Modern Drummer Magazine - August 2022

CARMINE APPICE: 50 YEARS OF BEING REALISTIC
THE WORLD’S #1 DRUM RESOURCE
ASH SOAN
IT’S ALL MUSIC
DARU JONES
THE DARU SESSIONS PART 1
THE NORTHUP
DRUM MUSEUM
COME IN AND PLAY!
THE DRUMSETS OF
LARS ULRICH AND STAN LYNCH
LEARN FROM:
JOE FRANCO • PETER ERSKINE
AUGUST 2022
BOB MOSES • BILLY ASHBAUGH

TONY VERDEROSA • JAMES PETERCSAK
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June 2021 Modern Drummer 1
CONTENTS
20 ASH SOAN
“It’s All Music.” Ash and Mark Griffith discuss his
long recording career, his new tour with Tori
Amos, the characteristics of British drumming,
influences, producers, and (of course) his
massive arsenal of new and vintage drums.
32 TIM NORTHUP drumset, and how important Carmine write the book? Why is drum set-up that he is using on
AND THE NORTHUP it is for people to PLAY these it called Realistic Rock? What is tour with Jack White.
DRUM MUSEUM instruments. the difference between Realistic
“Come in and PLAY!” On a Rock and The Ultimate Realistic 50 CHRIS LESSO
recent trip to Oneonta NY, 42 CARMINE APPICE Rock? Read on and Rock on! Drummer, author, educator,
author Mark Griffith stopped “50 Years of Being Realistic.” Chris Lesso talks about hs new
into The Northup Drum Carmine reflects about the 46 DARU JONES book Life Through Rhythm, the
Museum, and he didn’t want 50th Anniversary of his “The Daru Sessions.” Daru development of his career, his
to leave! Mark and Tim talk groundbreaking book Realistic Jones talks to Modern Drummer band Modus Factor, and his
about Tim’s vintage drums, the Rock, and the new version of The about the evolution and the studies with Jim Blackley and
museum, the evolution of the Ultimate Realistic Rock. Why did inspiration behind the unique Dom Famularo.
Volume 46 • Number 8
Cover and contents photos LESSONS
by David Phillips
54 BASICS
Billy Ashbaugh discusses more “Game Changers” for drummers
young and old.
56 CREATIVE PERCUSSION CONTROLLERS

In our continuing series about Hybrid Electronic Drumming,
Tony Verderosa introduces us to the ins and outs of Sound
Design.
60 JAZZ DRUMMERS WORKSHOP

This month we continue our excerpts from Bob Moses’ book
Drum Wisdom. This month Bob teaches us more about the
Resolution Points.
66 ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC

Joe Franco shares another section from his book Double Bass
Drumming. This month he delves into his Single Stroke System,
and how it relates to playing Eighth Note Triplet Patterns with
Double Bass Drums.
70 ROCK PERSPECTIVES
In another installment from The Ultimate Realistic Rock,
Carmine Appice shows us how to play in 7/8.
EQUIPMENT
14 NEW AND NOTABLE
New quiet heads and cymbals from
Evans, a new snare drum and new
colors from Gretsch, and Dunnett
drums is manufacturing Milestone
drums.
16 PRODUCT CLOSE UP
Reviews of products by OffSet bass
drum pedals, and Meinl cymbals.
DEPARTMENTS
4 EDITORS OVERVIEW 74 NEXT GEN
Raghav Mehrotra talks with the up-and-
6 KIT OF THE MONTH coming hybrid drumming virtuoso, Dan
DW Satin Emerald Green kit. Mayo.
8 JAZZ INSIGHTS 78 COLLECTORS CORNER

Peter Erskine discusses the problems Donn Bennett brings us Stan Lynch’s silver
of calling another drummer sparkle Tama drumset that is a tribute to
“The Next So-and-So.” Mitch Mitchell.
10 HEALTH, WELLNESS, 80 EYE CANDY

AND DRUMMING Modern Drummer shares up-close pictures of
James Peterscak is teaching us about Metallica’s Lars Ulrich’s 1992 kit.
Cardiovascular fitness for strength and
longevity.
AN EDITOR’S OVERVIEW
Past, Present, and Future Founder Ronald Spagnardi 1943–2003

Co-Founder Isabel Spagnardi
M usic, drumming, and art (in general)

is about past, present, and future.
It’s a fine line to walk. If you are too
Publisher/CEO David Frangioni
CFO Carolina Frangioni
much in the past, you are an out of President David Hakim
touch dinosaur. If you are too much in Vice-President Ronnie Jimenez
the future, you are too radical, and no
CTO Jason Mehler
one is prepared for your revolutionary
Senior Art Director Scott Bienstock
contributions and opinions. And the
present is a fleeting moment that is gone Content Director Mark Griffith
as soon as you define or analyze it. Editorial Michael Finkelstein
Thankfully with Modern Drummer Editorial Daniel “Ziggy” Laverde
digital issues we can be much more in the Digital Marketing Manager Ricardo Rodriguez
present than ever before. As I write this,
Worldwide Education Dom Famularo
I am also writing an interview that will
appear in Modern Drummer in two weeks. Live Fom My Drum Room Podcast John DeChristopher
With print that could never happen! But Archivist Felipe Laverde
we aren’t forgetting about the past or the future either.
We are always trying to walk the line between appreciating THE MD PRO PANEL/ADVISORY BOARD: Chris Adler, Carmine Appice,
Kenny Aronoff, Bill Bachman, Eddie Bayers, Gregg Bissonette, Jason Bittner,
the longevity of the drummers who have created and developed
Bill Bruford, Will Calhoun,Terri Lyne Carrington, Matt Chamberlain,
this artform of drumming and the drummers of the future. Those Peter Erskine, Dom Famularo, Daniel Glass, Alex González, Danny Gottlieb,
are the ones who are bending genres, creating hybrid musical Benny Greb, Matt Halpern, Horacio Hernandez, Gerald Heyward, Taku Hirano,
approaches and musical instruments, and inventing new sounds. Jonathan Joseph, Jim Keltner, Paul Leim, Peter Magadini, Pat Mastelotto,
It is usually relatively easy to tell who the drummers of the present Rod Morgenstein, Andy Newmark, Carl Palmer, Stephen Perkins, Dafnis Prieto,
are. However, will their present careers take us into the future, do Rich Redmond, Brian Reitzell, Jim Riley, Bobby Rondinelli, Antonio Sánchez,
they have roots in the past, or are they merely white-hot burning Cindy Blackman Santana, Chad Smith, Steve Smith, Todd Sucherman,
Billy Ward, Kenny Washington, Dave Weckl, Paul Wertico, Dennis Wolfe
flames for a fleeting moment. It’s tough to tell, but we try.
What is sometimes forgotten is that just because you haven’t CONTRIBUTING WRITERS:
heard a specific drummer on a favorite new recording or seen him Billy Ashbaugh, Donn Bennett, Clayton Cameron, Bob Campbell,
Peter Erskine, Dom Famularo, Bob Girouard, Mike Haid, Brian Hill,
give a clinic or a big concert, doesn’t mean that he (or she) is no Daru Jones, Nic Kubes, Chris Lesso, Daniel Laverde, Peter Magadini,
longer “relevant” to the present-day drumming and music world. Raghav Mehrotra, James Petercsak, Tony Verderosa
Likewise, if someone is doing something drastic and different, that
doesn’t necessarily make them a visionary drummer of the future. MODERN DRUMMER magazine (ISSN 0194-4533) is published monthly by MODERN
The truth is that the tree of great drumming, music, and art lives DRUMMER Publications, Inc., 1279 W. Palmetto Park Rd PO Box 276064 Boca Raton,
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4 Modern Drummer August 2022

Presents:
Gary Chester’s New Breed
Buy from your favorite retailer

check out more at moderndrummer.com
KIT OF THE MONTH
1997 Satin Emerald Green DW Kit
M ick McDermott plays classic country as well as classic

rock, Western swing, and some Les Paul and Mary Ford
for good measure on his 1997 DW kit refinished in satin
emerald green by Spinelli Drums in St. Petersburg, FL.
The sizes of the drums are 10, 12, 14, 16, and 22. He also
uses a 6.5x14 Rogers dynasonic reissue in emerald green.
All of the drums are mounted on a Pearl icon rack with
Gibraltar cymbal arms, his pedals are a DW 5000 single
and a 5000 hi hat. Mick’s Cymbals are all Zildjian A’s except
where noted: 22" heavy ride, 18" med thin crash, 16" med
thin crash (x2,) 16" A custom crash, 12" splash, 6" splash,
and 14" New beat hi hats. he adds some percussion by LP
including an LP cowbell and a LP hi hat jingle. His heads are
Remo/DW stock heads on all of the toms, Remo pinstripe
on batter of kick and a custom made head on resonant.
The snare batter is an Evans ec2 coated. He uses Regaltip
brushes and sticks. a Roc n Soc throne, and he sings
through a Shure beta 57.

JAZZ INSIGHTS
The Next So-and-So!
By Peter Erskine
I ’m tempted to begin each

of my new Modern Drummer
columns by writing “With
everything else that’s going
on in the world…” because
the unrelenting news cycles
force me to question the
relative importance of
an artistic particular or a
paradiddle. But since this
is Modern Drummer and
not Modern Politics (or
Modern Ecology or Modern
Psychology), I’m going to
indulge in a rumination that
I hope will prove insightful if
not inciteful.
I came across a thread on
the internet that proclaimed
a relatively young drummer
as being “The next Buddy
Rich!” This of course invited
commentary from persons
with opinions that went
all over the map, which in
turn generated responses
until the discussion turned
acrimonious in fairly short
order. I’ll admit, it got me to
thinking.
The Peter Erskine Library
Since I just turned the

ripe old age of 68, let me
get one thing out of the
way: young drummers
today can outplay — and
display drumming abilities
far beyond what I thought
possible – the drumming
standards of yore. So, I harbor
no grudges or suffer from worshipped the drumming of Art Blakey and Max Roach and Don
illusory selective memory about my own drumming skills or those Lamond and Louis Hayes and Shelly Manne and Mel Lewis and
of my age peers. Indeed, much of what I see tells me that we have Grady Tate and Elvin Jones and Tony Williams, and... you get the idea.
done something right in terms of educating, even though much of And Buddy Rich, too. I’m sure that most of you share the following
what I see exceeds what I know to be taught in many schools. All to sentiment: I would never presume to be the NEXT one of any of
say, there’s much good that’s coming out of the ether known as the them! And I would resist anyone attempting to label me as such.
internet. First, it’s presumptuous as hell and, second, it denies me the chance
Having said that, I lament that younger players do not have the to be the next ME.
playing opportunities of old. Heck, I lament that “my” generation Setting any artist up as “the next” naturally invites comparison.
did not quite enjoy the playing opportunities of my heroes I don’t know about you, but I have enough things to contend with
(even though we came close in terms of touring and nightly in my day-to-day life without worrying about defending myself as
performances). Think about the heyday of touring jazz musicians: being the “next” so-and-so. People love to ascribe labels to others,
2 to 3 (even 4!) sets each night, 50 weeks a year, often playing but for my money: no thanks. This is all said to recognize that, for
opposite another great band. That level of competitive playing the hapless drummer who is being heralded as the “next so-and-
occasions combined with exposure to legendary drumming figures so,” well … it’s usually not their fault (if anyone has enough hubris
in-person, PLUS the chance for one of them to either praise or or poor judgement to declare themselves the “next Buddy Rich” or
criticize you … now THAT’S school! Tony Williams or Elvin Jones, then they deserve whatever criticisms
We all have musical idols and heroes. In my own case, I come their way, in my opinion).

That aside, such glib
Peter and one of his musical
comparisons miss the very obvious idols; Elvin Jones.
elephant in the room: drummers
of old played in bands, and often
for bandleaders or bandmates
who were VERY discerning and
demanding in their expectations of
knowledge, ability, and excellence
from the drummer. I’ve recounted
pianist Nat Pierce saying to me
when I was 18-years-old, “You’re
a nice kid. You can’t swing for
shit, but you’re a nice kid.” Or Mel
Lewis excoriating me in Downbeat
magazine for not having bottom
or resonant heads on my toms
and bass drum (I found out later
The Peter Erskine Library

that Lennie DiMuzio and Armand
Zildjian both told Mel to “take it
easy on Peter, he’s just a kid,” but you
know what? Mel Lewis was right,
and I learned from his criticism).
In addition to my treating elders
with incredible respect (verbally
and with body language) — and
I’m talking about just about
the bandstand.
ANY drummer who had played longer than I had — I was always
Music is many things to many people. Me? I love to play because
prepared for the possibility that this musician knew more about the
it is fun. And I take it as serious as a heart attack. I can admit to
music than I did at that stage of my life. We all have varying levels
varying measures of envy, admiration as well as sorrow for the
of confidence and humility. My innate (or engendered) sense of
drummers today who are compelled to make their mark or prove
humility allowed me to learn an incredible amount of data as well
their mettle by virtue of YouTube clicks (“be sure to Follow Me and
as praise. And we all respond well to praise! (Exploring this a bit
to click on the Like button”) … Good for you if you can live by this
more: when we treat older persons with respect, we are treating
particular sword.
the older version of ourselves with respect. Likewise, when we
And now I turn to General George Patton (legendary US soldier
treat younger persons with respect, we are treating the younger
who fought and died in the Second World War) who wrote, “For
person inside each of us with respect. Wait, maybe this “is” Modern
over a thousand years Roman conquerors returning from the
Psychology.)
wars enjoyed the honor of triumph, a tumultuous parade. In the
I wish that ALL OF US could play more in-person and with
procession came trumpeters, musicians and strange animals from
others. The pandemic took a bad situation of changing musical
conquered territories, together with carts laden with treasure and
demographics and made it challenging beyond recongnition. So,
captured armaments. The conquerors rode in a triumphal chariot,
with that, the Jazz Insights column would like to congratulate all
the dazed prisoners walking in chains before him. Sometimes his
of us for having done the best we could these past couple of years.
children robed in white stood with him in the chariot or rode the
And I salute everyone who is a creator, whether behind the drums
trace horses. A slave stood behind the conqueror holding a golden
or behind the scenes creating live playing opportunities.
crown and whispering in his ear a warning: that all glory is fleeting
Having said THAT, the Jazz Insights column acknowledges that
(sic transit gloria).”
the one-way street of play-alongs is NOT the same as playing
My advice? Don’t play for likes. Play for the music. And don’t try to
with other human beings. Other musicians who are counting and
be the next somebody else. Be the next and best version of yourself!
struggling with their own set of challenges and who are depending
on the drummer to provide good time (clarity of the beat and its
subdivisions, plus steadiness of tempo), stylistic “correctness,” proper
set-ups as well as playing of ensemble figures (rhythms), dynamics,
Check out Peter’s drummer
plus those hard-to-quantify elements of musicality and excitement profile page, and get a copy
(or steadiness, or groove). Add to all of the above: that which is said of his Legends book at
or left unsaid OFF the bandstand. And showing up on-time for the modern drummer.com
lobby leave or soundcheck, and so on. Not to mention having to
deal with confusing or conflicting musical signals from others on
August 2022 Modern Drummer 9

HEALTH, WELLNESS, AND DRUMMING
Cardiovascular Fitness for Strength and Longevity

By James Petercsak
I n my series of articles, under the

“Health, Wellness, and Drumming”
section of Modern Drummer, we have
explored the many of the benefits
of weight training and maintaining
healthy musculature. This is done to
keep our joints pain free so it won’t
hinder drumming. We’ve identified
the essential factors for pain free
progression in the gym, like proper
volume; picking the right exercises;
technique; and the mental aspect
of training. We’ve also described the
importance of strength, and how your
collective muscle tissue functions as
an endocrine organ. In this article,
we’ll dive into to the details of
cardiovascular training, and how it fits
into a health and wellness program.
Muscle mass is of little importance
if you don’t have the cardiorespiratory
fitness to power it. People tend to pick
between the two broad categories
of exercise – Strength training, or
Cardio. But the term is strength AND
conditioning for a reason, and while
you might prefer one over the other, simultaneously; they are two conflicting goals. If your main goal
you should be doing both. Don’t assume that the two categories right now is to pack on as much muscle as humanly possible in the
act against each other; in fact HRV (or heart rate variability) is one shortest time frame than I would recommend that you limit the
of the most important indicators of performance and possibly amount of intense cardio. However, the majority of people reading
the most important metric to recover from weight training and to this probably aren’t looking to become a defensive end for an NFL
move your body optimally. Cardiovascular fitness is important not team or a sumo wrestler, so get your cardio in, it’s good for you!
only for keeping your body in shape, or transforming your body, Cardio is a much-debated subject in the fitness industry. Many
but for the avoidance of illness and disease. experts claim that you should never do cardio when trying to build
muscle. Others state that you should do high amounts of cardio at
Why is heart rate variability a good thing? all times no matter what your goals are. Intervals are the favorite
Your body has many systems that let it adapt to where you are and method of some, while others prefer long duration, steady state
what you’re doing. Your heart’s variability reflects how adaptable cardio. No wonder there is so much confusion. In my opinion,
your body can be. If your heart rate is highly variable, this is usually properly planned cardio methods can help you build muscle and
evidence that your body can adapt to many kinds of changes. stay lean at the same time. The addition of cardio to your training
People with high heart rate variability are usually less stressed as program allows you to eat more muscle building calories without
they can adapt better to changes (either physical or emotional). the risk of them turning to body-fat. Not only can proper cardio
In general, low heart rate variability is considered a sign of current methods help you stay lean, but they may also help you build
or future health problems. It’s a metric that shows your body is muscle more effectively by increasing the production of anabolic
less resilient and may struggle to handle changing situations. It’s hormones. It will also aide in your body’s ability to move optimally,
also more common in people who have higher resting heart rates. something as drummers we’re all interested in.
That’s because when your heart is beating faster, there’s less time
between beats, reducing the opportunity for variability. This is Different types of Cardiovascular training
often the case with conditions like diabetes, and heart arrhythmia. First, we have low intensity, long duration cardio. This is a long, up-
Before we get into the specifics of cardio training, we need to tempo walk or a very slow, low effort bike ride. This type of exercise
make one thing clear - Building muscle requires a caloric surplus, has a lower impact on muscle loss and for this reason is a favorite
meaning you need to eat more calories than you burn. Losing method of many heavyweight athletes. It doesn’t burn a ton of
fat requires a caloric deficit, meaning that you need to consume calories, which is why it needs to be done for 45-60 minutes, 6-12
less calories than you burn. While it does get more complicated times per week in order for you to notice any significant results. This
than that, at the end of the day, calories matter. Having said method is the best form of cardio for heavily muscled individuals
that, you cannot build maximum muscle and lose maximum fat who are looking to hold on to as much muscle as possible while

simultaneously getting leaner. It is time consuming and only with this method is that it does not elevate your metabolism
burns significant calories if you have a decent amount of muscle for more than two hours after doing it, whereas weight training
on your frame already. Also, this method is not very effective at elevates your metabolism for two days. Because of this, I
improving your cardiovascular health because it does not elevate recommend that you fit this into your off days of weight training,
your heart rate significantly. 3 times a week. Doing too much of this type of training can
Medium to high intensity, steady state cardio is typically done elevate cortisol levels, which is the hormone that can break-down
a bike, treadmill, stair climber or elliptical machine. The standard muscle tissue.
recommendations are to work at 65-75% of your maximum Even though this method can be very beneficial, we need to
heart rate for 20-40 minutes. The oldest and most basic way to be careful about the duration and frequency. There are some
determine your max heart rate is to subtract your age from 220. negatives associated with long duration, steady state cardio
So, if you are twenty years old your max heart rate would be 200 and present a “U” shaped curve with diminishing results if done
and you would want to stay at around 70% of that which would excessively. Excessive amounts of endurance activity have been
be 140 beats per minute. This isn’t the most scientific formula, but shown to: lower immune system function, increase the production
it is the easiest and works for our purposes. This is more effective of oxidative free radicals, and lead to a degeneration of the joints
at burning calories than low intensity, steady state cardio and (especially the hips, knees and ankles)
doesn’t require as much time. With this method you basically The next form of cardio is high intensity interval training.
work hard for 20-40 minutes straight without ever changing the This method involves performing short bursts of the highest
intensity. When using this method of cardio, you might be able intensity you can muster followed by a down period of lower
to hold a conversation, but it would be annoying, as you’ll be intensity which allows you to recover before repeating the
breathing heavily. This method has been used for years with great sequence. Typical interval recommendations are 30-60 second
success by many people in an effort to lose body-fat. The problem bursts followed by an active rest period of 60-120 seconds. This
A simple bike trainer can be a great investment if

you don't have a stationary bike. Most trainers will
generate enough resistance to elevate your heart
rate for a very effective workout.

is typically done for 15- 30 minutes. One big upside about high delay your recovery. Therefore, for the purposes of maintaining or
intensity interval training is that it elevates your metabolism for losing body-fat while simultaneously increasing muscle mass, the
up to 48 hours after doing it. This effect is not seen with traditional bike is the number one choice for most beginners or those who
methods of cardio. Steady state cardio burns extra calories during have extremely limited recovery ability. There is no sprinting, no
the workout, and for around two hours after completing. The main intervals, no active rest periods; just 15-30 minutes of steady state
benefit of high intensity interval cardio is that your metabolism cardio at a medium intensity and maintain for the duration of the
will be revving like crazy for two days after your workout. So you workout. In other words, it should be hard work, but not so much
are burning extra calories far longer and far more efficiently than that you can’t hold a conversation - It should just feel annoying to
you do when you rely only on steady state cardio. do so. After you complete the first four sessions and feel prepared,
The problems with interval training typically are with the you can try adopting some higher intensity intervals on week 3.
prescription recommendations. Firstly, unless you’re in tremendous To begin, warm up on the bike for 1-2 minutes at a moderate
shape, 30-60 seconds of 100% all-out effort is extremely difficult pace. After you feel warm and limber, dial up the bike resistance
(and potentially dangerous). It can take years of training and to a high level “sprint” as fast as you possibly can for ten seconds
technique training to get to that level. Secondly, the rest period straight. This may not seem like it would be that difficult but when
prescriptions of 45-60 seconds are also far too short for most. you crank the intensity of the bike way up there and give it all you
Think about it; sprinters who are the most ripped athletes on have, ten seconds can seem like an eternity. You should be working
earth next to competitive bodybuilders, typically sprint a short incredibly hard but not to the point where you’re pushing yourself
distance and then rest to the absolute limit.
anywhere from three After your ten second
to five minutes before Once again, the name of the game bout you are going to
repeating the effort. I lower the resistance on
am not suggesting that
you need to rest as long
is progressive overload, and you the machine all the way
down as low as it will go
as this, but I think that
limiting your rest periods
need to constantly strive to beat and coast at a slow to
moderate pace until you
to 45 seconds, especially
as a beginner, is going to
your previous performance feel like you are ready
for another sprint. Don’t
compromise the quality wait so long that your
of your training and heart rate nearly returns
therefore, your results. to normal, or so short that you feel ill. The problem with giving a
My third problem with interval training is that most advocates set rest period is that everyone is completely different and have
of this method tell you to simply lower the intensity during the different levels of cardiovascular fitness. I just want you to work
“rest” period and not actually rest. The fact of the matter is you as hard as you can for 16 minutes and get as many high quality,
should crank the intensity down to next to zero on whatever you high intensity sprints as possible. Some of you may only need
are doing. Too much lactate production, which is signified by 60 seconds between sprints while some of you may need three
the intense burning you get in your legs and glutes, will severely minutes; it doesn’t matter. All that matters is that you work hard
compromise strength gains. Drowning your fast twitch muscle and make progress during each workout.
fibers in a pool of lactate is the best way to turn them into slow The principles of effective cardio training are no different than
twitch fibers. This will make it much harder to get bigger, stronger, the principles of effective weight training. Once again, the name
and faster. So, whenever you are using a bike to do interval training of the game is progressive overload, and you need to constantly
you always need to make sure that you drop the resistance to zero strive to beat your previous performance. This is where your
on the “coasting” portion of the intervals. A better option would be training journal comes in handy. You can record the length of your
to get off the bike and walk on the treadmill or something. high intensity bursts, the length of your active rest periods, the
total distance traveled, and the total amount of calories burned
Which type of cardio training is best for you? during the session.
The answer to this question is easy: It’s the one you’ll stick with and In the next issue, we’ll discuss more advanced forms of cardio
do consistently. For many, walking everyday can be a huge win. and provide options on how to fit that into your strength training
If you’re new to this, you always want to start slow and progress sessions. But the most important point to drive home is that
over time. That is why I always start with walking for people who cardiovascular fitness is a major driver of longevity and wellness. If
have lower cardiovascular fitness and/or have been sedentary and you want to be strong and fit when you’re 80, you can’t afford to be
wanting to make a change. If you’d like to try some of the various of average fitness when you’re 50. You now have a bunch of cardio
cardio options discussed, I recommend doing them in addition to options to choose from, but the most important point is to do the
the strength training programs we discussed in previous issues. Of work. So good luck and train hard!
course, always consult your physician or licensed medical provider
before starting any exercise program. The information provided herein is intended for your general
We can start by doing two medium intensity, steady state knowledge only and is not intended to be, nor is it, medical
cardio workouts for the first two weeks. These should be done on advice, or a substitute for medical advice. Before attempting
a stationary or recumbent bike. The bike is the weapon of choice any exercises mentioned in this article, consult with your
because there is no eccentric component to pedaling on a bike. doctor.
Eccentric training is what makes you sore and might possibly
Check out James’ Modern Drummer profile page at moderndrummer.com

REAL SIZES FOR
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Evans introduces dB One Heads and Cymbals
EVANS Drumheads, the most
technologically advanced
drumheads on earth, is introducing
a revolutionary new suite of
products, dB reduced volume
drumheads and cymbals. The dB
product suite includes dB Zero, a
rebrand of the popular SoundOff
mesh drumheads, and the
introduction of dB One Drumheads
and Cymbals.
Drummers now have two
options. dB Zero reduces the
drumhead’s volume to the lowest
level possible and is ideal for
silent practice and use with drum
triggers and sensors. With dB One,
drummers can maintain their
acoustic kit’s natural tone and feel,
but at only 20% the volume of
traditional acoustic heads. and crack of acoustic snares at a reduced level.
“The dB One heads are an incredible practice tool, *especially* if The new dB One suite is rounded out by dB One Cymbals, the first
you have volume restraints wherever you drum,” says Whitechapel cymbals to sport the EVANS brand and designed to balance and
and Light the Torch drummer Alex Rüdinger. “The first time I really match with the dB One heads as a system. In addition, each cymbal
laid into them was at 2:30 in the morning, with other people asleep features EVANS’ patented dBalanceTM technology, a precision-
in the house, two stories up. No one woke up or even heard a peep!” perforated volume reduction system punched directly into the
Available in patented tom, bass, and snare heads, dB One nano-plated stainless alloy surface in a mesmerizing spiral pattern.
drumheads experience an authentic bounce and attack with This meticulous approach to attenuation achieves a chime and
ShockWeave MeshTM, Kinetic Transfer FoamTM (KTF), and dB One’s resonance as articulate as many full volume sets but at 20% the
innovative Impact Patch striking surface. Additionally, the wire-free volume.
Snare SimTM treatment tackles the once impossible-to-fake-buzz To learn more about dB please visit https://ddar.io/dBOne.PR.
Gretsch Drums Introduces the USA Custom Ridgeland Snare Drum

and New Colors For USA Custom, Broadkaster & Brooklyn
Gretsch Drums proudly introduces the combines the classic Gretsch 30 degree in all Gretsch Nitron, Satin or Gloss Lacquer
USA Custom Ridgeland Snare drum to edge with an old-school Broadkaster-style finishes to perfectly match any drum set.
their celebrated range of snare of drums. roundover; the result is a warm, full-bodied The Ridgeland, born in the South, made
At almost half-inch thick and made from a tone with plenty of attack. These new
fusion of woods, this new drum has
a sound that is warm, powerful and
loud!
For nearly 40 years, Gretsch
Drums have been hand-crafted in
Ridgeland, South Carolina using the
finest materials available. It’s here
that a team of dedicated artisans
consider every detail to ensure that
each drum possesses “That Great
Gretsch Sound.” The USA Custom
Ridgeland Snare Drum has been developed snare drums are equipped with sturdy 4mm to inspire. For a preview of the Ridgeland
in the time-honored tradition of Gretsch die-cast counter hoops, the ever-popular snare drum, watch the video here. For
drums to showcase the dedication and Lightning Throw-Off, 20-strand snare more information about the USA Custom
passion of these artisans. wires and Gretsch Permatone drumheads. Ridgeland Snare Drum, other Gretsch
The 0.4” shell, made of maple, gum and Custom made, the Ridgeland Snare Drums drums and artists, please go to http://www.
poplar, features a hybrid bearing edge that are available in 5x14 and 6.5x14 sizes and gretschdrums.com/

Gretsch is expanding the available colors Brooklyn Kits adds a new
options for the USA Custom, Broadkaster finish with the introduction of
and Brooklyn drum kits ranges in 2022. the soon to be classic, Antique
Turquoise Pearl and Tangerine Metallic Oyster Nitron. This finish is
have been added to the USA Custom and reminiscent of rich silky folds
Broadkaster finish choices, and the Brooklyn of golden butter, that change
kits can now be found in Antique Oyster. with the light to radiate
The new bright, vivid colors offer an warmth and style. The lustrous
arresting choice to drummers who want wrap is refined and subtle,
to add a visual statement to the acoustic perfect for drummers looking
excellence of the USA Custom and to enhance any setting - stage,
Broadkaster kits. The eye-catching Turquoise studio or home - with a kit that
Pearl Nitron finish moves like a restless looks as good as it sounds.
ocean, full of iridescent blues and greens. To find out more about the
In contrast, the strikingly hot Tangerine new colors and all the other
Metallic, in either a satin or gloss finish, is Gretsch Drums please go to
full of energy, vibrant and fiery. gretschdrums.com
Dunnett acquires Intellectual Property Rights to Milestone Percussion

Ronn Dunnett is pleased to announced he has acquired the instructor. He eventually purchased the store, operating it until 1980
intellectual property rights to iconic Canadian drum company when he sold it to Ray Ayotte, giving himself the freedom to design
Milestone Percussion. Milestone Percussion was founded in and develop the Milestone brand and products.
Vancouver in the early 1970’s by Michael Clapham. At the time. The drums Clapham designed were embraced by legendary artists
Milestone quickly became the leader in fibreglass drums which were such as Gary McCracken (Max Webster), Jerry Mercer (April Wine)
reknowned for thier sonic consistency and producers / engineers such as Bob Ezrin
and durability. (Pink Floyd “The Wall”) where the unmistakeable
“Michael created not just a sound of fibreglass wove itself into the fabric of
timeless line of drums, but a brand their music. Michael Clapham passed away in
that deviated from many of the Vancouver on September 14, 2016.
conventional norms of the time. The “Fifty years is a very long time for a brand to
elegant simplicity of the Milestone survive on inertia, and yet today Milestone
logo was matched by the innovative remains a beloved brand and I plan to celebrate
drums he manufactured. The that. I have always loved the brand and as a
Milestone brand is singular in that young drummer coveted the kits I saw my drum
regard.“ said Ronn Dunnett, president heros playing. As it was when I began work on
and CEO of Dunnett Classic Drums Ltd. restoring the George Way drum company and
“Milestone is a true part of Canadian preserving George’s legacy, it is an honour to
history and at 50 years old, a heritage pick up where Michael left off and with the
brand. blessing of the Clapham estate. Production on
Milestone founder Michael Clapham was born in 1938 in London, the new line of Milestone snare drums is well under way with orders
England and immigrated to Canada at the age of 18. His career in the qeue. Those drums will pay appropriate homage to Michael’s
began at Vancouver’s Drum Village where he worked as a salesman work and legacy.
and drum

PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
Offset Eclipse Double Bass Drum Pedal
By Jim Toscano and Nic Kubes
I have played on a double bass kit from a young age. I had two 24"
bass drums with one of those hoop clamps for the hi hat stand so
I could fold the legs and set up the hi hat pedal directly next to the
more casually to embellish and add punctuation to your ideas, you
will love the symmetry and adjustability of the OffSet Eclipse.
The pedal board height, beater distance, spring tension, and
bass drum pedal. This was before two legged and no legged hi hat drive wheel are all completely adjustable. You can dial in a feel that
stands even existed. But I realized moving two bass drums around is perfect for you. At each joint location there is a precision bearing
was not fun or easy and I bought my first double bass pedal in the to give you the most smooth and consistent motion possible. The
90’s. As with most drummers I felt that the double bass pedals were adjustable cam or drive wheel can effectively change diameter
never able to provide the symmetrical feel of playing two bass by sliding it forward or back on the drive shaft, giving you a range
drums. I have been looking for a symmetrical solution for setting up from 1.5" to 3" in diameter. This gives you the choice or blend of
a completely ambidextrous drum set. speed and power. The pedal comes with a double chain drive
With OffSet you are set up with the snare drum centered in and there is also a direct drive conversion kit available. The pedal
front of the bass drum. The typical double bass pedal puts your features 2 adjustable spikes on each of the three sections, plus
body position at an angle, moving you to either the right or left strips of hook and loop on the bottom to make sure none of the
or your drum kit. Thus, rotating you away from the floor tom side. pedal sections move at all. There is a built-in drum key holder on
This makes it harder to reach without rotating your torso. With the each pedal. With so many moving parts it’s great to always have a
OffSet pedal and snare drum centered, your floor tom and ride are drum key handy.
much more ergonomically accessible.
Construction
Overview and Features The pedal features high quality construction. There are precision
The Eclipse OffSet double pedal is a completely symmetrical and bearings at every connection and adjustable cams. The drive shaft
highly adjustable double pedal for both lefty and righty players. of the center housing has a flat area on top to ensure that there is
This pedal is well made and is a total game changer, an innovative no slipping of the drive shafts. The drive rods have universal joints
and high-end pedal without the high-end price. Whether you are a on both ends to ensure that you get the perfect angle for your
hardcore double bass player or someone who uses a double pedal setup. OffSet has parts readily available in the event that you need

something replaced. The brushed aluminum finish is great looking When you reassemble them, you have minimal adjustments to get
and provides great construction with lighter weight. The pedal going.
housings are steel and aluminum and are very durable.
Useful tips
Adjustability Make sure to make the same adjustments at the same time to both
There are many adjustments on the OffSet pedal so that you can sides of the pedal, so that you keep the pedal feeling symmetrical.
dial in the perfect feel for you as an individual player. You have Take your time with the setup and adjustment. With so many
the beater height and beater angle to the bass drum head. The moving parts it will take you some time & experimentation to dial in
center beater housing has a spring located on each side to provide the pedals to your exact specifications.
a smooth motion for each beater and allows for more controlled Make the first adjustments visually. For example, if the pedal
oscillations. Additionally, there is a spring to the inside of each pedal board height looks identical chances are it will feel very much the
board. With a total of four springs, you can make sure that the feel same. After the pedal is set up then check for feel.
is identical from one pedal to the other and provides maximum I will often compare each side with the same foot to ensure that
control and consistency. You have individual adjustments for each the feeling is the same.
pedal board height. Remember that the two center springs adjust Use the attached drum key and hex keys to keep everything tight
beater feel and the springs located on the pedal boards adjust pedal and properly adjusted.
board feel. The adjustable drive wheels give you
further adjustment to fine tune the feel to your
individual needs.
Setup
OffSet Pedals are very simple to put together. The
center beater housing connects to the hoop with
a hoop clamp adjuster to the side of the pedal
board for easy access. Traditionally the hoop
clamp adjustment is located under the pedal
board. You place each beater in the housing to
the desired height, adjust the counterweight on
each beater to make sure the throw feels perfect
for you. Finally, you connect the two drive rods
to the center beater housing section and then to
each pedalboard and you are ready to play. The
two provided beaters have a hard plastic side
and a felt side so you can choose your attack.
Your snare stand sits right in front of the center
housing and doesn’t conflict at all with the beater
movement.
Feel and sound

It is important to note that both pedals feel identical Satisfaction and
which is never the case with traditional double Availability
bass pedals. The slave pedal on traditional double OffSet stands behind their
pedals always feels different to the primary pedal. product and guarantees
The drive rod on traditional double bass pedals is your satisfaction, all
usually very long and creates the perception of drag pedals come with a
on the pedal action. To me, traditional slave pedals 2-year limited warranty.
always feel too light, meaning the beater throw Customer service and
never has the same impact as the main pedal no parts are fast, personal,
matter how many adjustments I try to make, it just and efficient directly from
never feels the same. OffSet solved that problem. their OffSet website. This
The snare drum never gets in the way of the center beater housing. is a small company, and they stand behind their product.
The Footboard is 12.5” long so using heel up or down technique
is possible. Additionally, it is smooth and well made. On regular Conclusion
double pedals one beater always hits off center. With OffSet both OffSet Pedals have completely changed the landscape of the
beaters hit in the center and provide equal punch, attack, and sound double pedal game in every way. You can set up symmetrically,
distribution. ergonomically, and never have to sacrifice comfort for your setup.
Offset has introduced a single pedal that has the same footprint and
Traveling adjustability for your single pedal work as well. Now maybe one day
OffSet has two affordable pedal cases available. A soft case for more they will make a hi hat pedal to go with the other pedals! The offset
casual travel and a hard case for more rigorous travel conditions. drum pedal retails for $489.00 at www.offsetpedal.com.
The pedals come apart easily and quick and are not very heavy.

PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
Meinl’s Pure Alloy Custom 20" & 22" Medium Thin Rides
By Brian Hill
Warm, Somewhat Dark, and Extremely Articulate When I received the box from Meinl, I was initially surprised to
The folks at Meinl sent over one of their Pure Alloy Custom Medium see only one cymbal in the box. Normally, I would expect a mix of
Thin Rides for us to look at, and we’re glad they did. Unlike the different cymbals from a specific line to review. I thought, this must
Byzance line which is hand hammered in Turkey with a B20 Bell be some “plate!” Well, it turns out that this really is, “some plate!”
Bronze alloy, the Pure Alloy Custom series is made in Germany There’s’ a whole lot going on here, so let’s get started.
utilizing what Meinl calls “Pure Alloy.” The result is a very musical and
professional grade instrument. Specs
Meinl’s Pure Alloy Custom line has been turning heads since its
introduction as a high-end professional cymbal. The Pure Alloy
Customs have a clean and very musical quality that
compliments all styles of music. However, according
to Meinl, many requests were coming in
requesting thinner versions within the line.
The result is the medium-thin models
represented here in the Custom
20” Pure Alloy Ride that we are
reviewing.
The first thing that I
noticed was its striking

appearance. The body of the cymbal is precision hammered in note width from thin to wide. I checked this characteristic with
and lathed, while the bell is what I like to call “virgin.” It has no several rides that I had in my studio and thought the Meinl Pure
hammering or lathing, just a smooth, raw-looking bell that really Alloy Custom ride was actually superior in this respect. This is a well
stands out. Meinl finished the top playing surface with a beautiful engineered piece of metal! Because of the medium thin make-up
finish called “Custom Smoked-Bronze.” This finish gives hint to the of the cymbal, it also provided a great crash without being too
over-all character of warmth and darkness inherent to the line. The overbearing.
underside of the cymbal is polished to a brilliant finish.
Conclusion
Sound As with all aspects, I found this to be a very high-end offering to
Meinl describes these rides as “Complex, Full-bodied, Sensitive, the over-all cymbal market. This is certainly a professional grade
Smooth, Warm, and Musical.” I fully agree. With a medium to instrument worthy of real consideration. It seems that the Pure Alloy
low pitch and volume range, I find these rides to be extremely collection was created not only to be a superior cymbal line, but
responsive and controllable. The stick response was exceptional also to compete with established high-end offerings from the other
and the stick “ping” had a great clarity. The cymbal’s attack was major cymbal companies. The Pure Alloy Custom cymbal line (along
warm and soft, and it’s decay was fast. This is a cymbal that won’t with the Byzance line,) have solidly placed Meinl as one of the “Big
get lost in the mix at any volume. The wash of the cymbal brought a Four” cymbal manufactures along with Paiste, Zildjian, and Sabian.
nice musicality to the mix without being overpowering. The mid to The Pure Alloy Custom Ride is a great general “go-to” cymbal
dark timbre works well with it’s mid to long sustain characteristics. that complimented everything I did with it. I like the dark and
The bell was certainly clear and present, while the smooth raw earthy qualities that are inherent to the cymbal’s musicality while
appearance made it a great target that seemed hard to miss while playing different styles of music. After playing this cymbal for
playing. a couple weeks, I couldn’t imagine not wanting it in my set-
Another thing that I noticed was the consistency and high up. I liked it so much that I actually bought it! Check out these
quality of the cymbal. While tapping from the base of the bell to beautiful and musical plates and all that Meinl has to offer at
the edge, I found an even consistency of pitch from high to low, and meinlpercussion.com.

Ash Soan:
It’s All Music!
By Mark Griffith
David Philips

H e’s played on the Olympics with
Mike Oldfield, the British version
of The Voice for seven years, toured
with Del Amitri, Squeeze, Faithless, The
Waterboys and Mike Scott, Will Young,
James Morrison, Marianne Faithfull,
Sinead O’ Connor, recorded with
everyone from Rod Stewart and Billy
Idol to Adele and Cher, as well as Seal,
Celine Dion, James Morrison, Dua Lipa,
Sam Smith, Robbie Williams, Elton John
(The Lion King) and Alicia Keys. Also live
shows with Bryan Adams, Van Morrison,
Belinda Carlisle, Terry Reid, Jeff Lorber
& Jimmy Haslip, Trevor Horn, Seal and
Lol Creme of 10cc. He is at the top of the
list for producers like Trevor Horn, Mark
Taylor, Jimmy Napes, Steve Lipson and
Fraser T. Smith, and he does soundtrack
work with Hans Zimmer and Lorne Balfe.
Now he is touring with Tori Amos, and
Joss Stone, and he just recorded with
Bob Marley (yes you read that right!)
However, unless you are one of his
millions of followers on social media,
you might not even know his name. His
humility is as big as the Atlantic, and
his pocket is just as deep. He considers
himself to be a 30-year overnight
success, and he is sincerely excited that
drummers “on this side of the pond” are
learning his name. His name is Ash Soan.

MD: For a drummer as prolific as you
are, it’s amazing there isn’t a whole lot of
information on you out there yet. Your
career has really begun to take of in the last
10 years, but you have been building your
career for a long time. May I ask, how old
are you?
AS: I’m 53 in December, and yes, my career
has really begun to take off in recent years,
but I have been working for a long time.
It’s strange, as a musician gets a little older,
usually some doors start to close. I have
seen that happen in generations before
me. I consider myself very fortunate to have
somehow kept myself in people minds, and
the doors seem to keep opening.
David Philips
MD: Let’s go back to your beginnings as a

drummer?
AS: My first musical inspiration was when
my dad played me Sandy Nelson’s “Let
There be Drums.” That is when I decided this
is what I am going to do, and no one was
going to tell me any different. Thanks to
blind faith and good luck, I’ve managed to
do this all of my life.
There are no musicians in my family, but
my Mum and Dad were very supportive.
A friend of the family would send me
recordings of Shelly Manne, Art Blakey,
Buddy Rich and all of these fantastic big
band records and tapes. So I recognized
their names and when their bands played
near us, my dad would buy tickets and we
would go and see them, I was lucky enough
to meet Art Blakey and Buddy Rich in
1984. When I was 11, I played in a jazz trio
with my music teacher from school, it was
David Philips
piano, bass, and drums. We would play at

dinner-dances and PTA meetings and such.
I learned at that age that jazz was cool, and
that playing the drums was a viable thing
to do. I didn’t have any interest in anything
else. My parents saw my passion in music
and God bless them both, they nurtured it.
I began studying music and recording
in Manchester at Salford, in 1989 I then
attended a small school called Drumtech
in London in 1991. I’m glad to say that
we studied and listened to American jazz
and groove drummers at Drumtech. I
started my professional journey by moving
to London when I was 21. This is in the
pre-internet days, so the options were
London, New York, Los Angeles, Nashville,
or Chicago really. The internet has changed
things. Today, if you are a drummer living
in a small town in the south of Spain for
instance, you can get seen and heard
David Philips
through social media. And if you are a

great drummer, you can grab someone’s
attention, but in the 90s if you were keen
to start a career in music you had to make

the move to one of the music capitals. When I moved to London, my I was caught! Anyway, my fifth gig with Del Amitri was Woodstock
career was an empty canvas. I immediately tried to get some club ’94. I was literally dropped directly into the deep end, and that was
and pub gigs in London. I’ve had some really lucky moments in my the start of my professional journey.
career, one of them was that I was really fortunate to have moved to MD: When you joined Del Amitri, did you have aspirations of
a nice part of town and believe it or not I lived on the same street as becoming a session drummer, or were you just looking for a gig?
Pino Palladino. AS: Great point, I just wanted a gig, I wanted to play. One of the
MD: That is lucky. biggest things that I learned from Pino was that it was alright to like
AS: I was coming back to my flat after a gig with a pint of milk, and all kinds of music. He told me, “It’s all music, and you are a musician.”
I saw a bass player walking out of his house. I remember thinking, That might sound strange to US musicians, because in the US it is
“Great, another musician lives on my street, that’s wonderful.” He alright to like and play all kinds of music. But in the UK, it was a little
proceeded to walk over and get into a brand new 7 Series BMW. I different back then in the 90s. If you played groove music, jazz, or
remember thinking, “Either this is not really a bass player, or he is fusion you weren’t accepted by some pop musicians and producers.
a VERY good bass player.” I saw his face and his height and realized Recently Jeff Lorber made an observation to me, he said, “England
it was Pino. He saw me looking and he came over to talk, and 30 + is interesting, isn’t it? If you can actually play your instrument,
years later we are still very good friends. He was the most open and you aren’t ‘cool.’” And he’s right in a way. There was a point in the
giving person that I have ever met, and he still is. I continually bent 90s when Britpop was big and everything was about bands like
his ear and I showed up to his house with donuts almost every day, Blur and Oasis, and not individual musicians. Becoming a session
and I asked him hundreds of questions. drummer wasn’t all that possible. All of
I asked him about all of the drummers
that he was working with. Jeff, Gadd,
I just wanted a gig, I the attention was on bands, and band
drumming. And I was very aware of
Vinnie, everybody. That was in 1991.
In 1993 I was playing in a pub and
wanted to play. One of that.
MD: There is a very distinct tradition
the bassist from Massive Attack came
in. He hired the guitarist and myself
the biggest things that of British drumming that is interesting.
I’m glad that you mentioned what
for a singer-songwriter named Tom
Robinson that was my first name gig
I learned from Pino was Jeff Lorber said. But is that the British
drumming tradition? Or is it something
and tour. Around that same time Pino
called to tell me that there was a band
that it was alright to like else?
AS: From what I am aware, all of the
called Del Amitri that was looking for
a drummer, and he wanted to know if I
all kinds of music. He great American drummers I know have
done some sort of drum line in their
would be up for it. I was 24 at the time, I
jumped at the opportunity, and my life
told me, “It’s all music, past and have a strong understanding
of rudiments.
changed.
When I got to the audition Chris
and you are a musician.” MD: Which could be a formal drum
corps, a high school marching band, or
Whitten was already in the room
playing, I asked someone who was
That might sound some aspect of the military tradition of
snare drumming.
playing drums, and when I learned it
was Chris, I thought, “Well there’s no
strange to US musicians, AS: Yes. However, we don’t have any
of that in Britain really, so straight
way I’m getting this gig.” Chris had
already toured with McCartney and
because in the US it is away that’s different. My rudimental
knowledge was almost non-existent.
Dire Straits I thought it was game
over for me. That was actually very
alright to like and play Most British drummers have a low bar
for, and a low supply of, technique.
fortunate, because I totally relaxed
and figured, OK I’m here, I might as
all kinds of music. But what isn’t in low supply in the UK
is bands and creating music. All of the
well go in and play and learn from the British drummers who have become
experience. I could go back to London with a bit more experience successful and influential I feel have looked at American drummers
and knowledge, and hopefully get the next audition. and said, “Wow look at that technique, listen to that feel.” We have
Knowing what I know now, you get gigs because of your playing, been inspired by American drummers. But (in general) we Brits
personality, and sometimes your price range. And my price range didn’t develop the technique. We tried to emulate the American
was considerably less than Chris Whitten at the time. Del Amitri was drummers without having the technique to do it. Because of that
about to embark on a huge global tour, and (simply put) I think Chris lack of technique, everything just comes out sounding different. The
was just too expensive. Chris had just finished up the Dire Straits same thing happened with the bands. British bands sometimes try
tour and I don’t think he was keen to do another slog of promo and to sound American, we sometimes get it wrong, and something else
another big tour. The next thing I knew I was on a plane headed to happens that is uniquely British and beautiful. For instance I think
Los Angeles to start rehearsals for the Del Amitri tour. Barrimore Barlow (one time drummer for Jethro Tull) is a perfect
We rehearsed in an old sparring gym of Muhammad Ali’s, and the example of that.
Red Hot Chilli Peppers were rehearsing next door. After rehearsals I should say that I have developed singles, doubles, paradiddles
I sneaked into see Chad’s kit and played it….. the next day he and a few things like that along the way. I just don’t have the
was on me and said have you been playing my drums?! I couldn’t knowledge of that side of drumming. I am working on that. I love
understand how he knew so I shamefully said yes and he shouted the new Gaddiments book! On the other hand, it’s all just a way to
I knew it!!! He knew because he always puts his sticks on the floor express music.
tom when he finishes playing and I’d put them back on the snare!! MD: And like Pino told you, “It’s all music.”

AS: Yes, Pino was right. As a
musician you can do a gig
If you sit and have managed to break into that scene and get a certain
amount of work. Like in any city in the states, there are the
in Rio and contribute to a same guys who get the movie soundtrack work, the record
Brazilian pop session, or you play along to Bob dates, the tours, and to break into that is very difficult. Ian
can play with a Death Metal Thomas is a Welsh drummer who is fantastic. He has toured
band in the Netherlands and Marley records, with Clapton and Mark Knopfler. My first movie session was
contribute there as well. I playing double drums with Ian on the Hans Zimmer/Lorne
loved jazz as a kid, and loved it isn’t going to Balfe soundtrack for Terminator Genisys. Ian is such a warm
being in a band in the 90s, it hearted and gracious guy, and that’s what he sounds like
was all just music. I always had
aspirations to play all different
do you or your when he plays. I have a whole mantra about musicians, and
“you are what you eat.” When I met Gadd for the first time, he
kinds of music, and through
Pino’s confirmations, I learned
playing any harm was so warm hearted and giving, and when you hear him play
that is exactly how he sounds at the drums. Ian is the same
that was OK. In fact, Pino is way. I am actually lucky enough to sub for Ian with Hamish
the perfect example of that, it
whatsoever! Stuart (from the Average White Band) occasionally.
wasn’t that long ago when he Ralph Salmins is another really great drummer who has
was playing with The Who and That in-between been essential in the UK session scene. He has a different
D’Angelo at the same time. attitude about playing the drums. Again, he is just such a
MD: “It’s just music” has always straight and warm and friendly bloke. He toured with Van Morrison for
been one of my mantras, it’s years, and he also toured with the Waterboys after me. He can
interesting that you said that. swung groove swing, groove, read, everything! Karl Brazil is another one. He
Did you realize or have the plays with Robbie Williams and sounds great doing big record
hopes that being in a band
would help you get into the
will always help dates and tours in the UK.
Us British drummers don’t usually make a big impact on
session world? I think that
many young musicians see
your playing. this side of the pond (in North America.) To just be known
in the US, and that companies like Gretsch and Zildjian have
those two things as separate
entities, but it’s really not.
AS: Absolutely. Getting in
a band was a good start. I
absolutely knew that if I played
the Del Amitri songs well on
record, it would be a good
starting point for my career,
and for the things that I wanted
to achieve in music.
MD: There is nothing as
educational or helpful in a
career as just playing every
night, and when you are in a
band, you are playing every
night.
AS: You are so right. Before this
tour with Tori Amos, I hadn’t
done a tour since I toured with
Sinead O’ Connor in 2012. To
prepare for this tour I did a
bit of running, and I played
through imaginary sets of
David Philips
music, I practiced, I did all of

the preparation that I could.
But truthfully, the only way to
get really prepared for a tour,
is to tour and play every night.
It takes about a week or so of
shows to become “gig fit.”
MD: Can I ask you about the session scene in the UK? There doesn’t recognized and championed me is so wonderful and such an honor.
seem to be a whole lot of session drummers in the UK. I am aware Vic Firth and I are actually working on a signature stick for future
of a few. Gavin Harrison just hipped me to Tony Beard, I have always release, Gretsch is making my signature snare, and I’m even working
loved the late Jimmy Copley, but who was around on the session on a book for Hudson Music. These are true schoolboy dreams
scene when you were breaking in? for any British drummer. On this tour with Tori, the number of
AS: The UK is incredibly small. There are only a handful of us who drummers that have either reached out or made a point to come out

to a show has been amazing. Omar Hakim, Steve Ferrone, Stewart on the drums still matters. People think that your personality isn’t
Copeland, David Garibaldi, Keith Carlock, Stanton Moore, and Mark as important as it was with the nature of modern technology and
Guiliana, these are my heroes. To make an impact here, and to earn ProTools, because everything (warts and all) can get ironed out. But
the respect of American drummers, some of whom have become when you are laying it down, people still want to look through the
good friends, and to appear on the cover of Modern Drummer, I just glass and say, that feels good! Even though they might edit and re
can’t describe what that feels like. arrange your performance after you are done, they still want it to
David Philips
To find popularity as an independent British drummer is just so feel good when you are recording a part.
rare these days. My friend Gavin Harrison has made an impact in the MD: Have producers changed?
US as an independent drummer. Then there is the club of “if you can’t AS: I work with some older producers like Trevor Horn and Steve
beat them, join them” of Dave Mattacks, Steve Ferrone, and Simon Lipson. I learn a lot from working with them. I really like working
Phillips. They made the decision to actually move to the US. with Fraser T. Smith on Adele’s music, Jimmy Napes on the Sam
MD: I am a big believer in career longevity, and all of the guys Smith music, and I love working with Mark Taylor on Cher’s music.
that you have mentioned have accomplished the ultimate goal of Although that is two distinct generations of producers, they all
longevity, as have you, so you deserve to be in that group. require the same thing. They want a good feel, they want the
AS: I consider myself to be a 30-year overnight success. musical attitude to be correct. Obviously, there are new things going
MD: Now you are finding yourself working with younger artists. on: samples, sound replacement, loops, groove replacement, but
Have you found a difference in working with younger vs. older when you are laying down tracks people still want it to feel good.
artists? That hasn’t changed.
AS: Not really no. The younger artists and producers still require MD: Has Trevor ever told you why he likes working with you?
you to play with feel, passion, and deliver a vibe. It doesn’t matter if AS: He likes my jokes! He says I know when a joke is needed to
it’s Ed Sheeran or Rod Stewart, they both require the same musical keep the mood of a session up-beat, positive, and moving forward.
potion and approach. I guess that’s why some of the older musicians But seriously, Trevor likes drummers that are consistent, drummers
are still working, because it is still the same. that use dynamics, and drummers that he can edit. At heart, Trevor
MD: It’s all music. is an arranger, so he’ll move sections of music around within the
AS: The drumset has been a modern instrument for only about song. The second half of your verse might turn into a bridge. But it
100 years, and today we are really delivering the same stuff that isn’t only a ProTools thing, he used to do that with tape too. Trevor
Ringo was in the 60s. When Ringo started playing a consistent really likes drummers whose parts he can edit and move around
backbeat in a song back then with the Beatles, it was a whole new seamlessly. What it comes down to is that he likes old-school values
thing, and we’re still doing that today. Sound, feel, and personality from a musician.

MD: How did this tour with Tori Amos come about? and she has allowed him to leave a thumbprint on her music. How
AS: I played on The Voice here in the UK for about seven years, and it did you deal with that aspect of the gig?
was the perfect gig at the perfect time. My kids were young, it was AS: Obviously, those are enormous shoes to try to fill. Matt is so
a regular gig, and I was home all of the time. I started to think about stylistically perfect for the gig, and he has such a brilliant voice
the future, and wondered if I would still want to be doing The Voice on the drums, so yes it was pretty daunting. But the fantastic
television show when I was 60 years old? Those thoughts coincided thing is that Tori was (and is) open to my interpretations of her
with building my studio and starting to record tracks at home, and music. Obviously, there are certain grooves and parts that can’t be
I started to get very busy. I left The Voice in 2019 and I was doing changed, and I wouldn’t dare change them. For example, Matt’s
recordings with Alicia Keys and Ed Sheeran, and there were some groove on “Sweet Sangria” is part of the DNA of that tune, that is
bigger names that were starting to knock on my door, and I figured classic Matt Chamberlain, so I do my best to “be” Matt on that tune.
that I had to give it a go. I have continued chipping away at it, and But I can only go so far. Ultimately, and going back to the talk about
here I am. I left The Voice to leave myself open for some more artistic British drumming, I sound like me playing Matt Chamberlain.
ventures. When the pandemic hit, I was very fortunate to be one of MD: That has nothing to do with being British, that has to do with
David Philips
the only guys in the UK that was set up to do drum tracks remotely, being human. You can only be you.
so that was fantastic and very lucky for me. AS: But there is a certain swampy American groove that Keith
Last year Tori’s management emailed me and asked if I would be Carlock, Stanton Moore, and Matt Chamberlain all have. It’s an
interested in doing a tour. I knew that if I was going to go back on ingrained American gumbo of groove. We don’t have that in
the road, it would have to be financially right, musically engaging, England, we have to immerse ourselves in it, and (try) to learn it.
and it would have to be with an artist whom I could learn from Tori is American but lives in England, so I guess that has worked in
and engage with musically. Tori ticked all of the boxes and more. my favor, and her bassist Jon Evans has been an absolute sweetheart
The next day Keith Carlock emailed me asking me if I would be to work with. He has done the gig for 25 years with Matt, and has
interested in touring with Tori as well. I think Keith put in a good never done the gig with anyone else, and he has been so giving
word for me, and I got the gig. I’m very thankful for Keith’s friendship and understanding, I call him Obi Wan because he’s helped me like
and support. a Jedi master. It has been a fantastic learning experience because
MD: Matt Chamberlain has put a huge thumbprint on Tori’s music, we do a new tune every day, so I get to listen to and learn from Matt

Chamberlain every day. Although Matt and I have shared some good deal of sessions in London where the entire rhythm section
records together, we have never met, but I am having fun learning was in the same room at the same time, and I look forward to
from him and putting my own spin on the songs, and I hope we’ll getting back to that. That world still exists. But there are a lot of
get a chance to meet soon. younger producers who are coming from a different world. The fact
MD: I don’t even know where I would start to find the entranceway is, that is how mainstream pop music is made, like it or not. You have
into Tori’s music without trying to sound like Matt. How did you to move with the times.
approach that challenge? MD: You have done a lot of records, what ones would you point to as
AS: The first thing was that I changed my drumset. I am known for being ones to check out?
using a small Ringo or Charlie Watts type of set. But in my studio, I AS: I love working with producer Mark Taylor on the Cher records,
have a couple of sets, one has a drier bass drum, one is wide open. and the single “I Hope You Find It” is a track that offers a good
Tori’s husband mixes front of house on the tour, so he is very dialed example of my straight pop playing. Adele’s “Set Fire to the Rain”
in to sound. So I created a bigger set that covered all of the sounds is another track that everyone talks about. James Morrison’s You’re
that Matt used, and tried to cover all of the stylistic bases for Tori’s Stronger Than You Know is good and I’m on the whole record, Billy
wide variety of recordings. Sonically, my drums can get close to the Idol’s Kings & Queens of the Underground is me rockin’ a little harder.
sounds Matt created. Feel-wise it will never be identical. Back in 2001 I did a record with producer Ross Robinson who
MD: What tunes do you enjoy playing the most? produced Korn, Slipknot, and Limp Bizkit. The band was called Vex
AS: I like “Cornflake Girl,” which Red and the record was called Start
I don’t think was recorded by
Matt. It swings, and I made the
There was a four-year with a Strong and Persistent Desire.
No one would even think that is
brazen decision to play a halftime
shuffle on it and it works, it’s sort
period when I barely even me playing, but it’s a really good
example of me playing hard rock
of swampy, so that’s a highlight. I
like to play “Pancake” and the song
played the drums, I just and metal. Ross Garfield provided
the drums for that record, and he
“God”. She has some fantastic big
cinematic songs that I play shakers
recorded, listened, and brought a beautiful Gretsch kit and
the famous Tama Bell Brass snare
and atmospheric stuff on which are
a lot of fun.
learned in my studio. that Dave Grohl used on Nevermind,
and it was amazing. That record with
MD: What is working with Hans
Zimmer like? That is the film
After 10 years of work, my Vex Red is a great example of my
playing. The drum sound is fantastic,
equivalent of playing with the
Beatles.
engineering skills have we recorded to tape, I just love that
record. I also really like the Seal
AS: I adore Hans, and almost
everyone who works with him
gotten to a good place. records Seven and Soul 2 and the Rod
Stewart record that I did with Trevor
adores him. I did Terminator Genisys
with Lorne Balfe, and that led to
I did a Seal record, and a producing. The new Julian Lennon
record that I did just came out and
Kung Fu Panda with Lorne but Rod Stewart track with it turned out great. And believe it or
Courtesy Gavin Harrison

Hans was there too. That led to me not I am doing a Bob Marley album
working with Hans on The Lion King
and Boss Baby 2. I just worked with
Trevor Horn and he liked right now.
MD: WHAT??? A “new” Bob Marley
Hans and Steve Lipson at British
Grove Studios (Mark Knopfler’s
the final drum tracks, I record?
AS: They are adding strings to some
Studio.) One of the first things that
I noticed about Hans was that he
knew that I was doing of the old Marley records, and the
Marley family is fully supporting
treated everyone as an equal. The
guy who brought Hans his tea was
something right. the project partly because it is an
ethnically diverse orchestra and it’s
treated equally to a musician. With really being done right! Believe it
Hans there is no pecking order, or not, I had to replace the Carlton
everyone is an equal. The kid who is operating the ProTools rig, is as Barrett drum tracks to make the re-recording possible.
important as the 6’4” legend who is playing fretless bass. MS: That sounds like sacrelige.
MD: That is refreshing to hear. AS: I know, unfathomable right? When they approached me, I said
AS: Because of that, it seems anyone will do anything for Hans. He exactly that, that’s sacrelige, you can’t change Carlton Barrett’s drum
has an amazing talent for making creatives feel that they are special, parts!
and because of that he gets amazing results from them. Fortunately, MD: They are so slinky, and there is so much feel there.
that seems to be becoming the norm with the producers that I work AS: I know, but when they sent me the tracks, I knew why they
with. Steve Lipson, Mark Taylor, and Fraser T. Smith are the same wanted to do it. The tracks are labeled kick and snare. It sounds
way. like a 57 in the bass drum, and a 57 as an overhead, and that was
MD: When you are doing remote sessions how much it. Everything leaked into those two mics. They wanted to remix
communication do you have with the artist and the producer? the tracks and they needed new drum tracks that were properly
AS: It varies. When I did the Seal record, he Facetimed me. When I recorded to widen the drum sound. When I heard the tracks, I began
work with Trevor Horn he and I communicate regularly. He is very to understand the need. That meant I had to go through the tracks
good at referencing different grooves and such. Remote is a slower and learn Carlton’s parts and play exactly what he played.
process but we always get there. Before the pandemic I still did a MD: And more importantly HOW he played.

AS: I adore reggae music, and I cherish Carlton’s playing, so this was bass player friend named Winston Blissett, who is actually the bassist
an opportunity to learn from Carlton. from Massive Attack that I mentioned earlier, because he and I used
MD: That is a wonderful opportunity to put a legendary drummer to play reggae music all of the time.
under the microscope and really hear what was happening, so tell MD: What else did you learn from your microscopic reggae
me what you learned? education from the master?
AS: There were some tracks where he would stick to a part for 8, AS: The biggest misconception about reggae is that it is laid back,
10, or 12 bars before he played a fill or did something different. He which isn’t true, that’s a big misconception. There are a handful of
was just grooving! Then there are other tunes where he is playfully signature fills which are actually very similar that you have to learn.
interacting with the rhythm guitar, the bass, and what Bob was And the discussion about how there should never be a crash on one
singing. In those tunes he was changing what he played every two is rubbish.
bars or so. He was literally changing the groove by adding a little It’s great feel music, and one thing is for sure, If you sit and
extra hi hat or bass drum every two bars or so. It was fascinating play along to Bob Marley records, it isn’t going to do you or your
how he approached different songs. playing any harm whatsoever! That in-between straight and swung
MD: Was it your job to play exactly what he played? groove will always help your playing, and it’s in the Marley music
AS: Yes. in bucketloads! Some of Carlton’s fills will make you laugh out
loud, because you are left
wondering, how did THAT
work? You can’t transcribe
it. I just love the music, and
that’s really all you can do.
MD: Again, like Pino said,
“It’s all music.”
AS: To be the same
drummer that played on
that Vex Red record in 2001
and to play on this Bob
Marley record today is just
so exciting for me. I really
enjoy the fact that they are
so completely different,
and yet they are both
my drumming style and
approach.
MD: I know you are a bit of
a drum geek, so let’s drum
David Philips
geek out a bit about gear.

The set that you are using
with Tori is beautiful and it
sounds great. What are you
using up there?
AS: Let’s start with the
MD: Did you transcribe the parts? snares. Gretsch knew that I had a longtime love of Purpleheart
AS: No, I did it on ProTools 4, 8, 12 or 16 bars at a time. There were a wood, and they made me a prototype several years ago.
few tunes that I could remember an entire verse or chorus, but most MD: What is it about Purpleheart?
of it was done 4 or 8 bars at a time. I would have 8 bar run-ups, and AS: Purpleheart has some great low end, but here’s the whole
then drop in 8 bars, and have to do the same thing for the next 8 story… In the 80s and 90s Brady drums was making Stave drums out
bars because what he was playing was so complex and crazy. of Jarrah. I think Steve Jordan was playing a 7x12 Jarrah Brady on
Originally, they were going to layer my playing on top of Carlton’s the David Sanborn record called Upfront and on the Keith Richards
to just get a better sound, and they might have actually done that record Main Offender. I loved those records, and Steve has such a
on a few tracks. It was just a drum sound and sonic control thing. great sound. Unfortunately, I could never afford one of those drums,
But when they heard a few of those tracks they figured that my they were just too expensive. There was a British drum manufacturer
parts were good enough to stand on their own. The producer (Nick that made block style shelled drums that were similar to Brady’s
Patrick) says I am actually credited as playing with Bob Marley on at a quarter of the price. They made me a 7x12 block Purpleheart
the recording, which is just insanity to me! drum. It’s a drum I used a lot. If you detune it a bit and dampen it a
At first, I wasn’t sure if I should even do the project, I knew I could little, it sounds like a medium tuned 14" drum, but with something
get a bit of flack for it. But then I just viewed it as a job for me as “extra.” I used that drum early on with the bands Faithless and MJ
a musician, I relished the challenge, but I adore that music. In the Cole. Producers would ask for the drum I played on the Paul Jackson
end I figured that if I didn’t do it, someone else could come along Jr album, and Paul asked for that sound too. At that same time I
and possibly really mess it up, so at least I knew that I was going to was using a detuned sound on pop records because of how the
approach it with the utmost respect. frequency of the drum sits below the vocals. It occupies a nice sonic
I know I am a white guy from England playing reggae music, but position in a track that is above the bass drum but below the vocals.
I really wanted to do this project correctly! So for advice I called a A snare drum that is tuned higher can interfere with the vocals,

but a detuned drum just sits perfectly within the mix. I used the Gretsch Black Nitron shell pack in all the sizes. We are all familiar
Purpleheart again with Jeff Lorber. Vinnie Colaiuta and Gary Novak with “That Great Gretsch Sound” What do you think is the “thing” with
were also on that record, but that drum along with the detuned Gretsch’s, why do they sound so great?
sound, definitely became part of my sound, and I fell in love with it. AS: I have had my 1963 Round Badge’s in 20, 12, 16 since I was 23
Gretsch made me a 7x12 Purpleheart ply drum without my even years old, and I have used them on a lot of records. Enrique Iglesias,
asking. When I got the drum, I loved it. It’s different from the block Cher, all five James Morrison records I played on, and many more.
sound, which is very compressed and short. My signature 7x12 Although I’ve had relationships with other manufacturers, and no
Purpleheart ply drum has even more bottom end and more sustain matter what other kits I was playing live, that kit has made most of
than the original block drum, and I just love it! With Tori, I am using the records.
that drum as my main snare and it sounds fabulous. I used that When I was with Yamaha, and they changed their factory and
drum with guitarist Ariel Posen and Cory Wong on the track called Hagi left, us European drummers weren’t made aware of the change,
“Spare Tire” and it is perfect. and we felt left in the dark. So I went with Sakae, they were making
MD: What is the rest of the kit with Tori? a Maple Poplar Maple shell and I love that sound from my years of
AS: Gretsch built me a replica of my Broadkaster studio kit in Black playing Gretsch. When Sakae folded, it coincided with DW buying
Satin Flame that is a 10" rack tom, 13" and 16" floor toms, a 14x22 Gretsch, and making the Maple Poplar Maple Broadkasters again.
main kick and a 16x20 second kick. The second kick is tuned wide When I heard that I was sold, that’s why I am finally with Gretsch,
open with no hole in the front head and no muffling. The snare on and Gretsch is at the forefront of the drum world yet again. I adore
my left is my 1950s 4x14 Max Roach signature snare tuned down my new Broadkaster kits and my DW hardware and pedals.
and swampy. Lucas Gretsch has nicknamed that drum “Phat Max.” MD: Are you as much of a cymbal nut as you are a drum nut?
MD: I just had this conversation with Peter Erskine, but aren’t 4" and AS: I have always played Zildjian, I had a few Paiste’s when I was a
4.5" snares the greatest? kid because of Stewart Copeland, Jeff, and Bonham. But Zildjian
AS: Here is the great things about drum magazines. I remember became part of my sound. I have old K’s, old A’s, and lots of new
reading an old interview with JR Robinson when he talked about Zildjians. I have a set of 1969 14" A hats that I have used on an
Rufus and Chaka Khan, and he mentioned 4" drums being really fat. I endless number of sessions. There is a guy at Zildjian who says
remember thinking that was interesting. If you detune a deep drum, they’re the best sounding hi hats in the world. The new set of 14’s
you miss the midrange and the high end. But if you detune a 4" that I have with Tori are as close as you can get to the old ones. I love
drum a bit you get the low end and a very nice high end as well. It’s the new FX Raw Crashes that Zildjian is making. I have a 1987 K ride
actually very close to the original Linn drum snare sound. The 4" Max that is beautiful. I have Kerope’s and Constantinolple’s, I mix and
Roach drums are the best ones that I have found. match everything. I have a lot of cymbals lying around in my studio.
MD: You are preaching to the choir, I have several 4” and
4.5" snares. OK, we have entered the snare drum world,
what other snares do you love?
AS: I have a beautiful Joe Montineri snare 4x14 in Copper
glitter, I have quite a few vintage round badge Gretsch’s
that are the greatest hip hop snares when they’re
cranked up. I have a 1970’s COB 4160, a 1969 Acrolite
which I love, a 1976 6.5 Supraphonic which is a very
versatile drum. I have a Yamaha Maple Absolute that has
been on tons of sessions (including the Adele sessions)
so that drum isn’t going anywhere. Sugar Percussion
made me a drum too. There are some brilliant custom
drum makers out there.
MD: Do you have any 15’s?
David Philips
AS: I also have a 4x15 snare made by Gary Noonan, again

because JR used to use 15’s. I’m not a “collector,” I have
never gone out of my way to pursue a specific drum. I’ve
been playing drums for over 40 years, and if you are into
gear (like many of us are,) you will accumulate a decent
amount of good sounding drums (or cymbals) that you
acquire over the years, just because they sound good. I can go from vintage sounds to modern sounds to extra dry sounds
MD: I said those exact words to someone yesterday. and everything in between.
AS: I have 10 or 12 drum kits and 50 or so snares, and I am nowhere MD: What are the cymbals on stage with Tori?
near someone like Matt Chamberlain who I am told has hundreds of AS: The hats are the 14" new vintage A New Beats, a 6" A Splash and
sets and snares. a 10" Sweet K Splash, a Custom Dry 10" Splash, and 18" Kerope. My
MD: So what about sets? main ride is a 22" Overhammered Constantinople that I occasionally
AS: I have four Broadkaster sets, a 1963 Round Badge Gretsch, swap out for a 22" Medium Low, to my right I have a 20" Staccato
1965 Maple Classic Ludwig, and a Yamaha Club Custom and a few Ride that is a great crash or ride.
other Yamaha’s from my time with them. I still have a Sakae Trilogy MD: I know you must have a lot of little toys and sounds that you are
kit from my short time with them. Unfortunately, I don’t have my using to cop Matt’s approach, is there anything that you would like
original Premier kit. That was 1980s single headed Olympic kit that to mention?
sounded great. AS: When I was in New York, I went to a shop called the Music Inn,
MD: You are talking to a Gretsch guy, I have a completely tweaked the place is straight out of Harry Potter. In the basement they have

tons of old stuff, and I bought a bunch of shakers and bells etc. I but making sure everything lines up is hugely important, it creates a
am attaching them to my drums and cymbals. They create great much better sound and performance on the drums.
textures. I learned this from Mark Gulianna. MD: When you are recording in your studio, and you play a first take,
MD: What is the strangest thing that you have ever done to a drum what are you listening to when you listen back?
or a cymbal to get a certain sound? AS: The good thing about remote recording is that I get much more
AS: What a great question! I tape cymbals and drums but that’s not time to listen to a song beforehand and to listen to each take than I
strange. People see me using tape on drums and cymbals and some do on a traditional recording session. I usually get a final take in five
complain. But if Trevor Horn asks me to dampen or tape up a drum or less passes. There are the occasional mythical one take wonders,
or a cymbal, I’ll put a dead cat on it if needed to make him happy. I but I think those are largely a myth. If I am recording a complete
will do anything to get the sound that people want. I have strapped song, I will figure out what fills work within the first few takes, but I
a tambourine to the front head of my 20” bass drum which I have still try to do complete takes. I can drop in anything, which is fine. But
never seen someone do, so that’s pretty strange (I guess.) I still try to get complete takes.
MD: Let’s talk about your studio, what is some of your favorite MD: What is the percentage of recording work that you are doing
recording gear? in your studio vs. recording away from home in bigger commercial
AS: I created my studio 10 years ago to store my gear and maybe do studios?
a bit of practicing. I had no aspirations of it becoming a recording AS: Since the pandemic, it’s about 100% in my home studio. When
studio really. After I did that, a producer friend of mine asked me I get home, I am starting a new Cher record in my studio. Drum
what the room sounded like. I had no idea. He told me to put a mic sessions can be an expensive endeavor in a big studio, and recording
up and record into Garage Band. He listened to the file and said the budgets have gotten smaller, and unfortunately a lot of the bigger
room sounded good, why don’t you set it up to record? studios have closed. Therefore, drummers like me, Aaron Sterling,
There are two ways to do that. One way is to slowly buy some and others have come along and offered our services by way of our
mics, an interface, and so on, and build it up slowly. The other home studios. There are downsides. I can’t interact with the producer
way is to jump in with both feet, or the artist like I would if we were all
invest a serious sum of money into The good thing about together on a studio session. And I am
speakers, ProTools, interfaces, mics, stuck with the sounds that are on the
stands, cables, and spend some time remote recording is tracks that they send, I can’t really change
learning ProTools. That’s what I did. At them, which can get a bit annoying
the time, the only thing I knew about that I get much more sometimes. But I love the process and the
was microphones. Like all drummers experimentation of recording.
who do sessions, you see the same
time to listen to a song MD: When you are recording tracks, how
microphones every day and on most
sessions. In the UK you see Coles ribbon
beforehand and to do you know when a drum track is done?
AS: Most times the producer will let you
mics on almost every session. Now
you see them all over the globe. I must
listen to each take than know when they are happy. If you can
stand back and listen to a track with the
admit that I have had a lot of help from
my producer friends along the way.
I do on a traditional greater musical purpose in mind, you
can tell when you have gotten to a good
There was a four-year period when I recording session. place with the song. The good thing
barely even played the drums, I just about working remotely is that I can
recorded, listened, and learned in my completely immerse myself in a track. I
studio. After 10 years of work, my engineering skills have gotten to can make sure the sound and the feel are perfect before I send the
a good place. I did a Seal record, and a Rod Stewart track with Trevor producer the final track.
Horn and he liked the final drum tracks, I knew that I was doing MD: You have mentioned some great Steve Jordan recordings
something right, and I have built and grown from there. already, what are some of your other favorite records?
I use Universal Audio interfaces, I have some Neve stuff and AS: I am a Stewart Copeland nut and through Trevor we have
Neuman stuff as well. I do have some old outboard gear like old become friends. Stewart is on my EP, so I love any Police records. But
compressors and a Roland Space Echo. I keep my Broadcasters I must say, Stewart is a comet of a person, he is a character and has
always mic’d up in a modern way at the studio, and I also have my enough energy to run a small country. It no surprise that when he
old Ludwig’s mic’d up at all times with a really old school approach. plays the drums, “hey presto” (!) that’s how he sounds, and I love him
I like an original D19 hanging above the kit and a U47 on the bass for that.
drum. Mark Gulianna is a real character too, Americans would call him
MD: How does the recording process help someone hone their craft “kooky,” and that could possibly apply to how he plays the drums. He
as a drummer? is inquisitive and exploring as a person and as a musician. And he has
AS: Great question! When you record yourself, and listen back, and a great sense of humour. That all comes across in his playing.
re-record and listen back, and edit your part in your mind for the The first Chaka Khan record with Steve Ferrone is one of my
next take, you develop a consistency. The process of recording and favorite records ever. Steve immersed himself in American groove
going into the control room and listening back countless times drumming, and he is a beaming light of groove. He is a reliable,
is how so many of our heroes like Steve Gadd or Jeff Porcaro (for dependable bloke, and (of course) that’s how he sounds. The later
instance) have developed their professional consistency. That means Average White band records are amazing, and I love his playing with
the way you play your hi hats, the way you play your bass drum, Tom Petty. I really liked his playing with Clapton too. Steve and I have
making your drumset sounds like a single instrument, and playing become friends too via Hamish Stuart and Trevor Horn. We shared
consistent back beats. Making sure your hi hat and snare drum drop the drum chair on a Rod Stewart album.
at the same time is a big part of it too. That might sound very basic, Speaking of Clapton, I have been a Clapton fan for a long time. I

have seen him with Andy Newmark, Ferrone, Gadd, Steve Jordan. But social media (or in Modern Drummer,) and open the door to a whole
I also saw Richie Hayward with Clapton, I think he did three shows new world of drumming for younger drummers, I will. I feel like that
with Eric, and it was amazing. You would imagine that would be a is part of my responsibility as a musician.
match made in heaven, but I actually think that Richie was (possibly) MD: Doesn’t the negative aspect of social media ever get to you?
even too greasy for Eric. I wish we heard more about Richie because AS: I spent seven years playing on The Voice, there is a lot of pressure
his playing really touches me. The way Richie sat between swing and playing on TV, it’s a pressure cooker. I have played in front of most of
straight. The way that he plays Little Feat’s “Long Distance Love” gets my drumming heroes, and with some of my musical heroes. If I post
me every time. something on social media and someone doesn’t like it, that’s fine.
MD: Again, you are preaching to the choir, he is one of my favorite People can be judgmental, everybody has an opinion, that’s fine.
drummers ever. When I play in any context, I am going to give everything I can. That
AS: Of course, everything that Purdie does is constantly on my radar, is me being me. If someone doesn’t like that, that’s a shame, but I’m
especially the Aretha stuff. I adore Keith Moon, Ringo and Charlie still going to do it. I try to look at the positive side of any criticism
Watts too. Of course, Jeff Porcaro, I remember hearing “Rosanna” for that I get, but when Hans Zimmer or Abe Laboriel or Stewart
the first time when I was 13, and no one I knew in England could Copeland or Omar Hakim likes what I am doing that’s really all that
explain what he was playing. matters. If some guy in his bedroom chooses to be negative, that
MD: Speaking of Richie and half-time shuffles, check out “Cadillac really doesn’t bother me because the people that I love and respect
Hotel,” (especially the live version) it’s one of the best half-time the most seem to like what I’m doing.
shuffles EVER! What are some of your favorite Gadd recordings other I have about a quarter of a million followers on Instagram, 100,000
than the obvious Chick Corea and Paul Simon recordings? on Facebook, and now (hilariously) 40,000 on TikTok. When I post
AS: There are a few Bob James records that he is on that I love, and on social media, I post about things that I like, things that I am
that Freddie Hubbard Windjammer record that he split with Andy interested in, and things that I find interesting. People ask me who
Newmark. Of course, I love his Ricky Lee Jones stuff too. He sounds my “social media manager” is, and I just laugh. That’s hilarious! I post
great on some of the Clapton stuff, and I love the Kate Bush record about things that I honestly and sincerely care about, and that’s it.
Fifty Words for Snow. Steve and I talked recently on the phone, and I MD: It’s amazing how that works, honesty and sincerity… What a
hope to see him soon in London. concept.
I have to mention Andy Newmark again. He is originally from
Bermuda, and after he and Clapton parted ways, Andy went back
to Bermuda and ran a club. When I was playing with Squeeze in Check out Ash’s Modern Drummer profile
1998, we played at his club for a week, and it turned out that he page at moderndrummer.com
had worked with Squeeze too. When he moved back to the UK, he
started doing The Lion King, and he wanted me to be his sub, but I
had to turn him down because my reading just wasn’t good enough.
Later on, he recommended me for a Marianne Faithful tour. I love
his playing on John and Yoko’s Double Fantasy, Sly and the Family
Stone’s Fresh, Roxy Music’s Avalon. There is a Bob James record that
Andy and Gadd did. It’s hard to tell them apart at times.
Manu Katche’ is a big influence, and I think everything that he has
played on is magical. The fluidity of Omar Hakim changed my whole
life. Omar came to see me play with Tori in Brooklyn recently. Keith
Carlock has been a fantastic support too. I can’t not mention David
Garibaldi who is a constant. David has been so incredibly supportive
of me, we have become good friends. The original drummer from
Level 42 Phil Gould is a dear friend of mine too, he was a major
influence and I love his playing. People forget that (like Neil Peart
for Rush,) Phil wrote the lyrics for Level 42 songs. Then there’s
otherworldly talents of Gary Husband. Henry Spinetti who played
a little while with Clapton is fantastic, and I love Dave Mattacks’
work with Fairport Convention. He did a great record with Joan
Armatrading too.
MD: Let’s conclude by talking about social media a bit. I must admit,
because of your recent high exposure on social media I thought that
you were much younger.
AS: You’re not the first to think that. The truth is that a drummer in
his 50s really shouldn’t be messing around on social media platforms
that are primarily for teenagers. I have been on Instagram for 10
years, I started posting there to document the creation of my studio
10 years ago. I think my popularity there might have grown because
I was one of the first guys to make my Instagram recordings with a
professional recording setup, instead of just an iphone. But I enjoy
the (mainly) positive exchange of ideas and opinions on Instagram
and now even TikTok. If I can draw someone’s attention to Richie
Hayward, Steve Ferrone, Barrimore Barlow, or Andy Newmark etc on

Tim Northup:
The Northup Drum Museum,
Come on in and PLAY!
By Mark Griffith
uring my years of touring, I have been to just about every musical museum in the
D world, and I know (and respect) people who collect things. But the one thing I have
never liked about either, is the tendency to keep museum items and collections behind a
glass shield or a velvet rope, and for collectors to discourage or not allow people to use and
interact with their collections. The Northup Drum Museum is NOT that type of museum,
and Tim Northup is not that type of collector. Let’s face it,
drums are created to be played with sticks and brushes, they
aren’t fragile. For those of us who feel a little deeper about
such things, we might say that drums have “souls” and their
reason for existence is to be played and to make a joyful noise.
Personally, when I see an old instrument, I want to hear it and I
want to play it. I want to hear its personality. Lucky to say, I was
in the right place, and Tim Northup agrees.
Tim Northup is not your typical drum collector, and
this is NOT your typical museum. The vintage sticks and
brushes that sit on every drumset he displays, are not just
there for show. Tim encourages everyone to sit down and
play every instrument at the Northup Drum Museum. In a
typical museum, if something is in a glass case, it’s for display
purposes only, but not here! Tim is actually eager to pull
any of his drums off of the shelf for any musician to play
and explore. His 30 (or so) drum sets sit in a wide open (and
fantastic sounding) showroom in Oneonta, New York just
waiting to be played by the next visitor. His museum is a very
special place that every drummer young and old, beginner or
professional, unknown or legendary, should visit.
Tim Northup started as a drummer, he was a music
industry minor and an art history major in college at the State
College of New York in Oneonta, and now he is a drummer, museum curator, instrument
collector, and an antique and art dealer. His knowledge of the antique and art world is
captivating. However, somewhere during his journey of buying and selling antiques and art,
his life as a musician and an antique dealer happily intersected.
Tim was always intrigued by the old hand painted drumheads of the early 1900s and saw
many in his travels. He bought these unique pieces of American art. But after a while he
began to look behind the glowing bass drum heads that excited him. Behind those heads
were the drums of the 1920s and 30s, and they really began to speak to him.
20 years ago, his love for the unique instruments of musical days gone by compelled him
to start buying and restoring old drums. After all, when he bought those beautiful drum
David Philips
heads, he got the drums too. After 10 years of learning about and restoring drums, Tim had
a chance encounter with a giant vintage drum collection that was for sale, and he jumped
in. He couldn’t resist their beauty, allure, and place within American History. That’s where I
began my fascinating day at the happiest place on earth (sorry Disneyland!)

MD: How did this whole collection and museum begin? canvas) with dots of paint instead of brush strokes. The painters at
TN: I always loved the look of the old hand-painted drumheads from Leedy got really good at Stipple painting, so the hand painted Leedy
an artistic perspective. I am an antiques and art dealer, restoration heads tend to survive the best. I actually have an old picture of an
specialist, but I also design and create lighting. When I found those artist at the Leedy factory Stipple Painting with a stack of bass drum
heads, I enjoyed restoring the lighting that went inside the bass heads next to him.
drums and really made the drumsets come to life. MD: Was it almost an impressionistic way of painting?
The story behind hand-painted drumheads is fascinating. From TN: Yes it was an impressionistic way of painting to create a realistic
about 1925 until 1940 you could order your drumsets to come with image. When you ordered your set, you could pick the scene
a hand painted bass drum head. It was an additional 10 to 15 dollars that you wanted on your head. The popular scenes were a Dutch
when you ordered a new set from Ludwig, Leedy, or Slingerland. windmill, a boat in a lake, mountain scenes and landscapes, log
The early Ludwig painted heads cracked because (as we all know) cabins in the woods, and Moose and different animals. Later, there
calfskin moves with the weather. Humidity made them slunk, and were also art-deco style heads with nude dancers, butterfly girls,
dryness made them expand. Early on, the Ludwig painters used and the spider web girl patterns
long brush strokes and their paintings would eventually crack. The However, as soon as Gene Krupa came along, he stripped away
drumhead painters had to learn to Stipple Paint like French artist all of the gadgets from the drumsets, and he started using his
George Seurat. When you Stipple Paint, you are dotting the head (or monogrammed shield on his front bass drum head. The tradition
1920s Ludwig Tango trap set with a version of Moonlight 1920s Ludwig Niagara Falls trap set with pioneer
Silhouette head, nickel over brass snare drum, Charleston pedal. nickel snare drum, China tom, and lowboy.
of hand painted bass drum heads was over. But there was a good and percussion instruments, but he was right! I started to display
15-year period when there were a lot of hand painted drums heads everything with a more museum approach and created some
being made. educational background leaflets about each kit, I changed the name
MD: So when did this love of hand painted drum heads, and minor of my FaceBook page, and people started to come to visit. When
obsession with 1920s drums become a museum? How do you find people started to visit, I encouraged everyone to play the drums and
and acquire most of your items. everything that is here. Everything here is tuned and ready to play,
TN: I like to buy collections. I started a Facebook group based most of the drums have period correct calf heads, and everything is
around 1920s drums, painted heads, and sound effects. I invited a ready to go.
few friends that I had made in the collector’s world, and we are now I actually had Pete Jarvis and the New Jersey Percussion Ensemble
over 2,000 members strong. It is one of the of the most active drum here a while back and they did a recording here using eight different
groups on Facebook. I have established some very good friends snare drums and a lot of the other instruments that I have. Pete is
along the way, who are also some of the sources for finding rare a musical genius. He actually wrote some pieces of music just for
and vintage items for the museum. Joe Barthlette from Wood and the instruments at the museum. They actually turned the museum
Weather Drum Shop is a good friend, as is Richard King who is the into a recording studio (because it sounds so good in here) and
“hardware guy” for vintage they did a record right here. When
drums, have both found I have college and high school
some of my rarest items for music students come through, they
me. Drum shows, online have never seen of any of these old
auctions, and developing instruments, let alone actually heard
relationships with good them. So young drummers can get a
drum dealers is the best way real education here too.
to find vintage drums. MD: I am happily surprised by the
MD: I know it’s not about fact that you encourage everyone
the number of sets that you to play the drums in the museum.
have, but how many sets and That’s what makes you different. Who
snares do you have here? has been here to see and play your
TN: I haven’t counted drums?
recently, I think there are 30 TN: Arthur Vint from Vince Giordano
or so sets, over 100 snares, and the Nighthawks came up and
and maybe 200 Zildjian played everything, we had a great
cymbals? I have bought most time. Michael Windish, drummer
of what I have in the last 20 for Chubby Checker, Professional
years, when I do something, I jazz drummer Bob Meyer and Alan
go all out. I have tried to seek “Sticky” Wickett from London and
out the rarest examples, and I have done some videos together
the finest examples that I can on sound effects, and he loves the
afford. museum. And of course Steve Smith
MD: That is the great thing has been in a few times and he loves
about this place, who wants to come and actually play in the
to look at an old slide- style of the vintage drums. Steve
whistle, or train effect box. has filmed several videos here at the
Those instruments, and the museum playing these vintage drum
drums are meant to be heard sets. Playing in the style of the 1920s
and played! and 30s isn’t as simple as it seems.
TN: I already had four or five You were really playing in that style
Tim and Steve Smith at the museum on his very first visit.
1920s sets, and I loved all when you were playing my sets.
of the musical gadgets, traps, and sound effects that accompanied MD: How can you not? Playing these drums is fascinating because
those sets: the temple blocks, the ratchets, the whistles, etc. you hardly have to hit them, they just sing. You don’t have to play
However, after I bought a huge collection of drums, I moved hard, and you don’t have to pull the sound out of them. They
everything into my antique gallery. Soon there just wasn’t enough respond to the lightest touch.
room for the antiques, so I moved the antiques to the second floor I’ve always been intrigued by the parallels between the drumset
of my gallery and the main floor became a drum showroom for my and American history. While people have come from around the
collection. The building that houses this magnificent collection is world to create the melting pot of the United States of America,
actually my grandparent’s restored 1800’s dairy barn, the farmhouse different instruments have come from around the world to create
and barn have been in the family for 80 years. the drumset. While each separate component of the drumset
I had a chance encounter with Steve Smith and I happened to originated elsewhere, the set of drums was assembled here in
tell him about my collection and he wanted to see all of the drums. roughly 1890.
I organized and displayed everything that I had because Steve was The drumset is believed to be first played by New Orleans
coming to the showroom. While he was here, he played everything, drummer Dee Dee Chandler. The drumset is the only instrument
and we started a nice friendship. When he was leaving, he signed created in the US. In my opinion, the drumset IS the United States.
a drumhead for me, and wrote that I had a “great museum!” I By visiting the museum, you can see the evolution of the entire
hadn’t ever considered that I had a museum worth of old drums drumset. You can see how it was put together piece by piece

Display case of vintage traps,
sound effects, whistles,
ratchets, temple blocks,
wood blocks, cowbells, and
a collection of vintage bass
drum pedals.
starting in around 1890 and

progressing through the
modern drumsets of today.
You even have an actual drum
from the Civil War that would
pre-date the drumset, and a
few other significant drums that
correspond to US history too.
TN: A customer brought me
an attic find drum because she
knew I was also a drummer. It
is from the Pittsfield Militia and
made by the Stevens Drum
Company in 1840. It even has
the original sticks. You can tell
it is a Civil War drum because
the owner signed and dated the
inside September 1, 1862. That is Bailey Circus and earlier in the Minstrel shows. Those are important
the actual date that Pittsfield Massachusetts mustered out a militia facets of US entertainment. I have his drum here, it is a Leedy 15” 16
for a battle in Virginia and North Carolina. That means this drum lug snare drum. Inside the case was the Ringling Brothers itinerary
actually saw battle in the Civil War. The next owner was a military from 1929. That is a significant drum in drum history and US history.
drummer named Corey Thornton who signed and dated the inside MD: People forget about the importance of the drumming gigs with
of the drum in 1898. the circus. I know that Papa Jo Jones played with Ringling Brothers,
The P.G. Lowery Band played in the Ringling Brothers Barnum and and there were others.
1951 Slingerland Radio King set with original calf heads! Tim 1968 Slingerland Buddy Rich model kit, original BR music
calls this his Gene Krupa style kit. stand, Radio King snare drums, painted head trap kits.

as the original owner played it 100 years ago. I have a
kit like that from a drummer named Bill Boswell from
Pennsylvania, he used that kit to open for Artie Shaw
in the 1940s.
MD: You have some really rare stuff here. Tell me about
your rarest of the rare?
TN: The trap table on the Slingerland Glass Glitter kit
is the only one of its kind that I know of. No one else
has one of those original trap tables. The Ludwig Solo
Blocks are almost non-existent outside of here. The
W&A double hi hat stand from the 1940s is also very
rare. There is actually a picture of Gene Krupa and
Avedis Zildjian at the Zildjian factory with one of those
double hi hat stands testing out cymbals. Both Krupa
and Buddy Rich used Walberg & Auge hi hat stands
throughout their careers, and Although Walberg &
Auge made most of the old hardware, they also made
beautiful drums.
I have two Slingerland Black Beauty snares, and
there are less than 20 of them in the world. One of
mine came from Canada, and one came from Florida
but was originally from Syracuse NY. The strange thing
is that three of the rarest things that I have came
from Syracuse NY. In the 1930’s there must have been
a really high-end Slingerland drum dealer around
Syracuse NY. The Slingerland Sea Foam Green kit, the
Slingerland Green Glass Glitter kit with the trap table,
and one of the Black Beauty’s all came from Syracuse.
The Duplex afterbeat drum is a cool and rare
little drum that has a brush attached. I found a 1940s
Leedy Rimshot Gadget that was still in the box. Don
McCauley saw it on my website and wanted to get
it for Charlie Watts for his birthday. Believe it or not,
Charlie didn’t have one, and he loved that type of
thing. I wanted to give it to Charlie in person, and
because of COVID, that never happened.
MD: Charlie would have loved your museum. Can you
walk us through the evolution and history of the high
hat cymbals and stands that you have here?
TN: It all started with the bock-a-da-bocks. That is a
hand-held contraption that held two small cymbals
View from “the driver’s seat” on a vintage 1936 Leedy trap set, Ludwig
that you clapped together by hand or played with a
Mountain & Lake scene trap set, Leedy Ship Silhouette, early W&A trap set.
stick. That evolved into the Billy Gladstone designed
Gladstone Cymbals that Chick Webb used. They
TN: My museum is based around American drums, a great deal of
were made by the Frank Wolf company in New York City. Then
what I have comes from the time period between 1927 to 1939.
there were a bunch of bass drum mounted hand cymbals from the
What I have started to do is get the old Ludwig, Slingerland, Leedy,
1930s that created a sound that is impossible to reproduce with
and Gretsch catalogs and recreate the pages from the catalog
any modern instruments or
into real life sets. I really
hardware. The actual hi hats
enjoy what I call my “Come
started with the Charleston
to Life Catalog Kits.” I go
pedal. I have a few Ludwig
to painstaking lengths to
Charleston’s, and I even have
recreate and set up the
a George Stone Charleston,
EXACT kits that were
which is probably the only
pictured in the old catalogs.
one of its kind. I have several

I even have a few time-
capsule kits that I have Showcase of vintage
bought from drummers’ Chinese toms, Temple
families. I really enjoy blocks, Charleston Pedals,
getting the old pictures Bock-a-da-bocks, Gladstone
of the original owners Cymbals, Rare Duplex
playing their kits and having afterbeat, Slingerland
everything set up exactly Duncan Pedal , etc.

of the Walberg & Auge Low Boy’s. Then we finally get to the
many versions of what we know as the “modern” hi hat and
the double hi hat stand.
MD: It was a pretty long evolution to finally get there. You
don’t really get into the cymbals much, do you?
TN: Most of my cymbals are old Zildjian A’s, I have a few K’s.
The important thing to me is that I have outfitted every kit
with the proper sounding cymbals. I do have some very nice
thin 13” A’s on a Leedy kit. I don’t have any 1950’s little bebop
Gretsch kits that would need a big old K. I’m not an old K nut.
There are so many great drummers who are collecting old
K’s, I’ll let them do their thing and spend $3000 a piece on
old K’s. All of us drum collector-historians have our niche’. I
have tried to focus on (primarily) a specific era of drums and
drummers that forged a path in drumming and music.
MD: You also have a nice evolution of the bass drum pedals,
what can you tell me about that evolution.
TN: Along the way there have been some really unique
variations on what we now call the bass drum pedal. It
started with the overhang pedal, and then that pedal was
adapted to also hit a cymbal with an attached “clanger.”
Then there was a pedal that did that, but would dampen the
cymbal on the backstroke of the pedal. It just kept evolving
and getting better.
MD: What is the weirdest drum that you have come across?
TN: I have a “Barry” collapsable bass drum. That is a set from
the 20’s in which everything was self-contained in a case.
The bass drum folds out, and it was designed to fit a 3”
snare drum that fits inside the bass drum, the heads actually
folded up in quarters so they didn’t last long. That’s a pretty
weird drumset.
MD: That’s amazing because the super compact busking
mini kits are very popular again now.
TN: There’s not much new under the sun.
1930s Leedy Spiderweb Girl trap set with Leedy elite engraved snare
MD: In a special room adjoining your office you have two
drum, China tom, Charleston pedal.
special sets that (compared to the rest of the kits) are more
“modern.” What can you tell me about the two Slingerland
Those kits never had snares or cymbals with them, just the kit. My
white marine pearl kits in that room.
Buddy kit was given to a lucky kid who came to a Vegas drum clinic
TN: That’s my Buddy and Krupa room.
that Buddy did, or at least that’s what was told to me. The snare is
MD: What is the story behind the Buddy kit?
a snare that Slingerland gave to Buddy on his 60th birthday, and
TN: That is a 1968 Buddy Rich kit, I bought that kit from Las Vegas
rumor has it that Buddy didn’t like it. Steve Smith owned it for a
music store. The story goes like this. A woman brought this kit in and
while, and he recently gave it to the museum, along with one of
said that Buddy had given it to her son. Buddy was in town doing
Buddy Rich’s monogrammed shield music stands. I also have a 24”
two nights in a casino,
bass drum case from when Buddy’s
and Slingerland wanted
band was called the Buddy Rich
him to do a clinic at a
Orchestra (circa 1945-48,) after he left
store for the local kids
Tommy Dorsey.
and drummers. They
MD: Tell me about the kit that sits next
weren’t going to tear
to the Buddy kit?
down his kit from the
TN: That is a Krupa STYLE kit. It is
casino gig just to do a
a Slingerland 1951 White Marine
clinic and have to bring
Pearl Radio King kit with a 24, 13, 16,
it right back for that
outfitted with original Radio King
night’s show, so the store
calf heads. I bought that kit from
supplied another kit for
the original owner in Florida, and I
Buddy to do the clinic. It
is said that Slingerland
insisted that all of their Collection of 1930s painted
dealers keep a Buddy kit head trap sets, Leedy Moonlight
in stock for the instance Silhouette, Spider Web Girl,
that Buddy was in town Walberg & Auge Mountain Stream
and wanted to do a clinic. scene trap kit.

garbage. She gave him, and when he opened it, it was this
Slingerland Black Beauty.
I have a Frank Wolf Sea Green Pearl snare drum that is a
12 lug over 6. That’s the kind of snare drum that Chick Webb
played, that is a rare color and a cool drum.
I have a wall full of Radio Kings and Broadcasters. I have
a very rare Slingerland Broadcaster that was only made for
a year because Gretsch had a drum called a Broakcaster. The
Slingerland Broadkaster is a solid maple drum with a Walnut
Veneer wrap which is a
1930 Ludwig Peacock Pearl rare finish as well, and it’s
trap set with Millstream in mint condition. Then
painted head, Leedy Butterfly Slingerland got sued
Silhouette trap kit with Leedy and changed the drum
elite engraved snare drum, name to Radio King. I also
Framed painted drum head on have some new and old
wall by listed American artist Ludwig Black Beauty’s to
Lorenz Griffith (1889-1968.) show how that drum has
evolved.
MD: Can you talk about
the differences between all of the different Black Beauty’s?
TN: The Slingerland’s are the rarest.
MD: Are the Slingerland’s two-piece shells with the closed
chamber bearing edges? That’s what really contributes to the
amazing sound of those 1920’s Black Beauty drums.
TN: I think so, and I agree. We weighed the Slingerland and
the Ludwig Black Beauty
Showcase with traps, shells and the Slingerland
vaudeville and silent film was substantially heavier.
sound effects like whistles, My first 20s Ludwig Black
wood blocks, cowbells, Chinese Beauty was a 1929 with
temple blocks and toms, Rare a professional strainer. I
Duplex Afterbeat, Slingerland bought it from the guy
Duncan Pedal, hand cymbals who played in New York
including bock-a da-bocks, in the We Three Orchestra,
Gladstone cymbals and a and I bought his entire
collection of vintage bass drum set. I just got a 1920s 4x14
pedals. two-piece Dance Model
ten lug, and a 5x15 eight
restored it. I have to say again, that is NOT a kit that was owned by
lug, neither has engraving, I’m cleaning up both of those. The 15
Krupa, but it is the same model, sizes, and heads that he played in
came from my college drum instructor Rene Prinz through my high
the 40’s on “Sing, Sing, Sing.”
school music teacher Tom Slavinsky, so that’s a very special drum
On a related subject there is a caveat that I have to say for
to me. John Aldridge engraved a newer one for me, and I have the
something else in my collection. I have a 1941 Top Hat and Cane kit
Ludwig 100th Anniversary, and a laser engraved one as well. The
that Jack Lawton actually rewrapped that before I got it. The drums
modern Black Beauty’s are a completely different drum from the 20s
are authentic, but the Top Hat and Cane is a rewrap.
ones. The sound is different, the construction is different.
MD: You have some other more “modern” kits as well.
MD: Personally, I think there is something “extra” in those old Nickel
TN: I have a nice 1960’s Slingerland Capri Pearl set, and a nice red &
over Brass shells, I don’t know if it’s in the metal, or if it’s in the
silver sparkle banded kit in 20, 12, 16 from the 60s. I do have an aqua
unique construction, but there is NOTHING like them!
marine pearl Ludwig kit from the 60’s that is like a Ringo kit, it’s just
TN: I also have a Slingerland Rolling Bomber and a Ludwig Victory
not the exact same color.
snare. They are both in mint condition. They were wartime drums
MD: You have mentioned the Slingerland Black Beauty’s, what other
that had mostly wooden parts and wooden lugs instead of metal,
snares do you have?
because during the war metal wasn’t allowed to be used. Those
TN: There’s a lot, but let’s start with those. The Slingerland Black
drums sound fantastic. Probably the best sounding snare in the
Beauty’s were in the 1928 catalog, and by the time the next catalog
whole collection is a 1960s Slingerland Artist 5.5 solid maple shell
came out, they were no longer made. At one time there was
with a Zoomatic strainer, that is just a fantastic sounding drum.
believed to be only 10 in existence. However, (collector) Jim Messina
MD: Have you gotten into restoring drums. Did some of your kits
just kept discovering more of them. Bob Campbell (who is the Black
need a lot of restoration?
Beauty expert) and I each bought one from Jim, and then I found
TN: Sometimes the hand-painted bass drumheads need some
another one in Canada. That seller was a schoolteacher, and he
restoration, but I really try to buy things that are in mint condition. I
contacted me. A woman’s father had died, and she knew that this
clean everything and I’m pretty meticulous about that.
schoolteacher played drums. She asked him if he would want her
MD: When you clean up a drum, what is your cleaning restoration
father’s drum, otherwise she was just going to put the drum in the

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process? it. They appeared in the catalog but were reportedly never made. I
TN: I take the drum apart completely and polish the shell with think I know where one might exist. Bun E Carlos has said that’s THE
Mothers Polish. (Of course) I install a calf head on the top, but I holy grail of drums. I am looking for two different Leedy & Ludwig
have stopped using slunk heads on the bottom, they are just too painted heads called Balloon Dancer and another called Forest Fire.
temperamental with the weather. I don’t like the old corded snares, I just got a Peacock Pearl kit. I have wanted one of those for a
I actually prefer the Snappy snares from the 20s and 30s. They have while, but every one that I found was faded. The one I just bought
brass wires, and they are easy to set up, and they sound great. And had been in a basement it’s whole life, so it’s perfect.
IF you really know how to tune a snare drum, you don’t have to even MD: Where did the nickname “Two Fer Tim” come from.
engage the muffler. In fact, snare drums from the 1920-30’s didn’t TN: I like to have two of everything.
even have mufflers! MD: Why?
MD: Aside from drums, you have a whole cabinet of sound effects TN: If you have two of something you always have something to
from the old silent movie and vaudeville days. barter with for something that you don’t have.
TN: I have tons of whistles MD: That’s a great answer!
both wooden and metal. I have TN: It’s the joy of the hunt.
whistles to make every species MD: How do people arrange to
of bird call that you can imagine. visit your museum?
The vaudeville drummers had TN: Come to Oneonta New
a trap table filled with various York, we are really close to
sound effects to create the Cooperstown and the Baseball
sounds of gun shots, horses Hall of Fame. I am open by
galloping, or glass breaking. I appointment Monday through
have a Ludwig Railroad Imitator Friday, and people can bring their
that was made in 1927. That is a camera, recorders, whatever. For
box that creates the exact sound those that can’t do an in person
of a train rolling down the tracks visit, I am starting a paid Zoom
complete with various whistles, session at somewhere around $25
and something that made the a half hour. In that half hour (or
sound of the clanging of metal more,) I will show you anything in
tracks. the museum that you want to see
MD: Did Ludwig make a lot of and I’ll go into as much detail as
those old sound effects? Who the virtual visitor wants.
has researched and collected all MD: Zoom is nice, but as I said
of the sound effects besides you, before, I’ve been to most of the
that is almost as fascinating a musical museums around the
subject as the drums. world, and (for drummers) there is
TN: Ludwig & Leedy made NOTHING as cool as yours!

some. However, Walberg & Auge TN: There is probably no other
probably made most of them, place in the world that anyone
and then Ludwig would just can come and play drums like
put a Ludwig decal on the W&A these in this environment. The
manufactured stuff. Nothing drums are all set up, tuned, with
sounds like those original sound the proper accoutrements, calf
effects. heads, and era-correct cymbals
There is a sound effects expert in a great sounding room. Sure,
named Nick White from Chicago, you could slap together a half-
he is the master of sound effects. assed collection of old drums to
Nick actually just appeared in simulate one of these sets, but
a movie by Martin Scorsese. these are professionally curated,
There is actually a revival of Original trophy from the 1941 Gene Krupa Swing contest won maintained, and are exactly as
silent movies going on in our by Louie Bellson, Joe Raynor won second place, photos, letters they appeared in the original 20s
country, and Nick appears at from the Slingerland Company to Joe. and 30s catalogs, and they are
showings with an organist sitting right here waiting to be
and does the sound effects to Snare drums (from top, left to right:) 1929 5" Ludwig engraved played (by anyone!!!)
the silent films. His website is Black Beauty, 1928 RARE 5" Slingerland engraved Black Beauty,
vintagepercussionsoundeffects. 1920s scroll pattern Ludwig engraved Black Beauty, 1920s To see more about this museum,
com Leedy Elite engraved Black Beauty, Ludwig 100th anniversary go to www.northupdrums.com
MD: Is there anything that you (2009) engraved Black Beauty, 1990s Ludwig Black Beauty Northup Drums Museum 191
are still looking for, that you don’t engraved by John Aldridge, 2000 Millenium Ludwig limited Cemetery Hill Rd Oneonta, NY
have, any holy grails? edition 65/100 Birdseye Maple w/ gold hardware, 100th 13820. 607-434-4769.
TN: A 4x14 Slingerland Black anniversary (2009) laser engraved Black Beauty, 1920’s 4"
Beauty! Supposedly there is one Ludwig nickel over brass 10 lug dance model, 1927 5" Ludwig
out there, and I’m trying to get Super nickel over brass .

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A
Carmine
Appice:
5 0 Ye a r s
of Being
Realistic
By Mark Griffith
T his year will mark the 50th anniversary MD: In 1972 why did a guy who helped invent rock drumming, was
touring with Cactus, playing with Jeff Beck, and had huge success
of Carmine Appice’s influential book with Vanilla Fudge, decide to write a drum book?
CA: I was playing with Cactus at the time, and I was home between
Realistic Rock. Modern Drummer has been
tours. I walked into the Sam Ash store in Hempstead NY, I always
featuring some excerpts from the updated looked at the book section when I went into stores. This was in 1971
when we all looked like hippies. I saw a book on the shelf from Joel
version of this book (The Ultimate Realistic Rothman. It said, “Learn to play rock drums,” and had a guy on the
Rock) throughout the year and this will cover with an Elvis Presley style haircut. I looked at the material
and it seemed sort of stupid. It had every mathematical version of
continue with some of the more complex playing a measure of time that was possible. I knew that no rock
sections. But we wanted to ask Carmine drummer would ever play like that, and I decided on the spot, I had
to write a book on rock drumming.
about the origins of this classic book, what MD: At the time were there any other books out on rock drumming?
went into writing it, and what makes it such CA: Not that I could find. That’s why I did it. During the Cactus tours,
the nights were usually pretty crazy, so I decided to forgo all of the
a great book. craziness and write Realistic Rock while we were on tour. At the time,

I also had a teaching studio on Long Island. I had 50 or 60 drum CA: I started out simple. I started with grooves that I played when
students, so while I wrote the book, I was testing it on my students, I started playing drums. I grew up playing R&B. I loved the music
and I saw that it worked! coming from Motown, Stax, Atlantic, and Muscle Shoals. I listened
MD: I love the way that the book is notated, it’s very easy to read. to Wilson Pickett, James Brown, Aretha Franklin, all of that stuff. I
CA: I designed it like the Chapin book. It has three lines (RH on the learned later that I was listening to a lot of Bernard Purdie (I just
ride or hi hats, LH on the snare, and RF on the bass drum.) That didn’t know it at the time.) I fashioned my fills from Max Roach’s
makes it easier on the eyes. It was spiral bound, easy to read, in melodic fills. The very first cool groove that I ever heard was played
fact you really didn’t even have to know how to read music to get by Dino Danelli. He was playing a shuffle with a funky bass drum
started. part. It killed me! All of that is incorporated in the book.
At the time I had an attorney that was representing Jimi Hendrix, My goal was that after someone had finished my book, they
Zeppelin, Vanilla Fudge, and Cactus, everybody. He got me a book would be prepared to go out and play in a rock band. You didn’t
deal with a big publisher called Big Three Publishing, but he didn’t have to be a great reader or go through every mathematical way to
sell the copyright. I didn’t even know what that meant back then. play a rock beat to play in a rock band. I didn’t write every variation
But it meant that I owned the book and they distributed it. In that of sixteenth note rhythms and grooves, I wrote grooves and fills that
first year, it sold about 3,000 copies, which honestly didn’t impress you would realistically play in a rock band.
me. But I told Joe Morello about that when we were doing a Ludwig I learned to play from the Jim Chapin book, Stick Control,
Symposium together, and he told me that was huge. He told me Syncopation, and the Charles Wilcoxin book. So all of those books
that his book had been out for three years or so and it had sold are included in almost every book that I write, and every note that I
2,500 copies, so in his opinion selling 3,000 in a year was fantastic. play. That’s my foundation.
After a few years when my initial contract was up, and because MD: Those are all very jazz oriented books. How else did you absorb
I had retained the those three important books into
copyright, I could go Realistic Rock?
elsewhere and get CA: I think those three books are the
another distribution most important drum books ever
deal, so I went to Almo written. The “idea” of the Chapin book
Distribution. But they and developing four-way coordination
DIGIT
told me that I would DOW
NLO AL
AD
INSID CODE
E
is throughout Realistic Rock. When I
be the publisher. I younger and playing with R&B bands I
didn’t like that because used the stuff from Syncopation in my
I didn’t want to deal grooves, so I took those Syncopation
with the price of paper, inspired grooves and included them in
getting deals from the earlier part of Realistic Rock. I used
printers, and stuff like some of the stickings (like paradiddles
that. I just didn’t want and paradiddles with the diddle in the
to be bothered with middle) from Stick Control. I was already
that stuff. We changed playing them subconsciously, but then
the cover to the Maple I used them in the book in the “Four
Ludwig kit and moved Bar Breaks” section. I found that if you
to Warner Brothers, combine some of those Stick Control
and I got a big advance stickings with the different rhythms with
from them. After six the left foot (hi hat) you get some really
months I had paid back cool grooves with hi hat barks, and it just
the advance and I was happens automatically. I expanded on
getting royalties. The that concept in Realistic Rock. The stuff
book just kept selling. from Stick Control applies to everything!
When I went on tour There isn’t a lot of Wilcoxin stuff in
with Beck, Bogert, and Realistic Rock, but I did incorporate
Appice I took some on some of the Wilcoxin stuff into my later
the road and sold them Rudiments to Rock book.
at the merchandise MD: It sounds like everything flowed
table. No drummers very naturally and easily between the
were doing that at the playing with Vanilla Fudge and Cactus,
time. The last year that I was at Warner Brothers was when (Modern the teaching in your studio, and the books. Through all of that, I
Drummer president) David Hakim was there and it sold 12,000 think you helped write the blueprint for all of us “drummers who
copies. also teach” to learn from and build careers in modern drumming.
Then I started to learn about the great drummers who had gone And personally, I have to thank you for that.
through the book. I was told that Dave Weckl, Gregg Bissonette, and CA: There were a few problems though. The first one was that I
Joey Jordison had all gone through it, and they are all great players. was taught playing traditional grip. The first six years of playing
MD: When I was researching Taylor Hawkins for his tribute issue, I drums I only played traditional grip. Eventually, whenever I had
learned that he had started in your book too. Where did the grooves to pound things out with Vanilla Fudge I would play matched
that you wrote come from? Were they grooves that you were grip, and whenever I played something technical, I would switch
playing in Cactus and had played in Vanilla Fudge? to traditional. But when I was teaching from 1971 through ’73, I

decided to force myself to do everything with matched grip, the CA: I was one of the first rock star drummers. So when I wrote a rock
pounding and the technical stuff. That meant that while I was drumming book, it was realistic. It wasn’t written by a drum teacher,
testing out my book on my students, I was also testing myself and or a jazz drummer. Realistically, I’m a rock drummer, so when I
teaching myself matched grip. I did use the Wilcoxin book to help wrote a book, it was Realistic Rock. By calling everything “Realistic”
me improve my matched grip. I was creating a brand. Then we updated it with more information,
MD: I did the exact same thing. I never really started playing now with even more information, it’s The Ultimate Realistic Rock.
matched until I started teaching as well. MD: Exactly what inspired the linear section?
CA: Another problem arose for me. Every time I changed drum CA: Rick Gratton sent me his book called Rick’s Licks, and when I
companies, I had to change the cover of the book. Therefore, tried to read through it, I really couldn’t follow it. The way it was
starting in the 90s I used an oil painting of me playing that my written was very confusing to me. Rick and I did a clinic together
ex-girlfriend did as the cover. It’s similar to the drawing from the up in Canada, and when I saw what he was doing I told him that
original cover. When Alfred publishing took over from Warner we should release a video together with my video company. I told
Brothers, I saw a decrease in sales, but I kept adding to the book. him that his stuff was cool, but the way he explained it was just too
I did a video for the book, I added a linear section, an odd time complicated. We did a video together, but I helped him break down
section, and now we have The Ultimate Realistic Rock. The original his ideas to make them more understandable.
book was about 60 pages, and now it’s 95 pages or so. In the process, I came up with the Linear Rudiments: RLF, RLLF,
MD: With the many additions it’s stayed current and modern. RLRRF, RLRLRF. Groups of three, four, five, and six notes. Then you
CA: It was always my intention that after someone went through it, combine different combinations of them to create groups of 16
they could play in a rock band. So with the popularity of jazz-rock (one bar of sixteenth notes) and put them all over the drums. I just
and progressive rock I had to make additions. When drummers clarified Rick’s ideas and made them easier to learn. Then I began
started playing all of the combinations of linear ideas in fills, I had playing those ideas in clinics and on gigs. I saw how well they
to add that stuff too. worked in a “realistic” setting. Then I incorporated those ideas into
MD: Did the original version have a double bass drum section. The Ultimate Realistic Rock book.
CA: Yes, it had a small section on double bass. But I’ve added to it MD: Because they became “Realistic.”
through the years, and then I did the Realistic Double Bass book. CA: Rick and I have since become very good friends.
MD: Where did the word “Realistic” come from? MD: There are a few things that I really like about the book. I liked

that you put in a shuffle section. CA: If you can feel a four-bar phrase without counting it, that’s a
CA: In Cactus, we played a lot of shuffles, we were a great shuffle huge thing! That’s why the longer solos from my book are 8, 12, 16,
band. The tune “Parchment Farm” was a fast double bass drum 20, and 24 bar solos.
shuffle. And at the time, it was the fastest one on record. When MD: That’s what I’m saying. And each of the lines when you are
we recorded that tune, we wanted it to be faster than “I’m Coming learning a groove in your book is written as four bars.
Home” by Ten Years After. Alex Van Halen said the inspiration for the CA: Like I said, the ability to hear four bars is HUGE. Believe it or not,
tune “Hot for Teacher” was “Parchment Farm” because they loved no one has ever mentioned that to me. That’s a great observation
Cactus. If I were to update that section, I would include ruffs in the by you.
middle of them. In the tune “Blue Murder” I do a lot of that. MD: I’d like to pass a law that no beginner or intermediate music
MD: You have an interesting concept and origin behind playing books should ever have any examples or solos that are not written
double bass, can you explain that to me? with four bar phrases in mind.
CA: When I was young, I always wanted to play double bass, but I CA: I have had a lot of students throughout the years, and I don’t
couldn’t afford a second bass drum, think anyone has every picked up on
or a mic stand with a boom. Then
when I eventually got a second bass When I wrote a rock that fact. You make a GREAT point!
That’s unbelievable, I never really
drum, I really didn’t know what to thought about that.
do with it.
MD: There were no double bass
drumming book, it was MD: At some point, it’s really the most
important thing! Feeling a phrase in
drum books at the time.
CA: NONE! I started to adapt realistic. It wasn’t written music, playing in phrases… Beyond
time and groove, it doesn’t get more
playing melodic Max Roach fills important than that.
onto two bass drums. But for beats
and grooves I didn’t know how to
by a drum teacher, or a jazz CA: I agree, especially if you are
playing in a band! It will help you
use the two bass drums. However, I
was already playing grooves while drummer. Realistically, I’m create a musical drum part that goes
somewhere sensible and musical.
my left foot played quarter notes or Whether you are playing in 7/8, 9/8,
eighth notes on the hi hats. Since I
was already playing those rhythms
a rock drummer, so when I or 4/4, you are usually thinking in four
bar phrases.
with my left foot, I just moved my
left foot to the bass drum, and wrote a book, it was called MD: You also suggested open handed
playing in your books, although it
Realistic Rock.
got some really cool grooves and wasn’t called that. You just suggested
sounds. When you played the &’s that people play the RH rhythms with
on the left foot it really got weird. the LH on the ride or hi hat. What
That was my original concept of inspired those suggestions?
using two bass drums. Then I started adding things to those initial CA: Seeing Billy Cobham. I knew he was a righty, and sometimes he
three ways of using the left foot on the bass drum. That wasn’t what played righty and sometimes he played lefty. So I started doing that
Ginger Baker or Keith Moon were doing with double bass drums, so too. Then I suggested it in the book.
my thing had a different sound. MD: Again, it became “Realistic” right?
MD: What inspired you to put the odd time stuff into the book? CA: For a while everything was about my teaching. I would go
CA: I loved it. Joe Morello was the guy that I first heard playing to concerts, and I would film them from behind for my teaching
odd times. When I heard “Take Five” I was floored so I learned to studio. Many different drummers let me do this because we were
play that solo. I learned all of my odd time stuff from Joe Morello. friends. Once a month I would have video day at my studio. I would
Then when I heard the Mahavishnu Orchestra with Billy Cobham. show these videos to a room full of students. Then we would talk
That was it for me, it blew my mind. By listening to them I figured about it, and I would teach them how to play what they saw.
out that when you play quarter notes in 9/8 the quarter note flips MD: As someone who has taught your book for years, do you have
around from the downbeat to the upbeat in every other measure. any advice for other drummers who are using your book to teach?
I started playing a lot of odd time music with Jeff Beck, and I did CA: I would suggest that you teach it like it is written. If you go
a lot of it with a band I had with Jeff Berlin and Ray Gomez. Even through (or have a student go through) the 18 different ways to go
with Guitar Zeus there is some odd time stuff, and there is a lot of it through the book, you’re ready to rock. You can add other stuff to
on my new Appice Perdomo Energy Overload recordings. make things more complicated if you want, or to develop another
MD: There is something else that I really like about your book, sense of coordination. That’s fine. But those original 18 ways to
and it might seem “obvious,” (but unfortunately it isn’t.) You wrote mix up the right hand and left foot, and the left hand and the left
everything and have students play everything in four bar phrases. foot, all came from teaching in my studio and playing with Vanilla
That just makes musical sense. But people still suggest that Fudge and Cactus. They worked then, and they work now. That’s
students repeat exercises five or ten times in a row, which makes no what Realistic Rock and The Ultimate Realistic Rock is based on. My
musical sense. If, as a teacher, you can start a student to eventually concept has always been: Count it out loud, and play it out loud.
(and subconsciously) feel a four-bar phrase from day one, it will That approach works.
eventually help them play music. MD: And it’s “Realistic.”
CA: The Chapin book was written like that, so was Stick Control and CA: You’ve got it!
Syncopation.
MD: And Wilcoxin. That’s why they are classic and quality Check out Carmine’s Books and Drummer profile
educational books. page at moderndrummer.com

Mark Allee

The Daru Sessions:
The Evolution
of His Set-Up
By Mark Griffith
Modern Drummer is starting a new
series with Daru Jones called “The Daru
Sessions.” In these series of interviews,
Daru and I are going to dive deep into
several subjects. The first subject of
these talks is Daru’s unique drum set-up.
Daru Jones’s drumming is always evolv-

ing, and he is on the road again playing
with Jack White. His drumming on White’s
previous recordings Lazaretto, Blunderbuss,
Boarding House, and the newest Fear the
Dawn has been surprising to those who
have known him as primarily a hip-hop
styled drummer. Daru still brings a slick
hip-hop drumming approach (as can be
heard on his two newest projects, Daru
Jones Play the Breaks (Live at Layman,) and
Daru State of Mind. But Daru’s playing with
Jack White it is now further infused with
a hard rockin’ edge. This new ingredient
to Daru’s ever-expanding vocabulary, and
Jack White’s live setlist has inspired Daru’s
unique drum set-up to evolve even further.

Mark Allee
MD: You have always set your drums up in a very creative-unique about thinking, OK I am an amazing drummer and I am going to play
way, now with the new Jack White tour, your set-up has evolved even “my style” on anything that I play and with anyone whom I play. It
more. Where did your current set-up with Jack White come from? isn’t about that at all. That’s not the case. If you want a career you got
DJ: We are playing a lot of Jack’s older music from The White Stripes to play the music that is happening around you.
and The Dead Weather. We are also doing music from all of Jack’s On this new record there is a song that Q-Tip from A Tribe Called
older records. On Jack’s last record he jumped into the world of Quest raps. So I trigger his vocal track. There is another tune called
sampling and looping as well. Some people might not know this, but “What’s the Trick?” with a lot of electronic sounds that I am triggering.
Jack’s a drummer, so he and is engineers are very tuned in to drum MD: What is your set-up for this Jack White tour?
sounds. For this tour the band learned about 100 songs from his back DJ: The drum sounds are really dialed in on this tour. The front of
catalog alone, then there was the stuff from of the new record which house engineer has done a great job getting huge drum sounds, and
I played on. On this record Jack was using different electronic sounds I am really trying to provide him with the accurate sounds from the
and samples of things like finger snaps too. So when you combine all record. To do that I have a 26” bass drum, my snare drum is a 15”, and
of that music with the angled drums that I have been doing for the I have some other custom toys that you can see in the photos.
last 15 years or so, there was a lot to incorporate in my touring set. MD: A 26” bass drum, that’s a lot of “boom.” But a big bass drum and
I was looking at rock drummers like Ray Luzier, Portnoy, Stewart small toms that’s interesting.
Copeland, John Bonham, Mitch Mitchell, and when Vinnie was play- DJ: Then I have some roto toms in 8, 10, and 12 as a shoutout to guys
ing with Sting. Those drummers all have these monster kits, and big like Stewart Copeland. I first saw Roto Toms in church and loved the
drums. So for this tour with Jack, I wanted to find my rock drumming way they sound and the way they looked.
voice, and throw in everything and the kitchen sink. I wanted to fuse MD: I first heard Roto Toms in go-go music in bands like Trouble
my traditional set with some pancake style drums, and the Roland Funk, Rare Essence, and Chuck Brown and the Soul Searchers.
electronic pads and the SPD. I have more Paiste Sound EFX cymbals, DJ: It was really cool when Terry Bozzio started using the parts of
and bells. I need to be able to play anything whenever Jack whispers Roto Toms and played them and called them Spoxe.
what song we are going to next in my ear. People are used to seeing MD: What cymbals are you using on this tour?
my play small drums, and some people seem to have a problem that DJ: My main ride is a 26” Giant Beat. The drum sound on the last Jack
I am out here playing a big kit and big drums, but Jack White is a rock White record is the closest thing to it was in the White Stripes when
gig, so I need to play a big rock kit. Meg was just bashing, there is a lot of that vibe on this new record,
MD: It’s all about the gig. If you are playing your drum and DJ gigs, so for that, the Giant Beat ride cymbal is my best friend.
you play an appropriate kit, and if you are doing Jack White’s rock Then I have a 14” Splash Stack, a 22” Precision China, an 8” and a
gig, you have to bring an appropriate kit. 10” bells, a Modern Essentials 22” that I am using for a crash, my hi
DJ: I like to pay attention to detail with sounds from his records be- hats are 16” Giant Beats.
cause I know that’s what the audience wants to hear. That means that MD: I have been a Paiste endorser since 2000, and I am guilty of not
I have to have instant access to all of those sounds from all of those knowing a lot about Giant Beats, but when they re-issued them and
bands and all of those records. So this set is the best of all worlds. I played them, I was in love. The 14” hats, the 18” and 20” crashes
This set incorporates sounds that I am incorporating stuff from my are just killer. They are great transparent cymbals, and they record
gospel roots, through my R&B and blues playing, to my hip hop stuff, amazingly.
rock music, and now the electronic music. MD: So when and why did you first begin to play the drumset at the
MD: So many people think that you play “your drumset” for the gig. extreme angles?
But what you are saying is that the gig determines what “your drum- DJ: In between Jack White tours I play other gigs like with my DJ and
set” actually is or should be. drum band and my rock hip-hop band called th1rt3en with rapper
DJ: The music is always supposed to tell you what to play. It’s not Pharoahe Monch. I use my small PDP signature travel kit for those.

That kit is an 18” kick, 13” snare, 10” and 14” toms. I use my signature There wasn’t a scientific reason that I started doing it, it was all for
Paiste cymbals for that too, I mix my DJ 45’s with the 22” Dark Energy looks and create an identity like Bozzio did with his sets, Vinnie with
ride cymbal for those gigs. his China cymbal on the left. I remember reading about all of those
For Jack White’s Lazaretto and Blunderbuss records and tours I drummers in Modern Drummer when I was coming up, and they all
used a 26” kick, a 16” snare. My tom and the marching snare were to had created an identity, and a unique drum set that people identified
the left of the hi hat, and my floor tom was in the regular place on with them.
the right. One issue with that set was that it was hard getting snare MD: So exactly when did your drumset with the extreme angles
stands to hold the 16” snare real securely. But I was setting up the start?
drums angled away from me on that tour. The only difference was for DJ: That started in 2006 when I was playing with hip-hop group
this tour I have all of the toms on my left, and all of my cymbals on called Slum Village.
the right, except the hi hat is on the left in the standard spot. MD: That was the group that J Dilla produced?
MD: Did you start to put all of the cymbals on the right because you DJ: Dilla died in 2006, and Slum Village had been invited to play
had seen some of the older English rock drummers do that? I know some festivals and big gigs that required having a live band. I was
that Bill Ward from Black Sabbath, and Charlie Watts did it for a while recommended to come on board as the drummer by their music
as well. director at the time. It was when I was living in Pittsburgh for a while,
DJ: I didn’t know that. All of my set-ups challenge me to be intention- playing with steel drummer Phil Solomon and his band, Solomon
al when I play something. When I hit any drum or cymbal, that sound Steel. When I started playing with Slum Village is when I changed
has to count. I want to really be intentional when I play. I never want my kit setup, because like I said, they were well-known, and doing a
to play a sound because it’s convenient, or because it just happens similar thing to the Roots at the time, and I wanted to steer clear of
to be there. I want to play a sound because that’s the sound that I Questlove’s thing.
want to hear. I also like to get more sounds out of a limited amount MD: When you made that change in your set-up, how did that affect
of drums. you playing?
I started touring with Jack White in 2012 after the Blunderbuss re- DJ: It helped me create a lot of new vocabulary, and that’s when I
cord. But before I started playing with Jack, I was playing with mostly really started paying attention to detail and thinking like a producer
hip-hop and rappers with artists like Talib Kweli and Black Milk. In behind the drums. I started to become a live MPC drummer. I played
fact, Black Milk is who introduced me to Jack. But when I was playing music so it not only sounded like the record, but it felt like the record.
with those guys I was using a small bare bones set-up with just kick, That meant being aware if a track was top heavy or bottom heavy.
snare, floor tom, hi hats and ride. That was a little after the time that I discovered that there was a way to play acoustic drums on a gig
Questlove had starting doing that, and I didn’t want my drums to and keep the integrity and the spirit of the original recording, even
look like Questlove’s. though it was made on an MPC. That’s what I focused on. I’m still
In the hip-hop community, even as a kid, it was all about identity. learning and developing, but I think that I’m starting to develop a
If you looked like anyone else in your look or your fashion you had drumming identity and voice.
problems. That stuck with me. So when I was learning to play drums MD: We’ll get into that next time!
I wanted to sound like Vinnie and Weckl and I had similar kits to
theirs. But I knew that I would have to develop my own drumming The Daru Sessions is the first of a four-part installment of Daru Jones
identity. When I was younger, I started playing with hip-hop bands discussing several specific subjects in music and drumming.
and I realized that I didn’t need a
big kit, so I downsized. I stripped
everything away, I was just using
that stripped down kit. But then
I saw Questlove playing with The
Roots. I didn’t want people to think
that I was copying Questlove, and
I never wanted to be in the same
room with him and have him think
that I was copying him. So I had
to figure out a way to create my
own identity, and that was when
the angles on the drums started.
Then of course I had to fine tune
my vocabulary to work on those
kits. I worked on that set-up and
my musical vocabulary to create a
musical identity.
I was aware of the OG’s who
used those extreme angles on their
drums first like Buddy Rich and
Philly Joe Jones. Although I know
Mark Allee
that they tilted their drums to the

side because of traditional grip, I
knew that I could take that inspi-
ration and use it in my own way.

CHRIS
LESSO
Life Through Rhythm
By Mark Griffith
C hris Lesso is a renaissance drummer: bandleader, sideman, clinician,

teacher… His studies with the great Dom Famularo and the legendary
Jim Blackley have helped him form a great foundation for his drumming
and his teaching. Chris’ playing with his band Modus Factor, Cirque Du
Soleil Cavalia, and his touring with Wild T and the Spirit (led by guitarist
Tony Springer,) shows his forward looking yet grounded drumming
approach, and his up-coming book will help any student become the
best version of themselves that they can be.
MD: Your new book is called Life Through Rhythm, what does that mean?
CL: Simply put, it’s believing in who you are, taking it to 2.0. Excellence. But it’s really more than that. My
new book and my podcast are both called Life Through Rhythm and they focus on the fact that everyone
has a voice, so let’s bring out that voice and release the confidence that your voice can help you create
within yourself.
The first chapter is called “Your Escape Velocity” and it discusses how you use most of your fuel to
“just” blast off. Another concept that I talk about is called Wrong and Strong. That deals with not being
afraid to make mistakes. I have a chapter called “How You Move is How You Groove” which discusses
body language and movement at the drums. The “Language of Drumming” chapter is about breathing,
being able to speak what you play, and being solid on the grid. I have an important chapter called “The
Rhythm of Practice.” I could write an entire book on that. “The Rhythm of Practice” discusses the inner-
meditation and the outer goals of practice, and just the art of practice in general.
MD: I often talk to students about HOW to practice. I think that’s an overlooked yet vitally important
subject.
CL: I agree! The entire book is tied up in the final chapter “Living LTR Every Day” which deals with
longevity. That chapter also deals with aligning your drumming movements with nature, stage fright,
disappointment, and presents it all in a way that shows how you can play drums until you are 105 and
beyond.
MD: What is your musical background?
CL: I started playing music by studying classical piano, but I was obsessed with drums. However,
the piano gave me so much that I would tap into later. Early on, I didn’t have any drum teachers, so I

wound up doing and learning a lot of stuff became my mentor-hero-teacher. He came to big five.
the hard way. When I was 19, I sought out Jim a small town in Canada and did a drum clinic MD: Does all of that come out in your band?
Blackley and Dom Famularo when I was 17. Dom and Jim Blackley are the CL: My band Modus Factor is a combination
MD: Jim Blackley was a legendary teacher, seeds of Life Through Rhythm. Victor Wooten is of world rhythms (Indian and African) and
and unfortunately most drummers (outside another important figure to me. He is as close electronica, so I am heavily influenced by
of Canada) don’t know about him. I was as it gets to Life Through Rhythm. But there everything that is included in those. But
introduced to him by (another great Canadian have been different drummers whose work overall, I love any music that is pushing the
drummer) Terry Clarke, but I never got to and words have really resonated with me. bar and exposing who YOU are. If something
study with Jim. I am studying both of Jim’s MD: Who? doesn’t have that spirit or spark, I’m not really
books (with some guidance from some of his CL: Billy Cobham, Benny Greb, and Steve interested.
students) what was that like? Smith. I also did a Life Through Rhythm MD: I see that you play open-handed, do you
CL: He was like a Freddie Gruber or a podcast on Vic Firth, he really exemplifies play open-handed all of the time?
Jim Chapin type of figure. Like a Yoda of what Life Through Rhythm is. CL: Yes, 100% of the time. I fell in love with it
drumming. His wife would always greet you MD: Vic Firth is an important man in this when I saw Dom playing at KOSA. I love the
at the door with a cup of tea. He just looked industry, and there are (I’m sure) some young feeling of it, and I love the body language
right into your soul. He was big into deleting drummers who don’t even know that he was and the mindset of open-handed playing.
things, focusing on less, and not chasing your a GIANT and a legendary musician. To many Of course, seeing Simon Phillips play open
(I guess,) he’s just the name on a stick. Peter handed is inspirational, but also seeing Steve
Erskine told me in his Legends interview (for Gadd, David Garibaldi, or Kenny Aronoff do it
his Legends book,) that the Boston Symphony once or twice a set is really inspirational too.
would sometimes tune to Vic. Former BSO But I also like the “weaker side” and the “split
bassist Buell Neidlinger told Peter that the down the middle” approach too.
entire orchestra built its pitch upon Vic’s It was amazing when I would teach it to
intonation. There could not be a bigger young students who were already playing
tribute to Vic’s ear, musicality, and the role of cross-handed. At first, I thought that I could
the timpani (and, by extension, the drummer) have been messing them up. But then I saw
in a “band.” their brains just flip the switch, and I knew it
CL: WOW… That’s amazing! We should just would be OK.
stop right there. MD: After hearing your record The Picasso
MD: Yes, that’s a pretty cool little (maybe not Zone, what more can you tell me about your
so little) fact. But please keep going about band Modus Factor?
your development. CL: I’m really proud of Modus Factor because
CL: After Jim and Dom, I became interested of two reasons. First, it’s something that I
in the tabla and Indian music. I knew Steve conceived and put together. I picked the
Smith was studying Konnakol, but I wanted musicians in the band because they sound
to feel the drums and get the rhythm in my like themselves. And second, it’s challenging
hands, so I started studying tabla with a guy because I am the “worst” one in the band.
in Toronto. Then I went to India to study Tabla. The other guys in the band really push me
I discovered the language of rhythm, and the to shoot for the next level because they are
wider view of rhythm as a voice. Drums are that good. I first heard about that idea from
an ancient power. Sure, the drumset has been Victor Wooten. He said, “Strive to always feel
around for only 100 years or so, but the drums like you’re the worst one in the band.” It’s
themselves go back thousands of years. meant with a bit of humor, not that you’re
MD: I sounds like you and I both believe in the literally “the worst” (which is negative and kills
greater power of the drums? confidence.) Instead, to feel like you really
CL: Absolutely. I have a student who is a have to deliver 110% and pull all of your
tail. The interesting thing about Jim is that retired military officer, and he suffered from potential out, by surrounding yourself with
there is a shelf-life of about two to five years a lot of PTSD from his years in Afghanistan, A-players.
of studying with Jim. At some point he calls and his drum studies are helping him with his It really all comes down to Bruce Lee for
you, and in his great Scottish accent he says, PTSD. me. His book was called The Art of Expressing
“Hello lad, do you have a pen, here is the On my podcast I have all sorts of guests. All the Human Body. He wanted to see who you
number of a great piano teacher named Brian of my different podcasts are about the drums, were through your motions. He invited people
Rudolph, he’s expecting your call, that’s what but they go beyond drumming. I have had to bring themselves into the martial arts. He
you need to do now.” And it wasn’t because David Rutherford on. He was a Navy Seal, and really broke down the traditions of his time.
you had done anything “wrong” it was sort of we talked overcoming fear and anxiety. I had That’s what I am trying to do with drumming.
a graduation. It happens to every one of Jim’s Mark Bowden on, and we analyzed the body MD: Be like water, right? (A common Bruce
students. language of drummers like Neil Peart, Stewart Lee expression.)
MD When you studied with him did you work Copeland, and Tony Williams. CL: That’s it!
from both books? MD: Stylistically, where are you coming from Check out Chris’s
CL: Yes, the rolls book, and the second giant as a drummer? Modern Drummer profile page
jazz book. I can still feel him, he was very CL: Carter Beauford, Jojo Mayer, Simon at moderndrummer.com
special. Then I started with Dom, and he Phillips, Tony Williams, and Lars Ulrich are my

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BASICS
The Game Changers Part 2

By Billy Ashbaugh
W elcome back for part two! Last month we discussed several

important topics that I felt were monumental in my growth
as a player. Those were: understanding subdivision, learning to
material. When you’re in this situation, only the things that you “own”
through muscle memory will show up. The more you record yourself,
the more you put yourself in “the hot seat “. Thanks to technology, re-
read music, developing your ears, and learning to write charts/ cording yourself is very easy these days. No more carrying around tape
roadmaps. Once I was able to understand and utilize these ideas, my decks and cables. Just pick up your phone and hit record.
playing took a huge leap forward. Trust me, it will do the same for you. One of my best practice tools is effective looping. This is my “go
If you missed it, please go back and check it out. to” process for getting comfortable with any new idea behind the
For this months article we will take a look at the four remaining kit. When done properly, there is no better method for settling in
topics: recording yourself and listening back, effective looping, and “owning” new or uncomfortable material. As we know, muscle
proper practice structure, and always using a metronome and memory is the only way to truly get comfortable with an idea. You can
counting. loop anything from one beat to an entire section of a song. The trick
Recording yourself and listening back is something I’ve been here is to isolate the trouble spots for efficient and effective looping.
doing almost as long as I’ve been playing. You want to get “in and out” of these spots as
I’m not sure why, but for some reason I just quickly as possible. By this I mean, create your
instinctively did this. I’m so glad I did. This loop so you don’t spend extra time playing
enabled me to hear how I was actually anything that you’re already comfortable
playing, not how I thought I was playing. with. If you’re working on a fill going into the
This was a real eye opener. I can remem- chorus, you don’t need to play eight measures
ber back in the day I would carry around of time prior to the fill. Try playing just one
old portable cassette decks. Sometimes I measure before the fill. Likewise, play just one
used the room mic on the unit and some- measure of time when you come out of the
times there were auxiliary audio inputs fill as well. This will set up your most effective
that I would use. It just depended on that looping. When you do this, you are spending
particular gig. If I was using microphones the most time possible on just the spot that
on my drums, then I would bring a mixer needs it. You’re no longer wasting precious
with a line out to record. This way I had practice time playing stuff that you’re already
better audio. If it was a smaller gig, then comfortable with. It may not seem like much,
I would just use the built in mic from the but it really ads up. The more frequently you
tape deck. Either way, I made it a point to play an exercise in any given amount of time,
always listen back to my performance. This the better your brain (and limbs) will settle
was a huge step toward me fine tuning my and “own” that idea. I use this technique with
playing and pocket. Simply put, the tape my students and it works great every time.
doesn’t lie. During my early gigs, I found it While preparing for a tour with ‘NSYNC, I
very difficult (if not impossible) to tell if my learned first hand how well this works. We
playing was really “on point” and sounded (the band) were learning a new song and the
good with the rest of the band. Back then bridge section just wasn’t feeling right. The
I was just too focused on the art of playing the drums. I simply wasn’t music director had us loop only the bridge for about ten minutes. Sure
able to “pull myself” out of the moment to accurately listen. The only enough, a few minutes into repeating the section, everything started
way to do that is by recording yourself and listening back. Sometimes to settle and it began to feel great. You see, we only played the bridge
my playing would sound much better than it “felt” at the time. And one time in the entire song, unlike the verse or chorus that were re-
sometimes it actually sounded as bad as I thought. Over time, I was peated several times throughout the song. By isolating and focusing
able to develop my ears to the point where I could tell in real time (as on just the bridge, we were able to achieve the same comfort level as
I’m playing) if something was off with my playing. This won’t happen the rest of the song. Once again proving this technique works great.
over night but it will happen if you put the time in. I would recom- One crucial lesson I learned years ago: You will perform at the
mend recording everything, practice sessions, band rehearsals, and comfort level you achieve in the practice room. Being aware of how
gigs. This way you have an honest assessment of your playing for the to best structure your practice time will help you get the most from
entire learning process, not just at the gig. Think of it this way, it’s your time invested. If you’re like me, you don’t have countless hours
better to expose and fix any problems in your playing in the “practice available to commit to practicing. So naturally it makes sense to struc-
room” before you get together with other musicians to play. ture your time so you can master those ideas as quickly as possible.
Another cool thing about recording yourself is what I call “the hot Here are a few tips.
seat”. That’s the nervous feeling you get when you know you’re re- Use a timer for your practice sessions. This will give you an honest
cording yourself to listen back. Often, I’ve been in situations where the assessment of exactly how much practice you’re actually doing. You’d
music director would record the band and then everyone would listen be surprised how much time you’re really “goofing off” during practice.
back and critique. Talk about the hot seat! The same feeling happens A good practice session should be nothing but struggling to achieve
in the studio when the engineer hits record and the little red light something new. If you can already play it, then you’re not practicing.
goes on. Having these nervous situations pull you “out of your zone” is It’s important to keep that in mind. What I do is warm up first for a few
a great way to find out exactly how comfortable you really are with the minutes. Then I set the timer for 30 minutes. Once I hit start on the

timer, I block all distractions out and bury my head in the exercise. The now more motivated and focused to practice because I get to work on
next thing I know, the timer is going off and I got 30 minutes of solid, what ever I’m interested in that day.
uninterrupted, practice. I have found that if I’m out in the studio for I also recommend separating your “hand time” from your “kit time.”
three or four hours during a day working on stuff, I actually get maybe It helps to have a separate space so you can focus on your hands
two or three hours of real practice time in. Before I used this approach, without all of the distractions that come with playing the kit (reading,
I would think I had gotten four or five hours of practice in, but the co-ordinating limbs, counting etc.) This uninterrupted hand time is
reality was I only got three. Big difference. So if you really want to keep crucial. It will allow you to concentrate on the fundamentals of your
track of how much practice you’re getting, grab that timer and hit grip before you jump behind the kit. Remember, the brain can only
start. You might be surprised! process so much information at once. It’s important to create a zone
Most drummers pick up the sticks to learn the art drumming and where you can do this. Set up a practice pad in a space that you can
to play music. For me, taking an idea from a book and playing it musi- get to anytime the urge strikes. It’s awesome to have 24/7 access to
cally involves different stages. That’s why I break my practice time into working on your grip and fundamental hand technique.
three areas. Each area requires a different mind set and also achieves Also, try jotting down notes for your practice routine. Back in the
different results. The first is what I call the “Grunt Stage”. This stage day, I would have six or seven books that I was working on at the same
is always first. Here, I’m discovering new ideas and often my head is time. It really helped me to jot down notes for every exercise. I would
buried in a book. I’m busy breaking things down, counting, repeating, mark where I was in the book, along with side notes for anything that
and basically trying to gain full control over my limbs. I’m constantly was giving me trouble. If I altered the exercise or phrased it differently,
struggling in this stage. This is what most people consider to be your I would also write that down. This way if I took a short break from any
“normal” approach to practicing. This is all fine and good but I soon of those books, I could come back later and pick up right where I left
discovered I needed to approach my new- off. Also, get in the habit of writing down the
ly found material in a different way.
For the next stage, I close the books,
While preparing for a tour with tempo for everything you do.
This leads us to the final subject. Always use
stop counting, turn off the bright lights ‘NSYNC, I learned first-hand how a metronome and count! Simply put, drum-
(for reading music) and sit with my new mers must have a good concept of steady time.
ideas with a different mind set. I call this well this works. We (the band) The only way to assure this is by practicing with
my “Exploring Stage”. Let’s look at this a metronome. That’s the true test to see if you
process. In other words, how is the idea
were learning a new song and have control over an idea. If you can lock your
broken down, what’s the subdivision, how
is it being phrased, where are the accents
the bridge section just wasn’t exercise with the metronome, then you own
that idea. I know metronomes can be intimidat-
falling, and what voicing’s are being used. feeling right. The music director ing in the beginning. However, if you’re patient
Then I take that idea and begin to move and work at it, over time you will be able to lock
it around the kit. You will be surprised had us loop only the bridge for everything you play with a metronome. Don’t
how many different ways you can play an be afraid to turn off the metronome if it’s giving
idea. Even if it’s as simple as moving to
about ten minutes. you too much trouble. Work more on controlling
the ride for a groove you just learned. Or that idea on its own, then re-introduce the met-
maybe adding a hi-hat part with your left foot. I’ve even discovered ronome until you’re able to stay with it. This is a great time to record
that a sticking pattern for a groove can make an awesome sounding yourself. (Sound familiar?) Listen back and try to determine if you’re
fill around the toms. The cool thing is, I’m now adding or altering the ahead or behind the beat. Quite often, just making yourself aware of
idea on my own. I’m no longer getting ideas from a book. These are a problem will fix the problem. If you’re recording and listening back,
creative ideas that I stumbled on myself through exploring. For me, you will know to “push or pull” those notes and get them to line up
this stage is a lot of fun. The trick is my mind set while doing this. I’m with the metronome.
no longer invested in learning this idea, I already did that in my grunt Lastly, let’s talk about the importance of counting. Think of count-
stage. My mind is now open to think creatively. The point is to inten- ing as the “rhythmic grid”. Your spoken voice will provide the perfect
tionally put yourself into this frame of mind. If you don’t put enough spot for each note to land. In the beginning, this can be difficult. Just
time in the grunt stage, this step will fail miserably. You need to have slow everything down and be patient. As long as you’re counting, it’s
complete control over your idea before your mind can open up and just a matter of time before your limbs start to line up. The good news
explore in this way. You should start to notice a whole new level of is, you will only need this skill when you are learning a new idea. Over
comfort as you do this. Your ideas should begin to flow and become time, your voice will go away. Think of it like training wheels for your
more musical. bicycle. Once you have your balance, it’s no longer necessary to have
This leads to the third stage: “Thinking Musically”. When I sit behind them. Likewise, take them off too soon and you’ll crash. It’s the same
the kit, the only thing I’m thinking about is the music. Technical stuff is thing with counting. Stop counting too soon and everything will fall
last thing on my mind. I’m never counting or thinking about anything apart. Eventually though, you’ll be comfortable enough to where your
I play. I do my best to get inside the music and play for the song. I let voice goes away and you begin to feel the rhythmic pulse internally. I
what I’m hearing in the song dictate what’s best to play. I have found know when I’m practicing and that happens, my new idea has settled
that if I don’t take my ideas through the first two stages, this step and I have good control over it. That’s always the goal.
doesn’t work. Not only do I need to have control over things, but I I hope you’ve enjoyed these two articles on the “Game Changers”
must also put the exploring time in before my mind can open up and that had a huge impact on my drumming. I feel they will do the same
play musically. for you. Everyone’s path to learning is different. The goal is to obtain
The best thing about this approach is I now have three areas I can as much skill as possible as we grow. The main thing is to enjoy this
choose from to dig into. Some days I might feel like doing the “grunt never-ending journey. Good luck!
work” and getting some new ideas down. Or, some days I might feel
like just exploring my ideas around the kit. Either way, the point is I’m
Check out Billy’s Modern Drummer profile page
at moderndrummer.com
CREATIVE PERCUSSION CONTROLERS
Sound Design Part 1

By Tony Verderosa
S ound Design is essential in the fields of musical instrument

development, live performance, video game development,
music production, theater, new media, post-production, virtual
original sound design. These include, but are not limited to, the use
of additive or subtractive synthesis, processing recorded source
material with hardware effects pedals, and manipulating source
reality/augmented reality and of course, filmmaking and television material in a computer based digital audio workstation such as
production. Most of you probably think of sound design in the Logic, Pro Tools, or Cubase.
context of epic film trailers and blockbuster Hollywood films. In this part of this series, we will explore the use of widely
Directors use sound design to enhance and elevate storytelling available, computer-based FX Plugins inside a DAW as a method
by carefully choosing sounds that create atmosphere, impact, and of creating unique soundscapes. Before we dive into DAW based
emotion. “sound manipulation”, let’s discuss some historical context for
In this month’s column, we will examine why sound design is sound design. “Sound Effects” have been in use since prehistoric
relevant and vital to the evolution of Creative Percussion Controllers times to convey various emotions. It was used in recreation as well
and Hybrid Drumming. We will narrow the focus and examine as religious healing practices. Plays and Theatrical performances
sound design through the lens of music production and musical dating back to medieval times combined music and sound effects to
instrument development. Sound design in this multi-part series elevate performances.
refers to the intentional Luigi Russolo, the Italian
blending, sculpting, and composer, built a mechanical
processing of various organic sound design device called
and synthetic tones. This is the “intonarumori” which
quite different and separate was used in experimental
from analyzing the melodies theater production starting
and rhythms being played around 1913 to bring different
in a music composition. Our sound effects to a live stage
primary focus will be with performance. You can see
“processed sound” rather than and hear his devices on the
music, though in the world YouTube link below.
of modern music production
and modern film scores, those Luigi Russolo, Intonarumoris,
lines are easily blurred. A good 1913
example of this can be found in https://www.youtube.com/
the audio track below. watch?v=BYPXAo1cOA4
“Lock On Target” is a sound
cue I created that, upon first Russolo was part of the
listen feels like a strange “futurism” movement which
synthesizer patch but it also focused on the relationship
has rhythmic, “stuttering” between man and machines.
elements, plus evolving pitch The Dadaist movement started
shifting components. I want around the spring of 1916
to draw your attention to in Europe and was greatly
this sound because it could influenced by the futurists.
function as a “sound effect” in “Dada” was sometimes known
a sci-fi movie like Dune and it could also function well musically as a as the “anti-art” movement. They sought freedom from previous
film score cue. This is a great example of “blurring the lines” between restrictions imposed on the arts. Dadaism was a rebellion against
music and sound design. You might be surprised to find out that this popular western musical sensibilities. Eric Satie used simple folk
track was created using a frame drum and a rubber gong mallet as music elements and Marcel Duchamp created the concept of
my only source material. I will provide a video link further on in this “found art”. His controversial “found objects” were assembled as
article to take you through the process of transforming the sound of “constructions” and displayed in art galleries. For Dadaists, noise
a frame drum using sound design. from everyday life was often integrated and used as a compositional
Composer Dave Porter who created the score for the hit series device. Composers like John Cage and Edgar Varese were also
Breaking Bad is a master at merging sound design with music pushing the boundaries of what was considered music.
composition. If you listen to music by artists like FKA Twigs, Tomat,
Son Lux, Louis Cole, Rival Consoles, Death Grips, Gold Panda, John Cage - A Book of Music (1944)
Moderat, Shigeto and dozens of others, it should be immediately https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O--VJ5BH2u8
apparent that they are spending a great deal of time crafting unique
sounds to bring their music to life. Deliberate, creative sound John Cage - Dream (1948)
sculpting is at the core of what they do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hVFCmK6GgM
There are many different paths one could take to arrive at

Edgard Varese - Complete Works of Edgard Varese, Volume 1 (1951) guitars, vocals and
FULL ALBUM pre-recorded found
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEtuTzdCr6s sounds is very common
in modern music
Developments in mechanics and electricity combined with production. We have
research in acoustics gave rise to the early electro-mechanical an amazing advantage
instruments. Inventor Thaddeus Cahill developed the over the early pioneers
Telharmonium which some consider the very first “synthesizer.” because we can utilize
MIDI and digital audio
The First Synth Was Bigger Than Your House - The Telharmonium technology, which
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lVtk5bLqt4 started in the 1980s
and 1990s. If you want
In the 1920s the Theremin was designed and played without to do a much deeper
being touched. Leon Theremin designed an instrument that would dive into the history of
respond to your hands being waved in between two antennae. electronic music and the
Theremin also invented the Rhythmicon in 1931 which was used by early pioneers, you can
composer Edgar Varese. This was essentially an early version of the check out my book, The
modern drum machine. Techno Primer: Essential
reference for loop-based
Leon Theremin playing his own instrument music styles, published by Hal Leonard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5qf9O6c20o The influence of computers in the world of sound design
cannot be overstated. Digital audio workstations (DAWs) offer a
In the 1940s and 1950s, broadcasting equipment, test variety of signal processing algorithms known as FX Plug Ins, plus
equipment and magnetic tape recorders became key components a wide range of delays, filters, EQ’s and much more. You can take
in early electronic music compositions. John Cage composed advantage of all these technologies whether you are using a laptop,
a series called “Imaginary Landscapes” which combined live iPad, iPhone, or a larger format computer (Mac or PC).
instruments with oscillator test tones played using vinyl records. I create custom sound samples that are used in feature films,
The Cologne Station of West German Radio was founded in 1952 TV shows, and global advertising campaigns. I use sound design
and this became the studio used by Herbert Eimert and Karlheinz extensively when I am composing music for my own albums or
Stockhausen. They manipulated found sounds by purely electronic remixing music for John Petrucci and other artists. I have also
means. They called their “studies,” “Elektronishe Musik”. used creative sound design techniques to produce special sample
“Musique Concrete” was also developed during this period by libraries that appear in Yamaha electronic drums and keyboards.
Engineer Pierre Schaeffer and composer, Pierre Henry. They used My sound design and custom sample work usually begins by first
“found sounds”, industrial noises from everyday life, and sounds recording the raw elements, such as cymbals, percussion, drums,
from vinyl records. Musique Concrete relied heavily on Magnetic vocals, guitars or “found objects.”
Tape to process sounds. These various sonic materials were layered When I hear the sound of a beautifully recorded acoustic snare
and manipulated using various recording techniques such as drum or bass drum, I love it, but on some levels, it falls flat for me
filtering, sound splitting, magnetic tape speed manipulation, creatively. This just happens to be the way I “hear” music. I have
elongating sounds using reverb or repetition, tape splicing and been influenced over many years, listening to the early music
other mix techniques. pioneers as well as modern music producers that are experts
at bending, warping, and shaping sounds. On some level, the
Stockhausen - Studie 1 (1953) influence of computer manipulated sound has “distorted” and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4QaMwpVXVM “colored” all our listening preferences. A good case in point, are the
many drummers over the past 20 years that are trying to reverse
Pierre Schaeffer — Le Trièdre Fertile (1978) [Full album, 2012 engineer electronic music using acoustic drums. That fact alone has
Reissue] dramatically altered many of the acoustic drums and “drumhead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHudu1Am6oQ treatments” being manufactured and produced. The range of
acoustic “FX cymbals” and cymbal “stax” designed and produced by
Karlheinz Stockhausen: Telemusik (1966) cymbal companies is even more dramatic. I was fortunate to design
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdIe2CrorMM an entire series of signature effects cymbals with Sabian years ago.
That project was a direct result of trying to blend the worlds of
Pierre Schaeffer - Apostrophe electronic loop-based music with acoustic drums. My experiments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2o9VyuJSD4 with “hybrid drumming” over the years was developed to bring
sound design to a live improvised stage performance.
Today’s music producers and composers owe a lot to these early My primary objective as a sound designer, is to try and create a
pioneers. Manipulating recorded source material such as drums, sound that I have never heard before. That is my motivation each

time I sit down behind my drums, synths, and DAW in my personal “Interactive Distortion Plugin” made by OUTPUT. This plugin offers
studio. I have designed a drum set environment that is tightly multi-band distortion, band splits and activates crossover filters for
integrated into my sound design/music production system. My
computer, software, digital interface, synths, and microphones are
all just as essential as my acoustic kick and snare drum. My drums,
synths and percussion are situated directly behind my music desk.
That desk holds my computers, monitors, pre-amps, and audio
interface. I find it’s much easier to use a studio chair on wheels to
play drums and compose music, rather than use a drum stool. I just
swivel my chair around and I can control my DAW, adjust filters/EQ,
apply new FX and then I swivel back around to play more drums,
trigger pads, and record new grooves and phrases.
This pursuit of “a new dimension for sound” really gets to the
heart of the matter. When I am “in the zone”, I am equal parts
composer, sound engineer, sound designer, drummer, and music
producer, adding character and color to each sound.
** Whether you use an Alesis or Roland, Yamaha or Sun House
trigger systems, I want to encourage you whenever possible to create
your own sounds! If you remember one key element from this article,
let that be your key take-away. ** creative frequency control. I use this plugin in the video clip to alter
Music instrument companies do an amazing job of getting you the sound of the frame drum.
up and running, but you should always try to find a way to push In this video recording/sound design tutorial, I am working inside
further sonically by experimenting with the sounds they provide. Let Steinberg Cubase Pro, which has been my primary music production
the samples provided “in the box” serve as a jumping off point. Many software for many years. I use Cubase Pro on an iMac Pro. You can
electronic percussion instruments have their own built-in effects download a trial version for free right here: www.steinberg.net/
processors, where you can modify stock sampled sounds. I have cubase/trial/
had a lot of fun over the years taking ordinary drum and percussion I have a second music/sound design workstation in my studio
samples and then applying radical tuning ranges to see how this that is based on an iPad. Steinberg also makes an iPad compatible
inspires me. As an exercise, take some snare and tom samples or version of Cubase called “Cubasis for iOS”. You can also download a
djembe samples and tune them down 2 octaves or more. See if you free trial version of Cubasis right here: www.steinberg.net/cubasis
can create some unusual patterns and beats using these new “sound I have had amazing results recording percussion and sound
designed” versions of each stock sample inside your drum module. effects using the iPad set up. I have a range of different sound
Many of these modules also offer “user sample memory” where you design tools on the iPad as well. I like to record new loops and
are invited to store you own sampled sounds. You can capture some sounds and then upload these to my drobox. Having sounds on my
amazing raw sounds using your iPhone or iPad and then process drobox account allows me to download new ideas back onto my
these with digital FX. iMac Pro to further mix and create new music ideas inside Cubase
Let’s look at how to transform pre-recorded sounds using widely Pro.
available digital effects processors on a Mac based DAW. My music I am also a huge fan of SOUNDTOYS plugins. In this “Frame Drum
system is based around Steinberg Cubase Pro. “Cubase” is my Digital Transformation Video”, I am processing the frame drum by using both
Audio Workstation. You can achieve similar results using Pro Tools or SOUNDTOYS and THERMAL to create strange textures. Check out
Logic and many other DAWs available today. SOUNDTOYS on Instagram. www.instagram.com/soundtoys/?hl=en
Below is a video clip of a rubber gong mallet being applied to a In this next video tutorial, I am processing a Rain Drum, focusing
frame drum. The gong mallet produces an unusual sound before on the beads rattling and rolling inside the drum to see how they
we even start the signal processing inside the DAW. As mentioned react to a Granular FX Plugin called PORTAL. PORTAL is also made by
above, our focus will be sculpting the tone and character of the OUTPUT. PORTAL allows me to apply granular synthesis to a variety
frame drum inside the DAW to create something unique that might of different sounds. It drastically alters drums, percussion, cymbals,
bear little resemblance to the original frame drum recording. synths, guitars, vocals and any audio signal you want to experiment
Here is a screen shot of one of my favorite FX plugins called with. In my video example, you can see how I make use of the “Wet/
THERMAL. The pre-set shown here is called UNRULY. Thermal is an Dry” blend to achieve some interesting results with the Rain Drum.

I am also applying several different pre-sets so can hear a range of
sound design options. https://output.com/products/portal
Here is a video example using PORTAL FX in real time as well as
other FX in real time while improvising on the hybrid drum kit. In
this example, I spent some quality time sound designing my own
custom samples which I then placed inside a virtual sampler inside
Cubase Pro. I am using my DTX trigger Module so that I can assign
some of the rubber pads and acoustic drum triggers to my custom
samples. I decided to use the rubber gong mallet on the frame drum
drums.
To finish up Part 1 of this new SOUND DESIGN SERIES - Here is a
full 8-minute video of an Improvised Film Cue. This track is called
“Trisolaran Overlords”. I am processing the gongs and drums using
delays and other FX plugins in real time. I am triggering different
custom synth sounds from the pads and drum triggers. I am also
making good use of the Tony Verderosa “Signature V-Wave” effects
cymbal by Sabian plus my signature “Distortion Hi-Hats” on the right
side of the hybrid Kit.
I hope you enjoyed this Sound Design discussion. If you have
as the basis for this groove. You can hear how the custom samples any questions, please visit me, and send me comments through my
are morphing and changing as I play the grooves. This video clip is an website, www.tonyverderosa.com or follow me on social media/
excellent example of merging the world of hybrid drumming/midi instagram/facebook/youtube/twitter. “Sound Design Part 2” is
triggers with custom sound design. coming soon!
Here is an audio preview from my new album. This track is called
“Operational Camouflage”. This is good example of very aggressive
sound design and custom samples triggered from acoustic hybrid Check out Tony’s Modern Drummer
profile page at moderndrummer.com

JAZZ DRUMMER’S WORKSHOP
Bob Moses’ More Musical Resolution Points

In the last several last months of Modern Drummer we have included the chapters from Bob Moses’ Drum Wisdom book on
the 8/8 Concept and the Sixteen Musical Resolution Points. These two concepts work together and can apply to every style
of music and drumming. We also went into depth regarding the & of 4, the & of 2, and the & of 3 musical resolution points.
This month we will continue by talking specifically about the & of 1, and 4. First, you might want to refresh your memory
by re-reading the last few month’s columns. Here is what Bob has to say about this important concept.
Mastering the Resolution Points

In the following pages we’re going to deal with different resolution points individually. To do that effectively, we will work
with two-bar phrases. Let’s look at the reason for that. The idea behind a resolution point is that it gives you an element of
repetition that is necessary for groove. We do not necessarily need something that repeats in every bar, however, because
we are not just hitting these points, but rather, we are resolving to them, one bar doesn’t really give you enough room to
resolve. In order to have enough room to create a resolution, most of the time we’re going to want to use at least a two-bar
phrase. It could, in fact, be longer than a two-bar phrase, but in this column, we will focus on two-bar phrases because
they are so basic and common to music, I feel that it is very valuable to visualize music whenever you can. You should not
just hear music but also see it. When working from a resolution point, start by visualizing a two-bar phrase with a grid of
8th notes, which you will use as your framework.
The eight resolution points can be incorporated into very simple time keeping patterns, as well as more complex solo
or fill patterns. This month I will be giving some rhythmic examples of phrases which resolve to a specific point. I will not
illustrate how to apply those phrases to the drum set, because it is more important that you develop your own ability to
do this, rather than memorizing the way I, or anyone else, might do it. Rather than practicing specific exercises, you need
to develop your own creativity and your ability to use the resolution points in whatever type of music you are personally
involved with. After you feel that you can hold the 8/8 framework in your mind, along with a specific resolution point, start
creating your own two-bar phrases which resolve to that point. At first you might want to practice the individual phras-
es repeatedly, but ultimately you should be able to play a different phrase every two measures with the only common
element being the resolution point itself. You can use the following examples as a framework for your playing, filling in
around the resolution point in any way you choose. Here are two more resolution points for you to explore.
The & of 1 in the First Bar
Visualization
Timekeeping Patterns
Swung Eighths
Straight Eighths
Phrases Resolving to the & of 1 in the First Bar

Framework for Playing
The & of 1 in the Second Bar
Visualization
Swung Eighths
Straight Eighths
Phrases Resolving to the & of 1 in the Second Bar
4 in the First Bar

Visualization
Swung Eighths
Straight Eighths
Phrases Resolving to 4 in the First Bar
4 in the Second Bar

Visualization
Swung Eighths
Straight Eighths
Phrases Resolving to 4 in the Second Bar
Framework For Playing

Since 1977, Modern Drummer has been the
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To grace the pages of Modern Drummer

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Discord channel is a place to talk drums, experiences.
learn & collaborate with others, share
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that enables members to participate
To conclude, here is what Bob has to say about the feeling of
the musical resolution points that we have discussed
in this and past excerpts of Drum Wisdom.
Although there are eight points in the

bar, there are really only four different
feelings. Although there is a
difference between the 1 and the
3, these points feel very similar.
Likewise, the 2 and the 4 have
a similar feeling, as do the &
of 1 and the & of 3, and the
& of 2 and the & of 4. I have
given you a methodology
for working on each of the
eight points, but because
of the similarity of feeling,
I am going to discuss them
in groups of two.
1 and 3
To me, the 1 and 3 are
anchors. They tend to stop
forward motion, almost like
putting a stake in the ground.
They tend to give a feeling of
reaching the end, and for that
reason I tend to use these the least
of all resolution points. Ironically
enough, they are the ones that almost
everybody seems to be able to do.
2 and 4
These are very valuable resolution points they are
where the swing resides. These are the beats that you snap
your fingers on, or clap your hands to. these are the beats that
make it swing, and resolving on these beats is very effective.
The & of 1 and the & of 3

To me, these feel like an elbow in the ribs; they have kind of a jerky feeling that wakes you up.
They also remind me of a contraction; They have a pulling in kind of motion, they are very
effective because they tend to propel the music.
The & of 2 and the & of 4

These are the opposite of the previous feeling; They are like an expansion rather than
a contraction. They are a stretching, a leaning forward. There is a famous Miles Davis
composition called “Four” that is based on the & of 2 and the & of 4.
If I had to pick one point that is the most important, I would pick the & of 4, but again I stress:
Don’t skip any of them. They are all important!
Check out Bob’s Modern Drummer profile page

and get your copy of Drum Wisdom at moderndrummer.com

Presents: Lessons From The Greats
Double Bass Drumming
The Bass Drum Owners Manual

Applying the Moeller Technique DIG
DOWITAL DV
to the Bass Drum

INCL NLOADD
UDE
D
By Michael Packer
Available In Print and Digital

BUY FROM YOUR FAVORITE MUSIC RETAILER
CHECK OUT MORE AT MODERNDRUMMER.COM
ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC
Double Bass Drumming
by Joe Franco
This month Modern Drummer will continue our re-introduction of Joe Franco’s classic book Double Bass Drumming, and his
concept called the Single Stroke System. Here is Joe’s chapter on Eighth Note Triplet Double Bass Patterns. There are
many more patterns and beats included in this outstanding book.
Eighth Note Triplet Patterns
In this section, patterns using eighth note triplets are broken up between the two bass drums. They are played together
with a quarter note RIDE and the SNARE on 2 and 4 to form beats. The following beat illustrates the eighth note triplet
double bass roll:
When playing the eighth note triplet double bass roll, BD 1 plays two quarter note triplets per measure of 4/4:
Which can be broken down to:
In the following beat BD 1 is played together with the RIDE and SNARE:
When played together over a complete measure of 4/4, BD 1 plays six notes while the ride plays four. This is known as 6 : 4
( 6 against 4 polyrhythm.) The RIDE and BD 1 both fall together on 1 and 3. Keep in mind that the two quarter note triplets
on BD 1 are six notes of equal duration. They are evenly spaced throughout the measure. By playing BD 2 between the
notes of BD 1 the eighth note triplet roll is formed. The RIDE, SNARE, and BD 2 all fall together on 2 and 4.
Practice playing both of the above beats. Again, the more familiar you are with playing the continuous roll the easier it
will be to play the broken patterns in the section. Using the Single Stroke System, eighth note triplet patterns are broken
up between the two bass drums as follows:
The eighth note triplet role differs from the 16th note role in that the main bass drum (BD 1) will fall on every other beat (1
and 3.) Therefore, a one beat eighth note triplet pattern will be played one way (A) if it falls on 1 or 3, and the opposite way
(B) if it falls on 2 or 4. Both A and B are illustrated in the triplet patterns that follow:
Eighth Note Triplet Patterns
Here are some examples of beats using eighth note triplet bass drum patterns:

The beats in this section are written with a quarter note RIDE. Here are some suggestions for other RIDE patterns:
As with the sixteenth note beats, most of the bass drum patterns in this section are designed around a 2 and 4 snare
pattern. Any triplet hand pattern with a snare accent on the 2 and 4 can be played with these bass drum patterns. For
example, the single stroke roll (RLR - LRL - RLR – LRL) with R playing the RIDE and L playing the SNARE.

Check out Joe’s Modern Drummer profile page and get your copy of
Double Bass Drumming at moderndrummer.com

ROCK PERSPECTIVES
Realistic 7/8 time

This year Modern Drummer has been celebrating the 50th The count is simple: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, sev. Saying SEV instead of
anniversary of Carmine Appice’s groundbreaking book, Ultimate seven makes it easier to count, so that all the counts are one syllable.
Realistic Rock. In the last few months, we have included Carmine’s Remember count over and over 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, sev; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,
beats based around quarter notes, eighth notes, accented bass sev, etc.
drum notes, and sixteenth notes. In the next few months we will It is important to note that 7/8 grooves will change the note
print some excerpts from the more advanced sections of the book. values in relation to 4/4.
This month we will include an excerpt from Carmine’s section on
playing in the 7/8 time signature. This is one of the sections that Example:
was added to the new Ultimate Realistic Rock. As you will see, in the Eighth notes = one beat
new odd time section of the book, Carmine makes playing in odd Sixteenth notes = half a beat
times as easy as playing in 4/4. Odd time signatures are no longer a Eighth notes are now counted 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, sev.
challenge. Sixteenth notes are now counted 1 &, 2 &, 3 &, 4 &, 5 &, 6 &, 7 &, etc.
Sixteenth note triplets are now counted 1 & a, 2 & a, 3 &a , 4 & a, 5
Realistic Rock 7/8 timing &a, 6 & a, 7 & a, etc
In order to make each exercise easier to read, think of them as
Welcome to the odd time signatures of Realistic Rock. In this section bars of 4/4 stopping where the & of four should be. We now think of
we will learn how to play in the 7/8 time signature. the & of 4 as beat 1. In other words, in 7/8 we cut off the last eighth
In 4/4 we have eight eighth notes in one bar and in 7/8 we have note of the 4/4 bar.
seven eighth notes in one bar. Count 1 &, 2 &, 3 &, 4, 1 &, 2 &, 3 &, 4 etc. There is no space
Counting out loud and repeating each count will only increase between 4 and 1 when counting. As previously mentioned,
your ability to feel natural with these odd time signatures. Once emphasize the count of 1 (the downbeat) with your bass drum in
comfortable, each downbeat will be easily anticipated as if you were order to feel comfortable with 7/8 times signature.
playing in 4/4. Emphasizing the one of each count with your bass
drum will speed up the process! Good luck! Now go to Ex. 1 One and have some fun.
Realistic 7/8 Time—Eighth Notes
1. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
HH/Cym H H H H H H H

SD
± ¢ ¢ ¢
BD O 3 ±
optional
2.
HH H H H H H H H

SD
G ¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O ±
3.
HH H H H H H H H
G
SD
¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O O ±
70 Modern Drummer July 2022

4.
HH H H H H H H H

SD
G ¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O ± O ±
(
5.
HH H H H H H H H
G
SD
¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O O ±
6.
HH/Cym H H H H H H H H H H H H H H
G ± G
SD
G
BD O O O O ± O O O ± O ±
(
7.
G
SD
¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O O O ±
8.
G
SD
¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O O O O ±
Eight-Bar Exercise
6.

G
G
SD

BD O O O O ± O O ±
H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H
G ± G
O O O O O ± O ± O O O ±
July 2022 Modern Drummer 71

G G
G
O O O ± O O O O O O O O O O O O ±
Realistic 7/8 Time—Sixteenth Notes

1.

SD
G ¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O ±
2.
HH H H H H H H H

SD
G ¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O O ±
3.
HH H H H H H H H
O
SD
± G ¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O O O ±
4.
HH H H H H H H H
O O
SD
± ± G ¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O O O O ±
5.
HH H H H H H H H
G
SD
¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O O O O ±
6.
HH H H H H H H H
G
SD
¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O O O O ±
7.
HH H H H H H H H
G
SD
¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O O O O O ±
72 Modern Drummer July 2022
7/8 Time—Sixteenth Notes
8.
G G
SD

BD O O O OO± O O O O O O ±
9.

SD
G ¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O O O O ±
10.

SD
G ¢ ¢ ¢
BD O O O ±
Eight-Bar Exercise

SD
G G
BD O O O O ± O O O O ±
G G G
O OO O O O ± O O O OO ± O OO O OO ±
G G
G
O OO O OO± O O O O O OO ± OO OO OO±
Check out Carmine’s Modern Drummer profile page

and his book collection at moderndrummer.com
July 2022 Modern Drummer 73

NEXT GEN
Dan Mayo: Breaking the Norm of How Drums Sound
By Raghav Mehrotra
D an Mayo is the
definition of
unique, in the best
way possible. He
started his musical
journey at the age of
three, and by the time
he was six, Dan was
exposed to (arguably)
the best form of
learning, playing
with other musicians.
He went from genre
to genre absorbing
all the information
he could while
performing in his
home city of Tel Aviv,
Israel. That was where
he was exposed to
many different musical
cultures.
Ariel Efron
Since then, Mayo
has been curating a
unique sound that is
unmistakably him. He
combines his drums teachers in high school placed around it. They would always tell
with guitar effects pedals to present the instrument in a totally me how great and revolutionary jazz was and how I “had to love it,”
new light. This unmistakable sound can be heard on recordings but because of that forced nature, it never really stuck. However,
with his band TATRAN and performing with artists such as Ester I remember walking to a CD store later to get some prog-metal
Rada at major festivals such as the Montreux Jazz Festival, Atlanta records and coming across Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers. It
Jazz Festival, and the Rotterdam Jazz Festival. In this interview, we was a surreal experience listening to them…I loved it.
dive into how Dan’s musical influences have shaped his approach MD: Did you follow your ears when searching for these influences,
to understanding music and creating his sound, as well as the or did you have some formal training?
intricacies behind his creative process. DM: Well, I wasn’t exactly the best student. The school that I was
enrolled in was arts-centric, they gave us the choice to concentrate
MD: What drew you to drumming? in one of three artistic disciplines: dancing, visual art (such as
DM: To be honest, I don’t know! I was surrounded by music from a painting), and music. Of course, I chose music. Through that
young age; that’s the best way to say it. My cousins are musicians, program, I was lucky enough to have a wide array of experiences
so I grew up in rehearsal rooms and constantly saw musicians playing with other musicians. I feel as though my biggest lessons
coming in and out to practice and perform. On a deeper level, I feel came through those experiences. Those experiences taught me
as though drums are the easiest method I can employ to express how musicians communicate. When you can communicate through
myself. I sometimes have a hard time expressing myself with words, your music, that’s when you know you are getting better. That
not just in English but in Hebrew (which is another language I communication can occur through musical ideas or even something
speak.) However, when I play, everything clears up—it’s like a native like proper tone.
language to me. MD: Did you start to gravitate towards different styles of music as
MD: Are there any specific records that you listened to that helped you learned to communicate spontaneously through music?
you discover drums? DM: You can definitely say that, yes. In addition to an increased
DM: My father listened to a lot of classic rock bands when I was appreciation for improv-based styles of music, I was able to dip
growing up—stuff like Rush and Led Zeppelin. From there I my feet in MANY different musical cultures. Growing up in Israel
discovered James Brown and other funk artists. Actually, now that also contributed to that appreciation. Israel is composed of many
I think about it, before discovering funk, I listened to a lot of prog- different cultures of music. I was playing everything from Ethiopian
metal bands like System of a Down. Then I followed the lineage of music, to Moroccan music, to straight-ahead jazz (Israel has a great
funk musicians back to jazz, however I remember hating jazz at first. jazz scene!) It was life changing!
MD: I’m curious about your opposition to jazz… In a sense, going back to your previous question, for me, the
DM: I think my opposition to jazz stemmed from the aura that my best teacher was playing with all of those different musicians. Our

common bond wasn’t our culture, it was (instead) our love for the The Unknown (crazy synth fuzz,) and a spring box pedal, which
music that we were playing. That enabled us to exchange many essentially, just makes a lot of noise (the way I like it!) Again, I
different ideas. practice drums seeking new sounds. So for me, those pedals were
MD: What musical ideas have you picked up from your experiences just frankly the next inevitable thing. It’s just so much fun to just
that you have found particularly helpful or intriguing? discover through that medium!
DM: Two main ideas come to mind: The first one comes from Yemini MD: How does your playing differ when you’re playing with a
music; it’s called a Daasah. It’s in seven and it’s super groovy, it’s pedalboard versus playing with only acoustic drums?
almost like playing funk. Through Daasah I learned the power of DM: Great question! It’s all about working out a balance with my
inner clave—when you dance to it and feel it in your bones, you ears. Usually, I take three factors into account: the gain staging,
can really do whatever you want with it! That taught me how to be how hard I’m hitting the drums, and the density of my phrases. For
free and instilled the ‘physical’ part of music in me, dancing. I found example, if I have a delay pedal on my drums, playing very dense
the second idea in Ethiopian music. That music has more of a 6-6-4 phrases is just going to clutter up what’s coming from the pedal.
kind of rhythm. That taught me to NOT play the kick drum on every With high gain staging, I can use the pedal almost as a second
quarter note and aided the development of my internal rhythmic instrument. I can actually interact with the effect. I can let my notes
pulse. To me, both styles are great principles of how to be more breathe and let the settings on the pedal do the work when I’m
“unique” and “free” in the grooves that I play, while still keeping the not playing. In a way, the sounds created by the pedal in the final
inherent “skeleton” of the style. I learned that the placement of any mix make up for when I’m not playing. I’ve also found that the
extraneous notes and where they should go, is up to me. way I mic the drums is important. With a dynamic microphone, I
MD: How do you decide where those notes should go? was getting some sound from the pedal, but the pedal was not
DM: It’s definitely a feel thing for me. A lot of the stuff I play is able to interact with my drums unless I was bashing. With a ribbon
reactive and impulsive. If it doesn’t feel right, what’s its emotional mic, which makes a figure-eight pattern, I am able to capture
value to the music? everything. Everything from the high end of the toys and the
MD: Talk to us about your work with guitar pedals and drums. cymbals to the low frequencies of the kick drum, it was truly game
DM: I’ve always liked weird sounds. When I practice my real focus changing. Mic’ing with a ribbon microphone helped me discover
is to make the drums SOUND good. My philosophy is that if I can the “ducking” effect that I am able to get when I slam the kick drum
sound “right,” the technique will ultimately come. This is instead and let it breathe. The feedback that I create with the pedals is able
of me having to bend my
ideal sound to fit the “correct”
technique.
During Covid, I was eager
to start filming and recording
myself; I don’t know why, it
just happened. And after a
while of recording my drums, I
found myself wanting a sound
that was just…different. I just
decided to plug in a guitar
pedal that I had lying around.
The pedal was called the
Fusionbox by Eric Synths—and
I loved the sound. Then I just
started adding more pedals.
Offir Benjaminov, the bassist
from my band TATRAN, gave
me a pedal. One of my first
Ariel Efron
distortion pedals was the

Tremstrotion by Mattoverse.
That is a tremolo and a barbaric
distortion in one pedal—it
sounds ridiculous on drums,
like a punk teenage boy that’s looking for trouble. Each pedal that I to squeeze between the kick drum notes. That creates a certain
added opened new possibilities for what sounds I could get out of tension and release that I love.
the drums and HOW I played them. MD: I love your fearlessness and intuitive drive. Given that, how do
I have to give a shout out to Anto Nota from Deaftone, he you further develop your playing with effects pedals? Essentially,
helped me a LOT! He created the wiring on my pedalboard and how does one know they’re getting “better” when they are playing
built three of my most frequently used pedals: Bruut (RAT clone,) with such an incredibly subjective medium? A medium that may be

even more subjective than playing drums? MONO has also been incredibly supportive of the idea of
DM: I’m just chasing after what feels right to me. Presently, in my pedalboards for drums. Not only did they send me a pedalboard
body, it feels right. When I used to practice as a kid, I’d imagine to start my journey, but they also sent me a few pedals from Teisco
a huge crowd in front of me. When you get the rush of that to explore—the Teisco delay pedal is my go-to pedal. It has a very
performance, you learn how to play an interesting story. You learn to clean and warm sound, it’s great for creating space and size.
say something that is meaningful and feels right. Today, if I’m getting MD: Tell us about your band, TATRAN. How has the band’s sound
the feeling that I want to just take off my shirt and scream (in a good evolved as you have evolved as a musician?
way,) I know I’m making a positive emotional impact on myself, and DM: That’s an amazing question because we were just talking about
thus, to the crowd in front of me. it earlier! Our band is almost 70s driven in a way; not necessarily
MD: That’s a perfect way to put it. That energy is present in your musically, but in the sense that we play all our music and effects
videos online and it permeates the audience. live. On stage, we don’t have any computers, tracks, or synthetics.
DM: In a lot of the videos that you see online, I’m either just opening Everything we play is created LIVE. Each of the band members—
a pedal or just starting to play with it. That magical feeling I get Tamuz Dekel on guitar, Offir Benjaminov on bass, and me on
when that burst of creativity washes over me is exactly what you see drums—now have effects pedals. With the addition of my pedal
online. Social media, for me, is just the place to share what I’ve been setup, I’m really looking forward to our upcoming album.
discovering with the people that are willing to listen. When we play, we are all interacting not only within our
MD: I know the gear you use is a big part of your sound, tell us instruments but with each other. That interaction includes with
about all the unique instruments you have! both our pedals and our regular instruments! However, the addition
DM: All the gear I use emulates what I want to hear, perfectly. Put of pedals on the drums has created some logistics issues. When
intentional effects come
through the monitors, the
sounds go through the
speakers and then back into
the mics, that creates this
infinite loop of madness. To
deal with that I have to adjust
the EQ and add gating. I have
to suppress the pedal system
with my playing a bit until I
find the perfect solution.
Personally, I’ve also learned
the value of NOT playing a
crash cymbal. I noticed that
whenever I hit a crash, it’s
because of an insecurity
with what I am playing. That
insecurity stems from my
Ben Mizrahi
struggle to find the “right

part” for the song. To fix this,
on stage I started waiting a
couple of seconds between
iterations of a drum part.
bluntly, it’s a bunch of weird stuff that makes all the unique sounds I Essentially, instead of jumping to change a part that I thought
hear in my head come to life. wasn’t right, I let the part I’m playing marinate with the music before
I got drums from A&F about five years ago. I remember my I change it. That process means that when I actually find that right
stomach shaking with the depth of the kick sound…it was part, it’s really worth it. Also, not adding crashes creates a really cool
incredible. I saw that they had 6” snare drums, so I got one and tension that I can resolve later with some unique combination of
added it to my already eccentric setup. I started putting drums on sounds that mimic the emotional effect of a crash cymbal.
top of each other and flipping them over, so many new ideas came MD: That concept of crashes masking insecurity is quite intriguing!
to mind. I even brought my 6” snare on a rock tour and used it as a DM: Yeah, totally! I noticed that on a gig. The speed at which I have
main snare. That drum is so versatile! Rami, from A&F, is searching to develop the right parts to keep the audience engaged is quite
for new sounds all the time, just like me. He was a touring musician fast. It has been fun developing the skill to ensure that the full
before he started the business of making drums. It is so easy to musical value of my different drum parts are heard. I like to let a part
share the excitement of finding a new sound or discovering a new shine before I move on…who knows what ideas might stem from it.
drum making material with him. Not long ago, Rami sent me a kit
with a 26” bass drum. That drum vibrates at 20 Hz. It’s a testament to Dan Mayo is endorsed by: A&F Drum Company, A&F Hardware,
the depth of sound that drums can create. Sound guides me. I also Meinl Cymbals, MONO, Vic Firth, Morfbeats, Mr. Muff, SE
use Morfbeats stuff a lot. Adam Morford (the founder) creates these electronics, Erica Synths, Jam Pedals, Gamechanger Audio,
metal pieces that have such cool frequencies, pitches, timbres, and Deaftone, Teisco, Aston mics, Chase Bliss.
levels of sustain… I almost don’t use cymbals anymore!
Check out Dan’s Modern Drummer profile page at moderndrummer.com

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COLLECTOR’S CORNER
Donn Bennett’s Drum Vault:

Stan Lynch’s Mitch Mitchell Inspired Ludwigs
By Donn Bennett
In 1983, Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers were on a roll. They’d

been steadily cracking out gold and platinum albums and racking
up hits with songs like “Breakdown,” American Girl,” “The Waiting,”
new drum kit.
He hooked up with Joe Hibbs, Tama artist relations manager at
the time, to design the set. They decided to create a set inspired
“Don’t Do Me Like That,” and “Refugee.” The band was touring by the Ludwig silver sparkle set that Mitch Mitchell played with
constantly and packing stadiums all over the world. This constant The Jimi Hendrix Experience. Silver sparkle was not a finish that
touring inspired Heartbreakers drummer Stan Lynch to design a Tama offered at the time, so the finish had to be sourced from

another drum company. This is the
only Imperialstar drum set in silver
sparkle finish that Tama ever made.
Mitch Mitchell’s Ludwig set had one
mounted tom and two floor toms.
At Hibbs’ suggestion, they “floated”
the two floor toms, mounting them
on a double tom stand instead of
traditional floor tom legs. Lynch liked
a wide-open sound and the drums
needed to be loud, so the stock
Imperialstar internal mufflers that
were standard at the time were left
off.
The kit was built in what would now
be considered “vintage” sizes: a 14x
22 bass drum, a 9 x 13 mounted tom,
and 14x14 and 16 x 16 suspended
floor toms. The snare is a steel-shell
5x14 Tama Kingbeat with a parallel
throw-off. He kept the whole classic
vibe going with coated Remo
ambassador heads all the way around
and completely cut out the front bass
head. Lynch remembers the set as
being really fun to play and saying, “It
was frisky. It was loud, explosive, and
really tunable. Our sound guy loved
them.”
Lynch played this set in live
performances with Tom Petty And
The Heartbreakers between 1984 and
1986. It can be seen and heard on the
band’s Pack Up The Plantation 1985
live concert video. In the summer
of 1985, the band was invited to
perform at Live Aid, an event to help
raise funds to fight world hunger.
This was the biggest musical event
ever produced to date, taking place
simultaneously on stages at Wembley
Stadium in London, England, and JFK
Stadium in Philadelphia. Tom Petty
And The Heartbreakers played at JFK
and their performance was seen by a
worldwide audience of an estimated
1.9 billion people. This is the set Lynch
played.
Stan Lynch left the Heartbreakers in
1994 and went on to become an extremely successful songwriter
and producer and continues to work with some of the biggest
names in the music industry. I acquired this set directly from Stan,
who ironically traded me for a 1960s Ludwig silver sparkle set like
the one that originally inspired this set, way back in ’83.

EYE CANDY
Tama Lars Ulrich Signature Kit
T he kit shown here replicates the Limited

Edition Lars Ulrich Signature configuration
originally created by Tama Drums for Metallica’s
1992 tour. It includes two 16” X 24” bass drums;
10” X 10”, 11” X 12”, 13” X 14”, and 15” X 16” rack
toms; two 16” X 18” floor toms; and an 8” X 14”
birch shell snare drum. The drums are finished
in a white gloss wrap and fitted with all-black
hardware. Lars’ is signature is on the insides of the
shells and on the front bass drum heads. Tama
‘90s-era heavy-duty pedals and stands complete
the outfit.
This kit is featured in the book Crash:

The World’s Greatest Drum Kits,
available at moderndrummer.com

The
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CARMINE APPICE: 50 YEARS OF BEING REALISTIC

THE WORLD’S #1 DRUM RESOURCE

BOB MOSES • BILLY ASHBAUGH

A DRUM AS UNIQUE AS THE

56 CREATIVE PERCUSSION CONTROLLERS

60 JAZZ DRUMMERS WORKSHOP

66 ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC

8 JAZZ INSIGHTS 78 COLLECTORS CORNER

10 HEALTH, WELLNESS, 80 EYE CANDY

Past, Present, and Future Founder Ronald Spagnardi 1943–2003

M usic, drumming, and art (in general)

Canadian Publications Mail Agreement No. 41480017 Return undeliverable Canadian

Subscribe today at moderndrummer.com/subscribe

@ModernDrummer modern_drummer @modern_drummer

4 Modern Drummer August 2022

Buy from your favorite retailer

1997 Satin Emerald Green DW Kit

M ick McDermott plays classic country as well as classic

6 Modern Drummer August 2022

I ’m tempted to begin each

Since I just turned the

8 Modern Drummer August 2022

The Peter Erskine Library

August 2022 Modern Drummer 9

Cardiovascular Fitness for Strength and Longevity

I n my series of articles, under the

10 Modern Drummer August 2022

A simple bike trainer can be a great investment if

August 2022 Modern Drummer 11

Check out James’ Modern Drummer profile page at moderndrummer.com

12 Modern Drummer August 2022

Gretsch Drums Introduces the USA Custom Ridgeland Snare Drum

14 Modern Drummer August 2022

Dunnett acquires Intellectual Property Rights to Milestone Percussion

August 2022 Modern Drummer 15

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Feel and sound

August 2022 Modern Drummer 17

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August 2022 Modern Drummer 19

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August 2022 Modern Drummer 21

MD: Let’s go back to your beginnings as a

piano, bass, and drums. We would play at

through social media. And if you are a

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August 2022 Modern Drummer 23

music, I practiced, I did all of

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Courtesy Gavin Harrison

August 2022 Modern Drummer 27

geek out a bit about gear.

28 Modern Drummer August 2022

AS: I also have a 4x15 snare made by Gary Noonan, again

August 2022 Modern Drummer 29

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