perfection”
Todd’s left-hand drags fill up the spaces between the accents on this epic fill that leads into the chorus. (2:34)
>j > > > >6 > > > >

q=73.5
ã 44 ‰ œœ œ œ (œ œ)œ (œ œ) œ œ œ œ
œ œ
L L R L L R L R R
As the song builds to a climax, Todd plays a staggering phrase that shifts from 8th notes to 16ths to broken triplets. The
bass drum pumps steady 8th notes underneath to provide continuity to the phrase. (3:09)
q=73.5
> > sim.
> > > > >> >> > > 3 >>
4 M M M M M M M M M M M
ã4 œ
œ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œ œ œ œ
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ

“The Damage”
This verse groove features some expressive hi-hat playing on top of a solid kick and snare pattern. (0:23)
q=135
> > o + > >
4 M
ã4 œ
M œœM M M M œM M M M M
œ
M M M M
œ
M
œ œ ‰ œ
J ‰ œ
J Œ
œ œ
‰
œ
J
+ + +
> > o > o >
M M œœM M M M œM M M M œM M M M œM M M
ãœ œ œ ‰ œ ‰ œ ‰ œ ‰ œ
J J J J Œ
Todd’s use of the bell of the ride and left-hand crashes hearkens back to Synchronicity-era Stewart Copeland, while
> > > >

perfectly supporting the vibe of the chorus. (0:44)
> . . > . . >

M Mz Mz
4 z z z œz z z z z z z
ã4 œ œ œ
Œ Œ ‰ œ
J
œ
Œ ‰ œ
J Œ
> > > > > > > >>
Mz z z z z M Œ
ãœ œz z z œz œz
œœ
œ œ œ
œ œ ‰ œ
J ‰ œ
J Œ œ
Todd channels ’70s rock on this energetic phrase that leads into the last chorus. (2:31)
> > > > > >> >j >> >> >>>>>>
M M M M M M
4 œœM
‰ œM œ (œœM) œMœ
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ
ã4 œ œ œœ œ œ
‰ J œM œ œM œMœ œ
Œ J
> > >
M M M M M M M M > > > 6> > > > > > 6> > > > > > 6> > > > > > 6> > >
ã œM œ œœ
M œ œœ
M œ œMœ œ œœ œ œ œœ œ œ œœ œ œ œœ œ œ œœ œ œ œœ œ œ œœ œ œ œœ œ œ
M M M
o o o
Jason Powell

CONCEPTS
Individuality
Part 1: Where Did It Go?
by Russ Miller
I ndividuality is defined as the unique

characteristics and traits that make someone
or something one of a kind. I thought a
Now practically anyone can film themselves
with decent video and audio quality, and we
all have access to social media to distribute our
Lack of Perspective
There seems to be a growing trend to not be
concerned about researching how the things
discussion about being yourself was important performance to the world. For truly exceptional you are doing were being done before you.
to bring up, and I will be presenting my undiscovered talent, social media is a great Let’s be frank: we are spoiled. The drumkit
thoughts over two parts. opportunity to be seen by a massive audience. has been a legitimate instrument for around a
I’ve been asked many times in interviews But let’s be honest: the larger percentage of hundred years. Early pioneers like Baby Dodds
questions like, “Do you have some advice material on social media just isn’t very good. had less than a few years of information to
for the younger generation?” or “Can you In our current culture, there’s an inherent observe; swing legends Papa Jo Jones and
talk about the current state of affairs in the need to do whatever you can to get as many Buddy Rich only had about a decade of history
music business?” My answers always address likes as possible. Clamoring to get approval this to reference.
one concerning issue. I encounter too many way is dangerous and leads the human spirit Today we have a century’s worth of
drummers attempting to develop the same to value the opinion of others too much. This is information, precedents, and documented
things in the same ways. This is a huge problem the nemesis of individuality! performances to study. And with the free
for drummers looking to establish themselves accessibility of the media, there’s no excuse to
in a crowded scene. Let’s take a look at a few Good Influences not absorb as much history of our instrument
things that are fostering this sameness in our We often look for things to influence us as possible. But when information comes too
culture. positively. But whether you’re aware of it or not, easily, its value drops.
everything you see and hear influences you. Before the internet, it was a big deal to see a
Social Media Unfortunately, the quality of teaching has taken video of somebody playing. I remember seeing
The advent of social media has given a stage to a noticeable downturn. I see people on social Buddy’s incredible technique on video for the
many people who are not prepared to present media offering advice, lessons, and private first time. It was amazing! YouTube is such an
themselves professionally. Therefore, these instruction who don’t have the necessary incredible resource. There are a lot of legendary
platforms have largely become distributors of experience to be a professional teacher. players that I was never able to see until it came
amateur-level performances. Being a qualified instructor requires more along. Don’t undervalue the history of our
Until social media arrived in the early 2000s, than owning a nice camera and having a instrument because it doesn’t cost as much—
someone had to invest money into media large following on Instagram. It takes years of or anything—to acquire it.
production to present your playing to the playing and teaching experience and having In Part 2 I’m going to discuss some methods
world. When that’s the case, there exists an the skill to break down complicated tasks into of applying historic information to develop
opportunity for someone to say, “I don’t think manageable goals. your own individuality. See you next month!
that is a good idea, so we’re not paying for When you see some educational content
Russ Miller has played on over
it.” Occasionally, a self-financed production online, always consider the source. If the ideas 500 albums. For information,
made it through and ended up being a great being presented are valid, be sure to take the visit RussMiller.com.
contribution to the artform. concepts and mold them into your playing.

STRICTLY TECHNIQUE
Coordinating the Body

Exercises for Better Alignment
by Steven Crammer
I n this lesson we’ll explore exercises that can be utilized to

strengthen the alignment of your limbs. Although these ideas
are designed to help alignment between the hands and feet, they
aligning the bass drum on the different partials.
Listen carefully, and make sure that the limbs don’t flam. You
want the aligned notes to make a singular sound. Use a metronome
also challenge subdivision accuracy, consistency of pulse, and to keep a consistent reference point.
coordination.
Alignment of the limbs is an essential component of having Triplets: Single Strokes, Triple Strokes, and Flam Accents
a consistent, precise, and clean sound on the instrument. These Single strokes should be played evenly with no accents. When
exercises were born out of a deficiency in my own playing. I playing the triple strokes, resist the tendency to accent the first note
noticed that whenever my limbs were meant to align in a place of each grouping. Instead, play each note with equal weight.
that was not the downbeat, my consistency and time suffered. I Flam accents introduce an accent on the downbeat, which will
was uncomfortable coordinating my body in less common places, align with the hi-hat. Make sure the accented note of the flam is
especially when playing more complex subdivisions. landing right on the downbeat.
The examples progress from triplets to 16ths and quintuplets.
„ .. œœ‹ œ œ ‹œœ œ œ .. .. œ‹ œœ œ ‹œ œœ œ .. .. œ‹ œ œœ ‹œ œ œœ ..
3 3 3 3 3 3
Other subdivisions beyond these are also possible. The hi-hat keeps
quarter notes while the hands play the subdivisions. Many different
stickings can work for each subdivision. Be creative. The stickings
R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L
I’ve written are a good place to start and will provide plenty of
challenge. Three-note stickings will be used for triplets, four-note
„ .. œœ‹ œ œ ‹œœ œ œ .. .. œ‹ œœ œ ‹œ œœ œ .. .. œ‹ œ œœ ‹œ œ œœ ..
3 3 3 3 3 3
stickings for 16ths, and fives for quintuplets. The bass drum part is
simple, but in each consecutive measure the bass drum aligns with
the next partial of the subdivision.
Written below is a visual aid to help you understand where the R R R L L L R R R L L L R R R L L L
> 3 > 3 > 3 > 3 > 3 > 3

bass drum aligns when you’re moving to the different partials of the
. œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ . . œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ . . œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ .
„ . œ‹ . . ‹ œ ‹ œ . . ‹ œ ‹ œ .
subdivision. I recommend saying the numbers out loud and playing j j j j j j
the bass drum (or if you’re away from the kit, clapping) on the
‹œ
bolded numbers. Then you can add the hi-hat on the downbeats.
l R L Rr L R L l R L Rr L R L l R L Rr L R L
This will familiarize you with how it feels to play the different partials
of the beat in each subdivision. The bolded numbers correspond to
whichever partial the bass drum is playing. It may be challenging at 16th-Notes: Double Strokes, Paradiddles,
first, but stick it out and it will begin to crystallize. and Single-Flammed Mills
Double strokes and paradiddles should be played evenly with no
„ .. œœ‹ œ œ .. .. œ œœ œ .. .. œ œ œœ ..
3 3 3
accents. Single-flammed mills are accented on the downbeat. Make
‹ ‹ sure to control the tap immediately following the accented flams.
This can be a challenge because it involves a downstroke.
1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3
„ .. ‹œœ œ œ œ ‹œœ œ œ œ .. .. œ‹ œœ œ œ œ‹ œœ œ œ .. .. œ‹ œ œœ œ œ‹ œ œœ œ .. .. œ‹ œ œ œœ œ‹ œ œ œœ ..
„ .. œœ‹ œ œ œ .. .. œ‹ œœ œ œ .. .. œ‹ œ œœ œ .. .. œ‹ œ œ œœ .. RRLLRRLL RRLLRRLL RRLLRRLL RRLLRRLL
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
„ .. ‹œœ œ œ œ ‹œœ œ œ œ .. .. ‹œ œœ œ œ ‹œ œœ œ œ .. .. ‹œ œ œœ œ ‹œ œ œœ œ .. .. ‹œ œ œ œœ ‹œ œ œ œœ ..
„ .. œœ‹ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ‹ œœ œ œ œ .. .. œ‹ œ œœ œ œ .. .. œ‹ œ œ œœ œ .. .. œ‹ œ œ œ œœ ..
5 5 5 5 5
RLRRLRLL RLRRLRLL RLRRLRLL RLRRLRLL
1 2 345 12 34 5 12 345 12345 123 4 5 > > > > > > > >
.
. œ œ œœœ œ œ œœœ . . œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ . . œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ . . œ œ œœœ œ œ œœœ .
. . . . . .
„ œ‹ ‹ œ ‹ œ.
r r r r r r r r
For the following exercises, I’ve notated three different stickings ‹œ ‹ œ ‹œ ‹ œ ‹ œ

for each of the subdivisions. They’re laid out in order of difficulty, l R R L R rL L R L l R R L R rL L R L l R R L R rL L R L lR R L R rL L R L
and the last example of each subdivision has the added challenge of
a flam and an accent.
Before starting each exercise, establish a familiarity with the Quintuplets: Single Strokes, Eggbeaters, and Flammed Fives
sticking, and choose a tempo that is comfortable to play. Once If quintuplets are new to you, make sure to work more on the
the hands have settled into the sticking, you can add the hi-hat on counting exercise with the visual aid. That will help build a solid
quarter notes. Each measure should be repeated many times, so foundation.
you can work out the alignment. The goal is to become comfortable Singles and eggbeaters should be played evenly with no accents.

The eggbeater is a hybrid rudiment that developed in drum corps. It These exercises will open new possibilities the more they’re
consists of a triple stroke followed by a double stroke, giving you five explored. Try different stickings to see how you can challenge
notes. They can also be played reversed, starting with the left hand yourself. Another challenging option is to switch the feet so that
instead. you play quarter notes on the bass drum while the hi-hat plays the
Flammed fives can be thought of as five-stroke rolls that begin moving part. Come up with your own ideas to take it further.
with a flam. In order to fit the flammed five within a quintuplet,
they’re spaced evenly with no rest in between. As with the single-
flammed mills, be careful to control the tap immediately following
the accented flams.
„ .. œ‹œ œœœœ œœ‹ œœœœ .. .. œœ œœœ œœ œœœ .. .. œœœœ œœ œœœœ œœ .. .. œœœœœ œ œœœœœ œ .. .. œœœœœœ œœœœœœ ..
5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
‹œ ‹œ ‹ ‹ ‹ ‹ ‹ ‹
R LRLRLRLRL R LRLRLRLRL R LRLRLRLRL R LRLRLRLRL R LR LR LR LR L
Steven Crammer is a
drummer and educator in New
„ .. œœ‹ œœœœ œœ‹ œœœœ .. .. œœ œœœ œœ œœœ .. .. œœœœ œœ œœœœ œœ .. .. œœœœœ œ œœœœœ œ .. .. œœœœœœ œœœœœœ ..
5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
‹œ ‹œ ‹ ‹ ‹ ‹ ‹ ‹
York City. He has a bachelor’s
degree from William Paterson
R RRLLR RRLL R RRLLR RRLL R RRLLR RRLL R RRLLR RRLL R R RLLR R RLL University and a master’s
> 5 > 5 > 5 > 5 > 5 > 5 > 5 > 5 > 5 > 5
degree from Manhattan
„ .. œ œœ‹ œœœœ œ ‹œœœœœœ.. .. œ œ‹ œœœœœ œ ‹œœœœœœ.. .. œ œ‹ œœœœœœ ‹œœœœ œœ.. .. œ œ‹ œœœœœœ ‹œœœœœœ.. .. œ œ‹ œœœœœœ œ‹ œœœœœ..
r r r r r r r r r r School of Music.
l RRLLR rLLRRL l RRLLR rLLRRL l RRLLR rLLRRL l RRLLRrLLRRL lRRLLR rLLRRL
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JAZZ DRUMMER’S WORKSHOP
Get on the Good Foot!
Part 3: Hi-Hat Comping in 5/4
by Steve Fidyk
W elcome to the third and final part of our lesson on hi-hat
5 ‹
3 3 3
‹‰‹‹ ‹ ‰‹‹‰‹
comping. This article explores hi-hat rhythm variations in 5/4.
The phrases included are intended to help develop dynamic balance
between your hi-hat foot and remaining limbs. 5
ã4 ‰‰‹ Œ ..
A dynamically controlled hi-hat pulse, played in sync with the ride
‹ ‰ ‰‹Œ
cymbal, can help expand your sound and reinforce the swing feel.
In modern music the hi-hat is also used as a melodic texture within J J
a phrase, stressing rhythms and creating syncopations typically 3 3
reserved for the snare or bass drum.
In 5/4, jazz drummers traditionally incorporate the hi-hat on beats
3 3 3
6 ‹‰‹‹ ‹‰‹‹‰‹.
2 and 4 to help strengthen secondary beats. As you practice the
5 ‹
following example, concentrate on the quarter-note pulse and trip-
ã4 .
let subdivisions. Listen as you play, examine the placement of each
Œ ‹ ‰‰‹Œ ‹
note, and blend each limb at a medium-soft (mp) dynamic. In doing
J
so, your time and sound should be more consistent.
3 3 3
1
5 ‹ ‹ ‰‹ ‹ ‹ ‰‹ ‹ ‰‹ .
3
ã4 .
‹ ‹
3 3 3
Œ Œ Œ 7 ‰‹‹ ‹‰‹‹‰‹.
5 ‹ ‹
.
ã4 ‰ ‹J ‰ ‰ ‹J Œ ‹
Next, try playing the following hi-hat syncopations in conjunction
with the ride cymbal. Practice each with a metronome, and focus
Œ ‰
your attention on the sound you’re producing between both instru-
ments. 3 3
3 3 3 3 3 3
2 8 ‹‰‹‹ ‹‰‹‹‰‹.
5 ‹ ‹ ‰‹ ‹ ‹ ‰‹ ‹ ‰‹ . 5 ‹
ã4 . ã4 .
Œ ‹ ‹ Œ ‹ ‰ ‰ ‹J Œ ‰ ‰ ‹J Œ ‹
3 3
3 3 3
3 ‹ ‰‹ ‹ ‹ ‰‹ ‹ ‰‹ .
3 3 3
5 ‹ 9 ‹ ‹‰‹‹ ‹‰‹‹‰‹.
ã4 ‹ . 5
ã4 ‰‰‹ ‰‰‹ ‰‰‹ ‰‰‹ ‰‰‹ .
‰ ‰ ‹J Œ ‹
‰‰JŒ
3
J J J J J
3 3 3 3
3 3
3 3 3
4
5 ‹ ‹‰‹‹ ‹‰‹‹‰‹. 10
3 3 3
ã4 ‰‰‹ Œ ‰‰‹ Œ ‹ . 5 ‹ ‹‰‹‹ ‹ ‰‹‹ ‰‹

..
J J ã4 ‹ ‰‹ ‹ ‹
‰J‰ ‰ ‰ ‹J ‰ ‹‰
J
3 3
3 3 3 3

11 ‹
3 3 3
18
5 ‹‰‹‹ ‹‰‹‹‰‹ 5 œ œ œ ‰ J œ ‰ œ ..
œ œ œ
3
ã4 ‹ ‰‹ ‰‹ ‰‹ ‰‹ ‰‹ ‰‹ ‰‹ ã4 œ
J J
3 3 3 3 3
19
5 œ œ ‰ œj ‰ œ œ ‰ œ ‰ ..
3 3 3 3 3
‹ ‹‰‹‹ ‹‰‹‹‰ ‹. ã4 œ J
ã ‹ ‹ ‹ ‹ ‹ ‹ ‹ .
‰J‰ ‰ ‰J‰ ‰ ‰J ‰
3 3 3 3 3 20 3 3 3 3 3
5
Once you can play the previous two-voice examples, add the fol-
lowing snare and bass drum combinations to complete the phrase.
ã 4 œ œ œ ‰ œ œ œ œ œ ‰ œ œ œ œ œ ..
12
ã 45 œ œ ‰ Jœ œ Œ ‰ œJ .. 21 3 3
ã 45 œ œ ‰ œj ‰ œ œ ‰ œj ‰ œ œ ..
13
ã 45 ‰ œJ ‰ œj œ ‰ œj ‰ œj ..
For variation, experiment with splashing the hi-hat to add a
new texture to the phrases. Below, Examples 4 and 10 utilize this
approach.
22
5 ‰
3
‰ jŒ
3
‰ ‰ jŒ ..
14 ã4 ‹ ‹ ‹o
ã 45 ‰ Jœ œ œ œ ‰ œ œ
J
..
15 23
5 ‰3 ‰ 3j ‰ 3 3
5
ã 4 œ œ ‰ œJ œ œ œ .. ã4 ‹ ‹ ‹ ‹ ‰ ‰ j ‰ j ‰ ..
œ o ‹ ‹
16 As you practice these layered rhythms, listen to all your limbs
ã 45 œ œ œ œ ‰ Jœ œ œ ‰ œJ ..
to check that you have complete rhythmic and dynamic control.
Concentrate on each part, and repeat the phrases several times until
the groove is locked and feeling good.
Steve Fidyk is the artistic director

for Naptown Jazz Kids in Annapolis,
Maryland, and he is on the faculty
17 at Temple University and the
5
University of the Arts in Philadelphia,
ã 4 œ œ ‰ œ œ ‰ œJ œ œ œ .. Pennsylvania. His latest album, Battle

Lines, was released this past June by
Blue Canteen Music.

FIRST PERSON
Terry Bozzio Interviews Play
Nick Mason of Pink Floyd

“Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun”
by Don Lombardi
T his month we have an excerpt of a special interview between legendary progressive drummer
and composer Terry Bozzio and rock icon Nick Mason of Pink Floyd. The questions came in from
Drum Channel subscribers during an exclusive live-stream event. We’ve also included a transcription
of the first thirty-two measures of “Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun,” which is one of Mason’s
personal favorite sections to play from the entire Pink Floyd discography.
Terry: Did you take formal drum lessons?

Nick: I did not take formal lessons, and that is certainly a regret because I think it would have
given me a lot more confidence. I would recommend taking lessons to anyone who is starting out
rather than trying to invent it themselves. In the era with Ginger Baker, Mitch Mitchell, and so on,
they played very full parts to the music. Not having
had lessons probably restrained me a little bit, but
for my particular band that worked quite well. One
[advantage to having that restraint] is space, and
the other is dynamics, because the problem with [a
lot of ] rock music is it’s full-on the whole time. But
if you can build dynamics into the music, it helps
Paddy Balls & Martin Griffin

enormously. It’s one of those things that is perhaps
difficult to learn because the feeling is that you have
to always try to fill in any space that you’re given,
rather than leave it.
Terry: How do you like your drums tuned? Is there a
specific melodic approach to your drumming?
Nick: No, there isn’t. I tune them until they sound
right. That tends to be usually fifths apart. You tend to
set them up and then see how they sound with the
band, but I’m not specific to tuning to notes.
Terry: What is your favorite part to play live?
Nick: “Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun.” It’s
played with mallets, which makes it fun and different.
Do you remember the [movie] Jazz on a Summer’s
Day, where Chico Hamilton plays this really lovely
solo with mallets? That was a moment where I
thought, I’d like to do that. The whole piece is based
on that. It’s a lovely piece from the point of dynamics.
It builds to something, and then falls back down.
Terry: Is there anything you would like to revisit?
Nick: The intro to “Time” played on Rototoms,
because when we recorded it, we just took the
second or third take. When I listen back, I think it could have been constructed a bit better if I would
have thought about it for longer and had more time. I tend to listen to everything I’ve ever done a
bit critically. I rarely put on [Pink Floyd music] for pleasure. The tendency is to always think, I could
have done that differently.
Terry: Which tour did you enjoy the most?
Nick: There is no single tour I enjoyed most. I’ve enjoyed playing live all my life, and consequently
I’ve enjoyed every era of it. The last time we were touring, it was a private jet and a limo to and from.
But actually, I enjoyed touring with four of us in the band and a couple of road crew, driving up and
down the motorway. Without sounding too romantic about it, I realize that I am really privileged to
have toured at all, in any of those capacities. I’m grateful.

Alex Solca

Check out a video lesson for this article at moderndrummer.com.

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KIT OF THE MONTH
“Color Toys”
This month’s KOTM is one of a number of different setups Brooklyn
drummer Joshua Berrios likes to break out, depending on the gig.
J oshua Berrios enjoys experimenting with drum

setups, and from the photos he sent us, he has
a knack for creating some beauties. This month
way to the left. He’s also mounted onto that drum
a tablet running a metronome app. On the Zildjian
K Custom Dark crash between the stack and the
we take a look at an arrangement he put together remote hi-hat is an Oruga Full effect. On the ride
around a Sonor Jungle kit he’s had for about ten to the right of the hats is a Sizzle Chain from
years. Tackle Instrument Supply. And on the crash to the
“I play [everything] from gospel to funk to right of that is a small Stack Ring from Stack Ring
hip-hop to rock to jazz,” says Berrios, who’s been Percussion (Reverie Drum Company).
a drummer for thirty years, these days with the “I love playing the kit like this,” says Berrios.
bands Funk Factory Music and the Rocco Project. “I play a lot of pocket grooves, and it just makes
“This particular setup was me trying to set up some sense to me. It allows me to [play opened-handed]
‘color toys’ on my kit.” and not crossed like traditional players. And it
Among the accessories Berrios broke out for this makes the kit kind of even from left to right. It
setup are an Oruga Cascabel Mini effect, which keeps me more focused on grooving.”
he placed on the 10" 7drums custom snare all the

CRITIQUE
RECORDINGS
Archie Shepp, Raw Poetic,
and Damu the Fudgemunk
Ocean Bridges
A delightfully swinging hip-hop-meets-
jazz excursion that sounds composed yet is
completely improvised.
Ocean Bridges features tenor great Archie
Shepp; his nephew, rapper Raw Poetic; and Earl
“Damu the Fudgemunk” Davis on drums,
vibraphone, vocals, and turntable. The leaders are
accompanied by Pat Fritz on guitar, Aaron Gause
on Wurlitzer and synth, Luke Stewart on bass,
Jamal Moore on tenor sax and percussion, and
Bashi Rose on drums, who trade grooves, raps,
and spoken-word incitements, with Shepp’s sage
playing and recollections enriching the music’s
presence. Purring more than hard blowing,
Shepp guides the amiable, extremely competent
musicians, all possessing big ears and mercurial
talent. “Professor Shepp’s Agenda 3” bubbles and
brews over Rose’s choogling rim click pattern,
while on “Professor Shepp’s Agenda 1” Shepp
critiques U.S. education over changing jazz
atmospheres. “Tulips” offers flowing free funk,
floating/stumbling hip-hop drives the raps of
“Moving Maps,” and “Searching Souls” hovers free
and quaking, citing “a time for war and a time for
peace.” (Redefinition) Ken Micallef
Jason Moore
Jon Anderson 1000 Hands (Chapter One)

For his latest album, the original Yes vocalist completed a project that he started well before the new millennium.
With an injection of recurring musical themes, calls to top-flight fusion/jazz and rock musicians, and a
little tape baking, a production team led by producer/keyboardist Michael T. Franklin helped to revive Jon
Anderson’s multistylistic recording project, begun nearly three decades ago. What has emerged might
be the former Yes vocalist’s most potent solo effort to date. Dance-based grooves performed by Carmine
Appice and Matt Brown blossom on opposite ends of the stereo image as synthetic percussion rests in the
middle of the mix for the Indian music/techno-rock hybrid “Ramalama.” Tracks recorded in different eras by
Yes drummer Alan White and percussionist Steady Joseph fuse in a timeless void for the Caribbean-spiked
“First Born Leaders.” Billy Cobham’s effortless, first-take percussive lyricism in 4/4 and 7/4 graces “Come Up,”
and “Activate” boasts swathes of minimalistic patterns, rousing percussion passages from White and Joseph,
and performances by keyboardist Brian Chatton (the Warriors), flutist Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull), and former
Kansas violinist Robby Steinhardt. With such moments of musical and rhythmic brilliance, it’s surprising this
energetic material languished for so long. (Blue Élan Records) Will Romano

BOOKS
Linear Drumming by Camilo Torres
Breaking down linear patterns with math and ingenuity.
At first glance, Chilean drummer and educator Camilo Torres’ book on linear drumming looks like one of
those algebra textbooks you were happy to never have to look at again after high school. But a deeper dive
reveals a treasure trove of rhythmic concepts to expand your playing beyond the basic 2 and 4. Inspired by
linear drumming masters like David Garibaldi, Torres presents page after page of groove examples making
up sixteen notes, and then shows different ways of subdividing the beats by grouping different sections
together. On paper, the material seems clinical, and your hands and reading must be at an intermediate
level to even begin. But spend time exploring all the possible exercises generated from each beat, and the
book becomes your guide to unlocking those tough linear concepts. How to apply this stuff to composing
your own beats will be the next step. (Hudson Music) Ilya Stemkovsky
TAKING THE REINS
Michael Pollick
Doug Coombe
Quin Kirchner The Shadows and the Light

Jazz genre-hopping and focused arrangements come together on this Chicago drummer’s new disc.
Strap yourself in for the wide array of jazz stylings on The Shadows and the Light, a new release from
Chicago-based drummer and composer Quin Kirchner. There are textural Afro-Cuban workouts (“Batá
Chop),” funky, large-ensemble horn jams (“At This Point in Time”), Coltrane-style swingers (“Rift”), and
free explorations (“King Korn”). And whether he’s playing a simple rhythmic line as part of the tapestry
Sini Honkanen
or stepping out front with the drums taking charge, Kirchner leads with assured direction and technical
command. Check out his blazing-singles solo during the ending vamp on “Sahara” and his work on
Will Leeming
kalimba and congas on the assorted percussion interludes throughout the disc. At almost ninety minutes,
the album requires commitment and attention to get the full “on a journey” effect, but the collection of
sympathetic musicians involved and Kirchner’s strong compositions should satisfy those looking for some
adventure. (Astral Spirits) Ilya Stemkovsky

CRITIQUE
Adam Nussbaum Lead Belly Reimagined
Further jazz interpretations from the seminal folk-blues artist’s repertoire.
A follow-up to Adam Nussbaum’s previous release, The Lead Belly Project, this latest disc features classics such as “Rock
Island Line” as well as numerous deep cuts. Although the source material is a departure for the esteemed drummer,
Nussbaum’s sophisticated artistry has always preserved an earthy core. That balance of the refined and visceral
makes these tracks resonate, while respecting Lead Belly’s essence. Each track offers a distinctly different tableau, as
painted imaginatively by the tenor saxophone work of Ohad Talmor, the dual guitarist interplay of Steve Cardenas
and Nate Radley, and Nussbaum’s expressive drumming. The bass-less format lends extra flexibility for loose-limbed
grooves, like the brushwork on “Relax Your Mind” and the rollicking drumming on “Governor Pat Neff.” Along the
way, Nussbaum injects greasy second-line sounds into “Shorty George,” lends a sparkling drive to the wide-open
prairie sounds of “Laura,” and pulses the gentle lyricism of “Princess Elizabeth” with lush, sensual brushes. Lead Belly’s
influence has remained strong for a hundred years; Nussbaum embraces it all. (Sunnyside)
MD: You chose to use two guitarists on this record, yet this group, I just wanted two guys that really knew how
no bass. Why? to listen, because as time goes on I find that the people
Adam: Pretty simple. Lead Belly played a 12-string that play the best hear the best. The only instruction I
guitar. I figured, “I can’t find anybody that plays a gave to them was, “If one of you is in the upper register,
good 12-string, so let me get two great guys that play I want the other in the lower register.” I didn’t want
6-string.” The guitar covers a lot of frequency. And anyone duplicating anything. The way they bob and
without the bass, it opens up the possibility for other weave—they play their asses off, know how to listen and
things to happen as well. Listen, I learned about getting respond, plus there’s no ego there. That was basically it.
my groove, feel, and time together by playing with MD: Musicians from numerous genres—including rock,
great bass players, so nobody loves the bass more than blues, folk, and country—cite Lead Belly as a major
me. But this was something else; I wanted to follow a influence. But that’s not commonly so with jazz artists.
concept. But you clearly felt the connection.
MD: You’ve noted that the Lead Belly recordings you Adam: I’m inspired by all kinds of music and all kinds
absorbed in your childhood made a lasting impression. of art. As a kid I studied classical piano for five years.
How did that roots music impact you as you became When I started messing around with drums, I didn’t
immersed in jazz drumming? know what rudiments were until I was thirteen years
Adam: There’s a visceral quality that I find in any music old. But I was playing better than any of my friends who
that affects me emotionally. I was about five years old, were taking drum lessons, because I came to the drums
listening to those records. They were my parents’ LPs. I from music—I didn’t come to music from the drums.
was so inspired. As a child, you’re initially attracted to a The record that changed my life was Are You Experienced
record by looking at the cover. On one of those records by Jimi Hendrix. And then I heard Coltrane after that. I
he was wearing overalls and a bandanna, and the other always tell people, “I heard Elvin after Mitch Mitchell. I
showed him wearing a suit, playing the 12-string guitar. didn’t realize that Mitchell was profoundly influenced by
So it was the combination of rural and urban that, to Elvin.” I was always curious about the history. And I tried
me, was encompassing a lot of territory. And I just to find the commonality in good music—in any genre.
appreciated the honesty of the music. I’ll listen to João Gilberto, James Brown, Shirley Horn, Jo
MD: There’s a tendency with the quartet—especially Stafford, Frank Sinatra, the Who, Cream, the Band…you
with the dual guitars—not to depend on the layering of name it, I love it! I’m known as a “jazz guy” because that’s
parts, but rather on the intertwining of parts. Was that a the genre I’ve been most involved in. But I just love good
conscious choice? music, that’s it.
Adam: No, not at all. When I was initially thinking about Jeff Potter

Neil Saansson
JAZZ DRUMMER’S WORKSHOP
BOOKINGS
Liberty DeVitto’s
Life, Billy and the Pursuit of Happiness
W hen conversations turn to great drummers of the
classic-rock era, Liberty DeVitto’s name is invariably
near the top of the list. After appearing on the scene in
the mid-’70s, the New York native began a thirty-year
stint with pop icon Billy Joel, creating the grooves for
thirteen platinum albums, including twenty-two of Joel’s
twenty-three top-40 hits. DeVitto’s style, which combines
huge backbeats with expressive fills, anchored by an
enormous kick drum, can be found not only on such
classic Joel albums as Turnstiles, The Stranger, 52nd Street,
Glass Houses, and Storm Front, but on recordings by Meat
Loaf, Rick Wakeman, Carly Simon, Paul McCartney, and
Karen Carpenter.
DeVitto’s new memoir, Liberty: Life, Billy and the Pursuit
of Happiness, details his early career on Long Island,
going from the garage to weddings to nightclubs to
early Joel tours, his ascendence to the big time, and,
eventually, his dealings with fame: confronting its
challenges, enjoying its perks, and, sometimes, getting
tripped up by its pitfalls. A colorful writer, DeVitto
uniquely captures the stories behind Joel’s hits and the
people who helped make them. Liberty’s not shy about
getting personal or addressing his own shortcomings,
poignantly describing the heartache of losing family
and band members, his struggles with addiction, and his
personal and professional rebirth with the Lords of 52nd
Street, the Slim Kings, and Little Kids Rock, a non-profit
that brings music to schools whose funding has been
cut.
MD: How did the idea for your book come about?
Liberty: It was in the works for about fifteen years. My
wife suggested I write down my history for my kids. I
would put it away, and someone else would say, “You’ve
got so many good stories! Why don’t you write a book?”
So I’ve been honing this for a while.
MD: After thirty years as the quarterback of Billy’s band,
you were inexplicably let go. At the time the controversy
was that nobody actually knew why you had a falling
out in the first place. Could you shed some light on what Liberty: I think it was the Liberty sound from the beginning. From
really happened? the get-go, Billy, as the producer of the Turnstiles album, told me to
Liberty: When you’re in a whirlwind like Billy Joel’s, there are a play like I play. When [producer] Phil Ramone came in—he saw us
lot of layers—managers, road crew, other band members—and if at Carnegie Hall—he told us, “Play like the rock ’n’ roll maniacs that
somebody says something to the main man, which was Billy, and he you are.”
didn’t inquire with me about it…then he’ll believe what came from MD: You have a unique and intense presence on the drumset. When
the third party. I had no idea what was said. The bottom line was he you strike a drum, the listener feels each beat. Did you always play
“heard” something I really didn’t say, which came down to complete like that, even as a kid coming up?
misinformation. It was a shame that we weren’t friends anymore, Liberty: I always like to strike the rim of the drum; it’s my favorite
because we had done so much together. thing to do. What happens is, first you play in clubs and you raise
MD: It did every drummer’s heart good to see that you mended your arms. Then you play in theaters and your arms go higher. Then
fences and that your book’s foreword was penned by Billy. Your you play in arenas and outdoor concerts, and you realize there’s
drum sound is synonymous with his records, and was a large part of somebody in the back who came not only to hear your musicianship
his success. Did it evolve from record to record, or was it “the Liberty but to see a real “show,” and in turn your arms get even higher, as
sound” from the beginning? you tend to exaggerate [for effect].

MD: Who were some of your formidable drumming influences? poignant: River of Dreams, The Soviet Union, Vinny DeVitto, Losing
Liberty: Ringo, Dino Danelli of the Rascals, then Mitch Mitchell of Doug…. How difficult was it to revisit those times?
the Jimi Hendrix Experience, Cream’s Ginger Baker, and Jim Capaldi Liberty: It was very difficult, especially “Losing Doug.” My brother
of Traffic. Vinny was sick for two and a half years with AIDS. It was tragic to
MD: In Modern Drummer’s “Conversations” video series a few years watch him, but there was always hope. However, with [Joel band
back, you described what a huge fan of Dino Danelli you were. bassist] Doug Stegmeyer, it was all of a sudden—what happened?
Liberty: The first time I saw the Rascals, I saw Dino as a drummer That was really tough.
who was a total show unto himself. Ringo was great, and perfect MD: You insert “My Drum” vignettes between chapters and explore
for the Beatles, but you’d also keep your eye on John and Paul. You the correlation between the instrument and how it acted as a force
couldn’t keep your eyes off of Dino. He simply excelled, and he in your life. You also include an appendix titled “The DeVitto School
showed me that the drums could really be a featured item. for Music Business,” where you relay valuable music-management
MD: Phil Ramone says that a lot of Billy’s music was actually info to the reader.
produced in the studio courtesy of you and the rest of his backing Liberty: I had written a whole chapter on “My Drum.” My editor, Joe
musicians. You’ve credited Ramone with being a profound influence, Bergamini, said, “It’s the longest chapter in the book. How about we
guiding you through the studio process. chop it up and put it between the chapters?” The DeVitto School for
Liberty: Yes, definitely. When Phil was asked, “What made Billy Joel Music Business came about when I went to one of Billy’s managers
the phenomenon that he became?” he said, “He wrote great songs, looking for a raise in my paycheck. He responded with, “Let me
and his band came up with great arrangements.” It was really a explain something to you…!”
collaboration, where we helped one another. MD: You’ve accomplished so much in the world of drums—what are
MD: You’ve drummed on countless hits. Are there any songs that you embracing at the moment?
were particularly difficult to record? Liberty: Until the pandemic hit, the Lords of 52nd Street were
Liberty: On the Nylon Curtain album there was a song called beginning to travel around the world. Also, the Slim Kings. They are
“Scandinavian Skies.” There were drum fills on that song that they my hope to be recognized as “someone in a band,” totally on my
wanted me to duplicate three or four times. I had to memorize what own, and not just as “Billy Joel’s drummer.”
I’d already played. Bob Girouard
MD: Which songs, in your estimation, have stood the test of time?
Liberty: “Scenes from an Italian Restaurant,” “New York State of DeVitto plays Liberty drums and Sabian cymbals and uses
Mind,” and “Movin’ Out” come to mind. Promark sticks, Evans heads, and Tama hardware.
MD: There are certain chapters of the book that are particularly
BACK THROUGH THE STACK
Collis Davis Shaida

When drummers are playing, horn players should color the way
we color behind them.
To me, it’s a matter of imagination, and it also has something to do with
humility. Drummers have a great deal of humility in order to stay underneath
somebody all the time, give them support constantly, and get little reward for it.
I notice that in the history books, when they talk about new trends and things
that happened, they say, “This is the period of Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie
Parker; this is the period of Miles Davis; this is the period of Louis Armstrong;
this is the period of fusion; this is the period of rock….” They never say anything
about the drummers! But for every one of those things, the reason that there
is a change is rhythmic things. It has nothing to do with the horns. They’re still
going from C to F, or just doing an A minor mode or whatever it is. The rhythm [is
what] changed.
Max Roach
Modern Drummer, June 1982
moderndrummer.com/archive
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mfg

State of the ART.

©2020 DRUM WORKSHOP, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

CONTENTS Cover photo by Daniel Prakopcyk

8 DARU JONES 32 THE KILLERS’ 42 NICK MASON 54 SAVANNAH HARRIS

74 JAZZ DRUMMER’S WORKSHOP

78 NEW AND NOTABLE

6 READERS’ PLATFORM 86 BOOKINGS

Subscribe today at moderndrummer.com/subscribe

@ModernDrummer modern_drummer @modern_drummer

4 Modern Drummer January 2021

Does not include snare stand,

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F or certain drummers, it’s all about playing with a wide variety

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C an you believe it’s taken forty-plus years for an electronic drumset

Goodbye, Drum Rack!

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T he last time we checked in with Rancho Santa Fe, California–

12 Modern Drummer January 2021

January 2021 Modern Drummer 13

The Initial Seating

14 Modern Drummer January 2021

January 2021 Modern Drummer 15

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January 2021 Modern Drummer 17

18 Modern Drummer January 2021

20 Modern Drummer January 2021

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people’s attention spans are very short in

January 2021 Modern Drummer 23

24 Modern Drummer January 2021

In a crowd, Justin Tyson is unassuming. He’s

26 Modern Drummer January 2021

January 2021 Modern Drummer 27

28 Modern Drummer January 2021

January 2021 Modern Drummer 29

“There was this other thing I needed to involve in my

30 Modern Drummer January 2021

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S omewhere around the midpoint of

January 2021 Modern Drummer 33

34 Modern Drummer January 2021

Hardware: Drum Workshop

Percussion: Latin Percussion