On today's podcast episode, we discuss a special edition of the unofficial list of the retailers who have made a comeback (from the dead). This month, our analysts Arielle Feger, Becky Schilling, and Sara Lebow (aka The Committee) put together a very unofficial list of the top eight retailers who have most impressively come back from the brink, and how they did it. In this month's episode, Committee members Senior Analyst Sara Lebow and Senior Director of Content Becky Schilling will defend their list against Senior Analyst Sky Canaves and Principal Analyst Sarah Marzano, who will dispute the power rankings by attempting to move retailers up, down, on, or off the list.

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Episode Transcript:

Sara Lebow (00:00):

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(00:20):

Hello, listeners. Today is Wednesday, October 30th. Welcome to Behind the Numbers Reimagining Retail, an eMarketer podcast. This is the show where we talk about how retail collides with every part of our lives. I'm your host, Sara Lebow. Today's episode is our October unofficial most interesting retailers of the month list.

(00:47):

Before we count down today's list, let's meet our guests. Joining me for today's episode, we have three of our analysts. First up, it's fellow committee member, Becky Schilling. Hey, Becky.

Becky Schilling (00:57):

Hello.

Sara Lebow (00:58):

Also with us is Sky Canaves. Hey, Sky.

Sky Canaves (01:01):

Hey, Sara.

Sara Lebow (01:02):

And rounding out this group is fellow Sarah, Sarah Marzano.

Sarah Marzano (01:07):

Hi there.

Sara Lebow (01:08):

Hello. Okay, let's jump into the unofficial most interesting retailers of the month list. Since tomorrow is Halloween, we're doing something a little different and giving our list a spooky theme. This week, we'll be counting down eight interesting retailers Becky and I have come up with that have come back from the dead, or at least come back from a difficult spot. Not all of these retailers have actually died. In fact, they're all very much alive. Becky and I will present our list in the first half of the episode. And in the second half, Sarah and Sky will have the opportunity to edit our list.

(01:45):

So here is that list. Number eight, Bed Bath & Beyond. Probably no surprise that we're starting out our list with Bed Bath & Beyond, which filed for bankruptcy back in April of this year. The brand just announced that it's partnering with Kirkland's to open several new small format stores next year, I think there are about five stores that they're opening, and it made its products available at the Container Store. So this is, I think, our most classic "I'm not dead yet" brand. Still finding ways to stay relevant.

(02:15):

Number seven, Kohl's. Kohl's has added a bunch of new brands, it expanded its holiday gift assortment, and it relaunched 2000s kids staple, Limited Too, which we've talked about on this pod before. Kohl's has also long offered Amazon returns to bring people into its stores, but that has not been super successful for Kohl's. Honestly, not a lot of these things have been huge successes for Kohl's, but they are still experimenting to try and keep people in stores.

Sarah Marzano (02:40):

I feel like the things that Kohl's has announced recently, the lower priced line from NAADAM, the expanded assortment of holiday goods, it feels like a continuation of trying a little bit of everything and hoping that something sticks. I think what I wish I could see from Kohl's is more of a cohesive, focused effort on the turnaround. I just don't necessarily feel like there's a real theme emerging. It's just continuing to try a little bit of everything.

Sky Canaves (03:08):

Right, and they've already pulled some big levers, as you mentioned, Sara, with the Amazon returns hub and the Sephora shop-in-shops. And if those aren't enough to move the needle in a significant way, then I don't think adding brands or smaller shop-in-shops in bits and pieces is going to do much. Especially, their sales have been declining. Previous quarter comps were down, and they really need to rethink the whole store in a more holistic way, as you said.

Sara Lebow (03:36):

Yeah. If I were Kohl's, I would be leaning into Kohl's Cash in some way. I feel like that's its brand identity, is Kohl's Cash, and people want rewards right now. I would find a way to revamp that program.

(03:46):

At number six, we have Lidl. Becky, what has Lidl been up to?

Becky Schilling (03:51):

Yeah, so back in 2017 when Lidl was making its US entrance, everyone in the grocery business was super excited about it. It came in with a bang, and it just fluttered. Unfortunately, it has not had the same impact that a fellow discounter and German grocer, Aldi, has had in the US. And they recognize that, and they are launching a new marketing campaign to reintroduce the brand to its US customers and try to get people to recognize the brand, come into the stores, and frequent them. So that is why we picked Aldi for number six. Oh.

Sara Lebow (04:25):

Nope, we picked Lidl for number six.

Becky Schilling (04:26):

I'm so sorry.

Sara Lebow (04:27):

But I think that's a really solid example.

Becky Schilling (04:29):

That is why we... Yeah, exactly. The brand identity. There's so much confusion there.

Sara Lebow (04:34):

No, they're both four-letter brands. They look alike. They sound alike. I think Lidl needs to do something to seem different from Aldi, and that's exactly what they're doing.

Sarah Marzano (04:45):

Well, and I think part of the problem was also that consumers didn't even recognize Lidl as a grocery store, right, and that's part of why the campaign is around literally being a supermarket. It's very much starting from scratch, which is surprising for a retailer that has been in the US for, as Becky mentioned, quite some time at this point. We're really starting from bare bones of like, "Hey, we're a grocery store, and then we'll focus maybe on differentiating ourselves from Aldi."

Sky Canaves (05:13):

Because they're so much smaller than Aldi and focused in a limited region mainly in the Northeast, so I think consumers and a lot of the rest of the country just don't even know about them. They just know about Aldi.

(05:25):

And it seems like they're also leaving some money on the table, because I saw a report from Placer.ai that noted that Lidl shoppers tend to have above average incomes relative to the locations of their stores. And for Aldi, it's the opposite. The Aldi shopper income skews lower than average, which I think is what you want to target when you're a lower-priced, value-oriented grocer.

Sara Lebow (05:49):

Yeah. I mean, Aldi is great for if you're shopping on a budget. Lidl does not have those same associations in the US right now. Okay, number five, CVS. Becky, what is CVS up to?

Becky Schilling (06:01):

Yeah, so I mean we could have picked a host of anyone from the drug and pharmacy side of the world. They're struggling mightily for the most part, but CVS is doing some really interesting things to try to push itself forward. It launched a new private label line called Well Market to try to help consumers with some of the brand confusion that people can see whenever they're shopping within CVS stores. They also launched a self-service retail media ad partnership with The Trade Desk to try to elevate their retail media program and to try to get some more advertisers in through the door that way.

Sara Lebow (06:39):

Could you see CVS buying a Capsule or a Hims or one of those D2C pharmacies that I feel like everyone is using now?

Sky Canaves (06:48):

That would be really interesting because there is a lot more of the pharmacy side of these stores is moving online and moving to other channels as well, like supermarkets. And wholesale stores like Costco are doing really well in pharmacy, and so they really have to rethink what they're for because right now for me, there's a zombie CVS in my neighborhood and it's across the street from the still-standing Walgreens, which I hope doesn't close because I go there if I need something right away that's a few minutes away or downstairs. But too often, if they're closing their stores or leaving the products that are left in their stores behind glass cases and locking them up, then it defeats the whole purpose of convenience that consumers are willing to pay a little bit more for.

Becky Schilling (07:34):

I couldn't get a yogurt yesterday from the Duane Reade. A little self-serve yogurt, I had to get somebody to come and open the case for me.

Sara Lebow (07:42):

CVS even has, with its super long receipts, mummy-like effects.

Speaker X (07:51):

Spooky.

Sky Canaves (07:52):

I saw a Halloween costume of that once, a CVS receipt, and it's still stuck in my head. It was brilliant.

Sarah Marzano (07:58):

I love that.

Sara Lebow (07:59):

Yeah, that's a really good costume. And honestly, a CVS mummy would be easy to do. You only need two CVS trips to get enough receipt for it.

Sarah Marzano (08:07):

You just have to be able to buy enough stuff, which is tough with everything being locked up.

Sara Lebow (08:11):

True. Okay, number four, Abercrombie & Fitch. This is another 2000s kid staple, maybe young adult staple. Abercrombie & Fitch is a brand that became I don't want to say irrelevant, but definitely got a bad association with it toward the late 2000s, early 2010s. As we all know, Abercrombie & Fitch has completely revamped with way more inclusive marketing and has made its styles much more updated as well so it's not lingering in the 2000s.

Sarah Marzano (08:43):

I think Abercrombie has been such a fun celebrated brand comeback story. There are a lot of marketing case studies around their turnaround and their comeback, and one of my favorite things is them putting Fran Horowitz, who was a merchant, in the CEO role back in 2017 because I think a lot of the strategic levers you can pull as a retailer looking to juice your business or execute a turnaround will mean nothing without a great product strategy and assortment. So I think you can see a lot of the proof of her strength as a merchant playing out within their strategy.

Sky Canaves (09:21):

Right, because they're no longer a teen brand. They're now a younger millennial brand, and they provide clothing that serves that demographic, including office wear. They've done really well with their dressy wear for weddings. They have a whole section on that. And then in addition to the elevated basics like jeans and hoodies, but the teens can go to one of their lower-price lines.

Sarah Marzano (09:43):

And I think another thing that's interesting to me about Abercrombie is I feel like it's part of a group of mall brands who are growing up and making a comeback and sky, to your point, serving that grown-up millennial customer who maybe used to shop there when they were younger. And it's exciting to see this turnaround for some of these mall brands, which I think stands in stark contrast to department stores, right?

Sara Lebow (09:43):

Mm-hmm.

Sky Canaves (10:06):

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Marzano (10:06):

Who have been struggling and looking at a really bleak outlook for some time and can't really blame the decline of mall traffic anymore because we're seeing a big uptick in foot traffic to malls.

Sara Lebow (10:17):

Yeah, Abercrombie has really grown up with its clientele. I think that that mall conversation is a good segue into our next brand. Number three, Victoria's Secret. This is almost just like Abercrombie. I mean, this is a brand that was known for exclusivity, not inclusivity. And as a result, its iconic fashion show went away for many years because it was associated with exclusivity. It just brought its fashion show back this year with slightly more body inclusive approach than it has in the past and even had iconic model Tyra Banks once again walking in that fashion show, so it also brought in the nostalgia aspect. And it's just expanded its image.

Sarah Marzano (11:01):

Yeah, I think this one is similar to Abercrombie in terms of what it's trying to come back from, but I think the efforts that they've made and how far they've come actually stand in stark contrast to what Abercrombie has been able to do. So to your point, they canceled their fashion show, I think it was six years ago, and that was in the wake of the Me Too movement. But then they fumbled that subsequent rebrand where they said, "Hey, we're going to get back up from this. We're going to become super inclusive." And now, it feels like they're saying, "Okay, let's reverse course and try to have everything we had before, but also do it in an inclusive way." And I was just thinking, I feel like this is... I don't know if there's an industry term for this, but it feels like the greenwashing version-

Sara Lebow (11:47):

Wokewashing.

Sarah Marzano (11:48):

... of inclusivity, yeah, where it feels really tone-deaf. It's ringing hollow. It feels like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. And I just don't think the fashion show accomplished what they were hoping it was going to accomplish.

Sara Lebow (12:02):

Yeah. I think that a lot of the fashion show efforts hinged on plus-size supermodel, Ashley Graham, who has been critical of the brand before being like, "I now see myself in the brand and am walking in the show." I think that hanging your brand on one person, one plus-size model now being accepting of the brand, might not win consumers back the way that they might hope.

Sky Canaves (12:26):

And it makes me wonder, who are the consumers that they're targeting? Are they looking for the younger demographic? I mean, I was pleased to see that there was a bit more diversity and spanning not just body size, but ethnicity and trans models as well. But I think most of the diversity I saw was the age diversity, and that's because they brought back the supermodels from back in the day. And so are they trying to appeal to the Gen X demographic instead, who was their customer back in the 2000s?

Sara Lebow (12:56):

Yeah, I'm actually not convinced that Victoria's Secret has been or will be successful with size diversity at all.

Sarah Marzano (13:03):

I feel like this is another retailer who it doesn't... There's a reason we're all confused in terms of who they're trying to appeal to, right, because there's not a very clear, cohesive strategy that's coming through some of their moves. We've talked about this on the podcast before, but I think it will be interesting to see what Hillary Super, who is the new CEO that they just brought in recently from Fenty, is able to execute here. But yeah, this is a brand who has lost a lot of market share to brands like SKIMS, brands like Fenty, and I don't think the fashion show is what it's going to be to bring this back into the favor of today's consumer.

Sara Lebow (13:38):

Okay. Number two, Gap. Becky, tell us what is going on with Gap.

Becky Schilling (13:44):

Yeah, I mean, Gap has had a little bit of an identity crisis too, right? So they are trying to become more culturally relevant. They hired Zac Posen earlier this year. He's a big name with a lot of interest. He has a lot of cachet, too, in the industry, so they're hoping that they can get more people in the door to come back into their stores, to buy their products, to wear their products. They're also being really smart about their marketing. They're still using their marketing dollars in a big way, but they're being more efficient about how they're doing that. And they're focusing on brand storytelling across platforms, and we're seeing some signs in their recent financial reports that it seems to be working.

Sky Canaves (14:23):

Yeah, I'm excited about Gap. I think they're doing a great job with the buzzy brand collaborations that are so much better than the collaboration with Ye because they now have brand partners that really resonate with the shoppers who want to spend on designer, but maybe in a more affordable way, I'm thinking of Cult Gaia and DÔEN. And so these are still priced, I think, a bit more premium than regular Gap or more than consumers have been conditioned to expect, because Gap for a long time offered so many coupons and promos that shoppers then ended up not being willing to pay full price. They're expecting 40% off. But when there's a really well-designed and thought-out product or collection and it's limited in quantity, then it becomes more desirable and that's what fashion should be all about. And they are elevating their image.

(15:14):

And the latest one that I saw is they collaborated with an influencer who came up with the TikTok phrase about hoodies that hoodie, looking for the perfect hoodie, and that's really savvy because they're now leveraging that interest and that collaboration with a creator, whereas I think a few years ago when Gap hoodies started to come back and gain traction with Gen Z, they dropped the ball on that trend. And now, they're able to bring it back. So I think they're winning on this one.

Becky Schilling (15:41):

Yeah, I'm excited about Gap too. I think it's no small task to think about turning around all four banners that operate under the Gap, Inc. label. And I think Sky, you're absolutely right that one of the key elements here is going to be crawling out of this never-ending discounting race to the bottom that has really eroded a lot of the brand equity across the banners and creating some scarcity, creating some elevation with some of these collaborations and really focusing on infusing the brand with a bit more value in the eyes of the consumer are going to be a key part of that.

Sara Lebow (16:14):

All right, number one, Amazon Fresh. Becky, bring us home with Amazon Fresh's revamp.

Becky Schilling (16:21):

Yeah, I mean Amazon makes this list almost every single month. So maybe at first glance seems a little confusing to have Amazon in a retailers that are making a comeback, but Amazon has struggled mightily with the Amazon Fresh brands, and they're doing a lot of things to try to make a comeback. They were very honest that they were not getting it right, and so they're trying new things and they're testing new things. They're building a new micro fulfillment center next to a Whole Foods that would enable shoppers to order from Amazon's website, Amazon Fresh, and then pick it up in store. They're testing a new small format store next to a Whole Foods in Chicago that's going to offer a wider variety of products, including some of the brand name products that don't make it into a Whole Foods due to that brand's ingredient restrictions. They've overhauled 26 Amazon Fresh fulfillment centers. They're launching other small formats. They're just trying a lot of things to try to see what can work with an Amazon Fresh product.

Sarah Marzano (17:19):

When I was reading about this new... The idea that folks are going to Whole Foods, but then they're also conducting the remainder of their... they're topping off their grocery shopping elsewhere in order to get some of those national brands or things that don't fit into the Whole Foods assortment makes sense, but I think from a purely logistical standpoint, the friction of still having to go to another grocery store is still there. You still have to check out twice and do something with all of your bags. And I live in a city, so I'm not using a car to do these things. So that stood out to me.

(17:47):

And I think Amazon is being transparent about the fact that they are testing and learning within the grocery space, but while they are doing all of this testing and learning, their competitors are solidifying their market share within this category and creating a lot of stickiness. I look to Walmart's paid membership program, where they've seen a significant increase in the share of consumers who are paying for that program. So I don't think Amazon has all the time in the world to keep testing and learning and iterating here.

Sara Lebow (18:17):

Okay, so rounding out our list, we have number eight, Bed Bath & Beyond; number seven, Kohl's; number six, Lidl; number five, CVS; number four, Abercrombie & Fitch; number three, Victoria's Secret; number two, Gap; and number one, Amazon Fresh. We also included an honorable mention for nine and 10. At nine we have JCPenney, which has been making a lot of moves similar to Kohl's. And at 10, we have Barnes & Noble for revamping its bookstores. Now, it's time for our second half, where Sky and Sarah have the opportunity to tell us where we went wrong. Each of them will have a chance to move a company up or down our rankings list and to add a new one entirely. So Sky, why don't you go first and make a move up or down?

Sky Canaves (19:07):

Okay, I would take Bed Bath & Beyond just off the list. I don't think they're coming back from the beyond. Their strategy since they went out of business and got bought out by Overstock has been really muddled with name changes and plan changes. And the fact is there's too much competition from Amazon. So much of the sales in their category have shifted online, and particularly to Amazon.

(19:37):

So when I look at our forecast for Amazon's share of the home furnishings category, and this is for a total US retail, not just e-commerce for the category, but total, it was less than 9% in 2019. And according to our forecast, it's going to be closer to a quarter of the total by 2026. And that's because there's so many more brands selling on Amazon. It's easy. It's convenient. And then they have big sales events like Prime Days now twice a year where you can really save even more on these items. So you don't need those 20% off coupons from Bed Bath & Beyond anymore.

Sara Lebow (20:13):

Hmm. So you think it's Bed Bath & the Beyond?

Sky Canaves (20:16):

Yes.

Sara Lebow (20:17):

Bed Bath going to beyond.

Sarah Marzano (20:18):

Just a little of a death rattle.

Sara Lebow (20:21):

I mean, we put Bed Bath & Beyond at eight for a reason. I feel like it's like the zombie retailer, but it-

Sarah Marzano (20:29):

It won't go away.

Sara Lebow (20:30):

Yeah. It is toward the bottom.

Becky Schilling (20:33):

I don't think we think there's going to be successful with what they're doing. I don't know that anybody is willing to stick their neck out and buy that, but I do think what they're trying to do is something new and something interesting. And so I think for that reason, that's why we included them on the list.

Sara Lebow (20:50):

I think that we should keep them at eight, but understand that they might fall off if we're convinced a new brand should come onto the list. Becky, do you agree with that?

Becky Schilling (21:00):

I agree with that.

Sara Lebow (21:01):

All right. Sarah, make your move.

Sarah Marzano (21:04):

I want to bump Amazon Fresh from its number one spot. I think we can swap them in somewhere around number four or five. I just think this is too small to constitute a comeback. Like I said when we were discussing the retailer, this is another small test and learn effort. I just take issue that we can say Amazon Fresh is back from the dead.

Sara Lebow (21:27):

Becky, you were the one who made the argument for Amazon Fresh being number one when we made this list. What was your justification there?

Becky Schilling (21:34):

Twofold. One, I think Amazon, there's such a dichotomy with Amazon. They're so successful, so, so successful, and they cannot get their brick and mortar strategy correct. And so I think it was very interesting that they came out and said that and they were very transparent and said, "Listen, it's not working. We get it. We're going to stop. We're going to halt and we're going to try some things." And I think for a brand to acknowledge it and then to actually come back and try some things, the tactics that they're using are very different from what they had before, and they are trying some new small formats. They're trying to get new customers in there. They're trying to take advantage of the things that work well for Amazon, and they're trying to pull all of those threads together to build something that would be successful. Whether or not that actually comes to fruition, I think it's all very much up to debate and maybe on the not going to work side, but I do think that what they're doing is very interesting.

Sarah Marzano (22:34):

I think they get points for humility there, but if you put them right, if you had Amazon Fresh at number one and then you have Gap, which has, I think it's been... There's been several quarters of positive comp sales over at Gap. I just can't justify that order.

Sky Canaves (22:48):

Yeah, I think grocery is top importance for Amazon in its retail ambitions and the Amazon Fresh moves certainly play a part in that, but I don't think they've yielded their results quite yet and we're still waiting to see how they figure out their bigger strategy with all three parts in integrating online and stores.

Sara Lebow (23:08):

So I'm really convinced of Gap, Victoria's Secret, and Abercrombie & Fitch all being interesting, so moving Amazon Fresh behind those doesn't seem like that big a demotion to me since those are all so interesting to me. I would be open to moving it to number four.

Becky Schilling (23:24):

I would be open to swapping Amazon and Gap, but I would not put Amazon Fresh below Victoria's Secret.

Sara Lebow (23:30):

All right, we'll compromise. We'll put Amazon Fresh at number two and Gap at number one. Okay, now is your opportunity to add a wild card to this list and see if we can actually knock some folks off of the list.

Speaker 6 (23:42):

Yeah.

Sara Lebow (23:42):

Sarah, why don't you go first with your Wild card and where you would put it?

Sarah Marzano (23:46):

Sure. So my wild card is adidas. It has been about two years since they shut down their Yeezy business, which was a massive hit. I was reading that at the time, it was about 8% of the company's revenue. They are still working to offload the Yeezy inventory, and it's worth noting that I think the sales that they're generating from that inventory is still something that's impacting their top line sales. But they're divesting themselves of that business, and then they also shut down their business in Russia following that country's invasion of Ukraine, which is their biggest, I mean I'm taking this very global, but it was their biggest D2C market, which that was interesting. They have a new CEO who came in 2023 who came from Puma, and I think they are starting to see some of the payoffs of their strategic turnaround.

(24:38):

They've scaled up production of the Samba. They acted really quickly on that. They are really focusing on the strength of their wholesale business, which flies in the face of the strategic shift to D2C that so many brands were focusing on over the past few years. They're leaning back into sport and performance, and I think they have a real opportunity in North America to seize on some of the white space that may be created with Nike's current struggles. So I think this is a brand and retailer where we're seeing really significant payoff from their turnaround efforts.

Sara Lebow (25:08):

It's funny that adidas' CEO came from Puma. You know that adidas and Puma were founded by brothers?

Sky Canaves (25:13):

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Marzano (25:13):

Yeah.

Becky Schilling (25:14):

I love that some of the strategies that we're saying here is the shutdown strategy which, I think to be fair, a lot of brands struggle with and they hold on to the things that aren't working because we did this and we invested in it, so we're going to stay with it. And I think it's really smart to say, "Listen, this is not working for us. We're going to back out of this."

Sarah Marzano (25:32):

Yeah.

Sara Lebow (25:33):

Yeah, it's interesting that they're moving to wholesale also. That's interesting because we talk about that a lot with Nike. But then the other thing is, it's interesting that we have two brands potentially on this list that are on it in part because they had to back out of a Kanye West partnership.

Sarah Marzano (25:50):

I know. I was thinking about that, too, with Gap.

Sara Lebow (25:52):

Where did you say you would put adidas?

Sarah Marzano (25:54):

Oh sorry, I don't think I did. I want to put them ahead of Victoria's Secret.

Sara Lebow (25:58):

Oh, wow. That's up there.

Sarah Marzano (26:00):

Yeah. I know, but I feel like this is another one that I feel really strongly about like Gap, because you're actually seeing some of these strategic... The efforts make sense. They feel like they are cohesive and focused, and we're starting to see them really pay off.

(26:16):

And particularly, I thought the wholesale strategy was interesting. I was reading that they are prioritizing bringing their new product launches to their retail partners at the same time that they're bringing it to D2C and just really leaning into the strength of those partnerships and recognizing what that does for their distribution, what that does for how they show up to the customer. And again, I think Victoria's Secret, it just remains to be seen whether some of what they're trying is going to prove successful in terms of turnaround.

Sky Canaves (26:43):

Yeah, I think their results speak for themselves, and they've also captured a lot of the buzz from Nike. I know among Gen Z in the back-to-school halls, everyone had adidas shoes that they were showing off, and very few Nikes were in there this year. So they've definitely captured the buzz and have the Gen Z fandom behind them now.

Sara Lebow (27:04):

Adidas hasn't really been on my radar, which could speak to me, but also the Olympics happened. I'm engaged in watching football and baseball right now and women's basketball, and I haven't really seen that much adidas.

Sarah Marzano (27:18):

One of the things that they discussed in terms of their strategic turnaround is the fact that the CEO, whose name is Bjørn Gulden, was focused on strengthening their relationship with athletes. He felt like they had really lost their way as a sport and performance brand and had over-indexed on the lifestyle category. So I think it makes sense that you're observing this and saying this, and it is something that they are working to change. I'm not sure that American football will be where that happens.

Sara Lebow (27:46):

That makes sense. I'm convinced. You've convinced me.

Sarah Marzano (27:50):

Whoo.

Becky Schilling (27:51):

I'm convinced to add it to the list. I think that all the moves that they're doing are really smart, and I think that sometimes there's a difference between smart and interesting. And I think for me, that would be the sticking point that I would say that I would add them to the list. But I think their moves are really smart business moves, but they're not necessarily the interesting business moves.

Sara Lebow (28:12):

So why don't we stick them below Abercrombie & Fitch at number five?

Becky Schilling (28:17):

I agree with that.

Sara Lebow (28:18):

All right.

Sarah Marzano (28:18):

Works for me.

Sara Lebow (28:19):

Sky, what is your wild card and where would you put it?

Becky Schilling (28:22):

So my wild card is another retailer that has been out of business and coming back really from not being in business, and that's Toys "R" Us, which originally went bankrupt in 2018 and then started to come back a few years ago through a partnership with Macy's from its current owner, which is a brand management firm. And it's been operating pop-ups in Macy's stores across the country. I think they're now in every Macy's store as a shop within Macy's toy department.

(28:55):

And the news this past week was that they just opened their first standalone store in Chicago with events and big store opening and giveaways. And I think that can help start to fill a gap in this market because so much of the toy business has moved away from specialty stores to big box and then online, of course, to Amazon. But when you say toys, you think of stores. The two go hand in hand. There's a gap in the market because we've lost part of that. And I think some of the other brands and retailers, like LEGO and CAMP, which is much smaller, have been successful in the toy space, and a big part of that comes from experiences. So I think a lot of it will depend on how well they can leverage experiences and really well-curated selections to get consumers in the door and bring the toy store back.

Sara Lebow (29:51):

I'm not as convinced of this one. I think if Bed Bath & Beyond has fallen off our list, then Toys are us isn't really interesting either. They are two peas in a pod for going out of business and attempting to re-enter the playing field.

(30:08):

Macy's was actually a brand that we were talking about maybe putting on the list, and we knocked it off just because we thought they were scrambling and not necessarily doing enough that's interesting. And so I don't know that this Toys "R" Us partnership is all that interesting. I mean, Macy's sells stuff. It makes sense that they would add some more products. I think that these smaller players like CAMP and LEGO are still doing more interesting things in this space than Toys "R" Us is.

Becky Schilling (30:37):

Yeah, I mean we talked about Toys "R" Us, whether or not we wanted to add it to the list, and I think that it goes back to the... I think they are definitely making a comeback and they're doing it in a smart and strategic way, but I think the other brands and the retailers that we have on here are doing things that are a little bit more interesting. And so I would not include them on the list.

Sara Lebow (30:57):

Okay, so that concludes our list. Our final list with those moves is number eight, Kohl's; number seven, Lidl; number six, CVS; number five, adidas; number four, Abercrombie & Fitch; number three, Victoria's Secret; number two, Amazon Fresh; and number one, Gap. In that honorable mention spot, we have Bed Bath & Beyond and JCPenney.

Sky Canaves (31:23):

Oh, I would've definitely put Barnes & Noble up and taken Bed Bath & Beyond off off, just off.

Sarah Marzano (31:30):

If we had more moves, that's what I was thinking, too, Sky.

Sky Canaves (31:33):

Yeah, because Barnes & Noble is... They're what I think of as a potential opportunity for a store like Toys "R" Us, where they were left for dead and then they've come back.

Sarah Marzano (31:45):

I know. I'm [inaudible 00:31:45].

Sky Canaves (31:45):

Thanks to the experience. We need more moves.

Becky Schilling (31:48):

I like that move too. Can I have a move?

Sara Lebow (31:48):

Yeah.

Becky Schilling (31:51):

I know I made the list, but can I have a move?

Sara Lebow (31:54):

Take a move, Becky.

Becky Schilling (31:56):

I want to put Barnes & Noble back on. I do.

Sara Lebow (31:59):

Where are you putting it?

Becky Schilling (32:00):

We can put it in the... I want nine.

Sara Lebow (32:03):

Nine. All right, so we're adding Barnes & Noble into our honorable mention section. I think that's fair.

Sarah Marzano (32:09):

I co-sign this.

Sky Canaves (32:10):

Yeah.

Sara Lebow (32:10):

Okay. Well, that is all we have time for today, so thank you each for joining me. Thank you, Becky.

Becky Schilling (32:17):

Thanks for having me.

Sara Lebow (32:18):

Thank you, Sarah.

Sarah Marzano (32:20):

Thanks for having me.

Sara Lebow (32:21):

And thank you, Sky.

Sky Canaves (32:22):

Thanks. Always a pleasure.

Sara Lebow (32:24):

Thank you to Victoria, who edits the podcast and keeps things from getting too scary around here. Please give us a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back next Wednesday with another episode of Reimagining in Detail, an eMarketer podcast made possible by TikTok. And tomorrow, join Marcus for another episode of Behind the Numbers Daily.

(32:53):

On November 1st, eMarketer is hosting a virtual summit. Learn all about the top trends of 2025 with a keynote from analysts Sarah Marzano and Evelyn Mitchell-Wolf, panelists hosted by Kelsey Voss and Yory Wurmser, and featuring executives from top brands. All of this starts at 11:30 Eastern on November 1st and is hosted by eMarketer's Vice President of Content Suzy Davidkhanian and Senior Director of Client Briefings Jeremy Goldman. Use the link in the show notes to register today.