Modern Drummer 11 2023

On Review: DW Purple heart Drums and Cymbal Swap
THE WORLD’S #1 DRUM COMMUNITY SINCE 1977 NOVEMBER 2023
Bryan Adams’
Pat Steward
King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard’s
Michael “Cavs” Cavanagh
New York Jazz Drummer

Jeremy Dutton
SP
VinnieECIAL!
A Different View with TranscColaiuta
“The D ription
eat
Dave Rath Horsiehless
”
Learn from:
Erskine • Morello • Rondinelli • Packer • Lesso
TM
CONTENTS
16 PAT STEWARD
Making Adjustments with Bryan Adams
By Mark Griffith
SPECIAL SIDEBAR
Bryan Adams on Drumming
and Pat Steward
28 MICHAEL “CAVS” CAVANAGH 34 JEREMY DUTTON 42 TECHRA DRUMSTICKS

The Rhythmic Force Behind King Gizzard & The Power of Community MD talks sticks with Techra’s
the Lizard Wizard By Mark Griffith Alessandro Bordignon
By Danny “Ziggy” Laverde By Mark Griffith
Volume 47 • Number 11
Cover photo by Bryan Adams
Inset photo by Maclay-Heriot LESSONS
Contents photo by Simon Ager
46 TRANSCRIPTION
Frank Zappa’s “The Deathless Horsie”
drumming by Vinnie Colaiuta
By Marc Atkinson
50 BASICS
Be Undeniable
By Chris Lesso
The Bass Drum Owners Manual 54 JAZZ DRUMMER’S WORKSHOP

Applying the Moeller Technique
to the Bass Drum Fill In Studies, Groups of Four
By Michael Packer
By Joe Morello
56 ROCK PERSPECTIVES
Skiplets
By Bobby Rondinelli
60 ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC

Groove Etude and Hi-Hat Substitutions
By Michael Packer
62 TEACHERS’ FORUM
Snare Drum Duets ”Duet 3”
By Ron Spagnardi
EQUIPMENT
10 NEW AND NOTABLE
Lauten Snare Mic, Alesis Nitro Max,
Zildjian Limited Edition Sticks
12 PRODUCT CLOSE UP
Reviews of Drum Workshop
Purple Core Shells and Cymbal Swap
DEPARTMENTS
4 EDITORS OVERVIEW 74 COLLECTOR’S CORNER
Transcriptions. Vocabulary. 1928 Ludwig Rialto and 1933 Ludwig
By Mark Griffith Pioneer Trap Kits
By Tim Northup
6 KIT OF THE MONTH
Phil Raskin’s Mysterious Traveller 76 OUT NOW
Modern Drummer details new recordings
8 JAZZ INSIGHTS that feature drummers: Bill Stewart, Tina
Drummers Make the World Go ‘Round Raymond, Brian Blade, Mike Clark, Billy Hart,
By Peter Erskine Gene Coye, Horacio “El Negro” Hernandez,
Jim Doxas, Johnathan Blake, and Dave
64 A DIFFERENT VIEW DiCenso’s new book.
A&R Person Dave Rath: It’s the Drums that
Make People Move 78 EYE CANDY
By Mark Griffith Nick Mason’s Solo Tour Set
AN EDITOR’S OVERVIEW
Transcriptions. Vocabulary.
Founder Ronald Spagnardi 1943–2003
T his month Modern Drummer
is glad to welcome Marc
Atkinson. Marc’s transcription
Co-Founder Isabel Spagnardi
of Vinnie Colaiuta’s drumming Publisher/CEO David Frangioni

on Frank Zappa’s “The Deathless COO Carolina Frangioni
Horsie” will astound you and leave
you laughing and bewildered.
Content Director Mark Griffith
Marc’s precision, attention to CTO Jason Mehler
detail, and his ability to recognize Senior Art Director Scott Bienstock
and notate Vinnie’s rhythmic Marketing and Collaboration Danny “Ziggy” Laverde
vocabulary is amazing. But don’t
just shake your head in sheer Photography & Archivist Felipe Laverde
amazement of Vinnie’s audacious Contributing Editor & Photographer Alex Kluft
playing and just turn the page. Videographer Tyson Francion
Reading a transcription is only “part” of the learning process.
Customer Service Dana Hernandez
Fortunately, in the case of “The Deathless Horsie” Marc has already done
that first part for us. After your amazement has subsided, use your ears,
THE MD PRO PANEL/ADVISORY BOARD: Chris Adler, Carmine Appice, Kenny
your eyes, and your limbs to start playing what you just read and heard. Aronoff, Bill Bachman, Eddie Bayers, Gregg Bissonette, Jason Bittner, Bill
Start slow, maybe just conquer one bar or one phrase a day. Before you Bruford, Will Calhoun,Terri Lyne Carrington, Matt Chamberlain, Peter Erskine,
know it, those phrases will become pages, and those pages will become Dom Famularo, Daniel Glass, Alex González, Danny Gottlieb, Benny Greb, Matt
solos. And they ALL become ideas and vocabulary. Halpern, Horacio Hernandez, Gerald Heyward, Taku Hirano, Jonathan Joseph,
Jim Keltner, Paul Leim, Peter Magadini, Pat Mastelotto, Rod Morgenstein,
We can also use Vinnie’s performance, and Marc’s transcription to Andy Newmark, Carl Palmer, Stephen Perkins, Dafnis Prieto, Rich Redmond,
inspire us to start developing, or further develop, our own transcription Brian Reitzell, Jim Riley, Bobby Rondinelli, Antonio Sánchez, Cindy Blackman
skills. This rhythmic ear training and sound identification will have a Santana, Chad Smith, Steve Smith, Todd Sucherman, Billy Ward, Kenny
profound effect on your playing. Like anything else, it begins as a slow Washington, Dave Weckl, Paul Wertico, Dennis Wolfe
process, but like everything else, the more you do it, the better you
CONTRIBUTING WRITERS: Donn Bennett, Clayton Cameron, Bob Campbell,
become. Peter Erskine, Dom Famularo, Bob Girouard, Mike Haid, Brian Hill, Daru Jones,
However, transcribing is only the first step. Playing your transcription Nic Kubes, Chris Lesso, Peter Magadini, James Petercsak, Tony Verderosa
to check your work, is the next step. The fun part is internalizing
what you have transcribed, and allowing the musical ideas within MODERN DRUMMER magazine (ISSN SUBSCRIPTION CORRESPONDENCE:
the transcription to become part of your own vocabulary. Finally, 0194-4533) is published digitally Modern Drummer, 1279 W. Palmetto
monthly and print bi-monthly by Park Rd, PO Box 276064, Boca Raton,
try creating new music with your newly learned vocabulary. For the MODERN DRUMMER Publications, FL 33427. Change of address: Allow
younger readers, this process will feel EXACTLY like your vocabulary Inc., 1279 W. Palmetto Park Rd PO at least six weeks for a change. Please
tests in school. Learn how to say a new word, learn how to spell it, learn Box 276064 Boca Raton, FL 33427. provide both old and new address and
what it means, and use it in a sentence (sound familiar?) PERIODICALS MAIL POSTAGE paid at send to [email protected]
Boca Raton, FL 33427 and at additional
Notes and words on a page that are left to themselves do and mean mailing offices. Copyright 2023 by POSTMASTER: Send address changes
nothing. For a creative person, those notes and words can jump from MODERN DRUMMER Publications, to Modern Drummer, 1279 W. Palmetto
the page into the air that surrounds us to become some of the greatest Inc. All rights reserved. Reproduction Park Rd PO Box 276064 Boca Raton,
things ever. That music and language can entertain, communicate to the without the permission of the publisher FL 33427.
masses, change people’s lives, and make the world a better place. And is prohibited.
Canadian Publications Mail Agreement
they are FREE for us to learn and use. EDITORIAL/ADVERTISING/ No. 41480017 Return undeliverable
There is MUCH more to come from Marc’s transcribing skills, and it ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: Canadian addresses to: PO Box 875, Stn
won’t all be as hard as “The Deathless Horsie.” There will be inspirational MODERN DRUMMER Publications, 1279 A, Windsor ON N9A 6P2
drum transcriptions from Rush, Miles Davis, Van Halen, Slipknot, The W. Palmetto Park Rd PO Box 276064
Boca Raton, FL 33427. MEMBER: National Association of Music
Police, Foo Fighters, and much more. Don’t let difficulty push you away, Email: [email protected]. Merchants, Percussive Arts Society
let it pull you in. Difficult or not, every transcription will provide at least
one “new word” to anyone who takes the time to examine the music MODERN DRUMMER welcomes
and drumming. So go ahead, learn some new vocabulary from where it manuscripts and photos but cannot
belongs, within the music! The process will be much more fun than your assume responsibility for them.
first period Language Arts class.
Subscribe today at moderndrummer.com/subscribe
Mark Griffith MODERN DRUMMER ONLINE: www.moderndrummer.com
Editor-in-Chief, Director of Content Music Key
@ModernDrummer modern_drummer @modern_drummer
4 Modern Drummer November 2023

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KIT OF THE MONTH
Mysterious Traveller
T his month’s Kit of the Month comes to us from Phil Raskin.

This Slingerland 12, 13, 14, 16, 18 set was originally owned by
drummer and educator Skip Hadden. The drums originally had a
natural finish but are now finished in black lacquer. The bass drum
originally had a heavy rough coat layer of green latex primer inside
of the shell, which was a remedy passed down by Alphonse Mouzon.
According to Skip, “It really rounded out the sound.” Many forget that
Skip played on the Weather Report album Mysterious Traveler (along
with drummer Ishmael Wilburn,) and these are the drums that Skip
played on that important record. Skip remembers that while Weather
Report was in the studio, Joe Zawinul also played these drums when
Joe was describing some parts for Skip to play. Hadden continues,
“It was an amazing time and perhaps many are still touched in some
way by that energy.” The set has since been played by jazz legend Billy
Hart, and by a very young Abe Laboriel Jr. when Phil was rehearsing
with his father, bassist Abraham Laboriel Sr. The set was restored by
Nodar Rode in 2012. Thanks to Phil Raskin for taking such great care
of these special drums.

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JAZZ INSIGHTS
Drummers Make the World Go ‘Round

By Peter Erskine
T his year marks the 400th anniversary

of the Avedis Zildjian Company.
Founded in 1623, Zildjian is the oldest
musical instrument company in the world
as well as the oldest company in the
USA. Zildjian has a great past because
it looks forward to the future. That said,
the Zildjian family generously shared the
spotlight of this celebration of its legacy
in Boston by honoring eight drummers
in a drumming concert for the ages.
Adding these eight drummers to its Hall
of Fame — an august list that includes (in and delightful Eddie Bayers, I’ve known (or maybe it was Joe Farrell’s band). Omar
alphabetical order) Ginger Baker, Louie all of the other inductees in one way or played on my drums. He was a knockout
Bellson, Hal Blaine, Art Blakey, Sidney “Big another for years. Terri Lyne Carrington: then, and he was a knockout when he
Sid” Catlett, Kenny “Klook” Clarke, Arron she was the child prodigy in Boston we all followed me in Weather Report after I left
“Baby” Dodds, Steve Gadd, Roy Haynes, heard about for years, and she has gone that band. He’s still a knockout, by the
Elvin Jones, Papa Jo Jones, Philly Joe on to leading the way both musically as way.
Jones, Gene Krupa, Shelly Manne, Earl well as ethically when it comes to making Dennis Chambers: EVERYBODY loves
Palmer, Buddy Rich, Max Roach, Arthur music. This Hall of Fame designation Dennis, and everyone loved Dennis when
“Zutty” Singleton, Dave Tough, Charlie is just one of many awards that crowd he came on the scene. How someone can
Watts, William “Chick” Webb and Tony the piano lid in her home. I remember reinvent what’s possible on the drumset
Williams — is a dream come true for this hearing one of her first recordings in 1986 while making it all look and feel like a
“Class of 2023.” Ladies and gentleman, I on a jazz radio station blindfold listening love fest is still a mystery to me. Dennis
introduce the newest inductee additions “test,” I did not know who it was, but I said followed me by joining Steely Dan after
to the Zildjian Hall of Fame: Eddie Bayers, out loud in the rental car I was driving, they let me go.
Terri Lyne Carrington, Dennis Chambers, “That’s how I wish I could sound.” We all arrived in Boston on an
Sheila E, Peter Erskine, Omar Hakim, Steve Steve Smith: he studied with me at a incredibly rainy Monday night. There
Smith, and Ringo Starr. Kenton Summer Camp in 1973 that was were some hugs, but it had been a long
Aside from Ringo Starr and Ed held on the campus of Towson State day. Everyone went to their rooms. The
Soph, I’ve enjoyed one of the longest University outside of Baltimore. Believe next day was sunny and, by any standard,
professional relationships with Zildjian of it or not, we were long-haired look-alikes perfect. The inductees met at the Berklee
their artists roster (50 that summer. Steve College of Music where Kenny Aronoff
years, having signed went on to play in hosted a drum class to end all drum
in 1973 when I was big bands himself classes. 50% inspirational/motivational
a young drummer before getting hired to and 40% drumming know-how, with 10%
playing in Stan play with jazz-fusion reserved for some humor, we all took
Kenton’s big band), violinist Jean-Luc turns sharing our experiences to a room
and I enjoyed being Ponty, and then the full of attentive students. The various
the “old man” at the rock bands Montrose points of view proved to be enlightening
four-day party that was and Journey. Even for all concerned. I know that I learned
the 400th Anniversary. though Steve is a a lot just by listening. And the beauty
On the morning of our bona-fide rock star, he of this gathering was that there was no
flight to Boston, we is the most assiduous terrible temptation to grab the mic in
ran into Sheila E at an drum student I know, order to steal the spotlight. This was a
LAX airport lounge. *still* exploring and bath to sit back, observe and soak in.
Seeing her prompted an instant trip practicing the art of jazz drumming. That evening was a rooftop reception
down Memory Lane for me, recalling how After his initial stint with Journey, Steve followed by a dinner where the food and
a 16-year-old Sheila Escovedo sat in with followed me by joining Steps Ahead after conversation were stellar. Company CEO
the Kenton band along with her father I left that band. Craigie Zildjian offered some generous
Pete and uncle “Coke” in San Francisco. I Omar Hakim: I first met Omar when remarks after dinner, and Kenny said a
can tell you without a doubt that Sheila he was drumming for trumpeter Tom few words about each of us after we all
was the best 16-year-old cowbell player in Browne and they played a warm-up received our awards. Okay, I decided to
the history of Northern California. spotlight set at the Jazz Lighthouse where grab the mic after all because the evening
Aside from the great Nashville-based I was working with George Cables’ band did not quite feel complete. I mentioned

each honoree, humorously emphasizing The other honorees that year were Louie be bonded together as the class of
how Steve, Omar and Dennis had all Bellson, Max Roach, and Roy Haynes. honorees inducted on this special
taken over the drum chair in bands I had Steve Gadd, Marvin”Smitty” Smith, birthday. When you think about it, that’s
left. Which was a set-up for me to offer and Terri Lyne Carrington were my pretty darn special.”
the following: “Two things I will never drumming colleagues on that magical Zildjian is a family, but we were ALL
leave: my wife, and the Zildjian Cymbal night. Being on the other end of the family that night, and the experience
family.” It opened a door for everyone stick, as it were, inspired profound seared an awareness and knowledge
else to say some nice things about each gratitude but also a realization that life into us that we ARE all family, this sister
other but mostly about the Zildjian is, indeed, a circle:. We are grateful for and brotherhood of the drums, which
family, legacy, and cymbals. all of the information and enjoyment in this case means drumSET which in
The best was yet to come on the big provided by the drumming masters we this case means CYMBALS. More than
day of the actual event, a reception and all grew up listening to, while realizing that, it means music. More than THAT,
concert that blew all of our minds. Each that the efforts of us younger drummers it means love. And in today’s world
new Hall of Fame inductee was honored might have done some good as well. and after everything that everyone has
by two drummers playing with a house Joe Testa expressed it better than I. been through these past few years, the
band that was put together by drummer In an email to the new inductees, he expression of that love simply makes
Gary Novak. Drummer Fred Armisen wrote: “The Zildjian roster is the best the world a better place as far as we, us
hosted the show. He was hilarious as in the business, and Zildjian drummers, are
well as gracious. The producer of the that greatness runs concerned … I hope as
show was Eric Liederman (of the Late VERY deep through far as anyone reading
Night with Seth Meyers television show), many levels. No this is concerned, too.
and Eric is a drummer too. The stage other company in the Life is short, the music
manager was Jeff Wallace who was a business has anything community is our
drummer. The full Zildjian and Vic Firth close. However, for this family, and the drums
artist relations team, led by Joe Testa, year – at this time (the are FUN. Just look at the
along with two of his teammates Kirsten 400th) - you and only joy in everyone’s faces.
Matt and Eric Gross, were especially you eight were chosen This is a short article
INSTRUMENTAL in putting all this for the Hall of Fame. with lots of photos, or
together and — you guessed it – all Your choosing was NOT this is a photo essay
drummers (okay, Kirsten is an honorary random, and it certainly with too-long of a text
drummer). There were literally more was not flippant. It intro. Either way, it was
drummers than you could shake a pair was very intentional one of the best days of
of sticks at, and everyone performed so and purposeful. The our lives.
beautifully. THOSE drummers include: family and all of us here The day after? A visit
Gorden Campbell, Adam Deitch, Josh at Zildjian recognize to the Zildjian factory.
Dun, Justin Faulkner, Chris Fryar, Marcus your very exceptional Always a highlight,
Gilmore, Evan Hutchins, Roni Kaspi, Russ talents, contributions this time better than
Miller, Adam Nussbaum, percussionist to music, commitment usual because Zildjian
Marc Quinones, Antonio Sanchez, Jamie- to the art of drumming is making some new
Leigh Schultz, Nate Smith, Ash Soan, and loyalty to Zildjian cymbals that sound as
Aaron Spears, and Devan Taylor. Holy – both the instrument good or better than the
Guacamole. and the legacy. To see good old days cymbals.
Justin Faulkner and Adam Nussbaum you all come together for our 400th to More on that in the future.
played in my honor, with maestro be honored – was just awe inspiring and Ringo. I’ve never met the man in-
Faulkner surprising me by performing very emotional. person, but who amongst us does NOT
a composition of mine titled “Sweet As you start to come down from the feel as if they’ve known him for their
Soul” to perfection, segueing into “Black high of the show, it is our hope that entire life? His drumming has been the
Market” from the Weather Report book. you will come to cherish, more and world’s best friend for almost 60 years.
I told Justin afterwards that Joe Zawinul more each day forward, your part in I’d love to be able to shake his hand one
and Wayne Shorter would have LOVED this momentous event. It was much day and say, “thank you.” For now, I will
the way he played that tune. Adam deeper than a great night of music thank everyone at Zildjian, as well as
Nussbaum pulled out his brushes and and celebration. It was historical. It is shout out to all drummers, “Drummers
played a swinging rendition of the John an event that is now engraved into make the world go ‘round.” To quote Mr.
Abercrombie tune “Ralph’s Piano Waltz.” I the pages of Zildjian’s 400-year (and Starr: “All you need is love.”
was all smiles and all tears, and I was not counting) storyline. Forever forward,
alone in experiencing this reaction. Each people will look back at this moment
honoree was gob smacked by the love in time and remember ‘you’ as the
Check out Peter’s
and the beat. honorees specifically selected for this drummer profile page,
It took me back twenty-five years celebratory moment. I hope that brings and get a copy of
when I was fortunate enough to play you as much pride as it does us. And his Legends book at
in honor of Elvin Jones when he was finally, something kinda cool to think moderndrummer.com
inducted into the Zildjian Hall of Fame. about … the eight of you will forever

Lauten Audio Snare Mic
Family-owned microphone maker, Lauten Audio, has
announced the release of Snare Mic — a purpose-built FET
condenser microphone designed explicitly for use on snare
drums. At only 4.2” in size, Snare Mic is optimized for use in
small spaces while delivering the impact, nuance, and distinct
characteristics of a snare drum without the drawbacks of
traditional solutions. Snare Mic’s carefully tuned frequency
response, ultra-high dynamic range, and rejection of up to
28dB of off-axis sounds ensure professional, mix-ready results
straight out of the box.
Celebrating the snare

“Snare drums are the lifeblood of music. When you’re in a room
with one, you don’t just hear it. You feel it in your bones. That
sensation is REALLY difficult to capture, which is why people
throw so many microphones, post-processing, and even sound
replacement at snare drums,” said Lauten Audio President Trent
Thompson. “Our goal with Snare Mic was to make that process
easy — one microphone that captures the totality of a snare
drum without needing to do all of those other things.”
Massive sound, Minimized Bleed

Snare Mic is built from the ground up for getting the optimal
snare drum sound in any scenario where miking drums is
required. Snare Mic’s compact, hand-tuned capsule and wide
frequency response provides enveloping, three-dimensional
sound, while its superior off-axis rejection keeps that sound
clear and focused with optimal phase coherence so that it engineered for ease of use, long-term durability, and reliability.
can fit more easily into a mix. This enables Snare Mic to easily At 4.2”in length it fits effortlessly within even the most
replace a traditional multi-mic setup while still capturing every densely populated of drum kits and works equally well in both
nuance of a snare hit – from the attack of the initial impact to stand and rim-mounted applications. Snare Mic’s solid brass
the resonant decay of the drum head. Snare Mic’s onboard HP headframe, vibration-resistant capsule design, and mildew-
and LP filters also provide additional tone shaping at the source resistant dust filter protect it from stick hits and debris, ensuring
to make it easier than ever to dial in the exact sound required it will continue to provide incredible snare drum sounds for the
without turning any knobs at a control desk. long haul. Snare Mic is available now for $398 US Street / MSRP
As with all Lauten Audio microphones, Snare Mic has been $549.
Alesis Nitro Max

The Nitro Max is an eight-piece kit
centered around next-generation Alesis
mesh drumhead technology. Pairing
explosive sound quality with ultra-quiet
external operation, this is the ideal kit for
any beginner-to-intermediate drummer
looking for a realistic, responsive playing
experience in a compact set that is easy
to transport, set up, and store.
Whether practicing, creating, or
recording, the Nitro Max includes a range
of features to suit players of any genre
or style. Perfect for honing your skills,
this kit includes Bluetooth connectivity
for seamless play-along from Spotify,
Apple Music, and other services. It also
includes 400 professionally designed
drum sounds from software industry
leader BFD and three months of premium
access to Drumeo, the world’s largest
online platform for drumming tuition and
practice.
The Ultimate Companion

in Digital Percussion
The Nitro Max kit has a large 10” dual-
zone mesh snare drum, a kick drum
tower, and three 8” mesh toms. It

comprises a complete drum kit consisting toms, 10” dual-zone snare, and kick drum -Easy play-along with streaming music
of three 10” cymbals, custom-designed tower from your phone or tablet via Bluetooth
Alesis hi-hat pedal and kick pedal, and -Three-piece, dual-zone 10” cymbal set “The previous Nitro Mesh Kit was
a durable four-post aluminum rack. with hi-hat, crash w/ choke, and ride w/ extremely popular around the world” says
Also included is all the cabling, the choke Director of Product Management John
power supply, sticks, and drum key. It -All-in-one solution: pedals, drum key, Boudreau. “The Alesis mesh drumheads
all connects to the Nitro Max electronic drumsticks, cables, and all mountings were a huge leap forward—drummers
drum module, which has 440 drum and included loved them as their responsiveness
percussion sounds, 40 drum kits, and 60 -Ultra-realistic drum sounds from made them incredibly playable, but their
built-in play-along tracks. The Nitro Max industry-leader BFD (over 40 kits and 440 quietness was perfectly suited to home
drum module includes the convenience sounds) use. With Nitro Max, we’ve held on to the
of Bluetooth as well as a built-in cradle to -60 play-along tracks, sequencer, coach things people value in the mesh heads
hold your tablet or smartphone. mode, metronome, and recorder but added a new larger snare and even
-Unlimited premium drum lessons better sounds. We also added Bluetooth
Alesis Nitro Max Drum Kit Features for three months with Drumeo (a $90 so you can practice along to streaming
-Alesis mesh drumheads for an authentic additional value) services.
playing feel with minimal external noise -One month of interactive learning with The Nitro Max kit is now available for
-Five-piece pad set with 8” dual-zone Melodics visual app $399 USD. Visit alesis.com to order yours.
Beyerdynamic M Series Microphones

Beyerdynamic has announced that its updated
M Series microphones are now available for
purchase. The unified, sleek design combines
tradition and future without altering the
tried-and-tested acoustic signature of the
microphones.
For decades, M Series microphones have
helped professional sound technicians, musicians
and producers create unique recordings and
unforgettable concert moments. Microphones
such as the M 160, M 88 and M 201 are
considered masterpieces of audio history
due to their excellent sound quality. They’ve
accompanied icons like Jimi Hendrix, The Rolling
Stones, Phil Collins, Dua Lipa, and more.
The technical attributes and natural sound
characteristics of the M Series microphones make
them extremely flexible and suitable for many
different applications, including percussion,
piano, bass, choir and speech.
Beyerdynamic’s high degree of in-house production is production. The two double ribbon microphones are particularly
unusual - and particularly special. “While other manufacturers difficult to manufacture, which is why only a few employees
buy circuit boards, membranes or entire capsules from external are currently able to do so. That tradition will carry on with
suppliers, we manufacture a large number of these sound- the newly designed series, but will add the benefit of a
relevant components for the M Series microphones ourselves,” more streamlined production and build process to enhance
said Thorsten Bender, director of production at beyerdynamic. everything from logistics to servicing. The M Series microphones
The M 130 and M 160 are prime examples of this delicate are available now on beyerdynamic’s e-shop starting at $249.
Zildjian Limited Edition Sticks

In celebration of 400 years, the Zildjian Limited
Edition 400th Anniversary bundle includes four
pairs of 5A drumsticks, each celebrating a unique
moment in the long and storied history of the
world’s most recognizable name in percussion.
From the first strike of the anvil at the Sultan’s
palace to the 16th generation of Zildjian family
members today, this collection pays homage to
400 years of innovation. Included in the bundle is
a unique drummer’s towel only available as part
of this limited edition offering.
-Features four pairs of drumsticks, each
celebrating a different period in Zildjian history.
-5A is the world’s most popular drumstick size,
great for all styles of playing.
-Includes a bundle-exclusive drummers towel,
only available as part of this collection.
-Packaged in a 400th Anniversary
commemorative box.
zildjian.com

PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
Drum Workshop’s New Hybrid Purple Core Shells

Serious Low-End with Serious Durability
By Brian Hil
D rum Workshop’s John Good has been experimenting for

years with a hybrid shell idea that would provide the
lowest fundamental tone from a drum shell without sacrificing
To be completely transparent, long before playing this kit,
I’d heard about this idea, and was totally intrigued with what
I had read about Purple Core shells. Purpleheart wood is an
strength. After much experimenting, he finally succeeded. That extremely dense and rigid hardwood that exudes strength and
prompted DW to send Modern Drummer a four-piece drum set low-end response. After much research, I had to hear one for
to see what we thought. myself. I pulled the trigger and ordered a Maple Purple Core

snare drum for my kit, and it did not disappoint! My DW Purple only one horizontal ply throughout the shell, we’ve created a
Core 6 x 14 snare drum really has a fundamental pitch that is drum with a really low frequency, but with all of the attack and
on par with my 18 x 22 DW kick drum. Wow! I began to wonder presence that we wanted.”
what the corresponding toms and kick would sound like. Now, I DW sent Modern Drummer a 5.5 x 14 snare, an 8 x 12 rack tom,
have this whole Purple Core kit in front of me, and this is what I a 14 X 16 floor tom and a 16 x 22 kick drum, all in a very cool
found. Rose Copper over Maple finish with chrome hardware. The shells
Let’s start from the beginning. John Good says, “This is a big for this kit are made from a nine-ply Maple and Purpleheart
breakthrough for us. We’ve been searching for a way to make a combination that have three plies of Purpleheart sandwiched
shell from mostly short grain (vertical) veneers for a long time between three plies of Maple on each side. Because of the
but we wanted it to be something that would stand the test density and strength of the Purpleheart plies, the center ply of
of time. The nature of Purpleheart allows us to do this. With Purpleheart is the only ply in the shell running horizontally. The
other eight plies of Maple and Purpleheart are running vertically.
This combination places very little outward stress on the shell,
and with the “purple core,” an extremely low fundamental pitch
can finally be realized. A three-ply reinforcement ring further
maintains structural integrity and provides for a more focused
note. I would also have to think that the outer finish wrap adds
further strength to the overall integrity of the shell.
Maple delivers maximum resonance, projection, and attack.
However, Cherry and Mahogany woods are also available in
place of Maple. Cherry has a distinctive melodic clarity with a
warmer tonality compared to Maple. Mahogany is a softer wood
that boosts the low-end and allows a deeper, richer, and darker
sounding tone. The Mahogany and Purpleheart combination
could arguably produce the lowest sounding of the three wood
combinations. Like most DW Drums, these tubs responded
nicely and quickly to a wide range of tuning, but I really like
them tuned a bit lower than some other drums that I play. This
kit has a big sound that projects far into the room and won’t get
lost in the mix. They really rock!
The two toms for this kit came standard with the new
AA Drumheads from Remo, which is a 2-ply head providing
maximum durability and sonic clarity on the batter side. I think
that they also help with the low-end response. The snare and
kick came with DW’s standard Remo heads. All hoops and
hardware for the drums are DW’s top-of-the-line, as are the
drums themselves.
DW also sent over a selection of hardware that included a
5000 Single Bass Pedal and a 5500 Hi Hat. Several 9000 Series
Straight/Boom Cymbal Stands, Double Tom Stand, Drum Throne,
and a 9300 Snare Stand rounded out the set of hardware. You
can’t go wrong with any combination of DW Hardware. I know
because I’ve been using DW hardware and pedals for about
three decades.
DW offers Purple Core kits in a large selection of custom shell
sizes, finishes, and hardware combinations. You can definitely
get the kit you want. As I said, when I first heard about, and
started researching DW’s Purple Core shells, I had to see and
hear them for myself. Everything that I learned in my Physics of
Sound class at Belmont University made me question whether
DW’s goal could actually be accomplished. I’m happy to say
that sometimes it’s good to be re-educated. These drums
have the lowest natural fundamental note of any drums that I
have played, and they are very durable and solid in strength.
Physics says it shouldn’t be possible… I think John Good has
shown us that it is! If you want dynamic sounding low-end from
your drums, you need to check out DW Purple Core drums!
dwdrums.com

PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
Cymbal Swap
Try Cymbals Before You Buy
By Jason Mehler
I f you’ve ever shopped for cymbals, you know that it can be

frustrating and expensive to find the perfect cymbal that
harmonizes flawlessly with your drum kit and produces the
shopping cart. You choose a rental period and then place your
order. The cymbals will be shipped to you and the rental period
does not begin until the cymbals show up at your doorstep. You
sound you desire. A new service called Cymbal Swap is looking then simply return the cymbals using the provided return label
to change the way you shop for cymbals. This month’s Product unless you choose to make a purchase.
Close-Up is more of a “Service Close-Up”, as we give the Cymbal If you like any of the cymbals you’ve rented and wish to
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the “Buy Now” button from the current rentals screen, next to the
What is Cymbal Swap? cymbals you desire.
According to their website “Cymbal Swap is the first and only
online cymbal rental service in the US, giving drummers the My Perspective
flexibility to try out various cymbals and experiment with For me, the whole idea of trying cymbals before buying them
different sounds, before committing to purchase”. is very intriguing. Growing up as a middle-class kid, purchasing
nice cymbals was almost out of the question. Most of my early
How does it work? cymbals were hand-me-downs or throw-aways from friends. Once
Using their online platform, you can browse a large selection I entered the workforce and was able to make a cymbal purchase,
of cymbals from various manufacturers and add them to your it turned out to be a very stressful experience. What Brand? What

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type? What if it sounds like to reach out to Cymbal Swap for their recommendation. I was
crap on my drum kit and with more interested in trying out the lesser-known brands and I knew
my other cymbals? Can I return they would have better insight, having procured those cymbals in
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out to be a lot harder than I mentioned to them that I was looking for thin, dark tones
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As time passed, I secured recommendation and added the following cymbals to my cart:
my first endorsement deal -20” Timothy Roberts Landmark Ride
with a well-known cymbal -15” Constantine Relax Hi-Hats
brand where I was able to -22” Royal Cymbals Cymbal Craftsman Nefertiti Style Ride
hand pick my cymbals from -18” Bosphorus Master Series Crash
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Even then, I found it very between $1.75 and $2.45/each per day. My order came out to be
stressful because the rep was about $9 per day in rentals with a minimum of seven-day rental.
following me around and I felt So, for the cost of $63 plus shipping, I was able to rent about
a bit of pressure to just pick $2,000 worth of cymbals for a week. Not a bad price to discover
something and be on my way. new cymbal varieties without being obligated to purchase them.
Other questions went through
my head like: What if I like a Cymbal Arrival and Testing
cymbal from another brand? The cymbals arrived via UPS ground in about three days. They
What if this brand doesn’t were well-packaged in a single box, each individually wrapped in
have the right cymbal to fit the corrugated cardboard wrapping. Included in the box was the UPS
music we play? return label and a thank you/welcome letter from Cymbal Swap.
In my view (without any I set up the cymbals on my Beech Custom Yamaha kit. It was
statistics to back it up), I think a good match of cymbals and (to be honest) I loved them all.
many drummers settle for The recommendations were spot on. The 20” Timothy Roberts
mediocre cymbals because ride sounds great and can work as a crash-ride as well. The 18”
they don’t have the time Bosphorus Crash is clean & powerful and also sounds great. My
and resources it takes to find favorite cymbals however were the 15” Constantine Relax hats
the perfect cymbal match and the 22” Royal Cymbals Nefertiti Ride. The hi-hats were just
or to even develop a broad so smooth and easy to control dynamically and tonally. The 22”
understanding of the diverse sounds that various cymbals offer Ride is spectacular! If I could only purchase one cymbal from
as a basis for comparison. the batch, the 22” ride would stay with me. It is so versatile that I
spent 30 minutes just experimenting and striking with different
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video demonstration of the cymbal.

Simon Ager

Making Adjustments with Bryan Adams
By Mark Griffith
Y ou might know drummer

Pat Steward’s name, but you’ve
definitely heard his drumming. Pat’s
relentless drive on iconic Bryan
Adams songs like “Kids Wanna Rock,”
“Summer of ‘69” and “One Night
Love Affair” makes them jump out
of the speakers. Pat has also played
with Odds, Colin James, Jann Arden,
Matthew Good, and Australian rocker
Jimmy Barnes. But after 38 years
of (on and off) playing in Bryan
Adams’ touring band and on Bryan’s
records— Pat has an interesting
and educational story to tell about
playing great songs, creating and
learning drum parts, the ups and
downs of the music business, and
building a long career as a successful
and in-demand drummer.

PS: I just started playing music in high school. I was already into have the money. So I actually
music, like all of us were at 15 or 16. I don’t know if there were taught at the college that I
ever career aspirations there, but it’s all really because of The graduated from for a year or
Beatles. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was five when Sgt. so. Meanwhile, I had a band
Peppers came out and my dad had it on reel to reel, occasionally that was playing classic blues
the family would gather, and he would play Sgt. Peppers. It’s such rock stuff, but the guitarist
an amazing record, but the thing that got me most excited was and I morphed that band
the song “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.” That floor tom hit into a pop-ska band called
before it goes into the chorus. My parents bought me a snare Rubber Biscuit. That’s when I
drum, I took piano lessons for a while, and a couple of years later discovered a band called XTC
I started going to this guy’s house that had all these drum sets in through a drumming mentor.
his basement for lessons. I started listening to XTC and
I don’t recall what was my first beat, but fast forward to about their record Drums and Wires
1974, when Bad Company’s first album came out, and “Can’t which is an insanely good
Get Enough of Your Love” was all over the radio. I had a friend record. Later, I fell in love with
whose older brother played drums. One day he said “Check this XTC’s Black Sea record, which
out, he put on the headphones, and he dropped the needle on might be my favorite record
that song. I knew the song, and I watched him play it, then he of theirs. Terry Chambers is a
handed me the headphones, and said, “You play it.” I remember fantastic drummer! Between
going home for dinner and
thinking, “I gotta get some
drums and a stereo!” The next
summer I painted my Dad’s
house and made 200 bucks
I just started playing music
and bought a stereo and
headphones at Radio Shack.”
My last three years of high
in high school. I was already
school were in a little town in
Canada called Powell River,
I had a great band teacher.
into music, like all of us were
By grade 11 or 12, that band
teacher got me into every
school, community, stage,
at 15 or 16. I don’t know
and concert band that he
could find. He just worked
his magic. I didn’t care what
if there were ever career
kind of music I was playing. I
even showed up at 7:00 AM
at marching band practice aspirations there, but it’s all
in the parking lot. Then my
buddies and I started a band
playing Van Halen, AC/DC, really because of The Beatles
Simon Ager
and Zeppelin and the Dixie

Dregs. Then I heard about
fusion and Return to Forever
with Lenny White, Brand X with Phil Collins, anything with Steve fusion, The Police and XTC, I
Gadd, and Tony Williams Believe It. I was hooked. Believe It was had really found a musical and
pivotal for me, I put my head in the sand and listened to nothing drumming approach that I
but fusion for a while. But when the first Police and the first Van liked.
Halen records came out, that really turned my head around and My band Rubber Biscuit worked around Vancouver for a while,
I pulled my head out of the sand. I spent a lot of time listening and one rainy night in 1984 we were playing at a little bar, and
to the second side of the Police’s Regatta De Blanc, I can still hear two guys came in and were literally the only people in the place.
things that I play that I got from that record. They seemed to really like the band. Between sets we talked for
After high school, I found out that there was a town nearby a bit, and those two guys turned out to be Bryan Adams and his
that had a college with a two-year music program. I knew about guitarist Keith Scott. Bryan had some initial success in Canada
big band jazz, but I didn’t know about small combo jazz, but and the US, and had just come off touring Cuts Like A Knife.
a band came to our high school playing Real Book tunes and During our talk, I recognized them and gave them my number.
I thought, “That’s what I want to do!” I went to that school and We got together a few times to jam, and eventually Bryan gave
started taking lessons from a great teacher in Vancouver named me two tapes and asked me to learn his music for the next
Jim Chivers, it’s always about widening my musical spectrum. week’s jam. They were just starting to record the album Reckless,
After I was done at the two-year college, I wanted to go to a which was actually Bryan’s fourth record, and it all went from
better school like North Texas State, but my family didn’t really there. Little did I know he planned to get me to play on a few

songs, one of them being “Summer of PS: Sometimes it just comes down
’69”.
Pat’s Favorite Albums to “Put on a pair of headphones and
MD: I have found that for so many Beatles: Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts start playing!” I am always impressed
kids, learning the drums can be Club Band, Abbey Road; Deep Purple: when kids find music and take the
relatively easy. But what to do after Machine Head; Led Zeppelin: II, IV; initiative to play in school and start a
that becomes more difficult. But you band with their friends. It’s also great
just laid out the process. Fall in love Black Sabbath: s/t, Vol. 4; Rush: Fly By when an adult starts to learn music
with music, start to play in a basic Night, 2112; Tony Williams: Believe It; (and drums) later in life because they
sense, take some lessons, learn how Lenny White: Return of the Astral Pirates, didn’t have the time, or maybe they
everything in drums and music works, played as a kid, life got in the way, and
Streamlined; Brand X: Unorthodox
keep listening and expanding your they stopped. It’s also great to see how
musical spectrum, play in school and Behaviour, Masque, Product; Chick Corea many women and girls are playing
anywhere you can, find some friends Three Quartets; Police: Regatta De Blanc; drums and just killing it! I just saw a
who play music and play with them, XTC: Black Sea; John Scofield: All. clip of a 19-year-old girl just slamming
and keep repeating that process. it on the Los Cabos Drumstick website.

MD: You have mentioned some drumming mentors, what were session, and he loved it.
their names, and how did they help you along the way? At that time, I had been playing all these forward momentum
PS: Barry Taylor was my first mentor who turned me on to all Copeland-esque inspired grooves. But with Bryan, I was playing
the fusion music of the mid 70’s and XTC. He played drums in a to a click and that was all new to me. I was just trying to be
band called K Tell (aka Young Canadians) and the leader was Art as good at playing to the click as I could, but that (probably)
Bergman. They are legendary Vancouver punk rock guys who provided a sort of an urgency to the feel. These days it’s just
were pretty well known for a period of time. I went to a couple of normal to play to one, it can be more creative with loops and
their rehearsals; those three guys were so powerful. Their songs percussion, that’s way more fun.
were pop songs with a punk and new wave intensity. Barry was MD: So how does all of this lead up to laying it down for one of
five years older than me, and he turned me on to fusion at a the best songwriters in rock and roll (Bryan Adams)?
time when I was way into Kiss, Rush, and Classic 70’s rock. Bryan’s PS: They had started recording Reckless at Little Mountain in
guitarist Keith Scott and I still listen to a lot of that music with Vancouver with Bob Clearmountain and Keith asked me to come
Lenny White, Steve Gadd, Billy Cobham, and Tony Williams in the by. I went down and they were tracking “Somebody” with Mickey
dressing room. Curry, they had just finished, and the guys came in the control
My high school band teacher, Travis McDonough, was a good room. I was excited, blown away, and a little intimidated to be
mentor, we were playing big band music and I wanted to learn there. Then Mickey goes back out and he and Bryan start doing
more about it so he would give me some records to listen to. some fill options. That’s why Bryan’s records are amazing, he’s
When I got to college, the head of the jazz department and I about getting amazing
would hang out. I had
been doing gigs, so I
knew how to play, but
at the time, I was a self-
taught rocker. He taught
I just love listening to all
me about Max Roach
and Philly Joe Jones.
All that music is still a
styles of good music. Some
lesson. I listen to lots of
that when I’m traveling.
I just love listening to
people say that the records
good music, all styles.
Some people say that
the records that you
that you really love are some
really love are some of
your greatest mentors
and best lessons.
of your greatest mentors and
MD: How did you
funnel these different
influences like the
best lessons.
Police, the new wave
stuff, fusion, and small
group jazz into playing rock music? drum takes and different
PS: It’s all about the energy. When I listen to ”Kids Wanna Rock” fill options to make
the moment we started recording that song, it was all about the parts of the songs
chaneling that punk energy and influences from new wave that I connect really well. I sat
had. I wasn’t super into AC / DC at the time we recorded Reckless, there and listened to
but I realize now that there’s stuff on Bryan’s records that is very the track, I just couldn’t
much like (AC/DC’s) Angus and Malcolm Young. Simple and believe the sound I was
straight ahead. hearing. Bob brought
MD: Would you play anything differently today? new micing techniques
PS: No way! I was young when I did those first recordings with to a dead studio and got
Bryan, and I’m super proud of how they’ve stood up, and even this massive Bonham-ish
inspired people, I mean check out all of the videos with people drum sound. I had never
trying to play “Summer of ‘69” on YouTube. When I listen to “One heard anything sound
Night Love Affair” today, it sounds like Malcolm Young and Phil that good. Bryan, Keith,
Rudd. The bass drum just plays on one and three all through the and I had hung out and
verse, but I would probably let it sit differently today, because jammed a half a dozen
I have listened to so much Phil Rudd since then. I had already times, and then they
heard the demo for “One Night Love Affair” which had drums on went to New York to do
Simon Ager
it. Jim Valance and Bryan are writing partners, and Jim is a great some more guitars and
drummer, so you listen to the demo and think, “Yeah that’s what overdubs. I just recently
needs to happen.” But Bryan had already recorded that song found out that they had
with other drummers, and dropped me on top during the ‘69 already cut a version of

“Summer of ‘69” and they for the next tour. That’s when
thought the Reckless record
was done. But Bryan had
Pat Loves Anything With Drummers: Keith and Bryan came down
to see my band playing all
written “Kids Wanna Rock,” Ringo Starr, John Bonham, Ian Paice, Bill Ward, Neil Peart, this crazy Rubber Biscuit ska
and wasn’t happy with the Peter Criss, Lenny White, Phil Collins, Tony Williams, Steve stuff and Bryan asked me
version of “Summer of ‘69” Gadd, Stewart Copeland, Terry Chambers, Chris Layton, to come in a record a few
he felt it wasn’t there yet. songs. Bryan wanted the
Max Roach, Philly Joe Jones, Steve Jordan, Bill Stewart.
He also wanted to record drummer on the record to
“One Night Love Affair.” be on the tour, that’s when
So, we got together at the I joined Bryan’s band for the
jam place a few more times and then went into Little Mountain first time, I was 22.
Studios in Vancouver and got to work. I played drums on those After Reckless, we toured relentlessly and started working
three songs. on the next record, Into The Fire. Bryan is always clear with his
MD: Was Mickey Curry in the band or just doing the records? communication. He gave me the 10 songs that he was going
PS: He was just tracking the records. Here’s how everything to record, we recorded for a few days on a bunch of songs and
happened. They had finished touring Cuts Like a Knife and were Mickey came to town and tracked a bunch of the same stuff.
getting ready to make Reckless, they also had to find a drummer During that process, Mickey said he was available because Hall

and Oates were not doing anything, and he was available to I always respected what Jim was doing on the demos. You can
join Bryan’s band. So he was in, and I was temporarily out. Bryan hear some of his drumming on the 11 record, and the Reckless
had wanted him for a while and it happened. It was hard for me 35th Anniversary Edition.
at the time but Bryan and I got together one afternoon, and Recently I had to learn a couple of new songs Bryan had
he told me what was going on and we kept the the door open played drums on. I love his super Phil Rudd vibe. I might not
which was good thing, because things have come full circle. have done that, so THAT’S the influence and learning part.
MD: I love Mickey’s playing too! Mickey is a criminally Along those same lines, listening to what (songwriter and
unrecognized drummer, and you have listened to his playing drummer) Don Henley played on those first two or three Eagles
(probably) more than most, so what is it about Mickey that records is monumental. I grew up hearing those songs, and as
makes him so wonderful. you get older, I appreciate all of Don’s playing more.
PS: Good feel. On most of Bryan’s early records there’s a MD: What was your early experience of playing with a click like?
song with a feel that is kind of like a slowed down version of PS: When we recorded in 1984, they were using the Linn drum
Nazareth’s song “This Flight Tonight.” His songs “Fits Ya Good,” for writing so that was sort of the click track. In those days I
“Cuts Like A Knife”, “Somebody,” and “In the Heat of the Night,” wasn’t confident with it, they had a hand clap and probably a
all have that same classic feel. It’s so Bonham. You could just shaker and I was just worried about messing it up. It was new
practice what kind of drumming compliments that feel for years. to me. I was a bit frantic so I had to make sure that every time
Bryan is a drummer too, lately he’s been playing drums on a that thing beeped, I came down tight on the back beat. I’ve
most of his recent recordings, discovered over the years that
and he has always been into you can get so in sync with
drums. That’s why there’s
always been great drums on
his albums. Sometimes when
Bryan is a drummer too, that click that the nature of the
sound of the snare drum will
cancel the click, and you don’t
Bryan goes to the chorus, he
wants you to play the bell of
the ride. You can hear that that
lately he’s been playing hear anything.
MD: Burying the click and
having the click disappear can
quarter note drive on many of
the records. He doesn’t want
the ride cymbal. If you listen
drums on most his recent be daunting, unless you know
what’s happening.
PS: Yes, exactly.I was playing
to Reckless, there’s no question
about what has to happen in
each arrangement, and you
recordings and has always one time, and I was so on it that
I didn’t hear anything, and I
stopped playing. I thought the
need to play that arrangement
and those parts to make it as
good as it is. These days when
been into drums. That’s engineer had stopped the click
and the take, and I thought I’d
help out by just stopping.
it comes to playing parts, Bryan MD: What gigs did you do in the
just says, “Just do your thing,
make it your own,” that’s always
why there’s always been time you weren’t playing with
Bryan?
good to hear. One time way PS: After the Reckless tour,
back, he told me that it was
fine to come up with some of
great drums on his albums. Bryan’s Manager Bruce Allen
started managing Jimmy Barnes,
my own ideas and parts, but who is a powerhouse singer
just make sure that they were from Australia. I played with him
as good or better than what had for a couple of years, starting
been on the record. That’s a good rule to follow. with three Months opening for ZZ Top. That was an amazing
MD: No pressure… band and a really great time. Jimmy is an incredible singer. I
PS: Yeah, but it’s all about having fun with the music. When continued with various artists working with Bruce Allen.
we toured Reckless in 1985, things really clicked because I had In the Fall of 1994, my good friends Odds, a power pop band
time to digest all of the feels and the parts of the music. A lot of from Vancouver, called up and asked if I wanted to join forces, I
those original parts came from the demos Bryan and Jim made, said yes and jumped right in to finish the recording of the album
and as it turns out, a lot of the performances on the albums Good, Weird Feeling.
are from Jim Vallance playing on the demos and them being We continued on and off, made a few more records including
reinterpreted, Jim always plays exactly what needs to happen for Nest from 1996 and their most recent Crash The Time Machine.
the song, that makes him a great drummer. Starting in 1999 I began recording and touring with some big
MD: I love to hear songwriters play drums because they Canadian artists. I did about six years of touring and recording
approach things completely differently that we drummers with Colin James. I also recorded and played with Matthew
do. How has hearing Jim or Bryan playing drums on demos Good, doing his records Avalanche, White Light Rock and Roll
influenced you? Review, Hospital Music, and Arrows of Desire.
PS: When songwriters play drums, I find it’s more about the MD: Did you record with Jimmy Barnes?
meat and potatoes. Jim was a big session guy in Vancouver for PS: No, he was working with Jonathan Cain from Journey.
years, so he knows what good parts are about. For me it’s always Jonathan brought in Tony Brock from The Babys, who is another
been about respect for Vallance, his musicality, and his nice solid great drummer. Like I said, I kept working with Bruce Allen on
feel. Jim’s drumming isn’t big and bombastic, but it’s super solid, different projects and different artists he was developing.

Bryan Adams on Drumming and Pat Steward
MD: As a songwriter, what do you need from a next, and that’s exciting. Plus he’s really easy to wind
drummer? up, Keith and I get great joy in that live, Pat’s a great
BA: That’s a good question. Sometimes less is more, spirit to be around, and he rocks.
sometimes more is needed. Ultimately, they need to MD: What are a few of Pat’s performances (songs) on
find the right pocket for each song. Sometimes that’s record that (you feel) are extraordinary? And why?
easy, sometimes it’s a stylistic thing that makes it BA: Every one of Pat’s performances are extraordi-
work. It’s intangible. nary. He’s an absolute monster behind the drums
MD: As a rhythm guitarist, how do you see the rela- and very much a part of my sound, and that goes
tionship between rhythm guitar and drums? back years. I remember we did a song for the film
BA: If you were AC/DC it would be integral. I use The Guardian called “Never Let Go”. If you listen to
guitar as a way of working around the feel with my the outro (the last minute of the song) it’s a com-
voice in the center. Guitars should never lead the pletely explosive performance. Sadly, it might be
band, that’s for the bass player and drummer. forgotten, but not by me! “Summer of 69” of course.
MD: What do you hear from Pat that sets him apart I had cut that song three times before I found Pat in
from the rest? a bar playing in a ska band. He absolutely nailed it.
BA: He’s got an unbridled approach, in other words, Then there’s “Kids Wanna Rock” ... need I say more?
you sometimes have no idea know what’s coming
Simon Ager
The thing is, that after playing Adams-Vallance songs (which 90s when I was working with Odds.
are perfect “10’s”,) everything else felt like a “7” at best, so it was MD: After doing the Bryan Adams gig (on and off ) for 38 years,
challenging. All those Canadian songwriters were trying to write are you “the guy” now?
hit singles, and I get these demos and it’s just four on the floor. PS: Yes, I’ve been out with Bryan since 2021, but for about four
I wasn’t a fan of four on the floor, to me it sounded like a cop years before that, he’d call me once a year for random gigs, like
out. Part of the reason all of Bryan’s songs are hits is because Jim the Juno’s Awards (the Canadian Music Awards,) a gig in the
and Bryan sat and thought out all the parts.That’s where I was Middle East, and one in NY. But in 2021 in the midst of COVID,
at, I wanted to figure out he asked me to do his
the song and the right residency in Las Vegas.
parts. Sure, there was Mickey, didn’t want to go
a couple of early Bryan back on the road. I get it
Adams songs that were and thanks Mick, hope
four on the floor— but
with many of the other
When you play a great song, you’re doing great.
MD: What kind of drums
artists and songs that I and equipment are you
did, it just felt like, “Yeah
just play that four on the
it plays itself. playing?
PS: I bought the Silver
floor beat.” Not to mention, Sparkle Ludwig kit that
the songs weren’t as good I am playing with Bryan
as the Adams/ Vallance when I was in high school,
stuff. I felt like I was just they are Ludwig Classics.
constantly putting too In ’76 they changed
much butter on a piece of from three ply with
stale bread. reinforcement ring shells
But I kept getting calls to six ply maples. The
to record because people toms are 13, 16, 18, with
wanted to get eight songs a 24 kick. I’ve had that kit
done in two days, and forever, we used it in the
they knew I worked quick, “Summer of ‘69” video. I’ve
so they called me. The always used Ludwig snares
whole thing of making like Black Beauty’s and
the records and not the Supraphonics, but I felt
tours, or doing the tour like these days I needed
and not doing the record, something heavier, so
and being replaced has I’m playing a Gretsch Bell
been going on since the Brass that is amazing. My
beginning of pop music. hardware is all DW. I love
I used to wonder why it, it’s super versatile.
there was three different My pedals are all Yamaha
Steven Stanley
drummers on a record. FP 9500’s with a chain

Producers would get drive.
Jeff Porcaro to record I was with Pearl drums
everything, then get JR to for about 10 years, then I
record everything, then changed over to Sonor in
get whomever… And then 2013. At that point, I just
use whoever’s versions thought that I should play
sound best. I’ve learned (Bryan’s) Yamaha’s and cut
that, I’ve been on both sides of it, and now I’m OK with it. my ties with having a drum company. Things were way different
Bryan and I incrementally got back to solid ground, it took a for me all of a sudden and there was a lot in place I didn’t want
couple of years, but it’s great now. In 2003, Colin James opened to mess with. It’s a tight ship with all the shipping of gear. I
for Bryan, and Bryan called me to tell me that I sounded great on finally just said to Bryan, “I’m thinking of pulling my Ludwig
that gig. Bryan owns a recording studio in Vancouver, and I work silver sparkle kit that we used in the “Summer Of ‘69” video out
there a lot. Then in 2005, Bryan called me up to work on some of storage to take on tour. He loved the idea; he actually owns a
songs. Whenever he was off the road, he would come home to set of Ludwig’s too. I pulled them out and they’ve seen more life
Vancouver. He had a crew, and we would work on songs with in the last year than ever before. I took them to Rufus drum shop
him. He did the record called 11 at this time, and I played on six in Vancouver and they installed new spurs and new floor tom
songs brackets and cleaned them up like new. We put die cast rims on
MD: When you hear a track how can you tell if it’s you playing? all of the toms, and that made a huge difference. It just focused
PS: My dad said it was the sound of my snare drum, but maybe the sound a lot more. The first show I played with that kit, I sat
that’s because he heard it years ago in the basement when I down, and I just started grinning. I have had this kit for 43 years
was practicing at the house. Some people have told me it’s and I’m playing it every night and loving it.
something I do with the hi-hats. That probably developed in the MD: Don’t you need more toms for the big iconic Steve Smith

“Heaven” fills, or the backwards I brought the cymbals that I liked.
fill in “Summer of ‘69”?
PS: We used to have three racks
Pat Steward Recordings They were bigger, thinner, and
dark. They were good for other
and two floors as a standard. But Bryan Adams: Reckless, 11; Odds: Good, Weird gigs I had been doing but I found
over the years that’s evolved. Feeling, Nest, Cheerleader, Crash The Time Machine; out quickly I needed to switch
Bryan loves the whole old school Colin James: Fuse, Limelight, Rooftops & Satellites; things up. I had to pick some
thing. We don’t even have a Jann Arden: Cover Me 2, Everything Almost, Jann different cymbals and get a sound
drum riser. He saw a Zeppelin that works for this music. More
Arden Christmas, These Are The Days; Matthew
clip and asked us if we were cool 80’s-ish. So I spoke with my friend
with all being on the floor? I am Good: Avalanche, WLRRR, Hospital Music. and career cymbalsmith Mark
totally down with that, so the Love at the Sabian Factory in New
smaller kit even goes further in Brunswick. He set me straight
that direction. But iconic is the right word for those fills. I learned with what I needed. When we were playing in Vegas, Eric Singer
them years ago and I play them every night. But you can play and Brent Fitz came to a gig. Afterwards, they told me that the
them with less toms. crash I had on my far right was the best crash that I had. It cut
MD: How about cymbals? through all the guitars. It was a Sabian Vault model I’ve had for
PS: I’ve been with Sabian Cymbals since 1984 and they’ve been a while and I didn’t really play it much. I realized during that
just incredible to me all these years. I love the people and I conversation that I needed to play with two 20s and two 18s, it
really like that style of cymbal. When I started back with Bryan, just made sense, it’s the perfect 80s-90s cymbal setup.
Simon Ager

We just recorded Cuts Like A Knife, Into the Fire and Waking Up of ways, it’s the same. There’s a different bass player from before,
the Neighbors live (all in one day!) On some songs from Waking but Keith Scott and Bryan are still there, and they are the sound
Up the Neighbours there aren’t any sections that don’t have a two and foundation to the whole band sound, and they are really
or a four (or both) on a crash. I realized that I had to add an extra good guitar players.
crash. Waking Up the Neighbours was done with computer drums
MD: In the last 38 years, how has the gig, and your playing so that is quite a different approach, and playing that music is
evolved? “interesting.” I was trying to play those songs just like the record,
PS: The gig has evolved in that I was 23 or 24 when I started but there are so many fills that are just weird. They are NOT what
doing it and recorded on Reckless. I just turned 61 so the a drummer would play. Sometimes you just have to say, “OK the
knowledge that I’ve gained from playing music with all kinds of record goes like this, and when it’s played on the radio people
people has helped my playing evolve. With Bryan, there’s some know it, the tempo is right, and it’s an amazing song. However,
arrangement things that have been added or subtracted. In a lot when we’re playing it live, I don’t think the drums have to be
Simon Ager

exactly like the computer programmed part that’s on the record. arrangements are long and very involved. When I was young,
If it’s the same feel, and it’s being played by the same guy who I listened to a record over and over and learned it. Maybe as a
wrote it, what’s the harm? 20-year-old your memory is a bit sharper, but in your 40s or 50s
MD: When you are learning other people’s drum parts, or are you start writing things down. But I don’t want charts to become
learning someone’s music for a session, how do you do it? a crutch, so I work on it by writing and memorizing. With Bryan
PS: Listening, and some transcribing. I do use a type of system I have a big thick stack of charts that I travel with, just so I can
that Kenny Aronoff spoke about once way back; writing things go back and look at an arrangement if I need to, even if I already
out on note or recipe cards. That makes sense because it’s small have the song pretty well memorized. We did a couple of songs
and you can clamp it anywhere. When I get a new song, I’ll sit and recently that we haven’t played since the Royal Albert Hall shows,
listen to it intently and write a chart of the length each section. so I took a quick glance at what the arrangement actually is.
But that system didn’t work for some of the things on Waking Up When we did Waking Up the Neighbours live I had it all charted
the Neighbours. I needed two full sheets of paper because those out, I kept practicing it so I could play that album and all the
arrangements top to bottom without having to use a chart, that
was a big achievement. We were out touring, doing the standard
set (which has nothing to do with Waking Up the Neigbours) for
three weeks. Then we went into a week-long rehearsal for Waking
Up the Neighbours , Bryan had changed some arrangements from
what I’d learned off the album. That’s why I always chart in pencil,
You are always making adjustments.
MD: What are some of your favorite songs to play with Bryan?
PS: I love playing “Cuts Like a Knife” and “Somebody.” Those
have “that feel” I was talking about. “Kids Wanna Rock” comes
up periodically, “One Night Love Affair” has sort of come back
into the set. I guess I take pride in playing the songs I recorded
because I can think back to what was going on when we
recorded those songs. Playing the Reckless stuff like “It’s Only
Love” (the Tina Turner duet) is always so fun because it sounds
amazing coming through the in ears. They made that album to
sound like what you’re gonna hear when it’s played live. It just
hits you right in the face. The Waking Up the Neighbours music is
fun because it’s new to me. That record has such an 80s and 90s
thing.
MD: Do you or Bryan feel that every song has a perfect tempo
where it must be played?
PS: A lot of tunes have their “home.” For example, when you hear
a song like “This Time” on the record, Bryan has probably played
the song 100 times by himself and worked on the tempo with
Valance. By the time we practice, rehearse, and track it, Bryan
knows that 125 bpm is where it lives. Sometimes that’s why
there’s the odd song that we’ll put a click on live, it’s just because
that’s where the vocal lives. There is an ultimate tempo or home
for every song. I watch Bryan’s body language all of the time for
tempo, I just want him to be comfortable. Like I said, I’m always
open to making adjustments.
MD: Here is the understatement of all time. There’s something to
be said about playing great songs. You’re blessed to get to play
great songs every night.
PS: I completely agree. When you play a great song, it plays
itself. Some people are saying that this is probably the best tour
of Bryan’s that they’ve ever seen. I feel like there’s something
cool going on. I’m excited to be here. Bryan and I have a similar
energy and I think he’s really excited about that. I think we have
a synergy, we’re on the same page a lot, and that’s good. Plus we
both like oat milk lattes. We are having a lot of fun up there and,
apparently it looks like it. These are great songs, these are great
parts, and I get to make some of it my own. We’re having a blast
so come and see us next year, we will have another 30 shows in
the US, including another date at Madison Square Garden.
Check out Pat’s drummer profile page, at

moderndrummer.com

Michael “Cavs”
Cavanagh
The Rhythmic Force Behind
King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard
By Danny “Ziggy” Laverde
Maclay-Heriot

Michael “Cavs” Cavanagh, the drummer of King
Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard, has been captivating
audiences around the world with his explosive
drumming and dynamic rhythms. As the backbone of
one of the most innovative and genre-bending bands
of our time, Cavs has established himself as a true
master of his craft, constantly pushing the boundaries
of what’s possible on the drums. In this interview,
Modern Drummer had the pleasure of sitting down
with Cavs to talk about his musical journey, his creative
process, and the techniques that have made him one
of the best drummers in the industry. From his early
beginnings as a drummer in his hometown of Geelong,
Australia to his current status as a respected musician;
Cavs offers a candid and insightful look into his life as
Maclay-Heriot
a musician and the passion that drives him to keep
creating. So, sit back, and get ready to be inspired by
the one and only Michael “Cavs” Cavanagh.
MD: How did you discover your love of MD: How did you develop your skill
drums and music? and technique? Did you have a teacher
MC: My cousin lived just up the road from outside of the music classes?
me, and he had a drum kit. I was the little MC: I took music as a subject in high
annoying kid who always wanted to play school, but after that I never went to
his drum kit. I guess that was my first sort of college. After I graduated high school, I
“nibble” at the drums. When I was in grade moved to Melbourne and started playing
10, I started playing music at school, and in bands. In my hometown, I took lessons
at that point I wasn’t very good on drums. for a couple of years from the local drum
Then I just became obsessed, I got my first teacher. I come from a small country
drum kit when I was about 16, It was a town in rural New South Wales with
Basics brand kit. That was cool. about 8,000 people. There were a lot of
I loved Zeppelin, Hendrix, the Stones, The musicians in the town, so it was really
Beatles and all those 60’s/70’s rock bands, good for music. There were a lot of older
but I also listened to a lot of classic Aussie jazz musicians in town that I played with,
pub rock like AC/DC, Midnight Oil, and Cold which was cool. That helped me develop.
Chisel. When I was 16, I was also listening I took lessons for two years when I first
to and loved Green Day. I guess at that age, started, but I’m pretty much self-taught.
you’re always listening to that kind of stuff. I listened to a lot of different music, and
When I started playing music in school, that’s what gave me the inspiration to
Zeppelin and Hendrix songs were too hard pursue it further.
to play for everyone so we would always MD: How did you end up meeting your
end up covering Green Day and Blink-182 current bandmates and starting King
songs which was fun! Gizzard?

MC: I moved to Melbourne and Eric, and he said, “Hey, I’ve got a name for the
When I started the other drummer that used to play in band: King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard.
Gizzard, introduced me to Stu and Lucas. I thought it was a joke since the band at
playing music in They had a band called The Houses and that point wasn’t really anything serious.
they were looking for a drummer. Eric I think Stu just wanted a really long and
school, Zeppelin knew I was moving to Melbourne to join silly name that was hard to say.
bands, so he put me in touch with them. I MD: How did the band develop into
and Hendrix joined the band with Stu and Lucas, it was something more serious?
kind of indie-psyche-rock stuff. At that MC: It’s all just maturity. Stu matured as
songs were too time, I was probably 19 to 20 years old. a songwriter and a musician, which was
Stu and Lucas also played in three really inspiring for the rest of us. We were
hard to play for other bands. Everyone was playing in all growing up and maturing at the same
so many different bands. I met so many time as musicians. We started getting
everyone so we people, and we eventually formed one
big band out of a bunch of other smaller
booked on some big festivals and getting
some radio play in Australia. From the
would always bands that were playing around town.
Gizzard spawned from that and all of Stu’s
very start, we wanted to be a band that
didn’t just release an album every two
songs. For our first gig, we got booked to or three years. Not even one a year. We
end up covering play a dive bar in Melbourne and we got just wanted to write, record, put it out
all our friends to get on stage and play there, and keep doing it. I think it’s always
Green Day and one chord songs. That was about 12 years been a dream of Stu’s to have a massive
ago. back catalogue and a huge output like
Blink-182 songs MD: How did you guys get the name the Grateful Dead and Zappa. Stu’s
“King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard”? work ethic with writing and recording is
which was fun! MC: It has no story or anything. I unbelievable. I guess that’s why people
remember I got a text from Stu one day associate us with those 70’s artists that
Maclay-Heriot

Maclay-Heriot
were just releasing records left, right, and

center.
know when parts change?
MC: When we’re jamming songs, we
I always try to
MD: How do you and the other band
members warm up before a show? How
don’t know. That’s the whole thing. If
we want to dive into a dynamic change
control the
do you get in the right mindset? here and there, sometimes I’ll lead it,
MC: We all just sit around, play music, and sometimes Stu will lead it, but it’s pure
dynamics. I think
dance around. It’s nothing crazy. I stretch connection. We’ve been jamming for so
a lot. I sometimes do practice pad stuff, long that I know what Stu’s going to do if we planned our
but for me it’s mainly stretching. I’ve got and Stu knows what I’m going to do. It’s
to do at least 40 minutes of stretching. really weird. Sometimes the jams we do jams, it wouldn’t
Stretching my arms and my back, are crap, but sometimes they’re sweet.
especially my legs just so I’m nice and With the jamming side of things, we be as special.
loose. In terms of the mindset, because don’t rehearse any of that. It’s just, “Ok,
we’ve got such a big catalogue of songs, we’re going to jam this section of that You’d lose that
we usually have to do a few refreshers. song and we’ll see what happens.” I guess
Some of us will get together in the corner that’s the good thing about having three “mystique.”
and run over parts of some songs. Then guitarists and keys; there’s always places
we all do a shot of tequila, and we go on you can take it. I always try to control the
stage. That’s the tradition. dynamics. I think if we planned our jams,
MD: When you improvise live, how do you it wouldn’t be as special. You’d lose that

Maclay-Heriot
“mystique.” then, Stu would overdub stuff digitally in

I’ve always wanted MD: Do you ever write songs based on the van and I’d do tambourine overdubs
jams you’ve had? in the tour bus when we’re on the road.
to incorporate MC: Definitely. A lot of Gizzard songs MD: What was it like adding another
have formed from that. That’s also part of drummer to the lineup?
more (kind of) the reason why we record every show.
MD: In the early days of the band, how
MC: Before Mindfuzz, I was playing drums
and Eric was doing more percussion
jazz-fusion vibes did you write and record so much
material that quick?
stuff. Then we started writing music
that suited two drummers. “Head On/
into our heavy MC: Stu would come in with a couple of
chords, a riff, and a little melody, then
Pill” was the first song we recorded with
two drummers. After that, we thought,
we’d jam on it at rehearsals. Then the “That really worked, let’s make more
thrash songs. next day, we’d record it. We were all into songs with the ‘driving’ feel.” That kind of
DIY recording, and we still are to a point. style of drumming stems from my love of
MD: Would you record to tape or Krautrock like Neu!, Kraftwerk, and Can.
digitally? MD: What was the process like using odd
MC: Mainly digital because in the early time signatures on albums like Nonagon
days we didn’t have the money to have Infinity?
crazy mics and recording gear. We just MC: I always loved odd time signatures
had a few SM-57s on the kit and would since I first started playing music. I
record it into Ableton, ProTools, or listened to Pink Floyd and King Crimson.
whatever we were using at the time. So, when Stu was like “Oh, let’s do odd
That was the cheapest and easiest way time signatures,” I was all about it. Now all
to do it. Then we started to make more of our songs are in seven, and when I play
money and started buying more mics in 4/4, I don’t know how to do it.
and recording gear. It wasn’t until when I’ll come up with a beat in an odd time
we recorded Quarters!, Mindfuzz, and signature and Stu will make a riff in that
Nonagon Infinity that we recorded at time signature. I like to make the drums
Daptone in New York. That was one of feel like they’re in odd time, but the
the first times we recorded to tape. Even average listener might not know that. I

don’t like to make it more complicated, cut and add sections. From a recording song with a basic drum machine groove,
so it’s not too obvious or jarring. I like to aspect, those records actually sound a lot and I will record the kit over the top, but
keep it really simple and really discreet. cleaner than our other records because sometimes we will leave the demoed
MD: In 2017, you dropped five albums. there’s no bleed. Everything was recorded drum track in as well. That can be a cool
Was that year a non-stop recording in separate rooms, and it was all done to a effect. I like experimenting with that stuff.
session? click. That was another cool challenge we MD: What do you hope to incorporate
MC: Yeah. We were recording on days off set for ourselves, and we embraced it. into your playing that you haven’t
touring and at soundchecks. We still do MD: What about the album Butterfly 3000? already?
that. Stu announced to the public that MC: We did the same thing that we did MC: I’ve always wanted to incorporate
we were going to release five albums with K.G. and L.W.. Butterfly 3000 was more (kind of ) jazz-fusion vibes into
that year, and I think at the point he mainly electronics, and half the drums I our heavy thrash songs. That was my
announced it we’d only recorded two. did to a click in my home studio. approach while writing the drums parts
Anyway, we did it. MD: What were you listening to around for “Dragon.”
I remember being in New Zealand and that time? MD: Throughout the years and your
we did five nights in a row in this small MC: At that time, I was listening to a lot of many albums, what have you seen to be
bar. Our gear stayed set up, so we’d go desert blues. It’s like Afrobeat and Middle the biggest difference in terms of your
during the day and record. At the time it Eastern music by bands like Tinariwen, playing and song writing?
was exhausting but fun. Tamikrest, and Songhoy Blues. MC: The biggest difference is probably
MD: What was the writing process like for MD: What inspired the rhythms on “Gaia”? me writing drum parts for songs without
K.G. and L.W.? MC: I love Neil Peart’s drumming, and I any fills (i.e. “Rattlesnake”.) I think I
MC: They were both written around the like his use of the bell of the ride. He does deliberately only hit the crash once on
same time. We wrote them during the a really cool bell pattern on “The Spirit of that recording. Then you have songs like
big lockdown in Melbourne. We all set up Radio”, and I wanted to do something like “Ice Death” which are pretty much all fills.
studios at our houses. That’s one of the that. I think that kind of contrast can be really
only albums we recorded to a click. Stu MD: How did the drum part on “The effective and challenging. It’s the art of
would send me a riff recorded to a click, Garden Goblin” come together? restraint.
then I’d lay down the drums, then send it MC: Cookie wrote the drum machine
back to him, then he’d send me another groove on that. I tried to replicate the
Check out Michael’s drummer
profile page, at
part, and then he’d piece it together. If drum machine and give it a sort of disco- moderndrummer.com
you record to a click, it’s really easy to rock feel. Stu will sometimes demo a
Maclay-Heriot

The Power of Community
By Mark Griffith
he recent tradition of jazz drummers from
T Houston, Texas is a long and always growing
list. Among them has been Sebastian Whittaker,
Chris Dave, Eric Harland, Kendrick Scott, Jamire
Williams, and now Jeremy Dutton. Jeremy has
been on the New York Jazz scene for about nine
years. He moved from Houston and attended the
New School starting in 2013. After he graduated,
he started recording challenging music and
playing with Vijay Iyer, Ambrose Akinmusire,
Stefon Harris, Jacky Terrasson, Chris Potter, and
Tigran Hamasayan; And with his peers Joel
Ross, James Francies, and Mike Moreno. Jeremy
Dutton’s new record Anyone is Better than Here is
an amazing debut of a drummer and composer
that we will be hearing from for a long time, and
he has a lot of great advice for the musicians out
there! Listen up…

Jason Rostkowski

MD: What is it like to be the “latest” jazz receive things better because I already that meant something to me when I
drummer coming from Houston? understood the fundamentals. I already first received them. As I’ve gotten older,
JD: I’ve always thought of it as a huge understood that you need to learn (and I started to see how those lessons have
honor to be connected to that history. I know) your rudiments, you gotta check formed a strong foundation for all the
feel connected to the scene, connected to out records, you gotta transcribe, you things that I do.
the Houston community, and connected gotta do the things that need to be done. MD: All of that is such great advice! What is
to all the great teachers and summer I’ve learned so much from Kendrick, he the jazz scene like in Houston?
camps that I had growing up. I went to the always took time to talk to me about any JD: It can be a little bit more soul and
summer jazz workshop and played all the little thing. I’ve always been one of those R&B influenced depending on where
gigs that everyone else used to do around people that that likes to ask questions, but you’re playing. There was a contingent
Houston. It is always nice to know that I always tried not to ask questions about of people who did more R&B influenced
you’re taking the same steps as people things that I could learn about just by things, but then you would go to the jam
who are in the place that you want to be. watching. sessions and hear those same cats playing
That means a lot. Of course, it’s a little MD: Asking “informed” questions. “Giant Steps” or you any other standard.
daunting, but I’ve been fortunate to have JD: Yes. I used to watch what they did Obviously, the gospel thing is big, it
some great teachers along the way. Craig closely, rather than ask about specific bleeds into everything. A lot of cats have
Green and Sebastian Whittaker were great things. The life lessons that they have a church gig, that was a big thing when I
teachers, but I learned a lot from people given me have been powerful. Kendrick was coming up. When I was growing up
who were not drummers like Horace always used to tell me that whatever the scene was probably like every other
Alexander Young and trombonist Andre you’re trying to do in life, and whatever major city. There always seemed to be so
Hayward. All of the Houston musicians many musicians but not enough places
saw how interested I was when I was to play. There were a few great clubs like
younger, they saw that I had a passion for You need to Legends and the Red Cat Jazz Café. But I
really got in touch with the jazz scene by
the music, and they really encouraged
me. That meant a lot. When I was in high
school, I met Kendrick Scott, and I got to
understand that it’s going to the Summer Jazz Workshop. A
lot of the local musicians taught there, so
spend some time with Eric Harland for a after the camp was over, I would find out
while when he was teaching at a camp not just about you. where they would be playing and go out
in California that I attended. Just being and see them play. But overall, Houston
around those guys was an education.
They have always been very generous,
There’s a bunch of is a community, when the older players
would see a curious young person who’s
open, and kind to me. I haven’t taken that interested in the music and wanted to
for granted. I always felt like all the things other great people, learn and get better, they would always
that they did for me wasn’t because they invite you to come to their gigs and sit in
were expecting something in return. The innovators, thinkers, and play a little bit. It was always exciting
advice that they had poured into me and just to be around the music. That’s one of
the time that they had spent teaching me
helped me to honor the gifts that I was
and players who the reasons why so many great musicians
come from Houston. Coming from a scene
given. (or a community) is very important. I think
MD: What did those guys teach you, and came before you. you need that baseline and that identity.
how did they help you prepare for coming Even though we are all individuals, and we
to New York? must maintain our own identities, we need
JD: Everybody had a different lesson. you’re trying to do musically— start today! a communal identity to give us something
Early on with people like Craig Green and Don’t wait until tomorrow, because you’re to come back to. As a young person there’s
Sebastian Whittaker, the first and most gonna wait til tomorrow, and before gonna be times when you feel a little “lost.”
important lesson that I learned from you know it, it’s gonna be two or three You might get off track or feel like you’ve
them and the most enduring lesson of years later. When I was younger, I didn’t lost touch with something that you once
all, was to take it seriously. That meant necessarily have a perspective on what felt very connected to. However, when
to really hone in on the fundamentals of that meant. But living in New York and on you have a community behind you, even
what it means to play to play the drums. the East Coast, that really does happen. if it’s only a couple of people, it can really
View the drums as an instrument like Time just gets away from you. Eric has bring you back to the center. I find myself
every other instrument. There’s a certain great metaphors about playing the drums. understanding this more and more as I get
amount of knowledge that you need to He was always talking about thinking of older. We are all just building communities
have about every aspect of what you’re yourself as someone who is in service to within other communities. In my time in
doing. You need to understand that it’s the music, rather than as somebody who New York, it’s been like that as well. A lot of
not just about you. There’s a bunch of is playing to prove something or trying to the people that I play with today like Joel
other great people, innovators, thinkers, demonstrate how good they are. I think Ross and James Francies are people that
and players who came before you. I think all of them (Craig, Sebastian, Kendrick, I knew when we were in school together.
that having that knowledge early on is Eric) and really any great musician, are In school, we were a community of people
really what prepared me to meet Kendrick always trying to teach you how to get trading ideas, inspiring each other, and
Scott and Eric Harland. When I first got closer to yourself, and how to get in get in challenging each other. You can’t beat
to talk to them for a minute, I was able to touch with yourself. Those are the lessons that, it’s irreplaceable. My advice to young

musicians, when they’re thinking about full a pretty complete picture of the of drummer for me and has been for a long
going to school for music, or wondering the group with Wayne Shorter and Lee time. But I kept coming back to feel of
what school they should go to, is to go Morgan. They are playing so well together. The Big Beat. Blakey had “that” on all his
somewhere with your musical friends I love the way The Big Beat starts with a records, but I remember being struck by it
because then you’ll be able to have that deep shuffle groove, then there is great for the first time when I heard The Big Beat.
same sense of community and build each drum solo on “Sakeena’s Vision.” That led That feel immediately took a hold of me.
other up, as opposed to starting from me to Blakey’s Indestructible, Mosaic, and I grew up playing along to that record A
scratch. Free For All. I got super inundated with that LOT, but I listened to it even more!
Jason Rostkowski
MD: When you were developing as music and it really held me in a in a way I spent a great deal of time with Wayne
a drummer in Houston, who were that had a big impact on the way I think Shorter’s Juju, that was probably some
you listening to, and what music was about music. That band captured so many of the first time that I heard Elvin Jones’
influenced you? different moods, different settings, and playing. I fell in love with the sound of his
JD: I listened to a lot of Art Blakey for a different times, that blew me away. ride cymbal, and his timekeeping, that led
long time. He was somebody that I was As I got older, I started checking out me to Coltrane’s A Love Supreme, Crescent,
drawn to, he was the first jazz drummer more and more stuff with Lee and Wayne. and My Favorite Things. Listening to A
that I really felt connected to. It started That leads you to Billy Higgins, Tony, Elvin, Love Supreme and MIles’ Kind of Blue when
with The Big Beat, that record shows a and Joe Chambers. Roy Haynes is a big I was young, and without the amount

of playing experience that I have now, the unaccented rhythms on the bass wasn’t expecting that he would know so
impacted me in a unique way. I could tell drum. That was hard, but it opened me up much historically and be in touch with
that something powerful was happening to understanding that there’s a wide array everything that people are doing today.
on those records. Of course, Kind of of sounds available in every instrument All of my teachers had one thing in
Blue leads you to Miles’ Birth of the Cool, within the set. common. They all had the feeling that
Walkin’, Relaxin’, and more records with Mr. Victor Lewis used to have us do an they are still learning and still trying to get
Jimmy Cobb, Philly Joe, and Tony Williams. exercise where he would play a song that better. I took a lot away from that.
Whenever I found a new drummer to I had never heard before and have me Lessons with Mr. Jimmy Cobb involved
check out, I would always try to go back as
far as I could to listen to them playing.
MD: While you were listening and
playing along to records, what were you
Kendrick always used to tell me that
practicing?
JD: A lot of rudiments and fundamentals. whatever you’re trying to do in life, and
Sebastian Whitaker had me learning Alan
Dawson’s “Rudiment Ritual.” I did some whatever you’re trying to do musically—
stuff out of John Riley’s book, but I also
spent a lot of time just playing the ride
cymbal. That became a thing as I got
start today! Don’t wait until tomorrow,
older, just playing the ride cymbal, and
trying to understand the different rhythms because you’re gonna wait til tomorrow,
that you can play on the ride. Early on, I
was really trying to get my hands together and before you know it, it’s gonna be two
so I could execute things comfortably on
the ride cymbal (and the drums) without
having to think too much. I wanted to be
or three years later.
able to have a sound in my mind and be
able to create that sound flow effortlessly.
I still work out of Ted Reed Syncopation, write out a chart to the song in five or ten a lot of playing. We would play standards
in high school was I doing Four Way minutes. Then I would play it. He got on together, trade, and then talk. Lessons
Coordination by Marvin Dahlgren. And (of me because my charts would only make with all of these men would start with
course) I was taking different things that I sense to me, but he would tell me to find them asking you to play, and usually
heard on records and trying to play them. a way to write a chart out so that anyone involve a lot of talking.
Before everyone had an iPhone, I had a could look at it and play it. We talked Lessons with Nasheet Waits were really
tape recorder and I used to record myself about life a lot, he used to talk to me about cool. He turned me on to some different
playing and listen back. It was interesting when he got to New York, and he’d be records. He could tell that I had listened
to listen to yourself, when you’re young playing different gigs and Tony Williams, to a lot of a lot of records, but he pointed
it’s kind of cool. But as I got older I started or Jimmy Cobb would be in the audience. me to some other things to really open my
to be more analytical about things and He relayed to me about feeling like “just” ears. There were some more Max Roach
train my ears to focus on different aspects this young guy who didn’t have much records that I had never heard before, he
of my playing. I also tried to find as many experience and hanging out with the turned me onto M’Boom, the percussion
interviews and books about whoever I all-time greats. Now I can understand that ensemble that is his father was in with
was checking out at the time. Reading because I was (and am) going through Max Roach. When we played, he would
Art Taylor’s Notes and Tones was a part of that same thing. ask me to do certain things that he knew
that. I was just trying to find out as much The thing that I love so much about I couldn’t do. Then we would talk about
information as I could about how different Mr. Billy Hart is that he’s really down to his experience with whatever he asked
drummers got the sound that they got. I earth. People have so much reverence me to play and demonstrate where he
recorded lessons as well. and respect for him, but he doesn’t seem was coming from. Nasheet is a very cool
MD: At the New School, who did you study wrapped up in that. I’ll never forget and person to hang with, but he has a natural
with, and what did you get from each of the first lesson I ever took with him. He intensity to him. He embodies strength. I
them? laid out the entire lineage and history of tried to take some of that away from just
JD: I studied with a lot of different guys jazz drumming. He drew a line from Chick interacting with him.
at the New School: Greg Hutchinson, Billy Webb to Philly Joe to Tony Williams to Jeff MD: He got that from his dad, every day
Hart, Victor Lewis, Jimmy Cobb, Nasheet “Tain” Watts to Marcus Gilmore to Justin he lives he reminds me more and more of
Waits, Tyshawn Sorey, and Kendrick Scott. Brown. And he did it over a span of 45 his pops.
Hutch really got on me about making sure minutes. That was really profound because JD: Studying with Tyshawn was impactful
that I understood certain dynamic issues he went into detail on every single person. even though, we only did two or three
and the inner dynamics within the set. He talked about his interpretation of lessons together. We had already met
We used to talk about feel and dynamics Afro Cuban rhythms, the 6/8 feel and the at a workshop in Banff. We talked about
of the bass drum. Hutch used to have me Indian influence coming in. He is aware some melodic and compositional things,
play things out of the Jim Chapin book of all those different things. I didn’t know he encouraged me to think a little more
from the pages with accents, but playing what to expect from his lessons, but I “dissonant” and explore outside of basic

tonality. Drum wise, he told me that I in that conversation, you must attack it getting a sound?
didn’t need his advice and to continue with the same sort of ferocity and be really JD: Some of it came from just watching
down the path that I was on. serious about what you’re doing. This him play up close. The other part of it was
Something that I have always can’t be something that you’re doing for learning that he had studied with a lot
understood about learning from anyone any other reason than trying to be better. of classical percussionists as well. I didn’t
in music is that you can learn a lot by just Kendrick has always been generous with know that before I had met him. He gave
observing. It’s OK to ask questions, but me, even after we had completed our me this reverse stroke exercise where you
you can really learn from watching people. lessons at the New School, he has always make a sound on the drum without hitting
Observing someone will usually answer been somebody that I could call up and it. He taught me a lot about his technique,
the majority of the questions that you talk to about anything. and not using rebound. I started to see
might have. When I started taking lessons, he how he was getting that sound. We
MD: Kendrick Scott was a teacher, but he asked me to play something, so I played talked about tuning, playing surfaces, and
also produced your new record. Which “Gingerbread Boy.” After I played, he said making sure that when you hit the drum
makes sense because his own records are “Alright cool, you can already play, that’s you hit the drum where you’re trying to hit
always a treat and very well produced good.” He knew me from Houston but the drum. Those are “simple” things, but
and put together. Is it possible to put had never heard me play. Later he told after making those adjustments I started
into words what you have learned from me that he knew I was either going to be to see how it makes a huge difference in
Kendrick along the way? really good or really bad. He had me sight your sound.
Jason Rostkowski
JD: Kendrick brings a lot to every situation. read certain things, orchestrate different MD: One of your first big gigs in New York
Of any of my teachers, I have spent the melodies on the drums, take phrases from was playing with Vijay Iyer, but there is a
most time with Kendrick and I am grateful Wilcoxson and rework them around the pretty big gap between Art Blakey The Big
for that. The overwhelming thing I learned drums, and overall, just challenging me on Beat and Vijay’s music. How did you bridge
from him was just how serious he is about different fronts. He started getting me to that gap?
the music. I always knew Kendrick was think about phrasing things differently, he JD: When I was at the High School for
great. But it’s one thing to know that taught me a lot of things about technique Performing and Visual Arts in Houston, we
somebody’s great from seeing them play. and getting a sound out of the drum. That were all part of a bigger community. That
It’s another thing to go into the space was already a direction I was going in, but school is a special place, we used to have
where they live and see up close that they Kendrick has a whole method of how he a class there called Rhythm Section which
didn’t get that good by accident or just gets that sound; it’s in the way he hits the was all rhythm section players playing in a
by being cool. Kendrick is a cool person drum and the way that he approaches variety of formats. Our teacher was Richard
who’s very good, but it’s because he works playing. His sound is amazing, but what Cruz who had gone to the New School,
very hard. To get to that level you must be makes it amazing is that it’s exactly the lived in New York, knew Robert Glasper,
meticulous, and Kendrick is meticulous way he sounds live and in person, there’s and had a bunch of experience. He knew
about everything. no studio magic happening. what we’d be looking at if we moved to
If you want to get to that level and be MD: How did you guys discuss touch and New York. He used to always bring in

music that was a little above our level, and bad. If you can understand the way that DMC. I grew up listening to a lot of rap
we would have to figure out how to play it. the bass needs to move, then you can music. I was always borrowing rap records
I have many fond memories of just failing understand a lot about what it takes to from my older brothers and my uncle
miserably and not being able to play write a great song.” while I was listening to jazz.
certain stuff as a high school freshman. I’d There are times that I have a rhythm, MD: How did the jazz and the rap
never played in five or anything like that, or a series of rhythms, and I’ll write from converge in your playing and in your
it was all new to me. But the spirit of being there— but overall, I want my music to be mind?
in that community of people who are not something that makes sense. Even if it’s JD: At first it really didn’t merge. Robert
deterred by something that is challenging more complex, I want it to be accessible Glasper’s Trio and The Experiment started
but are instead motivated to get better in some way. I enjoy music that, although when I was in high school, but they hadn’t
is how I started to learn more rhythmic you might not understand everything recorded yet. That was the first time I’d
things and get into different music. From that’s happening, you don’t really feel ever heard of J Dilla, that was a big deal.
ninth grade on, we were playing standards the need to understand, because there’s I started listening to Robert and his trio,
and doing traditional things, but we something pulling you in. they were coming hard out of jazz and
were also having these experiences with MD: Tell me about the song “Truman” from more traditional things, but then it started
music that was written in different time the new record? blending into this hip hop thing and
signatures and were more rhythmically JD: Truman started as a something that I I thought that was really interesting. I
advanced. had written for school, I don’t think I ever hadn’t really considered that before. I had
I was always listening to different stuff turned it in. I went back to the idea later on heard a bootleg of Chris Dave and Robert
where Eric Harland, Chris Dave, and Brian and I liked it, and I finished it at the piano Glasper at the Blue Note in NY, and it was
insane. They were playing all this jazz
stuff, but they were putting a hip hop
In the 100 year evolution of the drum set, lean on things. The coolest thing was
that it didn’t feel “corny.” It didn’t feel like
you had to leave one thing to choose
the jazz drummers have created all of the the other, it was very organic. I think
there’s a lot of similarities between rap
stuff that people are playing. Early on the and jazz, especially in the sense of the
power of repetition. That’s what loops
great jazz drummers were the ones who put and breaks are about, finding little
pieces of information and expanding
that little piece of information into an
things together, and we owe a lot to them. entire song.
MD: What have you been listening to
recently?
Blade were playing in different time and with my computer. I’m a very visual JD: Cannonball Adderley Nippon Soul
signatures. Ultimately, I got to a point person, and it started to remind me of the with Louis Hayes, Gretsch Drum Night at
where it became comfortable. I had a lot of last sequence in the movie The Truman Birdland, Jeff Watts Detained In Amsterdam,
time to experiment and question myself. Show. He is sailing on the water, and he Andrew Hill Smokestack, and Kenny
When I was a sophomore, we all started to hits the wall. He figures out that he’s living Dorham Una Mas with Tony Williams,
write things in different time signatures, in a fake reality and must decide whether especially the track “Straight Ahead.” I just
so every week somebody brought in a he’s going to keep living in the fake reality love Tony’s playing on that. I’ve also been
composition in nine, five, or seven. I can’t or if he’s gonna go to the real world. In that checking out this album Live at Electric
speak to how good the compositions song, I’m trying to capture the question of, Ladyland by the singer Yebba. Questlove,
were, but the point is that we were curious ‘Do you risk choosing the unknown or do James Francies and a bunch of people are
about that stuff. you just choose familiarity?’ on it.
MD: On your outstanding new record MD: Where did “Opening Credit” come MD: Besides your own, what records that
Anyone is Better Than Here, so much of that from? you have played on would you point
early experience (and maybe the lessons JD: It’s kind of the same situation but in people to?
with Tyshawn Sorey) comes through in a different way. During the during the JD: I am on all of James Francies records
your composing. How do you compose? pandemic, I found these old voice memos on Blue Note. I like Purest Form. I’m on
JD: In general, I tend to think of the top that I had. I heard myself playing this three of Joel Ross’ records on Blue Note, I
voice and the bottom voice. The bass and piano figure over and over, and I felt like like KingMaker. But truthfully, I like all the
the melody together first, from there I fill it needed to be finished. I sat down and records I’ve done with James and Joel.
in the rest. started singing this simple melody over I also just recorded Joel’s next record,
MD: So you’re starting with counterpoint? it, and that’s how the whole song came and it’s going to be very well received,
JD: Basically yes. A bass player told me together. but it’s a little different. James, Joel, and
why the bass is the most important On that song, there’s a slowed down I are helping each other tell each other’s
instrument in the world. He said, “There’s section that was a callback to the Houston stories, and it’s come to the point where it
no good song that has bad bass motion. rap scene like DJ Screw, Little Troy, GETO feels like a conversation. We’re all different
If the bass motion is bad, it doesn’t matter Boys, Tre, and Scarface; and popular 90s people, but there’s a certain mentality and
what else is happening, the entire song is rap like Biggie Smalls, Pharcyde, and Run approach that we have to music and life

that really makes us so closely interlinked. the stuff that people are playing. Early on is about staying in the moment, but you
When we’re playing, we are able to push the great jazz drummers were the ones need to have something that’s away
each other forward in a really organic and who put things together, and we owe a lot and safe from the moment. It’s essential
trusting way. It’s hard to describe, but to them. to know that this moment is just part
trust, genuine respect, and the love for MD: What would you tell the younger of wherever you’re going, it’s all part of
one another has really made us into the drummers out there who are thinking of the journey. If you think that “someday
players that we are. coming to New York and attending music I’ll believe in myself” before you move to
MD: What do you say when some folks say school or want to hit the NYC jazz scene? New York, you’re not gonna last very long.
that the jazz of today doesn’t necessarily JD: Be clear about what it what it is that Because all the people we just talked
“swing” in the way it used to? you’re trying to do. Because whether you about, believe in themselves and in their
JD: In my mind, and because of the way get what you want, or you don’t get what ability to do this at a very high level. That
that I learned, I don’t really see it as all that you want, it’s not going to be what you doesn’t mean that they never have down
different. Maybe the context is different, think. You need to have something that’s periods or question whether they can do
but that doesn’t change the actual feeling keeping you going that’s about more than it. But it does mean that no matter what
of the music. The actual ability to swing is any sort of outward validation. There will happens, they’re always getting back to
something that’s immutable, either music be times when you are going to get that work. My last advice would be to come
swings, or it doesn’t. There’s always been validation, and times when you’re not to NYC as a community of people, don’t
multiple views of swing. Swing has always going to get that validation. Both can be come alone, bring your people, stay
been a wide category. There has never harmful to your overall development, so together, challenge each other, and keep
been one single way to do it. When you you need a baseline, which is what we your standards high. New York is a high-
look at Roy Haynes, Tony, Elvin, Philly Joe, were talking about at the beginning of pressure place, it can really beat you down
Jack DeJohnette, and Kenny Clarke; those our talk. Have a community of people fast in a in a way that you’re not expecting,
people were all alive at the same time and that keeps you grounded and keeps you so you must have something in you that’s
they all played the ride cymbal differently, moving forward in a way that’s natural to willing to push back.
and they ALL swing. People either accept you. Secondly, you must believe that you
that or they don’t. But either way, the can do it. That’s something that sounds
drum set as we know it is barely 100 years basic, but you must have that belief in Check out Jeremy’s drummer
profile page, at
old. In the 100 year evolution of the drum your down moments. moderndrummer.com
set, the jazz drummers have created all of This is an oxymoron. The music itself
Techra
Drumsticks By Mark Griffith
D rumsticks that are not made

from wood is not a new idea.
Those of us who have been around
I was lucky enough to speak with
Techra’s Alessandro Bordignon
who is one of the designers of the
was surprised and inspired by our
conversation. I tried their sticks
years ago, and truthfully, I didn’t
for a while have seen the idea come carbon fiber and the polymers like them. But Techra admits, that
and go with varied amounts of that Techra uses for their sticks. I (for many reason) those original
success. One of the problems was Techra sticks weren’t very good.
that when we tried those sticks, Today, they are doing things very
Alessandro Bordignon
the results have felt and sounded differently, and in the process, they
“weird.” I’m not a scientist, I’m a are changing the way that we all
musician, and I care about the feel about drumsticks that aren’t
sound and the feel of my sticks, and made from wood.
everything that those two words This evolution began by
entail. Because of that, I was eager designing several new polymers,
to talk to someone at Techra Sticks. then new machinery was
Techra Sticks is not a new developed to create sticks from
company, in fact it’s quite the these various carbon fibers and
contrary. Techra, and their 60 polymers. Then they put together
employees, have been around for a group of professional and
a long-time as a subcontractor demanding drummers and well-
making carbon fiber parts for sports respected teachers to test and
cars and airplanes. But they always assist in designing their new Techra
wanted to develop a new carbon Drumsticks. It turns out, that I had
fiber that would be perfect for a lot to learn about carbon fiber,
carbon fiber drumsticks. polymers, and stick making.
AB: The main company of Techra was born in 1959, we make That’s why Techra Drumsticks were not really that well known.
mechanical components out of polymers and carbon fibers. We Five years ago, we came out with two new models of sticks. Last
have been making parts for automobiles and airplanes, and we year we invented a new third model, and we discontinued all of
study how different compounds work to make the best parts our original sticks. Today, we have fine-tuned the materials and
possible. We develop different materials internally for whatever the process of making of all new carbon fiber drumsticks.
we are making. We make parts for Audi, Bentley, Ferrari, MD: I remember playing those original sticks. What is the
Lamborghini, McLaren, and others. We have always worked for difference between the original Techra Sticks, and the new
the big names in the automotive industry, Techra is in the high- Techra Sticks?
performance polymer manufacturing business. AB: Almost everything about our sticks has changed. The
No one ever called us to develop a material for drumsticks. performance, the sound, the durability, the comfort—
Our knowledge of carbon fiber drew us into the drumstick everything! We produce the sticks with injection molding, so
business about 15 years ago, but initially we didn’t have the the straightness is always the same. But with our new polymers,
technology that we have today. Even if we had done enough the sound has improved a lot, the rim shot, the sidestick and the
research, overall we didn’t market the drum sticks correctly. sound on the cymbals is much better. They are especially great
for studio recording because the sound is more consistent, and loves them now.
easier to equalize. MD: What is this new composite?
Of course, the benchmark is always wood, but to tell you the AB: When we are talking about high
truth, it is not a very fair competition. Carbon fiber and wood are performance polymers, you must realize,
two very different things. Techra presents a new development in that is what I love. I am not a technician or
drumsticks. All the previous sticks that aren’t wood, and even the an engineer but I have spent my entire life
older Techra sticks were made very differently and with different working on polymers, composites, carbon
materials. None of them are comparable to Techra Sticks, ours fiber, glass fiber, and things like that. I fine-
are made from one piece of solid material. Techra is the only tune the carbon fiber materials personally.
manufacturer in the world that makes the sticks this way, and MD: Since we are talking to drummers (not
they are real drumsticks. scientists,) let me start with some basic
MD: Why did Techra get into making drumsticks? questions. What is carbon fiber? Are there
AB: Every subcontracting entrepreneur aims to have a product different carbon fibers? Is all carbon fiber
of their own that comes from his own knowledge and credibility. the same?
We are musicians and have been in a relationship with an AB: Carbon fiber is an acrylic fiber that is
important Italian keyboard company that suggested that we made under high temperatures, and the
start manufacturing high temperature
something innovative in changes the material
the traditional musical Virgil Donati and Alessandro from acrylic to
instrument industry. We carbon, that’s why
started making guitar it’s black. There are
stands, picks, guitar cases, many different kinds
and sticks; We patented of carbon fiber. Our
five products. But that older discontinued
was the wrong way to Carbon Pro sticks
approach things. After were made from
some years we stopped a standard carbon
making all of those fiber. But our XCarb
accessories because sticks are made from
I thought that if we a different composite.
focused our time and Our newest carbon
knowledge on drumsticks, fiber is being used for
we could be successful the Black Diamond
in creating a better Sticks. That is a more
drumstick. Drumsticks are durable and different
not accessories, they are carbon fiber that
musical instruments, and performs better and
I wanted to treat them as feels more like wood.
such. That is how we treat The carbon fiber
them. that is used on a
MD: What drummers did Boeing 787 is not
you work with on your necessarily the same
new sticks? that is used on sports
AB: We have many cars, and neither of
drummers that we them are the same
enlisted to help us as the carbon fiber
develop the sticks, and some of those drummers have become that is used for Techra sticks. The resin that
endorsers. Jonathan Mover, Francis Cappola, Carlton Santa Davis holds the fiber together is a very important
and Richard Town II have all been integral in the development component as well. Resin keeps the carbon
and testing of the new sticks. We are preparing two signature fibers together. There is a chemical bond
drumstick models for Virgil Donati, one will be like an XCarb 2B, between the different resins and the
and one will be a version of the Black Diamond 5B. Virgil uses the different carbon fibers that makes them a
two different sticks for different styles of music. He really cares very strong link.
about comfort and feel. MD: Since all of your models are made
Whenever someone told me about issues, I addressed them out of different composites, what is the
with different composites, compounds, and models. Then I basic difference between the different
would send out new samples for testing. At the end of this long composites?
process, we came up with what we are now releasing to the AB: The difference between the composites
world. At the beginning Richard didn’t like the models that we is really like talking about the differences
sent him for many different reasons. Because of his involvement, in Ferrari’s and Lamborghini’s. It would be
we discontinued the Carbon Pro model, from that point forward easier for me to answer that in terms of
we developed a new composite. Through his cooperation, he performance, otherwise this would quickly

turn into science class. The Colossus is a stronger as a resin, and that becomes the basis for the Black
version of XCarb. Those two models are made from Diamond sticks. Black Diamond sticks are not made
the same composite, and XCarb is much lighter from oil-based polymers. The XCarb and the Colossus
than wood. It’s weight is like maple. These sticks are still petroleum based, but not the Black Diamond.
appeal to the very fine artists and drummers who MD: What kinds of other stick design obstacles did
are very particular about their instruments. The new you encounter while designing the sticks?
Black Diamond sticks were developed in a different AB: The process of stick design is very difficult.
way, that composite lasts much longer. It is the From a mechanical point of view, you cannot just
same weight as wood, but it creates an all-round copy a wood stick with carbon fiber, you just won’t
instrument, and it costs much less. have the same result. We do not use a standard
Not only are our materials different, but our injection molding process. Any engineer that works
manufacturing is very different as well. Compared with polymers can tell you that filling a mold in this
with other manufacturer’s processes, our process shape is very difficult, the outer wall of the mold
guarantees a higher reliability. Techra sticks are must be very thin, about 1mm. And the polymer
consistent all of the way through, the material is is not liquid, so it takes a lot of pressure to fill the
compact. That is why Techra sticks are perfectly mold. And it is even more difficult to create uniform
balanced. density throughout the stick. The way that we put
MD: How does the sound of the different carbon the material into the molds causes our fibers stay
fiber compounds compare to wood, because for me perfectly straight throughout the length of the stick.
it’s all about sound. The materials, the process, and the machinery is very
AB: On drums the sound is the same as wood, expensive to create these sticks. Because of that, I
there is no difference. On cymbals the sound falls would suggest that it would be virtually impossible to
somewhere between wood and nylon tips. Virgil copy of these sticks.
Donati fell in love with the Black Diamond when MD: I played some older acrylic sticks, and I felt a lot
he first tried them. He loved the way that they of shock in my hands, how did Techra resolve that
sounded on cymbals. Virgil liked that the sticks were issue?
a consistently perfectly matched and balanced pair AB: The rubber tip that we now put on the butt end of
of sticks. No other stick manufacturer, and no other the sticks has resolved that. It absorbs the vibrations.
material, can provide that. You can use any of our Jonathan Mover worked with us, he had some issues
sticks of the same size and they will be exactly the with his wrists before he came to us, and we created
same. Virgil found that to be a huge advantage, a stick for him, and he is having less problems with
and that creates a higher level of comfort for him. his wrists. Other people that have tried our sticks
From a financial point of view, he doesn’t care much that have had previous issues with their elbows.
about durability, but he likes that our sticks are These same drummers have found some relief from
more convenient in handling them and he has less Techra sticks because there is less shock and internal
unexpected losses while playing. The consistency vibration than with wood.
and the better sound just make the Techra Black MD: How do Techra sticks react with sweat?
Diamond Stick a better instrument. AB: For those drummers with sweat issues, we make
MD: But for the typical drummer durability would be a Super Grip model that has a varnish that eliminates
an appeal because you don’t break as many sticks. the slippery feel when you sweat. That makes the
AB: Of course. There is one drummer who buys and sticks not too sticky and removes the slippery feel of
uses our sticks who plays heavier music that says sweat on a wood stick. But I encourage drummers
that he is saving about $2000 a year because he no to stop comparing composite sticks to wood, these
longer must buy so many sticks. sticks are a completely different experience.
For consumers it is a matter of money and MD: Do carbon fiber sticks ever break?
reliability. But for artists it is a matter of comfort, AB: Yes, they do. In time, everything breaks. But
balance, and (of course) sound. These sticks are a we calculated the life of the Black Diamond sticks,
perfect package of all of that, and you really can’t and they last 10 times or more than wood sticks.
find all of that in any wood sticks today. The XCarb and the Colossus lasts between four and
Techra has solved all the problems of wood sticks, nine times longer than wood sticks. We like to have
the cymbal sound is better and more consistent. different models and different materials, not just
The sidestick is much better, that is why Carlton different sizes, because they give drummers different
Santa Davis loves them for Reggae music. Techra options. As I said, all of Techra sticks are made from
sticks are perfectly balanced, perfectly paired, with different materials. Jazz drummers seem to prefer
much lower vibrations, the don’t wear out, they chip the XCarb over the Black Diamond, but the Black
very little. I don’t think there is any reasons to keep Diamond lasts longer and costs less. Right now, we
cutting down trees to make drumsticks. are only distributing the Black Diamond sticks in the
MD: Are Techra Sticks actually better for the United States. But all of the different models will be
environment? available in the near future.
AB: The Black Diamond sticks come from renewable MD: I must say that I am intrigued by what Techra has
sources. The carbon fiber itself isn’t plant based. created. Thank you.
However, we extract an oil from plants that acts

THE DRUMMER
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CHECK OUT MORE AT MODERNDRUMMER.COM
TRANSCRIPTION
“The Deathless Horsie”

Transcription by Marc Atkinson
R ecorded live at the Odeon Hammersmith in London England

on February 19th, 1979, Frank Zappa’s “The Deathless Horsie”
was the show opener and appeared on the recording Shut Up
one bar a day might be appropriate. The importance is that you
do it every day. I cannot emphasize this enough!
Here are some notes on the actual transcription. First: the
‘n Play Yer Guitar. Vinnie Colaiuta’s drumming is an unbelievable construction of the vamp is a repeating 4/4 and 6/4 phrase. With
display of polyrhythmic prowess and musical audacity. that in mind you will notice the word “splice” at measure 65. This
When approaching this (or any) transcription, I would like to is where Frank cut out about eight measures of the solo. The
offer three words of advice. One: Patience. When you begin to splice occurs halfway through the 4/4 and 6/4 vamp so that you
learn this piece and you come to your first obstacle (and there will end up with two measures of 4/4. Which (visually) reverses the
be obstacles!) remember that learning happens slowly. To gain measure order. I eventually bring back the proper phrasing order
the “chops” and finesse to play this, it will take time and patience. at the end of the solo, when it is ascetically appropriate to do so.
Mastery requires patience. Finally, don’t be afraid to lead with the left hand. Sticking’s are
Second: Boredom! Fall in love with boredom. Repetition is the everything! Have fun!
mother of invention (pun intended). There will be sections of this
solo that make you feel like you are hitting a
brick wall. I promise if you slow down and do Music Key
the work, it will pay off enormously. Embrace
the suck, that’s where the juice is!
Finally: Consistency! It is far more useful
to spread out your practice time to a small
amount every day, rather than a large amount
in one day. To learn a solo like this, attacking





Marc Atkinson, a dedicated musician, honed

his craft under the guidance of the renowned
Gary Chaffee. Now calling Las Vegas home,
Marc is on the brink of unveiling his labor of
love—a comprehensive transcription book
that promises to captivate music enthusiasts
worldwide. Stay tuned !!
Check out Marc’s Modern Drummer profile page and get your copy of
The Bass Drum Owners Manual at moderndrummer.com
BASICS
Be Undeniable
By Chris Lesso
top to bottom, taking no prisoners. It’s A sure sign you’ve arrived is when
“Be so good they can’t a solid approach that demands solid not everyone’s a fan. Putting yourself
ignore you.” habits. This is the art of managing out there will definitely bother those
oneself, which is easier said than done. that were too shy to try. What is it that
-Steve Martin When you commit to the path, the makes you unique? Have the valour to
useless falls away. The old you will exploit it, and then magnify it. Trying to
Whether you want to be a rising star need to die for the new you to rise. The please everyone is watered down and
on stages around the world or simply addiction to cramming more and more mediocre. Even if only one person really
cultivate a daily drumming meditation in into our already bursting days falls by gets what you’re doing, it’s because
your practice room, be undeniable in all the wayside so of your true
you do. It’s a standard we hold ourselves we can finally expression from
to that ripples out into our lives beyond breathe. You’re the heart. When
the cymbals. To be undeniable is to step now connecting you become a
into the fullest version of yourself you to something clear bold version
can be, with no gaps in your game. higher than of YOU, you’re
To be an ‘amateur’ comes from the yourself. To be fully formed and
word ‘amore’, or love. The amateur undeniable complete. So
loves the game but has nothing else, is to be an when the trolls
only showing up when they feel like unabashedly come out to play,
it. They’re ‘sort of ok’ in one area, and crystal clear you’re bulletproof
‘kind of not bad’ in another. But to be version of YOU, with the courage
undeniable is to think like a craftsman. bringing your to be disliked.
What’s the difference? Respect and untapped potential to light. The vision There will be many that won’t like it, but
dedication to the process and coming of your design finally comes into laser they can’t deny it.
correct with the craftsman mindset. Even focus. Part of being undeniable is the
if your goal is only to play a few songs This is where business skills come strength of your relationships, even
on the weekend and feel the benefits of into play. The game of business is an your relationship to music, the drums,
drumming, be undeniable in that. It’s an exchange of value, even if that value is and yourself. All the other skills
attitude you bring to everything you do. only to yourself. How good are you at strengthen this one at the core. It’s in
these are skills unto themselves is far your messaging, communication, how
“Do or do not. There is no try.” removed from the paradiddles and fills you relate to all those around you. Over
-Yoda we love. time, the world takes notice. What’s the
• Organizing what you do into systems definition of your reputation? It’s what
Whether you make money at drumming • Time and energy management people say about you when you’re not
or not makes no difference. To be • Taking the time to reflect and review in the room. We can’t control this, but
undeniable, you must “go pro.” Going • Saying ‘NO!’ to those that drain your we can always command the habits,
pro is an attitude, an agreement with focus choices, and actions we take. When you
yourself to approach what you do with • Leaning in to your community get that together, even if you’re disliked,
the highest standards. These are the • Staying accountable to your mentors the reputation takes care of itself. You
things that have nothing to do with • Creating and following habits with may not be everybody’s cup of tea, but
drumming, but have everything to do discipline no one can deny you being the honest,
with drumming. Confronting any of these weaknesses relentless, focused, and determined
• Showing up on time. is the uncomfortable tedious work version of yourself you were meant to
• Living by your word; doing what you that defines you. You may be awesome become.
say, when you say you’ll do it. behind the kit, but have never given Are you ready to unleash your
• Being laser focused by ruthlessly any thought to your communication or potential in drumming and life? Chris
deleting the unessential. organizational skills. No one’s perfect at Lesso’s LTR DRUMMING METHOD
• Over-preparing. everything, but strive to mold that fully is for drummers who want to reach
• Sharpening communication skills. formed version of yourself that’s living higher. If you’re ready to live your best
• Having the courage to be vulnerable. just over the horizon. Allow no gaps in self through drumming, book your
• Knowing your mighty WHY. your game. It’s this ruthless simplicity first free session at chrislesso.net/
that will make you undeniable. LTRDRUMMING
“It is more difficult to rule yourself
than to rule a city.” “Character is the tree, reputation is Check out Chris’s Modern
-Jordan Peterson the shadow.” Drummer profile page at
-Abraham Lincoln moderndrummer.com
To be undeniable is an attitude. Execute

Carl Palmer’s Applied Rhythms
Buy from your favorite retailer

check out more at moderndrummer.com
JAZZ DRUMMER’S WORKSHOP
Fill-In Studies Groups of Four Fill-ins

By Joe Morello Arrow Notation Key
ke
J
e
oe Morello advanced Groups of Four with Fill-Ins
ro
ke
ok
st
ro
tr
n
s
st
the idea of endurance These fill-ins are the next part of Joe Morello’s
ow
ll
p
Fu
Ta
U
D
> >
exercises with his Fill-In Fill In Studies that were introduced last month,
Studies included in his book and also appeared in Joe’s book Master Studies.
œ œ œ œ
Master Studies. These are not This month you will be playing accented
“drum fills,” instead they are groups of four with one hand, while filling in
endurance exercises built on with the other hand. Again, after learning to
R L R L
the idea of filling in between play these as written, you should practice them
the primary rhythm of the with the stickings reversed. Up and down arrows = Full Stroke
exercise. Dash = Tap Stroke
Down arrow = Down Stroke
Up arrow = Up Stroke
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
1 2
L R L L L L L L L L L L R L L L L R L
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
3 4
L L L L L R L L R L L R L L L L R L L R L
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
5
L R L L R L L R L L R L L L L R L L L L L
> > > >

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7 8
L R L L L L R L L L L L L R L L R L L L
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ ..
9 10
œœœ œœœ œ œ œœœ œœœ œœœ
L R L L R L L R L L L L R L L R L L R L L R L
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
11 12
L L L L L L R L L L L L L R L L L L R
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
13 14
L L R L L L L L L R L L L L R L L R L L R
> > > >

.œ . .œ .
15
œœœ œœœ œœœ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ

> > > >
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17 18
L L R L L L L R L L L L L L L L R L L R
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
19 20
L L R L L R L L L L R L L R L L R L L R L L R
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
21 22
L R L R L L L L L L L L L R L R L L L R L R
> > 24 > >

.
? C .œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ ..
23
œ œ œ œœœœœœœœ œ œœœœœœœœ
L L L L L R L R L R L R L R L R L L L R L R L R L R
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
25
L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L L L R L R L L L L
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
27 28
L R L R L L L R L R L L L L L R L R L R L R L L
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
29 30
L R L R L R L R L R L R L L L R L R L R L R L R L R L R L R
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
31 32
L L L L L L R L R L L R L L L R L R L L L R
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
33 34
L L R L R L R L R L L L L L R L R L R L R L R L R L
> > > >

.
? C .œ .. .. œ œ œ ..
35
œœœœœœœ œœœœœœ œ œœœ œ œ œ
L L R L R L R L L R L R L R L R L L L R L L L L
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
37 38
L R L L R L L L R L L R L R L R L L R L R L L L
> > > >

? C .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
39 40
L R L R L R L L R L R L R L L R L R L L R L R L L R L R
Check out Joe’s Modern Drummer profile page and
get your copy of Master Studies at moderndrummer.com
November 2023 Modern Drummer 55
ROCK PERSPECTIVES
The Encyclopedia of Double Bass Drumming

Skiplets
By Bobby Rondinelli and Michael Lauren
In the new and revised edition of the Encyclopedia of Double Skiplets are triplets where one foot
Bass Drumming, Bobby includes nine new double bass plays the first triplet partial, and
drumming chapters. The new and expanded edition covers the other foot plays the next two.
contemporary techniques such as bass drum double strokes, They can be in any combination try
feet-only exercises, binary and ternary rhythms, “skiplets”, starting or ending with one.
beat turnarounds, the “ladder”, and playing doubles with the • Try all the possible footings in the
hands while playing singles with the feet. These concepts will warm-ups.
challenge your playing while expanding your double bass • You will find which Skiplets suit your
vocabulary. If practiced with intention and diligence, this style.
material will help to prepare you for the demands of today’s •The beats and fills have many Skiplet
music. This material is advanced, but completely attainable for patterns. Feel free to substitute the
anyone who has completed the previous chapters in the book. ones that you like best.
This month Bobby teaches about patterns that he calls Skiplets. • Skiplets can also be played with the left foot on the hi-hat and
left bass drum pedal together.
Warm-Ups
÷ 42 .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
1 2
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
1 L R R L R R L R R L R R 1 R R L R R L R R L R R L
2 R L L R L L R L L R L L 2 L L R L L R L L R L L R
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ ..
3 4
œ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 3 3
1 R L R R L R R L R R L R 1 L R R L R R L
2 L R L L R L L R L L R L 2 R L L R L L R
3 R R L R R L R
4 R L R R L R R
5 L R L L R L L
6 L L R L L R L
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ ..
5 6
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3
1 R R R L R R L 1 R R R L R R L R
2 L L R R L R R 2 L L R R L R R L
3 R R L L R L L 3 R L R R L R R L
4 R R L R R L R 4 L L L R L L R L
5 L L R L L R L 5 R R L L R L L R
6 L L L R L L R 6 R L L R L L R L
÷ .. œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. ..
7 8
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3
1 R L R R L R L L 1 L R R L L L R R
2 R R R L R R R L 2 R R L R R R R L
3 L L R R L L R R 3 R L L R R R L L
4 L L L R L L L R 4 R R L R L R R L
5 R R L L R R L L 5 L L R L R L L R
6 R L L R L R R L 6 R L L R L R R L

Beats
• Left foot can be played as bass drum or bass drum and hi-hat together.
3 3 3 3
÷ 44 œ
y y œy y y y y y . y y y y y y œy y
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
1 2
œ œ œ œ
œ .
œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 3 3
y y y y y y œy y . y y y y y y y y
÷ .. œ œ œ œ ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
3 4
œ œ œœœ . œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 3 3
y y œy y y y œy y . y y œy y y y œy y .
÷ .. œ ÷ .. œ
5 6
œ œ œœœœœœ . .
œœœœœœœœœœœœ œ
3 3 3 3
y y y y y y y y . y y œy y y y œy y .
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ÷ ..
7 8
. .
œ œœœœœœ œ œ œœœ
3 3 3 3
y y y œy y y y œy y y œy y y y œy y .
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ
9 10
œ œ œ œœœœœœ œ .
3 3 3 3 3 3
y y y y y y y y . y y y y y y œy y .
÷ .. œ œ œ ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ
11 12
œœœœœœœ œ . œ œ œ œ œœœœœœ
.
3 3 3 3 3
y y œy y y y œy y . y y y y y y y y
÷ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
13 14
.
œœœœœœ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3
y y y y y œ y œy y . y y œy y y y y y .
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ÷ .. œ
15 16
œœ œœ . œ œ œ.
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 3 3 3
y y y y y y y y . y y y y y y y y
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
17 18
.
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ

3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ ..
19 20
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
21 22
œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ
3 3
y y y œ y y y œy y y y y
÷ .. œ œy œ œ œ œ ..
23 3 3
œ œ œœœœœœ œ œœœœœœ
3 3 3
y y œ y y œy y œy y y y œy y y y œy y
÷ .. œ œ ..
24
œ œ œ œ œœœœœœ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3
y y y y y y y y y œy y œy y y œy y .
÷ .. œ œ .
25
œ œ œ œ
œœœ œœœ œœœœœœ
3
y y y y y y y y y y y y y y œ œ œ œ
÷ .. œ ..
26
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3
÷ .. œ œ œ
27
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
œœ œœ œœœœœœ
3 3 3 3 3 3
y y œy y œy y œy y y y œy y y y œy y
..
÷œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ
3 3
y y y y y y y y y y y y y y
÷ .. œ œy y
28
œ œ œ œ œ œ
œœœœœœœ
3
y y œy y y y y y
3 3
÷œ .
œœœœ œ œœœœ œ œœœœ œ œ œ œ .
œ
3
œ œ œœœ

Fills
÷ 44 œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
3 3 3
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
1 2
œ œ œ
3 3
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
3 4 3 3
œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 3 3
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
5 6 3 3 3 3
œ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
7 8
œ œ œ œ
3
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
3 3
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
9 3 3 10
3 3
œ œ œ œ œ œ
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
3 3 3 3
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
11 3 3 3 3 12
œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ
3 3 3
13 14
œ œ œ
3 3
15 16 3 3
œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 3 3
17 18 3 3 3 3
œ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
19 20
œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
21 3 3 22 3 3
œ œ œ œ œ œ
Check out Bobby’s Modern Drummer profile pages
and get your copy of The Encyclopedia of Double Bass
Drumming at moderndrummer.com
ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC
The Bass Drum Owners Manual:

Groove Etude and Hi-hat Substitutions
By Michael Packer
T his month Modern Drummer will continue to include excerpts from Michael Packer’s essen-
tial book on bass drum control and technique The Bass Drum Owners Manual: Applying the
Moeller Technique to the Bass Drum. As you have seen in previous months, this is a new way of
The Bass Drum Owners Manual
Applying the Moeller Technique DIGITA
DOWN L DV
INCLU LOAD
DED
D
thinking about bass drum (and foot) control that is based in an old, popular, and useful hand to the Bass Drum
By Michael Packer
technique called The Moeller Technique. Michael addresses the essential components of bass
drum and hi-hat control. Let Michael’s wisdom and the wisdom of the Moeller Technique
help you improve the control, sound, and eventually speed, of your feet, regardless of musical
style.
Hi-Hat Substitutions
After learning the following Groove Etude as written, any of the following hi-hat patterns can
be substituted. Pay close attention to the accents of the new hi-hat patterns. Once the exer-
cises are comfortable add embellishments for a more musical approach.

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Groove Etude #1
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Check out Michael’s Modern Drummer profile page and get your copy of
The Bass Drum Owners Manual at moderndrummer.com
TEACHER’S FORUM
Snare Drum Duets

“Duet 3”
By Ron Spagnardi
R on Spagnardi wrote a terrific book called Snare Drum Duets:

25 Duets For Two Snare Drummers. It offers a selection of 25
challenging duets that range in difficulty from relatively simple
individual solos for improvement of basic
reading skills. Conscientious practice of the
material in snare drum duets will most defi-
to more complex. A wide assortment of time signatures is used nitely improve both reading and technical
throughout the book, from 2/4 and common time to 5/8, 7-8, skills, regardless of the manner in which the
and 12/8, among others. These snare drum duets can be used in book is utilized.
several different ways This month’s ”Duet 3” is written in 3/8.
Two players may use the book as written in duet format, While this is not as common as 6/8 or 12/8,
remembering to alternate parts. The metronome marking above it will get you used to counting and seeing
each duet indicates the suggested speed at which the material music when the eighth note is counted as
should be performed. However, the tempo can be adjusted up “the beat.” You’re your brain and eyes make that shift, this duet
or down in accordance with the ability of the players. Obviously is not as difficult as it looks. Note that the suggested tempo is
precise execution and perfect timing are essential on the part of written as the dotted quarter note is at 56 bpm. That means that
both players when performing the material in duet format. the metronome will sound on the one of each bar. The written
For those working with the book without the benefit of a dynamics really add some musicality to this duet.
second player snare drum parts one and two can be practiced as

Check out Ron’s Modern Drummer profile page and get your
copy of Snare Drum Duets at moderndrummer.com

A DIFFERENT VIEW
Drummer and A&R Person
Dave Rath
It’s the Drums That Makes People Move
By Mark Griffith
M aybe you are in a band that is trying to “make it” and get
signed, but young musicians and bands must navigate a lot
of things these days. And with many of those things, come different
people with different titles: Manager, agent, booking agent,
producer, promoter, engineer… The list goes on and on. If you are
lucky, one of the first people that you’ll encounter on your “quest for
success” is an A&R person. But what do those people do? Who better
to ask about the world of A&R than a drummer who is now one of
the leading A&R people in music, Dave Rath.
Dave Rath was (and is) the drummer for the Philadelphia based
hard rock and metal band Heavens Edge. He started by studying
with well-known drum teacher Mark LaRosa, (like the rest of us)
he idolized John Bonham, and played along to Aerosmith and
Van Halen albums on his basement turntable. 30 years ago, after
releasing their debut album on Columbia Records, Heavens Edge
stopped playing. They reformed recently and play a few high profile
gigs a year and have a new album called Get It Right on Frontiers
Records.
So, what has Dave Rath been doing for the last 20 years? He was
the head of A&R at Roadrunner Records. When (Warner Music Group
label) Atlantic Records bought Roadrunner, Dave became the sole,
stand-alone A&R guy on the label with a full roster of over 30 bands.
Some of those bands were signed by Dave, and some weren’t. These
days Dave runs his newly formed label, Blue Grape Music. Through
his A&R career Dave is responsible for signing or working with
(among others:) Slipknot, Nickelback, Korn, Young the Giant, Gojira,
White Reaper, Turnstile, and Code Orange. As an A&R person it is
up to Dave to help make records with the bands, and he pays close
attention to the drummers in those bands. But what do A&R people
do? That is where we started our conversation.
64 Modern Drummer July 2023

DR: 30 years ago, when Heavens Edge was done, I found myself MD: Your band came out of a musical community and a very
with a bunch of demos on my desk from friends looking for active scene. Do you think it is still important to have those
help getting a record deal. I started managing a couple bands, scenes, and musical communities to foster new music?
and eventually got a job at Roadrunner Records where over a DR: That’s a great question! Being part of and coming out
period of years I became of a scene is hugely
the head of the A&R important. I grew up
department. in New York on Long
During my early Island, so I saw the scene
years there, I worked in on Long Island. When
conjunction the A&R I relocated to Philly, I
staff before I became a became a part of the
standalone A&R person. Philadelphia music scene.
Some of those on the staff Philly is a small enough
knew my background city that you can reach
with Heavens Edge, and everybody, and it is large
even if they didn’t know enough where if you
my band, they knew that are making something
I had spent a lot of time happen in Philly, word
in the studios, knew a lot will spread to the people
of producers, and had who pull the big levers.
made a lot of records. The scene is also small
When it came time to enough where you can
formally assume A&R cultivate a sound. In
responsibilities, I felt New York, the minute
ready to do it. that a band draws more
One of my first than 10 people, the A&R
thoughts about every community descends
and any band that I’ve and snatches the band
ever signed, or any record up before they have the
that I’ve ever made, is chance to develop into
“what’s happening with something. It’s like being
the drummer? What does born pre-mature. In Philly
the drummer sound like? you have a chance to
Is this player the right really build an audience
person for the record and and get something going.
the band?” I never really I think Philly is the most
considered myself a great exciting music town in
drummer, but one of in the in the country
the things that I’d like to right now and I am down
Madison Phipps
think I do well, is identify there a lot seeing what

what the right drumming is happening. There are
or drummer is for the a lot of bands from the
situation. surrounding areas outside
Modern Drummer July 2023 65

of Philly who, instead of coming to New York, are moving to exciting to me.
Philly. It’s not the same scene as when you and I were there MD: Many younger musicians might not know what an A&R
many years ago, but the aesthetic is still the same. person does, so what do you as an A&R person actually do?
There’s an incredible independent documentary film maker DR: A&R stands for “Artist and Repertoire”, which is a bit of an
named Sunny Singh down there who has a company called archaic term that dates back to the time when people from the
“hate5six” who has been filming hardcore shows in Philadelphia record company would first find the artist, then A&R people
for the past decade. He puts the stuff up on YouTube and, would bring songs to the artist. For example, Frank Sinatra
because the hardcore community is not very territorial, no one didn’t necessarily write much of his own music, so A&R people
objects. Record companies love Sunny’s filming because the would bring songs to him written by outside writers, essentially
most important thing is getting the music out there. He has managing his repertoire. This sort of thing happened less
really helped communicate what’s happening in Philly to the frequently as the rock world developed and artists were more
rest of the musical world. known for composing their own material. Even though that was
The difference between the New York scene and the Philly always the norm, I’ve noticed a slight trend in which more rock
scene, is like Nashville and Los Angeles; It’s very transient, bands bands are co-writing now than was happening years ago.
go to New York to play and be seen but they’re not growing out Today, the A&R person’s job is to find the talent and surround
of New York, with Brooklyn as the exception. But even Brooklyn the talent with the people that they need to make the best
is becoming fairly transient in my opinion, Philly is not. Philly is records. The right producer, engineer, mixer, mastering person,
a destination and a place to cultivate and grow and that’s really and songwriters. We help with the sequencing on the album,

Today, the A&R person’s job is to ﬁnd the
talent and surround the talent with the
people that they need to make the best
records... Simply put, our job is to ﬁnd the
talent and help get the record made.
listen to the demos, and even help shape the songs. Some out, that was the first drum machine I was aware of that made
bands need a fair amount of that, and some bands need none everybody believe drummers would eventually be replaced by
of it. Many times, as bands go further in their careers, an A&R programmed drums. Funny though… a few years ago I went to
person needs to know when to step back. Some bands can go see Twenty-One Pilots play at Madison Square Garden and the
on autopilot because they know exactly what they’re doing, only musicians visible on stage were a drummer and a singer.
and they don’t even need an A&R person. Conversely, some That is because there’s no substitute for the energy of a live
established acts can benefit from a fresh perspective an A&R drummer. Nothing is going to replace the drums, in fact, quite
person might provide. I worked with Slash on a few of his solo the opposite has happened.
albums, and when I met him, he said, “I didn’t even know A&R MD: So as an A&R person, what do you do when you hear a
people existed anymore, what do you even do?” Simply put, our great band, and the drummer is just not cutting it?
job is to find the talent and help get the record made. DR: That’s a loaded question. I hate to say it, but it matters. I’ve
After all of those years in the major label system, I left and seen it myself where I thought there is no way this band is ever
started my own record company with the original founder of going to get anywhere with this guy (or girl) playing drums, it’s
Roadrunner Records, Cees Wessels. The label is called Blue Grape just not gonna happen. At that point, I either sign the band with
Music. It’s named after Cees’ original merch company, which in the drummer in the group and help them develop to be their
the 80s, 90s, and 2000s was a well-known merch brand in the best. I can suggest ways for them to improve. Or I can suggest
heavy metal world. I thought because Blue Grape had a history that it isn’t gonna work with this drummer and we have to make
it would be a great name for a label. It also doesn’t really sound a change. I can’t say that I’ve done that, but I’ve certainly seen it
“heavy metal” which is good because happen.
that’s not all that we do. I signed some
alternative bands over the years such as There’s no MD: As we all know, the drummer acts
as a producer on everything he plays.
the alternative bands Young the Giant Therefore, I was wondering if producing
and White Reaper. At Roadrunner it was
difficult to sign anything “non-metal”
substitute for has become part of your new musical
role?
because the Roadrunner brand stood for
Sepultura, Fear Factory, Nickelback, and the energy of a DR: In my opinion, drummers are
A&R people. For the most part, we
Slipknot. I didn’t want to be boxed in like drummers have to hitch our wagon to
that again.
Some of the greatest record company
live drummer. a group to find success. We’re not the
front person and we’re usually not the
presidents, whether it’s Clive Davis, Ahmet
Ertegun, or Craig Kallman, were A&R Nothing is main songwriters. (Although I do think
people like Don Henley and Phil Collins
guys first and foremost. A&R really drives are great songwriters because they
things. As I mentioned earlier, in rock
music, when I look at bands (and I know
going to build everything from the bottom up.
Joey Jordison, the original drummer
I’m biased,) the drumming is what makes
everything blossom. Everything happens
replace the from Slipknot, was a big part of their
songwriting, and that’s why Slipknot
because of the rhythm of the music, that’s fundamentally sounds the way they do.)
what gets people going. Most times that drums, in fact, As drummers looking to land
drumming is supplied by a drummer, or it a gig in a group, we must identify
can be a programmed drum part, or it can
be a hybrid of the two, that’s happening
quite the what bands we think are going to be
successful. Before we are going to play
quite a bit now. I obviously believe in live with somebody, we gotta figure out if this
drums, but if programmed drums are opposite has person (or band) has the talent to get us
done right, they can move someone just where we want to go. As a member of
as much.
Years ago, when the Roland R-8 came
happened. a band, we are constantly evaluating if
we’re in the “right” band. The way I see it,

a drummer acts as a talent scout, which is what an A&R person band decide where they want to go as they’re writing music.
does. When I was in Heavens Edge, there were a few times that The artists and I talk about what they are trying to accomplish
other bands asked me to quit Heavens Edge and join their band. with the album and the songs. Then we discuss who is going to
Besides the fact that I love those guys and they’re my brothers, I produce the album, or we discuss if indeed a producer is even
thought Heavens Edge was my best chance to succeed. Whether necessary.
the music is truly in your soul is always a factor and (of course) I’m working with a band right now and everybody has a
you gotta have that too. But the topic that we’re talking about different idea who should produce their record, everybody’s
now is can I get “there” with this band? Are these the guys that throwing producer names out there. Meanwhile, I’m saying,
I want to go into battle with? As a drummer, or any musician “Hold on a second. Let’s hear what the songs are first!” It
in fact, whether you know it or not, you’re constantly making depends on the songs to really decide who is gonna produce a
that decision. You are always evaluating talent, and I’ve always record. Sure, with somebody like Mutt Lange, Def Leppard and
thought in those terms. AC/DC felt that he was going to help shape their sound,
With Heavens Edge, our that happens. But I believe that every time a band
guitarist Reggie Wu was
the main songwriter, and
As a member makes a piece of music, they should reevaluate and ask
those questions. As an A&R person it’s very important to
he would always bring
us demos of songs with of a band, we find that perfect mix and match of artist and producer.
In fact, it could be the MOST important thing!
programmed drum parts. On Blue Grape we have a band called Code Orange.
So as a drummer it was up
to me to either play the
are constantly When we began work on their new album, I knew that
finding the right producer was going to be a challenge.
part that he created or offer
a different point of view evaluating if There isn’t a band out there that makes music similar
to Code Orange. They’re very unique. The sonics on
and suggest a different their albums range from sounds you might hear from
tempo or an entirely
different feel for the song
we’re in the Pantera or Nine Inch Nails or even Fionna Apple. The
first two albums I worked on with them were critically
and see what that gets us.
In that way the drummer
“right” band. acclaimed and nominated for Grammys. Even so, going
into this new album, I was beginning to feel there
does become a producer, I wasn’t anybody that could produce the band, that they
agree. The way I see had to do it themselves. We decided to go that route.
MD: Do you consider We got Steve Albini to engineer because I knew the
yourself a producer as well?
DR: No, I’ve gotten co-
it, a drummer band wanted to capture the organic sound of the band
while still bringing their signature electronics added on
production credits on
records, but it has more to acts as a talent top. Who better than Steve Albini for that? Since there
wasn’t a producer who I could turn everything over
do with what I think the to and ask how things were going— I became much
A&R person’s job actually
is. I don’t like to blur those
scout, which is more involved than normal. But I think making such
a decision is really important for any A&R person. You
roles. That never helps.
MD: How does A&R shape a what an A&R really need to know how a record is gonna be shaped,
then once it’s recorded, what do you want it to sound
record, or a band? like? Who mixes a record is hugely important because
DR: The first thing that I do,
once the band is signed,
person does. (obviously) you want to get the sound correct, but you
also want to have a mixer that can really understand
is sit back and from a the language and speak the language of your band. As
distance, decide what are drummers we all know the drum language necessary to
we trying to do, what audience are we trying to reach, and what communicate with a mixer, “More crack on the snare” “Make the
kind of record or songs should we be making. The A&R person toms less tubby” “The bass drums could be more pointed, etc…
and the band must sit down and have that conversation. is a language all its own.
When working with a band, let’s take Gojira as an example, MD: What do you tell a band when they want to change their
we would initially talk about the nature of their album at the musical course into a career?
genesis of the process. Mario Duplantier is one of the greatest DR: I think A&R reps need to discuss the reality of what that
drummers in metal today. He and his brother Joe (singer and means. The “Holy Grail” for heavy metal bands is to capture the
guitarist) are the principal creative forces in the band. These widest audience possible without losing their credibility. The
guys are as accomplished as it gets. As an A&R person, my role greatest example of that is Metallica with the Black Album. They
can be more philosophical than technical with a band like that. managed to write commercial songs that are ubiquitous. That’s
I first ask myself and the band: “What are we trying to do here? often the path that many of the bands want to take. How do we
Are we ready to have Joe sing clean vocals? How much of that create a wider audience? But bands should be very careful not
do we want to happen? When that happens, what’s gonna to alienate their core fans because once they’re gone, they’re not
happen underneath it? What are the songs going to be?” I’m coming back. Be very careful.
not necessarily making decisions. I’m really trying to inspire That desire often involves different vocal approaches and
by asking questions. A band really needs to decide what sort more conventional arrangements. Some of the bands that I
of record they want to make, and then you build it from there. work with don’t write very linear songs. For example, Gojira
Every band writes music in different ways. I try to help the initially didn’t repeat their choruses, but they eventually began

to write songs with repeating choruses. I was immediately when I would ask if we had a single? But they didn’t need me to
concerned about what that was going to sound like. How were tell them what to do.
they doing that? Gojira are gifted musicians, and they were If I sign a band, it’s usually because I believe in them. I’m
able to incorporate repeating choruses and Gojira-style melody always inclined to let a band take a shot. As an A&R person
into their music. The goal is to accomplish that change, without you’re going to be wrong most of the time, because most bands
losing the essence of the band. They managed to do it. fail, that’s just the statistics of it. You’re going to be wrong more
There have been times when bands have taken that leap and than you’re right. Of course, you want to be right as much as
it hasn’t been successful, so they go back to “their roots” and possible.
make an album that echoes what got them there in the first MD: I personally think that many bands around today could
place. This doesn’t just happen in heavy metal and rock music, really benefit from a producer, but the art of producing is
it happens in all forms of music. How many times have we seen starting to get ignored by younger musicians. Is the same
artists say, “We’re getting back to our roots”? When a band says happening to the artform of A&R?
we want to do something different, I tell them to be ready for DR: There are a lot of very talented A&R guys out there. I worked
the consequences of it not working. But

they should always take the chance and But bands at Atlantic records with the fellow named
Pete Ganbarg who is one of the most
look to grow in every direction regardless talented A&R people around. He is a
of the uncertainty.
We’re here to make great art first and
should be very song wizard. He really helped the band
Halestorm. Pete combined them with
foremost, that’s what matters to me the
most. I want to be involved with music careful not (producer) Howard Benson and helped
them find and write songs that worked for
that’s going to exist 100 years from them.
now. Music that people will look back
on as important. Music that changed
to alienate The state of rock music production
has been a little stagnant over the past
things and created a seminal moment.
You always want to be driving towards
their core fans 15 or 20 years, that’s no secret. That’s
what happens when there’s a formula
that, that’s the most important part of that is successful, I call that the “post
it. Of course, a record label and a band because once grunge formula.” Nickelback is probably
are a business, and everybody needs to the greatest example of it. I worked with
make money. Otherwise, bands just play
in their basements forever. We need to
they’re gone, Nickelback for six or seven albums, I saw
that when it works, it works BIG! Over the
think about the balance between art and years, though, that production formula
commerce, but we always need to put they’re not became so repetitive that it lost its impact.
the art first. The production style of drums that are
Let’s take Slipknot for example, I wasn’t
walking into the studio and advising
coming back. completely in the box, on the grid, and
lined up perfectly; And guitars that are
them on what to do. When it came to the
mixing of their records, there were times Be very careful. layered to the point where there’s no
identity anymore, is just not working for

me anymore. Many of the bands are working with the same song called “Drop” which to me at the time was almost an
songwriters and the same producers, so it becomes a conveyor instrumental. There’s a drum fill in the beginning of it, and when
belt of the same sonics, production, BPM’s— Everything tends I heard that drum fill, I thought, “Oh my God, I’ve got to look into
to be the same and it gets really monotonous. It’s time to shake this band!” At the time, everything that I had been hearing was
things up, an A&R person should come in and say, “Let’s do this all “in the box,” exact, and perfect. But when I signed Turnstile, it
differently!” was (drummer) Daniel Fang’s fearless and natural groove that he
A generation of kids has grown up listening to that threw into hardcore music and turned it on its head; that’s what
production formula, so when they hear something that isn’t got my attention.
perfect, they think there’s something wrong with it. That’s A lot of people don’t know that Daniel is the drummer on
why a lot of rock music is afraid to veer off into the realm of countless other albums out there. He’s played on those records
human imperfection. However, in recent years that seems to be because Turnstile was produced by a guy named Will Yip. Will
slowly changing. That trend is slowly dissipating, and people is from Conshohocken, PA and Will Yip is one of the pioneers of
(particularly after COVID) are starving for the live experience— a alternative rock and hardcore production. Will works out of the
band in a room with a hot sweaty audience. However, that’s only famous Studio 4 in Pennsylvania and he has captured the sound
going to happen with that live feeling. Music needs to breathe. of that room. He has convinced drummers to get off of the
Pop, EDM, and programmed music has been popular for years, programmed sampled sounds and just play. Will is also a brilliant
and it will remain drummer who played with Lauryn Hill
popular. It’s called when he was a younger, and he’s one of
“pop music” for
a reason. But the
I never want the bands the producers that is shaping the sound
of modern alternative, hardcore, and
rock world is finally
starting to give way that I sign to sit still and punk music. When Will started working
with Turnstile and Daniel Fang, Daniel
to more organic and ended up playing on a lot of different
real feeling music.
Turnstile’s recorded
just regurgitate things records that Will was doing.
When I first heard Slipknot, signed
music feels as live
as it gets. I would that have already to Roadrunner by my friend Monte
Conner, it was Joey Jordison’s drumming
say the same thing that drew me in. I would say that Joey
about Gojira, their
new album lives
been done before. I is easily one of the top metal drummers
of all time. Joey brought aggression and
and breathes in
a way that hasn’t have no interest in that. forward leaning drumming in a way
that I’ve never heard before. Everything
happened before. that Joey played, he must’ve been
The reason I signed thinking, “How aggressive can I make
bands like Spiritual this?” That seemed to always be going
Cramp, Motionless in White, and Code Orange is I go and see on in his head. But because he was also a songwriter, he wasn’t
them live and I am knocked out by their connection to their stepping all over the music, his drumming was at one with the
audience. music but because Slipknot music is so aggressive. Even on the
MD: What appealed to you about Code Orange? songs that were not aggressive, he found a way to bring that
DR: When I signed them the first time, the singer of the band, aggressiveness. Tragically, Joey became ill, and was no longer
Jami Morgan, was the drummer. I immediately keyed in on the able to play in the band. When Jay Weinberg took the throne,
fact that he could sing and play drums in the way that he did. the transition from Joey to Jay was a big deal because Jay had
I had never really seen a hardcore metal band with that kind to (essentially) figure out how to mimic one of the greatest
of drummer-vocalist. He’s very exact in his playing, his starts metal drummers of all time and bring his own flavor to the band.
and stops in his fills are very pronounced. At the same time That doesn’t happen overnight. It takes a special person who
his rhythmic breakdowns just made the room go bonkers. His has respect, talent, and the chops to pull it off. Jay has done a
meter was flawless, but he could also bend and move the time. magnificent job doing that. While we all certainly miss Joey, Jay
That was one of the reasons I signed the band. But as the band was the only person on the planet to take that throne. He’s the
started to grow, they realized they needed him out front singing most qualified drummer to do it in my opinion. When it came
because they were gonna be limited with the drummer as the to making the first album with Jay, I was listening to the drums
singer, and no front person. Suddenly we had a vacancy on the closely. I kept asking myself is Jay doing Joey here? That was a
drums. Code Orange is so unique that we needed to try a find big question in everybody’s mind. As it turns out, Jay was (and
the “right” drummer, which I knew would be tough. In walked is) doing exactly what needs to be done. He brought his own
Max Portnoy, Mike Portnoy’s son. Obviously, this kid was born on background and blended it with the band.
a drum set and he was able to really do anything. But we didn’t When I worked with Korn for a handful of their later albums,
want him to do anything, we wanted him to capture the essence drummer Ray Luzier was in the process of firmly establishing
of Code Orange’s drum style. Eventually he could bring his own himself as their permanent drummer. Ray’s drumming style is
approach into the band, which he has done superbly! On their very different than original drummer David Silveria. I knew Korn
new album, it sounds like Code Orange, but Max has added a still wanted the big modern and big bottom sound that made
whole level of drumming that wasn’t there before. Korn popular, but with Ray instead of David. Ray is obviously
MD: What appealed to you about Turnstile? one of the great drummers out there, but we wanted the record
DR: One of the first Turnstile songs I ever heard was a to be a throwback to the early Korn days, and still have some

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of that funk that Silveria brought, combined with Ray’s brutal and their record The Weird and the Wonderful Marmozets. I
power. David used to use a piccolo snare but that’s not really signed them about 10 or 12 years ago. Their first album was a
Ray’s sound, so instead of trying to mimic that, we doubled watershed moment. Their second album was excellent too. They
down on the on the big bottom sound of Korn. On the records were one of the first UK bands to break away from the dominant
that I worked on, we spent a lot of time focusing on that with sounds of the day. When Marmozets first came out, they flipped
Josh Wilbur (who mixed the record.) Josh mixes big sounding the desks over and turned everything upside down. Their singer,
records. I think the end result is Ray bringing new power to the Becca Macintyre, was an amazing front person, she was a force
band, that power is reflected well in those mixes. to be reckoned with. She had an incredible voice and was an
I also wanted to bring up the drummer for Trivium. I didn’t incredible performer. In 2015 they won the Kerrang! award for
sign Trivium originally, but I became their A&R person when Best Album. Unfortunately, we just couldn’t get them going.
Monte Conner left the label. I worked with (drummer) Alex Bent, In A&R timing is everything, you need to understand society,
who wasn’t their original drummer, but Alex’s playing is super and what is going on in the world to know when the time is
aggressive. Everything he does is mind blowing, but he manages right for a band. Unfortunately, Marmozets were just too ahead
to do it in a different way. When Alex joined, Trivium was writing of their time. When I look back to my band Heavens Edge, we
the hookiest music they’ve ever written. Alex proved that you were just too late to the party. Metaphorically, the keg was
can be a super aggressive and busy drummer without being empty and there was no more beer, all the girls had left, and it
the dominant force in the music. Trivium’s most recent albums was just us in the room saying, “Where did everyone go?”
have been some of their most successful records, and they have But I’m the luckiest person in the world because I get to do
reshaped the next decade of their career, and I think Alex had a this for a living, and I’m having a great run. I came out from
lot to do with that. behind the drums almost 25 years ago and I’ve been behind the
MD: In talking about Daniel and Jay, you are talking about desk or the console for a long time. Through all the streaming
two guys who brought a completely different sense of groove services, kids are now able to listen to the entire history of
to those styles of music. Daniel has brought his D.C. Go-Go recorded music, and they are more open-minded than they were
approach to the hardcore of Turnstile, and Jay has brought a when we were young. The TikTok discovery platform is really
hardcore punk energy to Slipknot. How important
do you think it is to bring something “new” to the
musical table?
DR: You HAVE to do that! It’s really all I ever want
In A&R timing is everything,
to do. I never want the bands that I sign to sit still
and just regurgitate things that have already been you need to understand
done before. I have no interest in that. I would like to
think that my track record as an A&R person, and the
records that I’ve made have been successful because
society, and what is going
we took a chance and really tried to do something
different, that’s what it’s all about. on in the world to know
The singer from Turnstile, Brandon, is a drummer
too, so Turnstile’s songwriting is very rhythmic. When
we were making the last Turnstile album Glow On,
when the time is right for
Brandon told me that he wanted to make a record
that makes people move. He couldn’t ask for a better a band.
drummer to do that with than Daniel Fang. Daniel
also plays piano and is a very musical person. Fang’s
drumming is the driving force in getting people to
move, but he’s gotten the audience to move in ways
that they probably never expected. I saw them with Blink 182 changing things for music as well. That is why you have to do
play stadiums, and as an A&R person I look around to see what’s something different today. If your music sounds like everything
going on in the back of the stadium as well as in the pit. When else, it’s just going to get passed over. Music today needs to
you watch Turnstile and you hear Daniel playing, you can’t help be great; it needs to be different, and it needs to grab people’s
but see what he’s done. He’s brought some electronic sounds attention.
into his playing, but in a way that is musical and rhythmic. He’s To me, heavy metal bands are the most “international” of all
taken hardcore rhythms and brought them to the masses while musical genres. If you live in the USA and you listen to metal,
bringing other rhythms (like Go-Go) and injected them into you are listening to the same bands as metal fans are in the UK,
hardcore in a way that (years ago) would be unthinkable. And South America, Africa, Japan, Russia, Australia, Canada, Mexico…
like you said, Jay did the same thing in Slipknot. This is unique to metal more than almost any other genre. I think
But there have been plenty of records and bands that have heavy metal music really brings the world together, it makes the
done that and NOT been successful. It’s a fine line. Like I said, in world smaller. Rock and heavy metal music allows us to speak to
A&R there is a lot of failures, and there’s always a risk in trying to each other in ways that we haven’t done in the past. That’s very
break new ground. Risks have to be taken. If not, what are we important. And what drives that music? Well, when you get right
doing? down to it…. it’s the drums that make the people move.
MD: Tell me about the “best” or “most groundbreaking” band
Check out Dave’s drummer profile page, at
that you have signed that just didn’t break out? moderndrummer.com
DR: The most prominent one for me, is the band Marmozets

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COLLECTOR’S CORNER
1928 Ludwig Rialto and 1933 Ludwig Pioneer Trap Kits

By Tim Northup
T he drum set has come a long way from

the simple trap kits of the 1920s and 30s.
Ironically, many drummers today are returning
The Northup Drums Museum has two
Ludwig trap kits that are classic examples
of these type of drum kits. Just like we do
to these very simple sets for busking (type) gigs, today, when you ordered these kits you could
favoring the convenience and ease of packing customize the sizes, decide on which accessories
and transport. What are those old sayings? you wanted, and choose which painted
“There is nothing new under the sun,” and, head you wanted (for an additional $12.00.)
“Everything old is new again.” These original Both of these drum kits were the work horse
trap kits still sound great and are a lot of fun to professional models of the 1920s and 30s used
play. They have classic character and timeless for playing early jazz, vaudeville, theatre work,
beauty. Not to mention the fact that the painted and orchestral music of the day.
bass drum heads really light up a room and The Ludwig Rialto set is pictured in the
create an instant presence, another tradition 1928 catalog. Ours features a 26” black lacquer
that lives today. bass drum with the very rare Niagara Falls

factory painted head. The snare drum is a 4”x14” the original calf head. The Pioneer accessories
Ludwig Black Beauty in the scroll pattern. include a standard bass drum pedal with striker,
The accessories on the bass drum include a bass drum muffler, two tone round woodblock,
professional bass drum pedal with a mounted Chinese tom with holder, Chinese cymbal with
cymbal and striker, two tone round woodblock, holder, “sock” (lowboy) cymbals and everything
Chinese cymbal with holder, Chinese 10” tom is finished with nickel hardware.
with holder, bass drum muffler, and “sock” I personally love the Niagara Falls kit
(lowboy) cymbals all finished in Ludwig Gold because of its condition, its rarity, and the fact
trim. The tambourine and castanets were also that the Northup Drums Museum is in Oneonta,
included. NY; about 260 miles from Niagara Falls. If you
The second set is a Ludwig Pioneer set that is would like to experience and play these kits for
seen in their 1933 catalog. This set was ordered yourself, plan your visit today to the Northup
with a 28” bass drum and the Cabin Scene Drums Museum, tours by appointment.
painted head. The snare drum is an eight lug www.northupdrums.com
Pioneer nickel over brass 5”x14” complete with

OUT NOW!
M odern Drummer is spotlighting new recordings that have the drums at the
center of their sound. These recordings might be drummer-led, or just
include a high-quality, special, or unique drumming and musical performance
from the drummer and/or musicians in the band. This column is not be restricted
to only recordings, we will also be spotlighting new books and DVD’s that are
being released. We encourage our readers to listen to the recordings that inspire
them and keep looking for new musical avenues to explore. You’ll never know
what new music you might find inspiring! Listen and learn.
John Scofield chops, just an amazing and overwhelming (in the best way)
Uncle John’s Band solo. Raymond lets the tune “The Lovers” breathe without the
Bill Stewart drums need for a thumbprint. This is a mature band, and this is mature
ECM Records music that has both patience and urgency. I would use the
John Scofield’s musical same words for drummer Tina Raymond, musicality, patience,
relationship with drummer and urgency. I will listen to this record much more!
Bill Stewart is one of the most
special musical relationships The Koppel Colley Blade Collective
in modern music, and Perspective
Uncle John’s Band shows it Brian Blade drums
(yet again.) Finally, most of Cowbell Music
Scofield’s many musical directions are captured in one band, Perspective, the new recording
and this band can go anywhere, and they do. They play and from the established trio
paint freely on some classic rock tunes like Bob Dylan’s “Mr. of saxophonist Benjamin
Tambourine Man,” Neil Young’s “Old Man,” and the Grateful Koppel, bassist Scott Colley,
Dead’s “Uncle John’s Band.” They wax poetic on a few choice and drummer Brian Blade
standards like “Stairway to the Stars” and “Somewhere;” and comes right at you from
they swing (hard) on “How Deep” “Ray’s Idea,” and “Budo.” Bill note one! Colley and Blade
Stewart’s classic groove is featured on “TV Band” and “Mask.” have a real sympatico, and
And doing the (seemingly) impossible, bassist Vincente Archer alto saxophonist Benjamin
holds everything together perfectly. This is a GREAT trio, and Koppel is riding their rhythmic wave, (and contributing some
thankfully this release is a two CD set chock full of wonderful waves of his own!) The saxophone trio has always had a sense
music. There is something for everyone, and (need I say it?) Bill of adventure built in, and this trio is no different. The time on
Stewart’s marvelous drumming is incredible. Perspective is elastic, and the dialog is exciting. “Alphabet Thief”
and “Speed Cubing Rubiks” are powerful, providing twists and
turns so you never end where you thought you would. The
Tina Raymond cohesiveness heard on “Coconino Country” shows a band that
Divinations is having fun. The sensitivity of “For Sy Johnson” is nice, and the
Tina Raymond drums energy of “After Time,” is sublime. It’s all here.
Imani Records
From the start of Tina Vince Guaraldi Quintet
Raymond’s Divinations, you A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving
get the feel that you have Mike Clark drums
walked into a jazz club to hear LMFP Records
a band in mid-flight, and the OK drummers, stick with me
band and the tune (called here. Firstly, this is NOT the
“Swainson’s Hawk”) is burning! 1965 Christmas recording with
Guitarist Andrew Renfroe has a little more twang than other legendary drummer Colin Bailey
jazz guitarists, which seems to enable the drummer to shift into that we all know and love. A little
higher gears which she does well. Renfroe also has a unique background first. In 1974 and
guitar voice, never leaning too much in the past or the future, 75 Herbie Hancock recorded two legendary recordings Thrust
sitting right in the middle stylistically and tone wise. Raymond and Flood. Both featured the legendary funky drumming of
and Bassist Karl McComas-Reichl create a huge rhythmic Mike Clark. Since then, Mike has gone on to be one of the most
foundation for Renfroe to sit, and the bass and drums hook up important progenitors of funk.
very well. Tina Raymond has a nice drum and cymbal sound, But what if you could go back to 1973 and find some more
and like Renfroe, her sound doesn’t lean too far to the past or of Clark’s original improvisational and organic jazz-funk? Well,
the future. “The Emperor” and “Seven of Wands” both sound like here you go, your dreams have been answered. Don’t let the
Tony Williams Emergency-era music, and it works magnificently. little black and white dog and the yellow bird fool you. These
As a drummer, Tina Raymond knows how to play phrases, build grooves are as slippery as that well basted Thanksgiving turkey.
ideas, leave space, and fill space. For clear evidence of this Check out “Little Birdie” “Clark and Guaraldi,” ”Thanksgiving
listen to her solo on “The Emperor,” no rhythmic tricks, no super Interlude,” the two versions of “Is It James or Charlie?” and the

funkier versions of the popular “Linus and Lucy.” But it isn’t all Hilario Duran and his Latin Jazz Big Band
funk, there is some swinging brushwork on “Charlie Brown Blues” Cry Me a River
and “Thanksgiving Theme (2nd Reprise)” and Mike breaking up Horacio “El Negro’ Hernandez drums
the time on the five alternate takes of “Thanksgiving Interlude.” Alma Records
It’s never out of season to be thankful, now we have some funky It’s been too long since we have
themes for our thanks. heard a new recording featuring
Horacio Hernandez. On behalf
Hays Street Hart of drummers everywhere, thank
Bridges you to pianist and arranger
Billy Hart drums Hilario Duran for making the
Smoke Sessions Records call to “El Negro”! This recording
Music should build bridges is a rhythmic and a sonic feast.
between people and Horacio has not recorded in many
generations, and this music big bands, so this is a very special
does. At the center of this occasion, and El Negro makes the
bridge-building is drummer best of the occasion. Listen to his drumming on the song “Cry
and legend Billy Hart, and Me a River” and the on the edge solos on “Wild Blues.” Hilario
there is no better centerpiece Duran is not only a great arranger, but his is a stellar pianist,
for building bridges! Billy Hart however every big band needs a few great soloists, and on four
swings, colors, interjects, listens, paints, grooves, and lays out, tracks the legendary Paquito D’ Rivera provides some beautiful
to perfection. He is a master of listening to each soloist and solos on top of these already thick and dense arrangements.
supporting them in their musical journey on the song they are What else needs to be said? Great arrangements, sensational
playing. Every song, musician, solo, and band is different, and soloists, and a drummer that can direct the traffic and bring a
Billy treats everything as such. On Bridges, Billy and bassist Ben massive sense of rhythmic excitement to the music. The fact that
Street follow and support pianist Kevin Hays on every twist and ALL of the above is captured on a beautiful sounding recording
turn. On their second record as a trio, they play a variety of tunes that makes you feel that you are in the room with the band, is an
including Wayne Shorter’s “Capricorn,” Lennon & McCartney’s additional bonus. “Paca Por Juanito,” “I Remember Mingus” and
“With a Little Help from My Friends,” Bill Frisell’s “Throughout,” “Cry Me a River” with delightful vocals and violin by Elizabeth
Milton Nascimento’s “Bridges,” as well as originals from Hays Rodriguez, are the musical highlights.
and Hart. Because of records like this, I sincerely hope this trio is
around for a long time. Fluid Fills and Musical
Phrasing
Hiromi By Dave DiCenso
SonicWonderland Hudson Music
Gene Coye drums With so many drum books released
Telarc Records every month, it starts to become
Starting with Dave DiCenso, a blur. But every once in a while, a
Martin Valihora, and most world class drummer who is also
recently Simon Phillips, a world class educator releases
Hiromi’s record’s and bands a book that is focused, well
(Sonicbloom, and The Trio conceptualized, well laid out, well
Project) always include explained, and fills an educational
wonderful drummers. Her void in drum education. Dave
brand-new band SonicWonder, is no exception. But how is this DiCenso has done just that with his
band different from her other bands? Perhaps the inclusion book Fluid Fills and Musical Phrasing. This is not a book about
of trumpeter Adam O’Farrill, who plays his trumpet through “cool” linear grooves or better technique. In this book, Dave
pedals, might give you a hint of a new direction. Bassist Hadrien has attacked the idea of playing fills and creating new fills.
Feraud has a strong fretless sound, and chops to spare. And the Dave has based his process of learning and creating new fill
sounds that Hiromi gets out of her plethora of keyboards are vocabulary into a logical progression of musical and drumming
(as always) very unique. Then there is drummer Gene Coye. He components that works. In this book, Dave addresses all it:
approaches this dense music in a fresh way; he leaves space and Time, Rhythm, Stickings, Phrasing, Orchestration, and Dynamics.
lets Hiromi’s music come to him. Gene Coye has been working Furthermore, he does this based on popular modern musical
on the Los Angeles music scene for some time, and in Hiromi’s styles, not random “concepts.” For anyone looking to increase
SonicWonder, he brings a strong sense of space and groove their fill vocabulary, or the ways that they create fills, this book is
to the proceedings. There are some wonderful sonics and nice a great place to start and stay, for a very long time.
compositions on Hiromi’s Sonicwonderland. Gene Coye lets them
all blossom around him with a strong sense of musicality. Coye
shines on the up-tempo “Up,” and the shifting “Trial and Error.”
The final song “Bonus Stage” is just unadulterated fun.
November 2023 Modern Drummer 77

EYE CANDY
NIck Mason’s Solo Tour Set
Drums: Drum Workshop. Custom Cymbals: Paiste. Prototype 8” Micro Sticks: Pro-Mark. Nick Mason Signature.
Painted by Katy Hepburn (Recreation of Hats, 14” Signature Dark Crisp Hats,
1973 Ludwig Kit influenced by Katsu- Signature 18” and 20” Fast Crashes, Heads: Remo. Power Stroke 3 Bass,
shika Hokusa) Bass Drums: 20” and 22 Signature 22” Full Ride, Signature 18” Coated Ambassador snare and toms.
“. Toms: 10”, 12”, 13”, 14”, 16” , 18”. Snare: Mega Bell, PST-X, 2002 24” China, 40” Accessories: LP. Cowbell
DW Edge 14” Symphonic Gong

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On Review: DW Purple heart Drums and Cymbal Swap

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