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I do want to talk about so-called Black Friday unofficial history. Today we're talking about the unofficial history of Christmas decorations. So do join that conversation if you've got something that is just amazing where you are or has been amazing in the past. It might even be the Christmas decorations on your own house. But if you are thinking Christmas decorations, you are probably thinking Christmas shopping, which means you probably have an eye on Black Friday, which in theory is tomorrow. Massive sale that comes from the US, but Australians are expected to spend something like $6 billion. A lot of it is online and that means be careful. Mark Jones is senior partner at Tesserent and and a cyber security expert. Mark Jones, hello. Hello. How you doing? Well, thank you. Black Friday. Just first of all, it it has come from the US that we've imported it. But it's not one day, is it? It does seem like it's sort of bleeding into an entire month. Well, it's, it's just that time of year and I think it's another excuse for a, a reason to spend money. And there's a reason why they're we're forecasting to spend, you know, 11, nearly $12 billion coming into this this side of the year. So yeah, it's, it's, it's there and it's, it's happening. Yeah. So in terms of how it actually works though, is a lot of it online and is that the issue? Yeah, that's right. So the the easiest way to get out to to customers, obviously as a retailer is through digital means, through emails and SMS. And websites and whatever it takes to kind of drive as much traffic to site rather than trying to get people into store. So yeah, online or anything kind of digitally is, is the preferred method to get things out. And what are the risks around that for, for, for, you know, the, the normal consumer, the average consumer. Ohh. Well, like I said, the, the amount of money being spent means that it's going to attract a lot of people wanting to get that money in one state, one way shape or form. So I'm putting in dodgy links, getting people to put the credit card details or, or other. Other things that they want to capture that might look legitimate but aren't legitimate. So there's just like there is every day of the year around around scams and phishing emails and all the dodgy stuff that happens on the dark side of the Internet. This is just another reason just like any holiday like Valentine's Day or Mother's Day, Father's Day, anything, there's a, there's a spike in the fraudsters way that they target, target people. So this is definitely a way to do that. So in, in terms of what you should and should and shouldn't do. That you mentioned their link. So if something comes up, you might get an e-mail. It says, you know, 50% off click here is do you click through or do you go back to the original, you know, go and do an original search. Not even a search, you just go to that original website. So the website, yeah, that's first. So the first thing is like a lot of things in life, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. So that's the first thing. Whether it's from a retailer that you know or that you don't know about the deal, it's always good to do. Research and absolutely the way to kind of get people to click bad links is to make it look like a legitimate link. And the the way to get around that is to don't click links. If it comes from a retailer that you like, as you just said, then go directly to the website. Don't click on the link to open up a new tab on your browser and go directly to that retailer retail site and follow the links into into that into their website and in terms of where the offers are, but don't click the links. Don't click links anyway. I mean, I know they're everywhere, but it's. Our trip and what we're looking at is avoid that temptation. And another bit of advice you've got is once you're in there and let's say you're ordering something online, you say also verify the shipping. Yes, absolutely. So obviously if you're a shopper like my partner, she's goes crazy with how many things she gets delivered out here. They're fraudsters know that. So they can send through things through SMS or or or e-mail saying that you've got a parcel coming and if you've got, you know, 1020 thirty things on the go. It only takes one of those things to be incorrect. So rather than buying it, it's, it's the same thing clicking your link and getting some information. Just be mindful of what you're buying, how you're tracking those things specifically, especially if you've got a lot on the go. Just be very mindful of what's what's coming into your inboxes, both on your phone and in your e-mail box. But I guess how do you verify shipping? I mean, that's it. Let's say you, let's say you are, you've purchased something and you're waiting for it to come when you get that. Text that tells you that it's on its way or it's at the post office or whatever it is. It's not always easy to tell. You know, I know with an e-mail, for example, you look at the e-mail address, you look at where it's come from, you can tell that it's not real. There might be a spelling mistake. It's a lot harder in a text. No, that's right. Absolutely. And I look The thing is to when you, when you've bought something or you've gone through the process of, of buying something that will be tracking information that's provided back through the original e-mail and ways to potentially go to where the where it's coming from and away. Track it that way and absolutely the the fraudsters know that. So again, this This is why this works and why they why they make money because they do make them look very legitimate and it sometimes is very difficult and sometimes. The way that these things are getting delivered from the trucking companies look dodgy, but they're actually legitimate. So it's always good to just go back to the original source, work out a way to track back your ability to to monitor your deliveries and, and use that way. But just be mindful of, you know, if you've got 20 things coming and you've received 20, you shouldn't be acting in 21st at message to come through. So just be kind of mindful of what's going on, especially if you've got lots on the go yeah, keep across what you're what you've ordered and what. That's where Mark, nice to talk to you. Thank you for your time. No problem. No problem. Thank you. Mark Jones, there senior partner at Tesserent, a cyber security expert.