How (and why) to knit top down sleeves flat

Ever since I posted the details of the top-down

rollneck sweater I knitted for Bob, I’ve gotten a lot
of questions about why on earth I would opt to
knit flat sleeves on a top-down sweater, as well
as how to do it. For many or most knitters, the
whole point of knitting a top-down sweater is that
it is seamless, as in nearly free of any finishing
work. I actually don’t love wearing seamless
sweaters — they feel flimsy and insubstantial to
me. For me, the benefits of top-down are
increased control over fit, ability to conjure up a
sweater without a pattern, and freedom to
experiment along the way — all compelling traits,
but I also believe in seams, which is what led me
to my basted knitting technique. With a basting stitch, it’s possible to add a seam to a circular sleeve and
thereby give it the support it needs, so why would I go one step further and knit them flat? A few reasons:
WHY
1) At some point I fell out of love with small-circumference
seamless knitting (i.e. on DPNs or Magic Loop or however you
want to do it). I feel like knitting a sleeve flat — whether
attached or detached, top-down or bottom-up — is less fiddly
and thus faster than knitting it in the round, even when you
factor in the little bit of time it takes to seam it.
2) One of the biggest knocks against top-down sweaters is the
tedium of knitting sleeves while they’re attached to a sweater.
As you’re knitting around and around on a top-down sleeve,
you’re spinning the entire sweater around and around in your
lap. I tend to knit the sleeves before the body gets too
voluminous, regardless, but still, it’s annoying! By knitting
them flat, the sweater can just lie there politely while I work
back and forth across the sleeve. To me, it’s a much more
pleasant experience than knitting them in the round.
3) As noted, the seam will lend structure to the sleeves over
time as they’re pushed and pulled around by the wearer.
Which leaves the question of—
HOW
If you’re going to seam your sleeves, you need to increase your
stitch count by 2 stitches — those will be the two selvage
stitches you seam together at the end. To do that, put your live
sleeve stitches back onto a needle or a couple of DPNs, then
work as follows:
– Starting at the center of the underarm stitches, pick up and knit along the underarm stitches; pick up and knit
one extra stitch at the end of the underarm stitches* (in the gap between the cast-on underarm stitches and the
live sleeve stitches); knit across the live sleeve stitches; pick up and knit one extra stitch again in the gap before
the rest of the underarm stitches; then pick up and knit across the remaining underarm stitches, bringing you
back to the center of the underarm, where your seam will eventually be.
– Do not join in the round! Do not decrease out the 2 extra picked-up stitches — you’ve increased your stitch
count by 2, which is exactly what you need.
– Using a short hat needle or Double Pointed Needless for the first couple of inches (as long as there’s a tight
bend in the rows), work back across the wrong side of the sleeve for the next row,** then work back and forth in
rows from here on out.
– Once you’ve worked a couple of inches and are no longer fighting the curve of the sleeve, you can switch to a
longer circular needle, if you like, for more comfortably working the rows.
– If you’re trying on the sweater/sleeve to check the circumference at various points, clip or pin the sleeve closed,
eliminating the two selvage stitches that will later disappear into the seam. (I like Clover’s Wonder Clips for this.)
– When the knitting is complete (and ideally after the sweater has been blocked), use mattress stitch to seam the
sleeves closed.
Voila: top-down, perfectly fitted, structurally sound sleeves without the hassle of knitting them in the round.

*If you’re knitting a sweater with a stitch pattern, you’ll need to reconcile your stitches with the stitch pattern on
this row — keep the selvage stitch at each end in stockinette for seaming later.
**If your sleeve is stockinette, that means purl on the WS row. If knitting from a chart, start reading your
chart from left to right for WS rows, right to left for RS rows.
Knit Sweaters the Easy Way has you knit straight down to the wrist band; it’s too bulky and too wide for a thin 10
year old boy. I remember some patterns say decrease both sides every 6(?) Rows, then every so many rows til you
do every other row. How often would you advise me to taper the sleeve? I plan on decreasing a large amount of
stitches just before ribbing of wristband.
Brilliant post, as always! Howver, you lost me with this instruction.
Using a short hat needle or DPNs for the first couple of inches (as long as there’s a tight bend in the rows), work
back across the wrong side of the sleeve for the next row,** then work back and forth in rows from here on out.
Can you elaborate? Hat Needle? Tight bend in the rows? What is the difference between the knitting that occurs
in the “first couple of inches” and “from here on out”?
*As long as you’re near the armpit it’s small-circumference knitting, even if you’re not doing it in the round —
you still have to work your way around the curve of the sleeve. In other words, for those first couple of inches,
you can’t lay the rows out flat because they’re attached at the underarm. So even though you’re working back and
forth, you need DPNs or a 16″ circular with short tips (aka a hat needle) to get around the curve of the sleeve.
Once you’ve got a few inches of fabric, you’re no longer constricted by the underarms and can work in more of a
flat fashion on a longer circular, longer needle tips. Does that help?
*I’m flummoxed. How do I pick up and knit stitches at the beginning AND end of the live sleeve stitches?
I can do the ones to the left of the under arm as you look at the RS – the first 4-plus-1 but at the end? What with?
*You pick up and knit underarm stitches starting in the middle of the underarm. Then work the live/held sleeve
stitches. Then end with picking up and knitting the other half of underarm stitches. I hope this helps! I’m
currently knitting the sleeves of my Comfort Fade Cardi flat instead of in the round, due to tension issues
* I’m quite relieved you do this. I’ve knitted my last two top down sweaters this way because a). DPN’s drive me
insane and suck all the pleasure out of knitting and b). I was finding using a magic loop when knitting in cotton (
I live in a warm climate and a 10ply wool sweater is not going to get worn) was not giving a neat and even stitch
result. Overall I think I am getting a better finish by using this method and although I don’t enjoy seaming, feel
it’s a worthwhile modification.
*When you say “keep the selvage stitch at each end in stockinette” does that mean knit the first and last stitch on
the Right side row and purl the first and last on the wrong side row? Thanks!
*I’m currently knitting Brooklyn Tweed Bellows and the selvedges are garter stitch and have found it fairly
difficult to seam and pick up stiches along this edge. In other BT patterns, the selvedges are garter or twisted
garter stitch. Do you find that there is a difference in structure of the seams/sweater between the different types
of selvedges?
*I’m with you 100% on this, for all the reasons you give. I got frustrated with magic loop halfway down a sleeve
once, switched to knotting back and forth and the difference in quality and gauge (even after blocking) was
amazing.
*I always knit my sleeves flat. It just makes a better sleeve, IMO, and it is faster and more pleasant, especially if
you are knitting stripes. At the beginning awkward stage, I just use two needles, changing from one to the other
until the sleeve flattens out. Also, if you mark your decreases with a running thread on each side, it makes the
seaming even more of a breeze.
*Karen, I often choose to knit sleeves flat, mostly to avoid switching to dpns. However, if the sleeve is loose-
fitting and wide enough, I use a short circular needle. Since I don’t have to change from one needle to the next
(as I would if using dpns or magic loop or two circular needles), or purl, the work flies. I finish a sleeve in a
couple of hours, without spinning the sweater in my lap. I put the sweater body in my lap, knit around the sleeve
as far as possible, until it is twisted against the body. Then I untwist the sleeve and knit the rest of the round. No
need to move the sweater. The process is similar to an owl twisting its head to look around over one shoulder,
then back around to look over the other shoulder. Of course, this method doesn’t give the structure a seam does,
but it eliminates spinning sweaters.
*Elizabeth Zimmerman was a big believer in seams for structure so you are in excellent company. In fact, when
she knit sweaters in the round, she went back afterward and added faux “seams” down the sides.
OK, so one of my big beefs with top down sweaters is that gauge can really change in the round vs. back and
forth, depending on how your tension changes (or not) with purling. So when I knit a cardigan top-down, the
main part is always back and forth with the sleeve in the round. I just finished a sweater for my daughter like this
and I had to redo the sleeves because they were too tight! I think from now on whenever I knit a top-down
cardigan, I’ll do the sleeves flat so I don’t have this issue. If I knit a topdown pullover, I’ll have to think about it. I
totally agree that knitting sleeves on Doble Pointed Needless with the weight of the sweater is really annoying!
*I’ve always felt that knitting a sweater completely seamless and in the round isn’t the best use for many yarns.
Seams provide structure. Just as we would turn into shapeless puddles without our skeletons, a sweater with no
seams can become a shapeless mass over time if the yarn is lacking in body or elasticity. I’ve seen it happen with
me own eyes. So I salute you for pointing this out to your readers and creating a pattern with stabilizing seams.
To the seamless whiners, seaming has been a part of knitting for centuries so put on your big kid panties and
learn about it.
*While I won’t quibble with the right of every knitter to knit how they like best, I still prefer to knit sleeves in the
round, ALWAYS. Why?
1. It makes last-minute fit adjustments so much simpler. Example: when I knit the Modern Gansey for my son,
after wet blocking, the sleeves were just a teeny bit too long. Since there was no seam to undo, the unravelling
and re-knitting of the cuff was no problem.
2. I learned to knit on dpns as a child, and it’s second nature to me.
3. Recently, in my Wolfe Island Gansey, I used the magic loop for the sleeves (even though I don’t think I’ll ever
use it for socks), and that worked amazingly well–no dpns to fall into sofa cushions.
4. Granted, there’s a short space of knitting at the top of a sleeve when you have to manipulate the entire sweater
around (pinning cardigan fronts together helps, as does poking a finished sleeve inside the garment while you
work the second sleeve), but before very long it becomes possible to work around the entire sleeve with the
remainder of the garment sitting in your lap. Just remember to turn the sleeve back to the underarm for the start
of the next round instead of keeping on going around in a circle.
5. No sewing time at the end. Just wet block and wear!
*I am coming into the discussion late so I am not sure if this is still a life threat, but I thought I would try: do you
go down a quarter or half needles size to knit the sleeves in the flat instead of the round? I knitted the sweater in
the round with a 3.75 mm needle and I am pretty sure my flat knitting is slightly looser (due to the purl rows). So
I am thinking of going down to 3.5 mm needles. Any thoughts?
*If you know your gauge is meaningfully different when knitting flat and in the round, you would want to do
whatever to compensate for that.
*I always knit the sleeves flat before knitting the body of the sweater. Then there is no constriction.
*Question: I’m about to start my first bottom-up sweater (the BT Spearheads) and am wondering how you would
suggest approaching knitting a bottom-up sleeve flat? I know you’re doing that for your Channel, but I’m
assuming it’s written flat.
*You’ll just need one extra stitch at each end for your selvage stitches — the two that get seamed together at the
end.
*Hi Karen – thanks for this help. I’m trying this method for the first time and I have a question. My pattern says
to decrease the sleeve every 8th round. When knitting flat, is this decrease done every 8th row or every 16th?
Thank you!
*Hi, Judy — you’ll still work the decreases exactly as specified in the pattern with regard to frequency and
placement. The only difference is you’ll just be doing them at the beginning and end of rows instead of rounds.
*The perfect solution to knitting sleeves in the round is to do them on 2 circular needles. It’s a weird technique to
learn, but once you have it, you can make any teeeny circumference in the round. I make socks on 2 circs, small
child garments on 2 circs, and so on. When you separate the sleeves and body, find the center stitch on the
armhole, and work that stitch in purl all the way down the body and down the sleeves: instant fake seem.
*Dear Karen, why does no one think to attach cuff up sleeve parts to a top down upper sleeve part ? Any
suggestion for how to join them ?! something tricky with a crochet hook perhaps ?
*Grafting with kitchener stitch seems like the right answer (?)