tantekthus if you wanted to embed some sort of markup for everyone else, you could either do so invisible (with empty abbrs, yuck), or experimentally with a nested HTML document in the 'data' attribute of an <object> tag.
danlykeI will keep my comments on the Zeldman piece to noting that I had to hit ctrl-- a few times to read it, and wish he didn't waste all that inter-line whitespace.
danlykeIt's never been either square or the width of an "M" (ie: the definition we used when I used to hand-set cold type), and on some of the stock fonts it ends up horrendously wrong. It's been years since I said "screw this, I'll never use it again" (and years since I touched CSS for more than minor tweaks), but it's never been usable as a base unit the way it should be.
danlykeI remember thinking that's the way it should work (ie: set to the font size, it's square), but didn't. It could simply be that the core MS fonts were largely broken.
KartikPrabhudanlyke: maybe the line-height thing could be fixed by some browser setting. that would be nifty... I would use it to increase line space on most sites though ;)
danlykeKartikPrabhu it's kinda like the cyclist's view of automobiles: Sure, we can blame individual drivers, but in the end it's the entire culture of careless endangerment that's the problem. So it is with web design.
KartikPrabhudanlyke: yes. the "culture" is the problem. but it seems to be going back at least a bit now. Most web design experts seem to be pushing heavily for progressive enhancement
danlykeYeah. And, let's face it, Facebook and Twitter are indeed beating the blogs. Just because I hate humanity's preferences doesn't mean it isn't the direction of the masses. Sigh.
KartikPrabhuCSS does define units very thoroughly and they are different from what print people would expect. E.g. a pixel is not a physical pixel. But the CSS definition is pretty sound
tantekwell until I can post a /quotation I'll just post a /like for now and deal with the fact that a like of a non-tweet does not get POSSEd to Twitter (because that would get annoying fast I suspect for Twitter followers)
tantekkylewm: the canonical example is games - where without dynamic interaction it doesn't make sense. however, for many games (e.g. turn based ) - there's no need for JS to make it "work"
KartikPrabhusnarfed: true. but that was only illustrative. many other things could go wrong. Some browser does not support the latest ECMA script functions and again no content
snarfedKartikPrabhu: sure, agreed, browser compat is no fun. but the reasonable fallback is progressive enhancement, not not content. no sense in arguing against the dumbest version :P
kylewm"Because as it stands, Python 3 is the XHTML of the programming language world. It's incompatible to what it tries to replace but does not offer much besides being more “correct”."
tantekhey at least you *have* a theme. I don't even have a theme (abstraction), much less even templates (except for my home page, which is built from a template).
prtksxnaAlso, I am not doing status messages right. I am using the wordpress title instead of the content. That is stupid because it doesn't let me add links and stuff…
tantekaaronpk - indeed. It's very tempting to re-use/repurpose already implemented post types for additional post types, and they sorta can work that way too.
tantekhowever there are the dual problems of capturing author intent - i.e. what's the *focus* of the author's post, and explicitly allowing for / hinting at / encouraging post kind specific display
tantekthat is - the *quote* being the focus, the primary content the author wishes to convey, and the URL just being a citation / info-about the quote.
tantekrather than the *bookmark* or URL being the focus, and a description / quote is meant purely as sort of an optional mini-preview / snippet for the reader's convenience.
tantekthe intent behind those two are very different, and should at least *allow for* different presentation (whether or not and how they are presented differently is a different matter, so to speak)
tantekI realized that a parenthetical expression of time after a piece of media/link already has some shared meaning, that it's a duration indicator/hint about the media/link being shared (expectedly audio/video)
tantek(I find reading people like that much more satisfying / calm than any kind of random aggregate "news feed" of updates from all the random sources)
tantekor even more minimally, leave out explicit authorship in such posts - just use a permalink/URL and presume that anyone wanting detailed info about a post you like, can simply retrieve that post and follow the /authorship algorithm on it
voxpelli!tell KevinMarks I pushed a quick fix now for the duplicated text in the mentions on your site – it displays a sensible default now rather than the imported like/repost text
tantekthat quotation with a photo to me seems more like the primary content / intent is to show the *photo* and then the quotation is intended secondarily as the caption of the photo.
tantek… inside a quotation is supposed to indicate that the ellipsis was in the original quotation, whereas […], like any [words inserted] insidde a quotation implies insertion (deletion) by the quoter.
aaronpkthe version in the fb og tag was "fwd @timberners_lee RT @aaronpk "Because already got webmentions on my site, Brid.gy worked straight out the gate... j.mp/U5UH3O"
aaronpkand in the entry-content element there was "fwd <a href="http://twitter.com/timberners_lee">@timberners_lee</a> RT <a href="http://twitter.com/aaronpk">@aaronpk</a> “Because already got webmentions on my site, Brid.gy worked straight out the gate… <a href="http://j.mp/U5UH3O">j.mp/U5UH3O</a>"
tantekright, no summary means you have to pick between name to keep the comment short for presentation or content for more but which risks making the comment much bigger (off topic?) than your post.
tantekwhen displaying a name or summary for a comment, and the comment has content, AND the name/summary being used is a strict whitespace normalized text abbreviation for the content, show a "More…" link which dynamically shows the entire content in place instead of the name/summary
Loqitantek meant to say: when displaying a name or summary for a comment, and the comment has content, AND the name/summary being used is a strict whitespace normalized text prefix abbreviation for the content, show a "More…" link which dynamically shows the entire content in place instead of the name/summary
tanteksince the comment author's use of ellipsis in the name/summary indicates that they are explicitly communicating in the name/summary that there IS more content
aaronpkI've been working on a blog post about OAuth 2.0 implementations. It's a checklist that points out all the things where OAuth 2.0 implementations can differ
aaronpkyeah. I'm toying with the idea of making this a live form, so people can fill it out based on their server implementation. then I could collect results that way
tantek.comedited /quotation (+2337) "why section, primary / portion / emphasis exception, and when to instead use a repost, bookmark, or photo" (view diff)
tantekif your post is primarily about the quotation, and only secondarily about any summary / comment / description, then it should still be a quotation
tantekif however, your comment *is* your primary contribution, then are you are writing a reply, and the quotation is actually acting as just a reply-context. Post a reply instead, in-reply-to a fragmention link to the start of the quoted content.
tantek.comedited /quotation (+2569) "subheads for why, secondary brief commentary, when to use a reply instead, with examples, note connection to marginalia" (view diff)
tantekWhat I find particularly interesting is that I needed the conceptual building blocks of "reply-context" "fragment" and "marginalia" to actually answer the seemingly "simpler" question about quotation vs. reply.
Loqitantek meant to say: What I find particularly interesting is that I needed the conceptual building blocks of "reply-context" "fragmention" and "marginalia" to actually answer the seemingly "simpler" question about quotation vs. reply.
aaronpkalso it was the act of scanning through past notes on my site looking for these examples that made me realize I already have a lot of the reader work done
tantekhowever, upon reading the the linked article, I *think* the bookmark is more primary, and the quotation is just a secondary "reminder" or "summary" of what kind of thing is in the bookmark, or *why* you bookmarked it.
aaronpki suppose accepting contributions is easier for CC0 source code since you're asking very clearly for the contributor to give up their copyrights rather than assigning them or licensing them
tantekbecause I started CASSIS as CC-BY-SA deliberately to slow down / constrain some of its propagation until I felt like there (enough) test cases, review of the code etc.
tantekwhat CC-BY-SA gives you above CC0 for such "uncertain" code is that you're communicating an expectation that derivative works MUST also be openly published, which means if you find a bug in your original, you have *a chance* of finding (or other finding) downstream copies and fixing
tantekanother reason is if you're doing a project essentially by yourself and you have some fear someone may try to hijack it e.g. incorporate it in its entirety into some larger project and then claim its theirs, take it over, etc.
tantekusing CC-BY-SA minimizes that to only other larger projects that use CC-BY-SA - which are not typically not the type of people/communities that hijack things
tantekbtw by take it over - I also mean put a more restrictive license on it that causes you trouble with working on your own code - since fixes may become "obvious" and they may make fixes before you do.
tantekhmm I think I just made myself more work - since I don't think Bridgy Publish returns the FB permalink of the POSSE like of a FB object, does it?
tantekkylewm: not for me. however I assume that Bridgy sees the URL permalink of a like as some sort of return value to its FB API call to like something
GWGThe issue being that Indieweb conventions see no difference between the two and WordPress does. Trying to decide how to address in a presentation manner
tantekGWG, simple answer, WP categories are an old obsolete methodology and architecture. ignore them completely. pretend they don't exist. Use only tags.
tantekAll I know is that we're documenting more real world post types with actual citations of examples in the wild than the ActivityStreams crowd ever did :P
voxpelliworks well with kylewm's "like" endpoint, although perhaps one would like a bit quicker publish flow there – like a 1-click confirm rather than a form?
Loqireal-time comments are the display of comments on a view of a post (typically on its permalink) as they are received by the post (presumably via webmention), without needing any explicit user reloading, refreshing, or any other tapping/clicking etc https://indiewebcamp.com/real-time_comments
tantekclick empty heart, send web+action URL handler, your server posts like to your own site, sends webmention to the post you're looking it, post you're looking at updates its appearance to show the heart is now full
tommorrisat some point, we should probably get the VisualEditor onto IWC (and maybe microformats) wiki. VisualEditor promises less painful diffs and happier non-technical users. :)
tantek.comedited /POSSE (+739) "add subheads to other approaches, add pesetas, incorporate notes about Tumblr to Twitter in pesetas section" (view diff)
snarfed the "Elsewhere online" section on the left of his front page https://aribadernatal.com/ is interesting
@t reviewing 2015-01-01 #indieweb commitments; super impressed with what @aribadernatal shipped! https://aribadernatal.com/2015/01/01/homebrew-website-2015-edition/ (ttk.me t4Zx2) (twitter.com/_/status/551170416308658176)
KartikPrabhu it is hidden in the gears icon now
tantek so ironic. here is the zeldman post: http://www.zeldman.com/2014/12/27/designer-blindness/
@kartik_prabhu like of : http://vimeo.com/98953952 Putter (noun): a putter-togetherer of scissors. (twitter.com/_/status/542885961361682434)
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "single page app" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=single+page+app
@jnymck @t So basically any site w/ a contact form is an "application"? Do sites on 3rd party hosted services like .. http://jnymck.withknown.com/2015/t-so-basically-any-site-w-a-contact-form-is (twitter.com/_/status/551194992924844032)
ben_thatmust HAHA, successfully getting an auth key. I should be able to post in no time
aaronpk !tell tantek: re /quotation : That's what I use bookmarks for. e.g. http://aaron.pk/b4Zx2
@kevinmarks So if you want to subscribe to @NPRinvisibilia on android use http://www.npr.org/rss/podcast.php?id=510307 or listen at http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=https%3A%2F%2F2.gy-118.workers.dev/%3A443%2Fhttp%2Fwww.npr.org%2Frss%2Fpodcast.php%3Fid%3D 510307 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/551258340894863360)
@sgerrand RT @t: 2010: notes on my site before Twitter 2013: @-replies 2015: faves before Twitter Join the #indieweb and #ownyourdata. (ttk.me t4Zx1) (twitter.com/_/status/551273255492153345)
neuro` tantek: can you have some /people/someone pages gathering those individuals posts?
@jailvestre @nhoizey @oncletom @loicmathaud @davidbgk @DavidBruant l'@indiewebcamp est á fond sur ce genre de truc ! (twitter.com/_/status/551316971359588352)
@nhoizey @jailvestre oui, bien entendu, avec @adactio notamment. +@oncletom @loicmathaud @davidbgk @DavidBruant @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/551322117351174145)
@loicmathaud @oncletom @davidbgk @DavidBruant ça reste encore assez confidentiel dans l'univers #indieweb mais ne demande qu'á être plus largement usité (twitter.com/_/status/551343520171446272)
@hugoroyd Hello to @taziden joining the #indieWeb @withKnown (twitter.com/_/status/551363363897638913)
@Wordius @voxpelli Trouble getting Webmentions to work on http://t.co/kkNRtKY4dl. Link in head, script in post but no joy despite likes on Twitter (twitter.com/_/status/551396683087900672)
@xtof_fr @Wordius Kudos for implementing #webmentions ! Cannot help Thinking about #ownmynotes' commitment : How to own replies w/ "in-reply-to" (twitter.com/_/status/551441795176230912)
tantek.com edited /quotation (+2337) "why section, primary / portion / emphasis exception, and when to instead use a repost, bookmark, or photo" (view diff)
kylewm snarfed, so I am looking at https://www.brid.gy/facebook/tantek.celik .. the Published likes at the bottom
voxpelli there's now WebAction / IndieConfig links for Likes and Tips on my blog in addition to the reply http://voxpelli.com/2014/10/indie-config-overview/
tommorris.org edited /POSSE (-274) "Undo revision 16365 by [[Special:Contributions/Tommorris.org|Tommorris.org]] ([[User talk:Tommorris.org|talk]]) - "trans-silo POSSE" squicks Tantek out, reverting until we can find a better way to document. in the meantime, documented on [[Tumblr]]" (view diff)