Evan Dunn’s Post

View profile for Evan Dunn, graphic

Now: AI for marketing. Was: inbound, demand gen, SDR, pipeline creation, cold calling, SEO, paid media.

Inspired by Scott Martinis post today about signal prospecting / signal-led outbound... I see MAJOR headwinds for automated emails based off signals if those emails aren't coming from the existing stack but a new one-off system that has one two or three signals you either have to replace the entire sales engagement platform you can't just build a silo that replaces a part of it signal-led outbound founders need to think about ROUTING & ASSIGNMENT, ANALYTICS & TRACKING, and all the various RevOps concerns. Not easy. But super necessary. Imagine orchestrating automated-email-based-off-site-visitor across a team of 15 reps with plenty of demand. Are we sure this wave of tools isn't stuck in the SMB/early revenue stage? Super curious what Winson Liu, Nate Sooter, James McArthur 👋, Anastasiia Binns, Nico Druelle, James D. Bohrman, and so many others I could tag think.

Scott Martinis

Founder | B2B GTM | Scale without headcount by mapping your playbooks into an AI revenue engine

6mo

this is why i think full automation of signals is pointless the winner will create a slick flow which personalizes sequences in 2 clicks

Dee Acosta 🤖

Marketing AI / Proven Growth Driver / Trusted B2B Advisor / Operator

6mo

You have to call. HTML to HTML doesn’t work. Tell @Oliver to hit the phones.

🍉 James D. Bohrman

I create dev content that's actually good 🤓📝

6mo

Spot on. I've fallen prey to trying reactionary outreach without a full picture, and this sums up where I ended up when looking deeper into what was up. Signal-led outbound has a ton of potential.

Željko R.

Founder at CheddarList

6mo

Matt P. SEP sync/analytics done best with native platforms is a good point. Follow Evan — a brilliant guy.

I’m working in one of those more mature orgs and you’re correct: automating anything outbound based on a fuzzy signal is not even a consideration. We have battle tested and proven methods to categorize leads and then make sure we pass them through to the right funnel or folks at the right time. For smaller orgs, I’d be even more cautious of automating outreach based on signal. Leads are precious - do you really have so many that you can’t work through them with some human touch? Likely no. And I’ve worked with a smaller sales team doing intent/signal based leads and the data hasn’t been anywhere near good enough. The old data adage proves true again: garbage in, garbage out(bound)

Nico Druelle

Helping fast-growing startups architect their Revenue Stack | Founder @ The Revenue Architects | ex-Melio

6mo

I love to see Routing as a foundational pillar of a well-designed outbound strategy. Intent Signals are a fraction of the pipeline for a mature, later-stage sales organization (series B/C +)—I've seen Intent Leads up to 25% of overall pipelines, and they are some of the best. Later-stage startups with multiple pipeline sources cannot operate without an orchestration tool that handles enrichment/scoring/routing while sitting on top of the CRM and MAP schema. I think Cargo (YC S23) 🧱 is definitely best positioned to achieve this Finding good leads with Signals is mainstream these days, but orchestrating them to create a consistent customer journey across product/marketing/sales is another story.

Anastasiia Binns

Head of RevOps | HubSpot whisperer

6mo

I'm actually 100% done with fully automated outreach. In my grumpy granny era and it feels great. We've all ruined outbound with automation, so I'm back to using it in ways it was intended - quality of life improvements and mental load reduction for reps. Everything else needs a human touch to actually stand out from the noise. And agree on this being a nightmare for RevOps - this was a factor in selecting which era I'll be entering 😉

Jordan Crawford

🦃🦃🦃gobble gobble🦃🦃🦃

6mo

I think one thing I think about is, how can I make the message adapt to the challenge of the workflow… for example… we built an automation that just said, “Are you going to {{conference}}?” In this case, even if it was a customer, the only weird thing would be if we had already talked to the customer about the conference and the automation came from that same account. It’s not a great way to solve this problem, but it at least cushions things when you make mistakes. Thanks for the shout out on my tool.

Imran Patel

Founder, Syft - Inbound Maxxing

6mo

Routing is one issue underlying the fundamental problem of who is responsible for orchestration? Do these different signal-based "systems of action" orchestrate their own little workflows around the data in the "system of record"? Or is there a master orchestrator? Right now all point solutions are trying to be a source of signal + orchestrator + a system of action. There isn't a clearly defined category/standard/winner for the first two concerns yet. I also think the silo-ing is less of an issue 'right now' because signal-based motions - warm email outbound, for example - are quite new. They don't conflict with an existing "signal based" system and can respect and coordinate with the source-of-truth in CRM. At least that's what we see when we deploy our product.

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Brandon Dith-Berry

Steward of RevOps | Fractional RevOps

6mo

I can have my SDRs look up a person on LinkedIn and have a better email and phone talk track than what I've been seeing with these automated signal based emails.... It's a waste of time and you can screw it up very fast and burn the forest trying to "save your reps time". You're just removing the reps ability to build a relationship with their prospects. Also people think too small minded with signal based automation. The output almost always is email and that has the lowest conversion. We all know multi-threading with extremely relevant and personalized messaging that's hyper relational is more impactful than an email that says, "Hey Brandon, noticed your company is recently looking into [insert tool here]. We do that too! Book some time on my calendar." It's the most impersonal method of sales communication and it doesn't fit the model of how buyers go to market these days.

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